<?xml version="1.0" encoding="windows-1256" ?>
<rss version="2.0">
<channel>
	<title>Islamic Forums - run by members</title>
	<description><![CDATA[Islam: the moderate religion, Islamic Book Reviews & Audio Lectures, Islam & Science and From the Fountains of Knowledge]]></description>
	<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php</link>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 01:05:21 -0500</pubDate>
	<ttl>60</ttl>
	<image>
		<title>Islamic Forums - run by members</title>
		<url></url>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php</link>
	</image>
	<item>
		<title><![CDATA[Does The Qur'an Plagiarise Ancient Greek Embryology?]]></title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=733288</link>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting Paper I came across, hope everyone reads it or at least attempts to, despite it's daunting length. The areas in italics are tables which couldn't be copied here properly. I advise everyone to read this from the actual site, it can be found here; <a href="http://www.quranicstudies.com/articles/medical-miracles/does-the-quran-plagiarise-ancient-greek-embryology.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Embryology Qur'an</a><br /><br /><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This paper addressed the accusation that the embryological development described in the Qur'an, has been plagiarised from the writings of ancient Greek physicians, such as Galen.<br /> <br />We reviewed the main embryological ideas found in the writings of the ancient Indians, Hippocrates, Aristotle, Galen, and Jewish scriptures, and compared these to the embryological development stated in the verses of the Qur'an.<br /><br />It was found that there was no similarity between these ancient writings and text of the Qur'an. The Qur'anic ideas on embryology were completely different in terms of style, content and accuracy.<br />Hence, the charge that the Prophet and Messenger Muhammad (Salla Allah Ta'alah 'Alaihi Wa Salam) plagiarised the writings of the ancients was shown to be an utterly false and baseless accusation.<br /> <br /><b>Introduction</b><br /><br />This paper will examine the claim that the embryological development described in the Qur'an has been plagiarised from the writings of ancient Greek physicians, such as Galen. Hence, we will review what was known about embryology by the ancient Indians, Hippocrates, Aristotle, Galen, as well as the embryology found in Jewish scriptures. Then we will outline all the verses in the Qur'an, and some Hadith literature, regarding embryology and human development. In doing so it should be very obvious if there are any similarities or indeed outright plagiarism of Greek ideas which were prevalent at the time.<br /><br />It should be emphasised that translators of the Qur'an usually translate according to their own understanding of the Arabic and choose words which they think best convey the meaning. Therefore, it is all the more important to refer back to classic Arabic dictionaries such as Lisan AI-'Arab, Taj AI-'Aroos Min jawahir AI-Qamoos, and Al-Qamoos Al-Muhit. This approach will enable us to eliminate any criticism of the Arabic translations and help us to understand in what sense the word was originally used. Another interesting aspect of Arabic is that it is a material language, in the sense that words are based and derived from everyday material things, which are easy to identify. So the Qur'anic descriptions of embryology use a simple yet comprehensive language.<br /> <br /><b>1. Indian Antiquity</b><br /><br />Ancient Indian ideas about embryology are to found in the Bhagavad Gita (2 BC) which describes structures such as the amniotic membrane. And the Susruta-samhita (2-3 AD), which says that the embryo is formed of a mixture of semen and blood (this idea was also held by the Greeks, as we shall see later), both of which originate from chyle (digested fats). The differentiation into the various parts of the body, arms and head occurs in the third month. In the fourth there follows the distinct development of thorax, abdomen and heart. Hair, nails, sinews and veins develop in the sixth month; and in the seventh month the embryo develops other things that may be necessary for it. In the eighth month a drawing of the vital force (ojas) to and from mother and embryo, which explains why the foetus is not yet viable. The hard parts body are derived from the father, the soft from the mother. Nourishment is carried on through vessels, which lead chyle from the mother<br /><br />The factors required for the production of the foetus were thought to be<br /><br />    * the father's semen<br />    * the mother's blood (sonita) or more specifically menstrual blood (artava)<br />    * the atman, or subtle body (consisting of fire, earth, air and water in the proper proportions)<br />    * the manas or mind, united to a particular embryo by reason of its karma.<br /><br />The idea of the blood being menstrual blood is interesting as it closely resembles Aristotelian doctrine. The clotting of milk into cheese analogy used by Aristotle for the formation of the embryo occurs also in Indian embryology. The Susruta-samhita compares the creamy layers (santanika) formed in milk, to semen and blood, which through chemical changes caused by heat, produce seven different layers of skin (kala). This concept occurs again in a Sutra on embryology written in Sanskrit, "Development, 0 Ananda," Buddha is made to say, "is comparable to a vessel of milk, like as this ferments and forms a kind of kefir or cheese." (A history of Embryology, J. Needham pp 25-27, Cambridge, 2nd edition 1959).<br /> <br /><b>2. Hippocratic Embryology</b><br /><br />Hippocrates (460 - 377 BC) was a Greek physician and founder of the Hippocratic school of medicine. The Hippocratic collection of some 60 or so medical works is ascribed to various authors and was probably not written by Hippocrates. The embryological knowledge of Hippocrates is set out in three books, the treatise on Regimen, the work on The Seed the book on The Nature of the Child (Hippocratic Writings, Penguin Classics, 1983).<br /><br />In the treatise on Regimen section 9 discusses the formation of the embryo. The description is based on the fundamental physiological idea at the time, that is the two main constituents of all natural bodies are fire and water. Both of these in turn consist of heat, dryness and moisture in differing proportions.<br /><br />"Whatever may be the sex which chance gives to the embryo, it is set in motion, being humid, by fire, and thus it extracts its nourishment from the food and breath introduced into the mother. First of all this attraction is the same throughout because the body is porous but by the motion and the fire it dries up and solidifies as it solidifies, a dense outer crust is formed, and then the fire inside cannot any more draw in sufficient nourishment and does not expel the air because of the density of the surrounding surface. It therefore consumes the interior humidity. In this way parts naturally solid being up to a point hard and dry are not consumed to feed the fire but fortify and condense themselves the more the humidity disappears-these are called bones and nerves. The fire burns up the mixed humidity and forwards development towards the natural disposition of the body in this manner; through the solid and dry parts it cannot make permanent channels but it can do so through the soft wet parts, for these are all nourishment to it. There is also in these parts a certain dryness, which the fire does not consume, and they become compacted one to another. Therefore the most interior fire, being closed round on all sides, becomes the most abundant and makes the most canals for itself (for that was the wettest part) and this is called the belly. Issuing out from thence, and finding no nourishment outside, it makes the air pipes and those for conducting and distributing food. As for the enclosed fire, it makes three circulations in the body and what were the most humid parts become the venae cavae. In the intermediate part the remainder of the water contracts and hardens forming the flesh."<br /><br />Further in section 26 of the same treatise;<br /><br />"Everything in the embryo is formed simultaneously. All the limbs separate themselves at the same time and so grow, none comes before or after other, but those, which are naturally bigger appear before the smaller, without being formed earlier. Not all embryos form themselves in an equal time but some earlier and some later according to whether they meet with fire and food, some have everything visible in 40 days, others in 2 months, 3, or 4. They also become visible at variable times and show themselves to the light having the blend (of fire and water) which they always will have."<br /><br />In the treatise on The Seed sections 5-7.<br /><br />"When a woman has intercourse, if she is not going to conceive, then it is her practice to expel the sperm produced by both partners whenever she wishes to do so. If however she is going to conceive, the sperm is not expelled, but retained by the womb. For when the womb has received the sperm closes up and retains it, because the moisture causes the womb orifice to contract. Then both what is provided by the man and what is provided by the woman is mixed together. if the woman is experienced in matters of childbirth, and takes when the sperm is retained, she will know the precise day, which she has conceived.<br /><br />Now here is a further point. What the woman emits is sometimes stronger, and sometimes weaker; and this applies also to what the man emits. In fact both partners alike contain both male and female sperm (the male being stronger than the female must of course originate from a stronger sperm Here is a further point: if (a) both partners produce a strong sperm, then a male is the result, whereas if (b) they produce a weak form, then a female is the result. But if &copy; one part produces one kind of sperm, and the other another, then the resultant sex is determined by whichever sperm prevails in quantity.<br /><br />For suppose that the weaker sperm is much greater in quantity than the stronger sperm then the stronger is overwhelmed and, being mixed with the weak results in a female. If on the contrary the strong sperm is greater in quantity than the weak, and the weak is overwhelmed then it results in a male."<br /><br />In Section 8 sperm is said to come from the whole body of each parent, weak coming from the weak parts, and strong from the strong parts.<br /><br />In the treatise on The Nature of the Child (section 14, p.326) it is stated that the embryo is nourished by maternal blood, which flows to the foetus and coagulates, forming the embryonic flesh. Section 15 describes the umbilical as the means by which foetal respiration is carried on.<br /><br />Section 17 describes the development of the embryo.<br /><br />As the flesh grows it is formed into distinct members by breath. Each thing in it goes to its similar - the dense to dense, the rare to the rare, and the fluid to the fluid. Each settles in its appropriate place, corresponding to the part from which it came and to which it is akin. I mean that those parts which came from a dense part in the parent body are themselves dense, while those from a fluid part are fluid, and with all the other parts: they all obey the same formula in the process of growth. The bones grow hard as a result of coagulating action of heat; moreover they send out branches like a tree. Both the internal and external parts of the body now become more distinctly articulated. The head begins to project from the shoulders, and the upper and lower arms from the sides. The legs separate from each other, and the sinews spring up around the joints. The mouth opens up. The nose and ears project from the flesh and become perforated, while the eyes are filled with a clear fluid1. The sex of genitals becomes plain. The entrails too are formed into distinct parts. Moreover, the upper portions of the body now respire through the mouth and nostrils, with the result the belly is inflated and the intestines, inflated from above, cut off respiration through the umbilicus and put an end to it. A passage outside is formed from the belly and intestine through the anus, and another one through the bladder.<br /><br />18. Sections 18 continues that the period of articulation (the period in which the limbs are differentiated)is forty-two days for the female and for a boy thirty days.<br /><br />By now the foetus is formed. This stage is reached, for the female foetus, in forty-two days at maximum, and for the male, in thirty days at maximum. This is the period for articulation in most cases, take or give a little. And the lochial discharge too after birth is usually completed within forty-two days if the child is a girl. At least this is the longest period, which completes it, but it would still be safe even if it took only twenty-five days. If the child is a boy, the discharge takes thirty days - again the longest period, but there is no danger even if it takes only twenty days. During the latter part of the period the amount which flows is very small. In young women, the discharge takes a smaller number of days; more, when women are older. It is the women who are having their first child who suffer the most pain during the birth and during the subsequent discharge, and those who have had fewer children suffer more than those who have had a greater number."<br /><br />Section 22 -27 compares the animal embryo with plant seeds, and concludes that from beginning to end the process of growth in plants and in humans is exactly the same.<br /><br />In Section 30 there is an important passage in which the author discusses the phenomena of birth. and its relation to food.<br /><br />It concludes, those, which have least food for the foetus, come quickest to birth and vice versa.<br /><br />1. This has also been translated as "'The ears are opened, and the eyes, which are filled with a clear liquid." and compared to the Hadith of the Prophet Mohammad (Salla Allah Ta'alah 'Alaihi Wa Salam), 'I worship Him Who made my face and formed it, and opened my hearing and eyesight'".<br /><br />However, the translation is in Hippocratic Writings, Penguin Classics, 1983 reads "The nose and ears project from the flesh and become perforated, while the eyes are filled with a clear fluid" .is clearly referring to embryo development, and is totally different to the Hadith of the Prophet (Salla Allah Ta'alah 'Alaihi Wa Salam). However, the Hadith is talking about something completely different, i.e. acknowledging the bounties of the creator, whist Hippocrates is referring to embryo development..<br /><br />This example demonstrated the biased and subjective interpretation used by some individuals.<br /> <br /><b>3. Aristotle and embryology</b><br /><br />Aristotle (384 - 322 BC) was a Greek philosopher and scientist who wrote over 400 books on many different branches of learning. His main embryological compendium was that entitled On the Generation of Animals. Aristotle dissected and examined many different types of animal embryos, mammalian and cold blooded. It is also possible that he dissected an aborted human embryo (Ogle, W. Aristotle on the Parts of Animals, Kegan Paul, London, 1882).<br /><br />A central part of Aristotle's ideas on embryology was the concept of the menstrual blood coagulating to form the embryo. He regarded menstrual blood as a kind of semen, which required the male semen to initiate development of the embryo by spontaneous generation<br /><br />"The foregoing discussion will have made it clear that the female, though it does not contribute any semen to generation, yet contributes something, viz., the substance constituting the menstrual fluid (or the corresponding substance in bloodless animals). But the same is apparent if we consider the matter generally, from the theoretical standpoint. Thus: there must be that which generates, and that out of which it generates ; and even if these two be united in one, at any rate they must differ in kind, and in that the essence of each of them is distinct. In those animals in which these two faculties are separate, the body - that is to say the physical nature- of the active partner and of the passive must be different. Thus, if the male is the active partner, the one which originates the movement, and the female qua female is the passive one, surely what the female contributes to the semen of the male will be not semen but material. And this is in fact what we find happening; for the natural substance of the menstrual fluid is to be classed as "prime matter." (Aristotle (English trans. A. L. Peck, Heinemann, 1942 edition, Generation of Animals, p.111, 729a).<br /><br />Aristotle had opened hen's eggs at different stages and describes the order of formation of the embryo:<br /><br />"How, then, are the other parts formed? Either they are all formed simultaneously - heart, lung, liver, eye, and the rest of them - or successively, as we read in the poems ascribed to Orpheus, where he says that the process by which an animal is formed resembles the knitting of a net. As for simultaneous formation of the parts, our senses tell us plainly that this does not happen: some of the parts are clearly to be seen present in the embryo while others are not. And our failure to see them is not because they are too small; this is certain, because although the lung is larger in size than the heart it makes its appearance later in the original process of formation" (Generation of Animals, p.147, 734a).<br /><br />Aristotle continues to describes embryonic development by comparing it with the action of rennet and yeast<br /><br />"The action of the semen of the male in" setting" the female's secretion in the uterus is similar to that rennet upon milk. Rennet is milk which contains vital heat, as semen does, and this integrates the homogeneous substance and makes it "set." As nature of milk and the menstrual fluid is one and the same, the action of the semen upon the substance of the menstrual fluid is the same as that of rennet upon milk. Thus when the " setting " is effected, i.e., when the bulky portion " sets," the fluid portion comes off; and as the earthy portion solidifies membranes form all round its outer surface.<br /><br />Once the fetation has " set," it behaves like seeds sown in the ground. The first principle (of growth) is present in the seeds themselves too, and as soon as this, which at first was present potentially, has become distinct, a shoot and a root are thrown under it, the root being the channel by which nourishment is obtained, for of course the plant needs material for growth. So too in the fetation, in a way all the parts are present potentially, but the first principle has made the most headway, and on that account the first to become distinct in actuality is the heart" (Generation of Animals, p.191, 739b).<br /><br />Later on, he also says:<br /><br />"The reason for this is on a par with the reason why yeast grows. Yeast, like these, is tall in bulk to start with and gets larger : this growth is due to its more solid portion turning fluid, and the fluid turning in to puenma. This is the handiwork of the soul-heat. In the case of animals, of the heat of the humour blend with it in the case of the yeast. Eggs thus grow of necessity on account of this use (i.e., they contain a yeast-like residue), but also they grow for the sake of what is better, since it is possible for them to obtain all their growth in uterus owing to the prolific habit of these animals." (Generation of Animals, p.305, 755a).<br /><br />Aristotle describes embryonic growth;<br /><br />"Beginning at the heart, the blood-vessels extend all over the body. They may be compared to the skeleton models which are traced out on the walls of buildings, since the parts are situated around the blood vessels, because they are formed out of them.<br /><br />The formation of the uniform parts is effected by the agency of cooling and heat; some things are " set" and solidified by the cold and some by the hot. I have spoken previously elsewhere of the difference between these, and I have stated what sort of things are dissoluble by fluid and by fire, and what sorts are not dissoluble by fluid and cannot be melted by fire. Resuming then: As the nourishment oozes through the blood-vessels and the passages in the several parts (just as water does when it stands in unbaked earthenware), flesh, or its counterpart, is formed: it is the cold which sets " the flesh, and that is why fire dissolves it. As the nourishment wells up, the excessively earthy stuff in it, which contains but little and heat, becomes cooled while the fluid is evaporating together with the hot substance, and is formed into parts that are hard and earthy in appearance, e.g., nails, horns, hoofs and bills; hence, these Nails etc. can be softened, but not one of them can be melted, by fire; though some, e.g., eggshell, can be melted by fluids.<br /><br />The sinews and bones are formed, as the fluidity solidifies, by the agency of the internal heat; hence bones (like earthenware) cannot be dissolved by fire they have been baked as it were in an oven by the heat present at their formation. This heat, however, to produce flesh or bone, does not work on some casual material in some casual place at some casual time ; material, place and time must be those ordained by Nature: that which is potentially will not be brought into being by a motive agent which lacks the appropriate actuality; so, equally, that which possesses the actuality will not produce the article out of any casual material. No more could a carpenter produce a chest out of anything but wood; and, equally, without the carpenter no chest will be produced out of the wood.<br /><br />The heat resides in the seminal residue, and the movement and the activity which it possesses are in amount and character correctly proportioned to suit each several part. If they are at all deficient or excessive, to that extent they cause the forming product to be inferior or deformed. The same is true that things that are set " by heat elsewhere than in the uterus ; e.g., things which we boil to make them pleasant for food, or for any other practical purpose.<br /><br />The only difference is that in this case the correct proportion of heat to suit the movement is supplied by us, whereas in the other, it is supplied by the nature of the generating parent. With those animals that are formed spontaneously the cause responsible 'is the movement and heat of the climatic conditions. Heat and cooling (which is deprivation of heat) are both employed by Nature. Each has the faculty, rounded in necessity, of making one thing into this in another thing into that; but in the case of the forming of the embryo it is for a purpose that their power of heating and cooling is exerted and that each of the parts is formed, flesh being made soft as flesh. As heating and cooling make it such, partly owing to necessity, partly for a purpose, - sinew solid and elastic, and brittle. Skin is formed as the flesh skin. just as scum or "mother" forms on boiled liquids. Its formation is due not merely to its being on the outside, but also to the fact that glutinous substance remains on the surface because it cannot evaporate. In blooded animals the glutinous substance is more fatty than in bloodless ones, in which is dry, and on this account the outer parts of the latter are testaceous or crustaceous. In those blooded animal whose nature is not excessively earthy, the fat collects under the protective covering, the skin, seems to indicate that the skin is formed out this sort of glutinous substance, since of course cheese is to some extent glutinous. We are to say, then, as already stated, that all these things are formed partly as a result of necessity, partly also not necessity but for a purpose."<br /><br />Concurrent growth and differentiation, the former being temporally sequent to the latter, he thus describes :<br /><br />"Now the upper portion of the body is the first to be marked off in the course of the embryo's formation; the lower portion receives its growth as time goes on (This applies to the blooded animals). In the early stages the parts are all traced out in outline; later they get their various colours and softnesses and hardnesses, for all the world as if a painter were at work on them, the painter being Nature. Painters, as we know, first of all sketch in the figure of the animal in outline, and after that go on to apply the colours.<br /><br />As the source of the sensations is in the heart, the heart is the first part of the whole animal to be formed; and, on account of the heat of the heart, and to provide a corrective to it, the cold causes the brain to "set," where the blood-vessels terminate above. That is why the regions around the head begin to form immediately after the heart and are than the other parts, the brain being large from the outset" (Generation of Animals, pp.219-225, 743a-743b).<br /><br />Aristotle also held the belief that males are generated on the left-hand side of the womb, and females on the right hand side (Generation of Animals, 717b).<br /><br /><b>4. Galen and embryology</b><br /><br />Galen (129-199 AD) was a physician and scholar, whose ideas dominated medicine until the Renaissance. Galen's theory of embryology is to be found in his On the Natural Faculties, and On the Formation of the Foetus, which deals more with the anatomical aspects.<br /><br />Galen regarded the living being as owing all its characteristics to an indwelling physis or natural entity with whose "faculties" or powers it was the province of physiology to deal. The living organism was thought to have a kind of artistic creative power, which acts on the things around it by means of the faculties, by the aid of which each part attracts to itself what is useful and good for it, and repels what is not. These faculties, such as the "peptic faculty" in the stomach and the "sphygmic faculty" in the heart, are regarded by Galen as the causes of the specific functions or activity of the part in question.<br /><br />Galen divides the effects of the faculties into three, genesis, growth and nutrition, and means by the first what we mean by embryogeny.<br /><br />"Genesis is not a simple activity of Nature, but is compounded of alteration and of shaping. That is to say, in order that bone, nerve, veins and all other tissues may come into existence, the underlying substance from which the animal springs must be altered; and in order that the substance so altered may acquire its appropriate shape and position, its cavities, outgrowths, and attachments, and so forth, it has to undergo a shaping or formative process. One would be justified in calling this substance which undergoes alteration the material of an animal, just as wood is the material of a ship and wax of an image."<br /><br />Galen then goes on to treat embryogeny in more detail. Galen did not think that menstrual blood played a role in procreation, but concluded that female semen forms the allantoois and the coagulation of male and female semen in the uterus results in the formation of the chorion. He spoke about four stages of development. And he also divided the body into two classes, partes spermaticae and partes sanguineae, a classification which remained in use for several hundred years.<br /><br />"The seed having been cast into the womb or into the earth - for there is no difference [he says] then after a certain definite period a great number of parts become constituted in the substance which is being generated; these differ as regards moisture, dryness, coldness and warmth, and in all the other qualities which naturally derive therefrom [such as hardness, softness, viscosity, friability, lightness, heaviness, density, rarity, smoothness, roughness, thickness and thinness]. Now nature constructs bone, cartilage, nerve, membrane, ligament, vein and so forth at the first stage of the animal's genesis, employing at this task a faculty which is, in general terms, generative and alterative, and, in more detail, warming, chilling, drying and moistening, or such as spring from the blending of these, for example, the bone-producing, nerve-producing and cartilage-producing, faculties (since for the sake of clearness these terms must be used as well).<br /><br />Now the peculiar flesh of the liver is of a certain specific kind, also that of the spleen, that of the kidneys and that of the lungs, and that of the heart, so also the proper substance of the brain, stomach, oesophagus, intestines and uterus is a sensible element, of similar parts all through, simple and uncompounded.<br /><br />... Thus the special alterative faculties in each animal are of the same number as the elementary parts, and further, the activities must necessarily correspond each to one of the special parts, just as each part has its special use. As for the actual substance of the coats of the stomach, intestine and uterus, each of these has been rendered what it is by a special alterative faculty of Nature; while the bringing of these together, the combination therewith of the structures that are inserted into them, etc., have all been determined by a faculty which we call the shaping or formative faculty; this faculty we also state to be artistic-nay, the best and highest art-doing everything for some purpose, so that there is nothing ineffective or superfluous, or capable of being better disposed."<br /><br />Galen shared many common views with the Hippocratic writers so the book on the formation of the embryo first gives a historical account of the views these writers. Then it goes on to describe the anatomy of allantois, amnios, placenta and membranes.<br /><br />"I return again to what was postponed from the beginning. This (embryo) draws to itself through the vessels descending to the uterus blood and pneuma, each to its own particular cavity; and, as was said earlier also, along with its own particular cavity ; and as was said earlier also, along with the pneuma that comes through the arteries, it draws in a blood that is finer and warmer than the blood in the veins.<br /><br />From these it creates tile warmest of the inner organs; and that other thick blood produces for it the form of the liver. And accordingly the many veins that pass through the chorion proceed to (the liver); but the arteries (proceed) to the other organ, the warmer one, which because of a superabundance of heat like a flame does not stop moving but constantly expands and contracts by turns. The veins and arteries that carry matter to these inner organs are as it were their roots; and those that carry (the matter) out to the whole foetus are analogous to trunks that split into many branches. And they too have their generation in the hollowing out of the substance of the semen.<br /><br />The third of the ruling parts, from which all the nerves grow. has its generation from the semen itself and from it alone. For in the mixing with the female semen many of the bubbles burst, and the pneuma from them passed inside and deep down, in the desire to preserve itself- it was not a kind of vapour but was a self-moving source of the animal and likewise the surrounding fluid of its own accord formed within the semen a cavity filled with pneuma. Then to prevent its being readily emptied out, (the puenma) makes for itself a tightly sealed chamber, pushing back to the outer circumference all that was thicker and harder in the semen's moist substance surrounding it; and this, when heated and dried, would in time be alone<br /><br />The power that moulds the animal performs this work at the start; but it is not yet visible at the start because of its small size; when it can first be seen, these are the largest and they lie in order, close to each other and touching, the part that is going to become the source of the nerves, the one that we call the brain being assigned to a higher post; and below it the heart and liver touching each other. As time goes on the three sources mentioned stand further apart and send their offshoots this way and that to the entire body of the animal that is fitted to them, the brain sending out the spinal medulla, a kind of trunk, as it were, the heart the greatest artery, which Aristotle calls the aorta, and the liver the vena cava. And also in the early stages, simultaneously with the generation of these parts, the spine appears around the spinal medulla, hardened in just the way that we described a little earlier; and around the brain, enclosing it on all sides, the cranium appears; and the thorax around the heart, like some spacious yet tightly sealed chamber. At the time of birth this would be not a chamber only, but the first and principal organ of respiration. These parts, then, come into being at some later time.<br /><br />But let us take the account back again to the first conformation of the animal, and in order to make our account orderly and clear, let us divide the creation of the foetus overall into four periods of time. The first is that in which as is seen both in abortions and in dissection, the form of the semen prevails. At this time, Hippocrates too, the all marvellous, does not yet call the conformation of the animal a foetus; as we heard just now in the case of semen voided in the sixth day, he still calls it semen. But when it has been filled with blood, and heart, brain and liver are still unarticulated and unshaped yet have by now a certain solidarity and considerable size, this is the second period; the substance of the foetus has the form of flesh and no longer the form of semen. Accordingly you would find that Hippocrates too no longer calls such a form semen but, as was said, foetus. The third period follows on this, when, as was said, it is possible to see the three ruling parts clearly and a kind of outline, a silhouette, as it were, of all the other parts. You will see the conformation of the three ruling parts more clearly, that of the parts of the stomach more dimly, and much more still, that of the limbs. Later on they form "twigs", as Hippocrates expressed it, indicating by the term their similarity to branches.<br /><br />The fourth and final period is at the stage when all the parts in the limbs have been differentiated; and at this part Hippocrates the marvellous no longer calls the foetus an embryo only, but already a child, too when he says that it jerks and moves as an animal now fully formed."<br /><br />Galen further goes on to describe the embryo as a plant<br /><br />"But for the present I need not speak of the foetus as an animal, for as a plant it got all its generation and formation from the semen, and right from the start it indicated, as plants do, that the beginning of its motion and formation was two-fold. The downward and underground growth of roots in plants corresponds in the foetus to the growth of the arteries and veins of the chorion to the uterus; and the ascending stalk in plants corresponds to the out growths from the three ruling parts in embryos. Again, just as plants have a two-fold growth from seeds, sending stalk and branches upward as far as the outer most shoots and dividing the root-growth downward, so also the embryos have much-divided outgrowths consisting in arteries and veins that extend as stalks to the whole foetus and as roots to the uterus." (Corpus Medicorum Graecorum: Galeni de Semine: Galen: On Semen (Greek text with English trans. Phillip de Lacy, Akademic Verlag, 1992) section I:9:1-10, pp. 91-95)<br /><br />Galen taught that the embryo transformed from possessing the life of a plant to that of an animal, and the umbilicus was made the root in the analogy with a plant. The embryo formed firstly, from menstrual blood, and secondly, from blood brought by the umbilical cord, and the way the blood it turns into the embryo is made clearer as follows: "If you cut open the vein of an animal and let the blood flow out into moderately hot water, the formation of a coagulum very like the substance of the liver will be seen to take place." And in effect this viscus, according to Galen, is formed before the heart.<br /><br />The blood of the embryo was thought to pass from the heart to the lungs and not vice versa. Respiration was thought to occur via the umbilical cord embryo and waste excreted into the allantois. Male foetuses were believed to form quicker than female ones because of the male germs superior heat and dryness. Galen also held the Aristotelian concept which associated male conception with the right side and the female with the left of the womb and intra-uterine movements were said to be felt sooner in the case of the male than in that of the female. Dry foods eaten by the mother, were proposed to lead to a more rapid development of the foetus than other kinds.<br /> <br /><b>5. Embryology in the Jewish scriptures</b><br /><br />The Talmud is one of the most important works of Jewish religious literature, which grew up between the second and sixth centuries A..D. The Talmud contains several references to embryology. The embryo is referred to as peri habbetten (fruit of the body), It grew through various definite stages: <br /><br />    * (1)golem (formless, rolled-up thing), 0-1.5 months.<br />    * (2)shefir meruqqam (embroidered foetus), ~<br />    * (3)'ubbar (something carried), 1.5-4 months.<br />    * (4)walad (child), 4-7 months.<br />    * (5)walad shel qayama (viable child), 7-9 months.<br />    * (6)ben she-kallu khadashaw (child whose months have been completed)<br /><br />The ideas of the Talmudic writers on the life led by the embryo in utero are well represented by the remark, "It floateth like a nutshell on the waters and moveth hither and thither at every touch".<br /><br />Rabbi Simlal lectured: "the babe in its mother's womb is like a rolled-up scroll, with folded arms lying closely pressed together, its elbows resting on its hips, its heels against its buttocks, its head between its knees. Its mouth is closed, its navel open. It eats its mother's food and sips its mother's drink but it doth not excrete for fear of hurting."<br /><br />It was thought, moreover, that the bones and tendons, the nails, the marrow in the head and the white of the eye, were derived from the father, "who sows the white," but the skin, flesh, blood, hair, and the dark part of the eye from the mother, "who sows the red." This is evidently in direct descent from Aristotle through Galen, and may be compared with the following passage from the latter writer's Commentary on Hippocrates:<br /><br />"We teach that some parts of the body are formed from the semen and the flesh alone from blood. But because the amount of semen which is injected into the uterus is small, growth and increment must come for the most part from the blood."<br /><br />It is possible that the Jews of Alexandria were reading Aristotle in the third century B.C., and incorporating him into the Wisdom Literature, so those of the third century A.D. were reading Galen and incorporating him into the Talmud. God, was thought to contribute the life, the soul, the expression of the face, and the functions of the different parts.<br /><b> <br />6. Essential Islamic Terminology</b><br /><br />Allah: The name of the One and Only God, the Creator, who is perfect in all characteristics, worthy of worship and who has sent His messengers to mankind.<br /><br />The Qur'an: This is the word of Allah revealed to Prophet and Messenger Muhammad (Salla Allah Ta'alah 'Alaihi Wa Salam) precisely transmitted to us by groups of people from other groups where agreement on falsehood is impossible. It is the miraculous word of Allah and when read, it is considered a form of worship.<br /><br />The Prophet and Messenger Muhammad (Salla Allah Ta'alah 'Alaihi Wa Salam): The last and final Prophet and Messenger born 570 A.D. in Mecca, Allah bestowed him with Prophethood at the age of 40 years.<br /><br />Al-Hadith: The tradition of the Prophet and Messenger Muhammad (Salla Allah Ta'alah 'Alaihi Wa Salam) which consists of his sayings, his practice and acknowledgements.<br /><br />Meanings of Qur'an and Hadith:<br /><br />The interpretation of the Qur'an and Hadith has been based on meanings derived from the reference sources included in the references section. The meanings of the important Arabic words have been referenced throughout. The capital letters in the references indicate the sections of the list of references. The number immediately preceding the letter indicates the position of the references within each section. This is followed by page numbers or volume number followed by page numbers as the case may be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><br /><br />]]></description>
		<starter>Saaabz</starter>
		<poster>Saaabz</poster>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:51:06 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:53:30 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">733288</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Interpreting Scientific Verses</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=732366</link>
		<description><![CDATA[<b><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#008000--><span style="color:#008000"><!--/coloro-->( Part No : 4, Page No: 180)<br /><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b><br /><br /><b>The third question of Fatwa no. 9247<br /><br /><u>Question 3: What is the ruling on scientific books of Tafsir (exegesis of the meanings of the Qur’an)?</u><br /><br /><br /></b><br /><br /><u>Answer</u>: No reference should be made to any books of Tafsir which contain invalid interpretations like interpreting the Qur’anic Ayah (verse) saying (what means): [b<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->]&lt;&lt;Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. &gt;&gt;<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> [/b]as meaning that the earth used to be part of the sun and due to the speedy rotation of the sun on its axis, the earth detached from it. Some time later, the surface of the earth cooled down while the interior part remained hot. The earth then joined the nine planets of the known solar system orbiting the sun. Scientific books of Tafsir which support such theories are not reliable.<br /><br />The same holds true of other books of Tafsir whose authors prove the theory of the earth’s rotation based on deduction from the Qur’anic Ayah which states: [b<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->]&lt;&lt;And you will see the mountains and think them solid, but they shall pass away as the passing away of the clouds. &gt;&gt;<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->[/b]These kinds of Tafsir change the words of the Qur’an out of their natural context in an attempt to subject them to so-called "scientific theories" which are no more than hypothetical assumptions and speculative suppositions.<br /><br /><br />Falling under the same category are all such books of Tafsir which depend on introducing novel theories<br /><br /><b><!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->( Part No : 4, Page No: 181)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><br /><br /><br />which are not known to have an origin in the Qur’an or Sunnah (whatever is reported from the Prophet) or in the opinions of the Salaf (righteous predecessors) of the Islamic Ummah (nation). The obvious reason is that the authors of these books invent inadvertent fallacies against Allah (Exalted be He).<br /><br />May Allah grant us success! May peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and Companions!<br /><br /><br /><u><b>Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Ifta’ :<br /><br /></b></u><br /><br /><br />Members - <br />Abdullah ibn Qa&#96;ud,Abdullah ibn Ghudayyan<br />Deputy Chairman -<br />Abdul-Razzaq &#96;Afify <br />Chairman - <br />Abdul-&#96;Aziz ibn &#96;Abdullah ibn Baz<br /><br />Source -http://www.alifta.com/Fatawa/FatawaChapters.aspx?View=Page&PageID=1156&PageNo=1 &BookID=7 <br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br />Also read the Fatwa :<br />Is it permissible or even acceptable for someone to state their personal contemplations on the Qur’an or what scholars call “Lata’if Al-Tafsir (Subtleties of Qur’an Interpretation) although they are not based on any Hadith Mawquf (a Hadith narrated from a Companion of the Prophet) or Hadith Marfu‘ (a Hadith narrated from the Prophet with a connected or disconnected chain of narration)?<br /><br />Source -<br /><a href="http://www.alifta.com/Fatawa/FatawaC...eNo=1&BookID=7" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.alifta.com/Fatawa/FatawaC...eNo=1&BookID=7</a><br /><br />]]></description>
		<starter>Orthodox</starter>
		<poster>Orthodox</poster>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 14:35:43 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 14:35:43 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">732366</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Conferences About The Collapse Of Evolution In Swiss</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=732089</link>
		<description><![CDATA[A Series of Conferences will be held About The Collapse of The Evolution in Swiss<br /><br />A series of conferences will be held about the Collapse of the Evolution Theory in Lausanne, Geneva and Zurich on May 25-28th. <br /><br />]]></description>
		<starter>ebaskan1971</starter>
		<poster>wattle</poster>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 14:30:39 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 04:21:18 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">732089</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title><![CDATA[Abbas Ibn Firnas & Ibn Al Haytham]]></title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=731948</link>
		<description><![CDATA[<img src="http://www.gawaher.com/style_emoticons/default/sl.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":sl:" border="0" alt="sl.gif" /><br /><br />Recently while studying Islamic history, and its influence on Western civilization I came across the names of two extraordinary men, Abbas Ibn Firnas and Ibn Al-Haytham. Abbas Ibn Firnas, considered to be the first man to fly and Ibn Al-Haytham regarded by many as the first scientist. Both High-end achievers in the Sciences and Engineering they sparked my interest and I wish to do extensive research on their works and accomplishments. <br /><br />For those that are aware of these men and have read their biographies or any literature on them could you provide me with links or names of books .<br /><br />Jazakallah,<br /><br /><u><b>Abbas Ibn Firnas</b></u><br /><br /><i>Abbas Ibn Firnas, or 'Abbas Qasim Ibn Firnas (810 – 887 A.D.) (Arabic: ÇáÚÈÇÓ Èä ÝÑäÇÓ) was a Berber[1] humanitarian, technologist, and chemist who lived in the Umayyad Caliphate of C&#243;rdoba in Al-Andalus.<br /><br />In 822, a new Caliph named 'Abd al-Rahman II took the throne, and he began to gather together talented individuals. He began with an Iraqi musician called Ziryab who fostered the development of the sciences. Another one was the young astronomer and poet Abbas Ibn Firnas.<br /><br />In 852, under a new Caliph, a daredevil named Armen Firman decided to fly off a tower in C&#243;rdoba using a huge winglike cloak to break his fall. He survived with minor injuries, and the young Ibn Firnas was there to see it. This was considered to be the first parachute.<br /><br />Like Ziryab, Ibn Firnas worked at a huge variety of enterprises. He was studied in chemistry, physics, and astronomy. He set up astronomical tables, wrote poetry, and designed a water clock called Al-Maqata. He also devised means of manufacturing glass from sand, and he developed a chain of rings that could be used to display the motions of the planets and stars. He also developed a process for cutting rock crystal. Up to then, only the Egyptians knew how to facet crystal. Thereafter Spain no longer needed to export quartz to Egypt, but could finish it at home.<br /><br />In 875 at an age of 65 years, Ibn Firnas built his own glider, and launched himself from a mountain. The flight was largely successful, and was widely observed by a crowd that he had invited. However, the landing was bad. He injured his back, and left critics saying he hadn't taken proper account of the way birds pull up into a stall, and land on their tails. He'd provided neither a tail, nor means for such a maneuver. He died twelve years later.<br /><br />"Ibn Firnas was the first man in history to make a scientific attempt at flying."<br />—Philip Hitti, History of the Arabs.<br /><br />As westerners teach their children about the Wright Brothers, the Islamic countries tell theirs about Ibn Firnas, a thousand years before the Wrights—though his flight was not powered. The Libyans produced a postage stamp honoring him. The Iraqis built a statue in his memory on the way to Baghdad International Airport, and the Ibn Firnas Airport to the north of Baghdad is named for him.<br /><br />Ibn Firnas crater on the Moon is also named in his honor.</i><br /><br /><b><u>Ibn al Haytham</u></b><br /><br /><i>Known in the West as Alhazen, Alhacen, or Alhazeni, Abu Ali al-Hasan ibn al-Hasan ibn al-Haytham was the first person to test hypotheses with verifiable experiments, developing the scientific method more than 200 years before European scholars learned of it—by reading his books.<br /><br />Born in Basra in 965, Ibn al-Haitham first studied theology, trying unsuccessfully to resolve the differences between the Shi'ah and Sunnah sects. Ibn al-Haitham then turned his attention to the works of the ancient Greek philosophers and mathematicians, including Euclid and Archimedes. He completed the fragmentary Conics by Apollonius of Perga. Ibn al-Haitham was the first person to apply algebra to geometry, founding the branch of mathematics known as analytic geometry.<br /><br />A devout Muslim, Ibn al-Haitham believed that human beings are flawed and only God is perfect. To discover the truth about nature, Ibn a-Haitham reasoned, one had to eliminate human opinion and allow the universe to speak for itself through physical experiments. "The seeker after truth is not one who studies the writings of the ancients and, following his natural disposition, puts his trust in them," the first scientist wrote, "but rather the one who suspects his faith in them and questions what he gathers from them, the one who submits to argument and demonstration."<br /><br />In his massive study of light and vision, Kitâb al-Manâzir (Book of Optics ), Ibn al-Haytham submitted every hypothesis to a physical test or mathematical proof. To test his hypothesis that "lights and colors do not blend in the air," for example, Ibn al-Haytham devised the world's first camera obscura, observed what happened when light rays intersected at its aperture, and recorded the results. Throughout his investigations, Ibn al-Haytham followed all the steps of the scientific method.<br /><br />Kitab al-Manazir was translated into Latin as De aspectibus and attributed to Alhazen in the late thirteenth century in Spain. Copies of the book circulated throughout Europe. Roger Bacon, who sometimes is credited as the first scientist, wrote a summary of Kitab al-Manazir entitled Perspectiva (Optics) some two hundred years after the death of the scholar known as Alhazen.<br /><br />Ibn al-Haytham conducted many of his experiments investigating the properties of light during a ten-year period when he was stripped of his possessions and imprisoned as a madman in Cairo. How Ibn al-Haytham came to be in Egypt, why he was judged insane, and how his discoveries launched the scientific revolution are just some of the questions Bradley Steffens answers in Ibn al-Haytham: First Scientist, the world's first biography of the Muslim polymath.</i>]]></description>
		<starter>Saaabz</starter>
		<poster>the sad clown</poster>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 May 2010 15:57:46 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:03:31 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">731948</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Living Fossils - Video</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=731720</link>
		<description><![CDATA[<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>LIVING FOSSILS - Video<br /><br /><a href="http://en.harunyahya.tv/videoDetail/Lang/4/Product/4182/LIVING_FOSSILS" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://en.harunyahya.tv/videoDetail/Lang/4.../LIVING_FOSSILS</a></b><br /><br />Evolutionists claim that one species turned into another, and all the life forms on the Earth have thus emerged. If this were true, then there must have been countless fossils of intermediate forms that show these different species allegedly evolving into one another. But no fossils of half-fish semi-amphibians, half-dinosaur half-birds, or half-ape half-humans of the kind sought by evolutionists have ever been found. Quite the contrary, the Earth’s fossil layers actually prove that living things have existed in their perfect forms ever since they were first created by God.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->]]></description>
		<starter>umutgedikli</starter>
		<poster>umutgedikli</poster>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 17:06:40 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 17:06:40 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">731720</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>The Qur’an Leads The Way To Science - Video</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=731719</link>
		<description><![CDATA[<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>THE QUR’AN LEADS THE WAY TO SCIENCE - Video<br /><br /><a href="http://en.harunyahya.tv/videoDetail/Lang/4/Product/1270/THE_QUR’AN_LEADS_THE_WAY_TO_SCIENCE" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://en.harunyahya.tv/videoDetail/Lang/4..._WAY_TO_SCIENCE</a></b><br /><br />Scientific observation introduces man to the mysteries of creation, and ultimately, to God’s eternal knowledge, wisdom and power. As stated by Albert Einstein, "science without religion is lame", which is to say, that science, unguided by religion, cannot proceed correctly, but rather, wastes much time in achieving results, and worse, is often inconclusive. Islam is a religion of reason that encourages science. Watch this film to see how the Qur’an leads the way to science by calling on people to reflect upon and examine the signs of creation around them. <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->]]></description>
		<starter>umutgedikli</starter>
		<poster>umutgedikli</poster>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 17:05:25 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 17:05:25 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">731719</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>The Collapse Of Evolution - Video</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=731718</link>
		<description><![CDATA[<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>THE COLLAPSE OF EVOLUTION - Video<br /><br /><a href="http://en.harunyahya.tv/videoDetail/Lang/4/Product/1245/THE_COLLAPSE_OF_EVOLUTION" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://en.harunyahya.tv/videoDetail/Lang/4...SE_OF_EVOLUTION</a></b><br /><br />Various branches of science developed since the formulation of Darwinism have demonstrated that this theory is nothing but an imaginary scenario. This documentary examines this scientific collapse of Darwinism in three chapters: <br />1) The Origin of Life <br />2) Imaginary Mechanisms of Evolution <br />3) The Fossil Record <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><br /> <br />]]></description>
		<starter>umutgedikli</starter>
		<poster>umutgedikli</poster>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 17:03:27 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 17:03:27 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">731718</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>The Collapse Of Atheism - Video</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=731717</link>
		<description><![CDATA[<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>THE COLLAPSE OF ATHEISM - Video<br /><br /><a href="http://en.harunyahya.tv/videoDetail/Lang/4/Product/1244/THE_COLLAPSE_OF_ATHEISM" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://en.harunyahya.tv/videoDetail/Lang/4...APSE_OF_ATHEISM</a></b><br /><br />We are at a turning point in the history of mankind. Atheism, that has so influenced the world of science and thought since the 18th century, is now undergoing an inevitable collapse. In this film you will see how the most basic assumptions of atheism collapsed with scientific, political and sociological developments in the past decades. From the theories of Charles Darwin or Sigmund Freud, to the fall of communism or the hippie dream, see how the atheist dogma falls at the dawn of the 21st century. <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->]]></description>
		<starter>umutgedikli</starter>
		<poster>umutgedikli</poster>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 17:01:41 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 17:01:41 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">731717</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Dawkins Is No More Darwinist! He Converted To Space Religion</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=731716</link>
		<description><![CDATA[<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>DAWKINS IS NO MORE DARWINIST! HE CONVERTED TO SPACE RELIGION! Video<br /><br /><a href="http://en.harunyahya.tv/videoDetail/Lang/4/Product/19435/DAWKINS_IS_NO_MORE_DARWINIST!_HE_CONVERTED_TO_SPACE_RELIGION" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://en.harunyahya.tv/videoDetail/Lang/4..._SPACE_RELIGION</a>!</b><br /><br /><br />Unable to deny the existence of 250 million fossils proving the existence of Creation, to explain even how a single protein came into existence or how life initially began, to give an example about a beneficial mutation, and seeing the glory of the fact of Creation, Richard Dawkins came up with the irrational idea that living beings came from space, in an effort to cope with the profound dilemma he faced!  Now it remains for Dawkins to answer the following question: Who created the aliens?<br />The Creator of all beings is All-Mighty Allah. Each superstitious explanation brought against Allah's All-Mighty existence is doomed to disappear, rot and fall into disgrace. <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><br /> <br />]]></description>
		<starter>umutgedikli</starter>
		<poster>umutgedikli</poster>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:59:22 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:59:22 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">731716</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>The End Of Creationism</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=731610</link>
		<description><![CDATA[I was about to make a post the size of a whale, but I decided to get right down to the point. I kindly respect everyone's views about the origin of the universe. However, in this post, I postulate a question to the people who hold the opinion of divine creation i.e. that a god or god(s) miraculously created mankind in our current form a recent time ago. Here's my challenge to that:<br /><br /><b><u>GOOSE BUMPS</u></b><br /><br />Goose bumps happens when you are sitting near the window and cool breeze comes in and your arms do these funny things: the look like bumps! Those are little muscles in at the base of every hair that contract whenever the nerves feel a cold temperature.<br /><br />Evolution has the <i>perfect</i> explanation for goose bumps. Millions of years ago, our ape ancestors still had a lot of fur. When it got cold, the muscles would contract, making the fur erect. This would keep them warmer. However, later on in the evolutionary ladder, human beings lost the fur (that's why we're called the hairless apes). Although we lost the fur, <b>we did NOT lose the muscles</b>. That's why we have muscles there with no fur to contract. In biology, we have a name for these types of mutations: <u>vestigial</u>. Vestigial structures in a living organism body (such as ourselves) have little to no effect for the organism and have lost their function through evolutionary history (another example would be our appendix).<br /><br />Anyway..from the perspective of the creationist, this would seem extremely bizarre. Why would Allah put muscles there but no fur to contract them? hmmm..? =O Did he put it there to test our faith in the quran?<br /><br />OR MAYBE HE'S TRYING TO TELL US HOW HE DID IT!<br /><br />So that's my question for creationists: why would Allah gives us muscles but no fur to contract them? And while you're at it, tell me why Allah put a useless appendix there?<br /><br />I'd like to hear some peaceful responses.<br /><br />Peace to all.]]></description>
		<starter>friendly_atheist</starter>
		<poster>friendly_atheist</poster>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Apr 2010 18:00:12 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 00:27:09 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">731610</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>What Is MagicÓÍÑ, AyaÇíÉ,miracleãÚÌÒÉ?, SÓáØÇä In The Quran?</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=731375</link>
		<description><![CDATA[ÈÓã Çááå ÇáÑÍãä ÇáÑÍíã<br />ÇáÓáÇã Úáì ãä ÇáÊÈÚ ÇáåÏì<br /><br />magicÓÍÑ, verseÇíÉ,miracleãÚÌÒÉ?, authorityÓáØÇä are terms that i believe is misunderstood by many muslims and i believe <br />that it is because our lack of understanding of this subject that caused an overwhelming damage to the current human society.<br /><br />I have so much questions pertaining this subject, but i want to keep it in the context of the quran.<br />I'm going to breifly list down the aya(verse) that talks about magic.<br /><br />ßóÝóÑó Óõáóíúãó?äõ æóáó?ßöäøó ?áÔøóíó?Øöíäó ßóÝóÑõæÇ? íõÚóáøöãõæäó ?áäøóÇÓó	?áÓøöÍúÑó	 æóãóÇ? ÃõäÒöáó Úóáóì ?áúãóáóßóíúäö  ÈöÈóÇÈöáó åó?ÑõæÊó æóãó?ÑõæÊó	2:102<br />2	ÝóÞóÇáó ?áøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæÇ? ãöäúåõãú Åöäú åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ æóÅöÐú ÃóæúÍóíúÊõ Åöáóì ?áúÍóæóÇÑöíøö?äó Ãóäú ÁóÇãöäõæÇ?	5:110<br />3	ÈöÃóíúÏöíåöãú áóÞóÇáó ?áøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæ?Ç? Åöäú åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ æóÞóÇáõæÇ? áóæúáóÇ? ÃõäÒöáó Úóáóíúåö ãóáóßñ æóáóæú	6:7<br />4	ÝóáóãøóÇ? ÃóáúÞóæúÇ? ÓóÍóÑõæ?Ç? ÃóÚúíõäó ?áäøóÇÓö æó?ÓúÊóÑúåóÈõæåõãú æóÌóÇ?Áõæ	ÈöÓöÍúÑò	ÚóÙöíãò æóÃóæúÍóíúäóÇ? Åöáóì? ãõæÓóì?? Ãóäú ÃóáúÞö ÚóÕóÇßó	7:116<br />5	ÌóÇ?Áóåõãõ ?áúÍóÞøõ ãöäú ÚöäÏöäóÇ ÞóÇáõæ?Ç? Åöäøó åó?ÐóÇ	áóÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ ÞóÇáó ãõæÓóì?? ÃóÊóÞõæáõæäó áöáúÍóÞøö áóãøóÇ ÌóÇ?Áóßõãú	10:76<br />6	ãøõÈöíäñ ÞóÇáó ãõæÓóì?? ÃóÊóÞõæáõæäó áöáúÍóÞøö áóãøóÇ ÌóÇ?Áóßõãú	ÃóÓöÍúÑñ	åó?ÐóÇ æóáóÇ íõÝúáöÍõ ?áÓøó?ÍöÑõæäó ÞóÇáõæ?Ç? ÃóÌöÆúÊóäóÇ áöÊóáúÝöÊóäóÇ	10:77<br />7	ÝóáóãøóÇ? ÃóáúÞóæúÇ? ÞóÇáó ãõæÓóì? ãóÇ ÌöÆúÊõã Èöåö	?áÓøöÍúÑõ	Åöäøó ?ááøóåó ÓóíõÈúØöáõåõ?? Åöäøó ?ááøóåó áóÇ íõÕúáöÍõ	10:81<br />8	?áúãóæúÊö áóíóÞõæáóäøó ?áøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæ?Ç? Åöäú åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ æóáóÆöäú ÃóÎøóÑúäóÇ Úóäúåõãõ ?áúÚóÐóÇÈó Åöáóì?? ÃõãøóÉò	11:7<br />9	ÝóßóÐøóÈó æóÃóÈóì? ÞóÇáó ÃóÌöÆúÊóäóÇ áöÊõÎúÑöÌóäóÇ ãöäú ÃóÑúÖöäóÇ	ÈöÓöÍúÑößó	íó?ãõæÓóì? ÝóáóäóÃúÊöíóäøóßó ÈöÓöÍúÑò ãøöËúáöåö? Ýó?ÌúÚóáú ÈóíúäóäóÇ æóÈóíúäóßó	20:57<br />10	ÃóÌöÆúÊóäóÇ áöÊõÎúÑöÌóäóÇ ãöäú ÃóÑúÖöäóÇ ÈöÓöÍúÑößó íó?ãõæÓóì? ÝóáóäóÃúÊöíóäøóßó	ÈöÓöÍúÑò	ãøöËúáöåö? Ýó?ÌúÚóáú ÈóíúäóäóÇ æóÈóíúäóßó ãóæúÚöÏðÇ áøóÇ äõÎúáöÝõåõ?	20:58<br />11	åó?Ðó?äö áóÓó?ÍöÑó?äö íõÑöíÏóÇäö Ãóä íõÎúÑöÌóÇßõã ãøöäú ÃóÑúÖößõã	ÈöÓöÍúÑöåöãóÇ	æóíóÐúåóÈóÇ ÈöØóÑöíÞóÊößõãõ ?áúãõËúáóì? ÝóÃóÌúãöÚõæÇ? ßóíúÏóßõãú Ëõãøó ?ÆúÊõæÇ?	20:63<br />12	ÃóáúÞõæÇ? ÝóÅöÐóÇ ÍöÈóÇáõåõãú æóÚöÕöíøõåõãú íõÎóíøóáõ Åöáóíúåö ãöä	ÓöÍúÑöåöãú	ÃóäøóåóÇ ÊóÓúÚóì? ÝóÃóæúÌóÓó Ýöì äóÝúÓöåö? ÎöíÝóÉð ãøõæÓóì?	20:66<br />13	Ãóäú ÁóÇÐóäó áóßõãú Åöäøóåõ? áóßóÈöíÑõßõãõ ?áøóÐöì Úóáøóãóßõãõ	?áÓøöÍúÑó	ÝóáóÃõÞóØøöÚóäøó ÃóíúÏöíóßõãú æóÃóÑúÌõáóßõã ãøöäú Îöáó?Ýò æóáóÃõÕóáøöÈóäøóßõãú Ýöì	20:71<br />14	áöíóÛúÝöÑó áóäóÇ ÎóØó?íó?äóÇ æóãóÇ? ÃóßúÑóåúÊóäóÇ Úóáóíúåö ãöäó	?áÓøöÍúÑö	æó?ááøóåõ ÎóíúÑñ æóÃóÈúÞóì?? Åöäøóåõ? ãóä íóÃúÊö ÑóÈøóåõ?	20:73<br />15	ÙóáóãõæÇ? åóáú åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ ÈóÔóÑñ ãøöËúáõßõãú ÃóÝóÊóÃúÊõæäó	?áÓøöÍúÑó	æóÃóäÊõãú ÊõÈúÕöÑõæäó ÞóÇáó ÑóÈøöì íóÚúáóãõ ?áúÞóæúáó Ýöì	21:3<br />16	?áøóÐöì ÎóáóÞó ãöäó ?áúãóÇ?Áö ÈóÔóÑðÇ ÝóÌóÚóáóåõ? äóÓóÈðÇ	æóÕöåúÑðÇ	æóßóÇäó ÑóÈøõßó ÞóÏöíÑðÇ æóíóÚúÈõÏõæäó ãöä Ïõæäö ?ááøóåö	25:54<br />17	áóÓó?ÍöÑñ Úóáöíãñ íõÑöíÏõ Ãóä íõÎúÑöÌóßõã ãøöäú ÃóÑúÖößõã	ÈöÓöÍúÑöåö?	ÝóãóÇÐóÇ ÊóÃúãõÑõæäó ÞóÇáõæ?Ç? ÃóÑúÌöåú æóÃóÎóÇåõ æó?ÈúÚóËú Ýöì	26:35<br />18	Ãóäú ÁóÇÐóäó áóßõãú Åöäøóåõ? áóßóÈöíÑõßõãõ ?áøóÐöì Úóáøóãóßõãõ	?áÓøöÍúÑó	ÝóáóÓóæúÝó ÊóÚúáóãõæäó áóÃõÞóØøöÚóäøó ÃóíúÏöíóßõãú æóÃóÑúÌõáóßõã ãøöäú Îöáó?Ýò	26:49<br />19	Ýó?ÓöÞöíäó ÝóáóãøóÇ ÌóÇ?ÁóÊúåõãú ÁóÇíó?ÊõäóÇ ãõÈúÕöÑóÉð ÞóÇáõæÇ? åó?ÐóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ æóÌóÍóÏõæÇ? ÈöåóÇ æó?ÓúÊóíúÞóäóÊúåóÇ? ÃóäÝõÓõåõãú ÙõáúãðÇ æóÚõáõæøðÇ	27:13<br />20	ãøõæÓóì? ÈöÜ?óÇíó?ÊöäóÇ Èóíøöäó?Êò ÞóÇáõæÇ? ãóÇ åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÝúÊóÑðì æóãóÇ ÓóãöÚúäóÇ Èöåó?ÐóÇ Ýöì? ÁóÇÈóÇ?ÆöäóÇ ?áúÃóæøóáöíäó	28:36<br />21	íóßúÝõÑõæÇ? ÈöãóÇ? ÃõæÊöìó ãõæÓóì? ãöä ÞóÈúáõ ÞóÇáõæÇ?	ÓöÍúÑóÇäö	ÊóÙó?åóÑóÇ æóÞóÇáõæ?Ç? ÅöäøóÇ Èößõáøò ßó?ÝöÑõæäó Þõáú ÝóÃúÊõæÇ?	28:48<br />22	ßóÝóÑõæÇ? áöáúÍóÞøö áóãøóÇ ÌóÇ?Áóåõãú Åöäú åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ æóãóÇ? ÁóÇÊóíúäó?åõã ãøöä ßõÊõÈò íóÏúÑõÓõæäóåóÇ æóãóÇ?	34:43<br />23	ÑóÃóæúÇ? ÁóÇíóÉð íóÓúÊóÓúÎöÑõæäó æóÞóÇáõæ?Ç? Åöäú åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ ÃóÁöÐóÇ ãöÊúäóÇ æóßõäøóÇ ÊõÑóÇÈðÇ æóÚöÙó?ãðÇ ÃóÁöäøóÇ	37:15<br />24	æóÑóÓõæáñ ãøõÈöíäñ æóáóãøóÇ ÌóÇ?Áóåõãõ ?áúÍóÞøõ ÞóÇáõæÇ? åó?ÐóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	æóÅöäøóÇ Èöåö? ßó?ÝöÑõæäó æóÞóÇáõæÇ? áóæúáóÇ äõÒøöáó åó?ÐóÇ	43:30<br />25	ÞóÇáó ?áøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæÇ? áöáúÍóÞøö áóãøóÇ ÌóÇ?Áóåõãú åó?ÐóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ Ãóãú íóÞõæáõæäó ?ÝúÊóÑóì?åõ Þõáú Åöäö ?ÝúÊóÑóíúÊõåõ?	46:7<br />26	ÏóÚøðÇ åó?Ðöåö ?áäøóÇÑõ ?áøóÊöì ßõäÊõã ÈöåóÇ ÊõßóÐøöÈõæäó	ÃóÝóÓöÍúÑñ	åó?ÐóÇ? Ãóãú ÃóäÊõãú áóÇ ÊõÈúÕöÑõæäó ?ÕúáóæúåóÇ Ýó?ÕúÈöÑõæ?Ç?	52:15<br />27	æó?äÔóÞøó ?áúÞóãóÑõ æóÅöä íóÑóæúÇ? ÁóÇíóÉð íõÚúÑöÖõæÇ? æóíóÞõæáõæÇ?	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÓúÊóãöÑøñ æóßóÐøóÈõæÇ? æó?ÊøóÈóÚõæ?Ç? ÃóåúæóÇ?Áóåõãú æóßõáøõ ÃóãúÑò ãøõÓúÊóÞöÑøñ	54:2<br />28	?Óúãõåõ?? ÃóÍúãóÏõ ÝóáóãøóÇ ÌóÇ?Áóåõã Èö?áúÈóíøöäó?Êö ÞóÇáõæÇ? åó?ÐóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ æóãóäú ÃóÙúáóãõ ãöãøóäö ?ÝúÊóÑóì? Úóáóì ?ááøóåö	61:6<br />29	Ëõãøó ÃóÏúÈóÑó æó?ÓúÊóßúÈóÑó ÝóÞóÇáó Åöäú åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	íõÄúËóÑõ Åöäú åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ Þóæúáõ ?áúÈóÔóÑö ÓóÃõÕúáöíåö	74:24<br /><br />and the aya that talks about well.. aya <img src="http://www.gawaher.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> is quite a hand full of them,  but i'm going to point out on some distinct ones ( some talk about authority (ÓáØÇä) and magic (ÓÍÑ)):<br />ÞóÇáó Åöäú ßõäúÊó ÌöÆúÊó ÈöÂóíóÉò ÝóÃúÊö ÈöåóÇ Åöäú ßõäúÊó ãöäó ÇáÕøóÇÏöÞöíäó (106) ÝóÃóáúÞóì ÚóÕóÇåõ ÝóÅöÐóÇ åöíó ËõÚúÈóÇäñ ãõÈöíäñ (107) æóäóÒóÚó íóÏóåõ ÝóÅöÐóÇ åöíó ÈóíúÖóÇÁõ áöáäøóÇÙöÑöíäó (108)<br />(7:106-107)<br />ÝóÃóáúÞóì ÚóÕóÇåõ ÝóÅöÐóÇ åöíó ËõÚúÈóÇäñ ãõÈöíäñ (32) æóäóÒóÚó íóÏóåõ ÝóÅöÐóÇ åöíó ÈóíúÖóÇÁõ áöáäøóÇÙöÑöíäó (33) ÞóÇáó áöáúãóáóÅö Íóæúáóåõ Åöäøó åóÐóÇ áóÓóÇÍöÑñ Úóáöíãñ (34)<br />(26:32-34)<br /> ÇáøóÐöíäó íõÌóÇÏöáõæäó Ýöí ÂóíóÇÊö Çááøóåö ÈöÛóíúÑö ÓõáúØóÇäò ÃóÊóÇåõãú ßóÈõÑó ãóÞúÊðÇ ÚöäúÏó Çááøóåö æóÚöäúÏó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÂóãóäõæÇ ßóÐóáößó íóØúÈóÚõ Çááøóåõ Úóáóì ßõáøö ÞóáúÈö ãõÊóßóÈøöÑò ÌóÈøóÇÑò (40:35)<br />Åöäøó ÇáøóÐöíäó íõÌóÇÏöáõæäó Ýöí ÂóíóÇÊö Çááøóåö ÈöÛóíúÑö ÓõáúØóÇäò ÃóÊóÇåõãú Åöäú Ýöí ÕõÏõæÑöåöãú ÅöáøóÇ ßöÈúÑñ ãóÇ åõãú ÈöÈóÇáöÛöíåö ÝóÇÓúÊóÚöÐú ÈöÇááøóåö Åöäøóåõ åõæó ÇáÓøóãöíÚõ ÇáúÈóÕöíÑõ (56)<br />æóÝöí ÎóáúÞößõãú æóãóÇ íóÈõËøõ ãöäú ÏóÇÈøóÉò ÂóíóÇÊñ áöÞóæúãò íõæÞöäõæäó (4) æóÇÎúÊöáóÇÝö Çááøóíúáö æóÇáäøóåóÇÑö æóãóÇ ÃóäúÒóáó Çááøóåõ ãöäó ÇáÓøóãóÇÁö ãöäú ÑöÒúÞò ÝóÃóÍúíóÇ Èöåö ÇáúÃóÑúÖó ÈóÚúÏó ãóæúÊöåóÇ æóÊóÕúÑöíÝö ÇáÑøöíóÇÍö ÂóíóÇÊñ áöÞóæúãò íóÚúÞöáõæäó (5) Êöáúßó ÂóíóÇÊõ Çááøóåö äóÊúáõæåóÇ Úóáóíúßó ÈöÇáúÍóÞøö ÝóÈöÃóíøö ÍóÏöíËò ÈóÚúÏó Çááøóåö æóÂóíóÇÊöåö íõÄúãöäõæäó (6)<br />((Q 41:4-6)<br /><br /><br />ãóÇ ÊóÚúÈõÏõæäó ãöäú Ïõæäöåö ÅöáøóÇ ÃóÓúãóÇÁð ÓóãøóíúÊõãõæåóÇ ÃóäúÊõãú æóÂóÈóÇÄõßõãú ãóÇ ÃóäúÒóáó Çááøóåõ ÈöåóÇ ãöäú ÓõáúØóÇäò Åöäö ÇáúÍõßúãõ ÅöáøóÇ áöáøóåö ÃóãóÑó ÃóáøóÇ ÊóÚúÈõÏõæÇ ÅöáøóÇ ÅöíøóÇåõ Ðóáößó ÇáÏøöíäõ ÇáúÞóíøöãõ æóáóßöäøó ÃóßúËóÑó ÇáäøóÇÓö áóÇ íóÚúáóãõæäó (40)<br />12:40))<br /> ÞóÇáó ÞóÏú æóÞóÚó Úóáóíúßõãú ãöäú ÑóÈøößõãú ÑöÌúÓñ æóÛóÖóÈñ ÃóÊõÌóÇÏöáõæäóäöí Ýöí ÃóÓúãóÇÁò ÓóãøóíúÊõãõæåóÇ ÃóäúÊõãú æóÂóÈóÇÄõßõãú ãóÇ äóÒøóáó Çááøóåõ ÈöåóÇ ãöäú ÓõáúØóÇäò ÝóÇäúÊóÙöÑõæÇ Åöäøöí ãóÚóßõãú ãöäó ÇáúãõäúÊóÙöÑöíäó (71)<br />(7:71)<br />Åöäú åöíó ÅöáøóÇ ÃóÓúãóÇÁñ ÓóãøóíúÊõãõæåóÇ ÃóäúÊõãú æóÂóÈóÇÄõßõãú ãóÇ ÃóäúÒóáó Çááøóåõ ÈöåóÇ ãöäú ÓõáúØóÇäò Åöäú íóÊøóÈöÚõæäó ÅöáøóÇ ÇáÙøóäøó æóãóÇ Êóåúæóì ÇáúÃóäúÝõÓõ æóáóÞóÏú ÌóÇÁóåõãú ãöäú ÑóÈøöåöãõ ÇáúåõÏóì (23)<br />(53:23)<br /><br />and here is the verse that talks about '3ajaza' which is the root word of mu3jiza (surprisingly is interepreted as miracle)<br /><br />1	 áöíõÑöíóåõ&#1765; ßóíúÝó íõæó&#1648;Ñöì ÓóæúÁóÉó ÃóÎöíåö ÞóÇáó íó&#1648;æóíúáóÊóì&#1648;&#1619;	ÃóÚóÌóÒúÊõ	 Ãóäú Ãóßõæäó ãöËúáó åó&#1648;ÐóÇ &#1649;áúÛõÑóÇÈö ÝóÃõæó&#1648;Ñöìó ÓóæúÁóÉó	5:31<br />2	ÁóÇÎóÑöíäó Åöäøó ãóÇ ÊõæÚóÏõæäó áóÁóÇÊò æóãóÇ&#1619; ÃóäÊõã	ÈöãõÚúÌöÒöíäó	Þõáú íó&#1648;Þóæúãö &#1649;ÚúãóáõæÇ&#1759; Úóáóì&#1648; ãóßóÇäóÊößõãú Åöäøöì ÚóÇãöáñ	6:134<br />3	æóáóÇ íóÍúÓóÈóäøó &#1649;áøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæÇ&#1759; ÓóÈóÞõæ&#1619;Ç&#1759; Åöäøóåõãú áóÇ	íõÚúÌöÒõæäó	æóÃóÚöÏøõæÇ&#1759; áóåõã ãøóÇ &#1649;ÓúÊóØóÚúÊõã ãøöä ÞõæøóÉò æóãöä	8:59<br />4	Ýöì &#1649;áúÃóÑúÖö ÃóÑúÈóÚóÉó ÃóÔúåõÑò æó&#1649;Úúáóãõæ&#1619;Ç&#1759; Ãóäøóßõãú ÛóíúÑõ	ãõÚúÌöÒöì	&#1649;ááøóåö æóÃóäøó &#1649;ááøóåó ãõÎúÒöì &#1649;áúßó&#1648;ÝöÑöíäó æóÃóÐó&#1648;äñ ãøöäó	9:2<br />5	ÎóíúÑñ áøóßõãú æóÅöä ÊóæóáøóíúÊõãú Ýó&#1649;Úúáóãõæ&#1619;Ç&#1759; Ãóäøóßõãú ÛóíúÑõ	ãõÚúÌöÒöì	&#1649;ááøóåö æóÈóÔøöÑö &#1649;áøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæÇ&#1759; ÈöÚóÐóÇÈò Ãóáöíãò ÅöáøóÇ	9:3<br />6	Þõáú Åöì æóÑóÈøöì&#1619; Åöäøóåõ&#1765; áóÍóÞøñ æóãóÇ&#1619; ÃóäÊõã	ÈöãõÚúÌöÒöíäó	æóáóæú Ãóäøó áößõáøö äóÝúÓò ÙóáóãóÊú ãóÇ Ýöì	10:53<br />7	æóåõã Èö&#1649;áúÁóÇÎöÑóÉö åõãú ßó&#1648;ÝöÑõæäó Ãõæ&#1759;áó&#1648;&#1619;Æößó áóãú íóßõæäõæÇ&#1759;	ãõÚúÌöÒöíäó	Ýöì &#1649;áúÃóÑúÖö æóãóÇ ßóÇäó áóåõã ãøöä Ïõæäö	11:20<br />8	íóÃúÊöíßõã Èöåö &#1649;ááøóåõ Åöä ÔóÇ&#1619;Áó æóãóÇ&#1619; ÃóäÊõã	ÈöãõÚúÌöÒöíäó	æóáóÇ íóäÝóÚõßõãú äõÕúÍöì&#1619; Åöäú ÃóÑóÏÊøõ Ãóäú ÃóäÕóÍó	11:33<br />9	æóÑóÇ&#1619;Áö ÅöÓúÍó&#1648;Þó íóÚúÞõæÈó ÞóÇáóÊú íó&#1648;æóíúáóÊóì&#1648;&#1619; ÁóÃóáöÏõ æóÃóäóÇ&#1760;	ÚóÌõæÒñ	æóåó&#1648;ÐóÇ ÈóÚúáöì ÔóíúÎðÇ Åöäøó åó&#1648;ÐóÇ áóÔóìúÁñ ÚóÌöíÈñ	11:72<br />10	íóÔúÚõÑõæäó Ãóæú íóÃúÎõÐóåõãú Ýöì ÊóÞóáøõÈöåöãú ÝóãóÇ åõã	ÈöãõÚúÌöÒöíäó	Ãóæú íóÃúÎõÐóåõãú Úóáóì&#1648; ÊóÎóæøõÝò ÝóÅöäøó ÑóÈøóßõãú áóÑóÁõæÝñ	16:46<br />11	ãøóÛúÝöÑóÉñ æóÑöÒúÞñ ßóÑöíãñ æó&#1649;áøóÐöíäó ÓóÚóæúÇ&#1759; Ýöì&#1619; ÁóÇíó&#1648;ÊöäóÇ	ãõÚó&#1648;ÌöÒöíäó	Ãõæ&#1759;áó&#1648;&#1619;Æößó ÃóÕúÍó&#1648;Èõ &#1649;áúÌóÍöíãö æóãóÇ&#1619; ÃóÑúÓóáúäóÇ ãöä ÞóÈúáößó	22:51<br />12	&#1649;áÑøóÓõæáó áóÚóáøóßõãú ÊõÑúÍóãõæäó áóÇ ÊóÍúÓóÈóäøó &#1649;áøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæÇ&#1759;	ãõÚúÌöÒöíäó	Ýöì &#1649;áúÃóÑúÖö æóãóÃúæóì&#1648;åõãõ &#1649;áäøóÇÑõ æóáóÈöÆúÓó &#1649;áúãóÕöíÑõ íó&#1648;&#1619;ÃóíøõåóÇ	24:57<br />13	æóÃóåúáöì ãöãøóÇ íóÚúãóáõæäó ÝóäóÌøóíúäó&#1648;åõ æóÃóåúáóåõ&#1765;&#1619; ÃóÌúãóÚöíäó ÅöáøóÇ	ÚóÌõæÒðÇ	Ýöì &#1649;áúÛó&#1648;ÈöÑöíäó Ëõãøó ÏóãøóÑúäóÇ &#1649;áúÁóÇÎóÑöíäó æóÃóãúØóÑúäóÇ Úóáóíúåöã	26:171<br />14	æóíóÑúÍóãõ ãóä íóÔóÇ&#1619;Áõ æóÅöáóíúåö ÊõÞúáóÈõæäó æóãóÇ&#1619; ÃóäÊõã	ÈöãõÚúÌöÒöíäó	Ýöì &#1649;áúÃóÑúÖö æóáóÇ Ýöì &#1649;áÓøóãóÇ&#1619;Áö æóãóÇ áóßõã	29:22<br />15	ãøóÛúÝöÑóÉñ æóÑöÒúÞñ ßóÑöíãñ æó&#1649;áøóÐöíäó ÓóÚóæú Ýöì&#1619; ÁóÇíó&#1648;ÊöäóÇ	ãõÚó&#1648;ÌöÒöíäó	Ãõæ&#1759;áó&#1648;&#1619;Æößó áóåõãú ÚóÐóÇÈñ ãøöä ÑøöÌúÒò Ãóáöíãñ æóíóÑóì	34:5<br />16	Ýöì &#1649;áúÛõÑõÝó&#1648;Êö ÁóÇãöäõæäó æó&#1649;áøóÐöíäó íóÓúÚóæúäó Ýöì&#1619; ÁóÇíó&#1648;ÊöäóÇ	ãõÚó&#1648;ÌöÒöíäó	Ãõæ&#1759;áó&#1648;&#1619;Æößó Ýöì &#1649;áúÚóÐóÇÈö ãõÍúÖóÑõæäó Þõáú Åöäøó ÑóÈøöì	34:38<br />17	æóßóÇäõæ&#1619;Ç&#1759; ÃóÔóÏøó ãöäúåõãú ÞõæøóÉð æóãóÇ ßóÇäó &#1649;ááøóåõ	áöíõÚúÌöÒóåõ&#1765;	ãöä ÔóìúÁò Ýöì &#1649;áÓøóãó&#1648;æó&#1648;Êö æóáóÇ Ýöì &#1649;áúÃóÑúÖö	35:44<br />18	áøóãöäó &#1649;áúãõÑúÓóáöíäó ÅöÐú äóÌøóíúäó&#1648;åõ æóÃóåúáóåõ&#1765;&#1619; ÃóÌúãóÚöíäó ÅöáøóÇ	ÚóÌõæÒðÇ	Ýöì &#1649;áúÛó&#1648;ÈöÑöíäó Ëõãøó ÏóãøóÑúäóÇ &#1649;áúÁóÇÎóÑöíäó æóÅöäøóßõãú áóÊóãõÑøõæäó	37:135<br />19	åó&#1648;&#1619;ÄõáóÇ&#1619;Áö ÓóíõÕöíÈõåõãú ÓóíøöÜ&#1620;óÇÊõ ãóÇ ßóÓóÈõæÇ&#1759; æóãóÇ åõã	ÈöãõÚúÌöÒöíäó	Ãóæóáóãú íóÚúáóãõæ&#1619;Ç&#1759; Ãóäøó &#1649;ááøóåó íóÈúÓõØõ &#1649;áÑøöÒúÞó áöãóä	39:51<br />20	ßóÓóÈóÊú ÃóíúÏöíßõãú æóíóÚúÝõæÇ&#1759; Úóä ßóËöíÑò æóãóÇ&#1619; ÃóäÊõã	ÈöãõÚúÌöÒöíäó	Ýöì &#1649;áúÃóÑúÖö æóãóÇ áóßõã ãøöä Ïõæäö &#1649;ááøóåö	42:31<br />21	Ãóáöíãò æóãóä áøóÇ íõÌöÈú ÏóÇÚöìó &#1649;ááøóåö ÝóáóíúÓó	ÈöãõÚúÌöÒò	Ýöì &#1649;áúÃóÑúÖö æóáóíúÓó áóåõ&#1765; ãöä Ïõæäöåö&#1766;&#1619; ÃóæúáöíóÇ&#1619;Áõ	46:32<br />22	ÝóÃóÞúÈóáóÊö &#1649;ãúÑóÃóÊõåõ&#1765; Ýöì ÕóÑøóÉò ÝóÕóßøóÊú æóÌúåóåóÇ æóÞóÇáóÊú	ÚóÌõæÒñ	ÚóÞöíãñ ÞóÇáõæÇ&#1759; ßóÐó&#1648;áößö ÞóÇáó ÑóÈøõßö Åöäøóåõ&#1765; åõæó	51:29<br />23	Ýöì íóæúãö äóÍúÓò ãøõÓúÊóãöÑøò ÊóäÒöÚõ &#1649;áäøóÇÓó ßóÃóäøóåõãú	ÃóÚúÌóÇÒõ	äóÎúáò ãøõäÞóÚöÑò ÝóßóíúÝó ßóÇäó ÚóÐóÇÈöì æóäõÐõÑö æóáóÞóÏú	54:20<br />24	ÃóíøóÇãò ÍõÓõæãðÇ ÝóÊóÑóì &#1649;áúÞóæúãó ÝöíåóÇ ÕóÑúÚóì&#1648; ßóÃóäøóåõãú	ÃóÚúÌóÇÒõ	äóÎúáò ÎóÇæöíóÉò Ýóåóáú ÊóÑóì&#1648; áóåõã ãøöä&#1762; ÈóÇÞöíóÉò	69:7<br />25	ßõäøóÇ ØóÑóÇ&#1619;ÆöÞó ÞöÏóÏðÇ æóÃóäøóÇ ÙóäóäøóÇ&#1619; Ãóä áøóä	äøõÚúÌöÒó	&#1649;ááøóåó Ýöì &#1649;áúÃóÑúÖö æóáóä äøõÚúÌöÒóåõ&#1765; åóÑóÈðÇ æóÃóäøóÇ	72:12<br />26	Ãóä áøóä äøõÚúÌöÒó &#1649;ááøóåó Ýöì &#1649;áúÃóÑúÖö æóáóä	äøõÚúÌöÒóåõ&#1765;	åóÑóÈðÇ æóÃóäøóÇ áóãøóÇ ÓóãöÚúäóÇ &#1649;áúåõÏóì&#1648;&#1619; ÁóÇãóäøóÇ Èöåö&#1766;	72:12<br /><br /><br />There are quite a lot, but lets use these as a starter for our discussion on these misunderstood issues.<br />]]></description>
		<starter>abu3ammar</starter>
		<poster>abu3ammar</poster>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:34:20 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 08:05:43 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">731375</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>What Is Magic(si7r/ÓÍÑ), Aya(ÇíÉ), _tãÚÌÒÉ In The Quran?</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=731374</link>
		<description><![CDATA[ÈÓã Çááå ÇáÑÍãä ÇáÑÍíã<br />ÇáÓáÇã Úáì ãä ÇáÊÈÚ ÇáåÏì<br /><br />Magic(ÓÍÑ) and aya(ÇíÉ) is a subject that i believe is misunderstood by many muslims and i believe <br />that it is because our lack of understanding of this subject that caused an overwhelming damage to the current human society.<br /><br />I have so much questions pertaining this subject, but i want to keep it in the context of the quran.<br />I'm going to breifly list down the aya(verse) that talks about magic.<br /><br />1	 ßóÝóÑó Óõáóíúãó?äõ æóáó?ßöäøó ?áÔøóíó?Øöíäó ßóÝóÑõæÇ? íõÚóáøöãõæäó ?áäøóÇÓó	?áÓøöÍúÑó	 æóãóÇ? ÃõäÒöáó Úóáóì ?áúãóáóßóíúäö  ÈöÈóÇÈöáó åó?ÑõæÊó æóãó?ÑõæÊó	2:102<br />2	ÝóÞóÇáó ?áøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæÇ? ãöäúåõãú Åöäú åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ æóÅöÐú ÃóæúÍóíúÊõ Åöáóì ?áúÍóæóÇÑöíøö?äó Ãóäú ÁóÇãöäõæÇ?	5:110<br />3	ÈöÃóíúÏöíåöãú áóÞóÇáó ?áøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæ?Ç? Åöäú åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ æóÞóÇáõæÇ? áóæúáóÇ? ÃõäÒöáó Úóáóíúåö ãóáóßñ æóáóæú	6:7<br />4	ÝóáóãøóÇ? ÃóáúÞóæúÇ? ÓóÍóÑõæ?Ç? ÃóÚúíõäó ?áäøóÇÓö æó?ÓúÊóÑúåóÈõæåõãú æóÌóÇ?Áõæ	ÈöÓöÍúÑò	ÚóÙöíãò æóÃóæúÍóíúäóÇ? Åöáóì? ãõæÓóì?? Ãóäú ÃóáúÞö ÚóÕóÇßó	7:116<br />5	ÌóÇ?Áóåõãõ ?áúÍóÞøõ ãöäú ÚöäÏöäóÇ ÞóÇáõæ?Ç? Åöäøó åó?ÐóÇ	áóÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ ÞóÇáó ãõæÓóì?? ÃóÊóÞõæáõæäó áöáúÍóÞøö áóãøóÇ ÌóÇ?Áóßõãú	10:76<br />6	ãøõÈöíäñ ÞóÇáó ãõæÓóì?? ÃóÊóÞõæáõæäó áöáúÍóÞøö áóãøóÇ ÌóÇ?Áóßõãú	ÃóÓöÍúÑñ	åó?ÐóÇ æóáóÇ íõÝúáöÍõ ?áÓøó?ÍöÑõæäó ÞóÇáõæ?Ç? ÃóÌöÆúÊóäóÇ áöÊóáúÝöÊóäóÇ	10:77<br />7	ÝóáóãøóÇ? ÃóáúÞóæúÇ? ÞóÇáó ãõæÓóì? ãóÇ ÌöÆúÊõã Èöåö	?áÓøöÍúÑõ	Åöäøó ?ááøóåó ÓóíõÈúØöáõåõ?? Åöäøó ?ááøóåó áóÇ íõÕúáöÍõ	10:81<br />8	?áúãóæúÊö áóíóÞõæáóäøó ?áøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæ?Ç? Åöäú åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ æóáóÆöäú ÃóÎøóÑúäóÇ Úóäúåõãõ ?áúÚóÐóÇÈó Åöáóì?? ÃõãøóÉò	11:7<br />9	ÝóßóÐøóÈó æóÃóÈóì? ÞóÇáó ÃóÌöÆúÊóäóÇ áöÊõÎúÑöÌóäóÇ ãöäú ÃóÑúÖöäóÇ	ÈöÓöÍúÑößó	íó?ãõæÓóì? ÝóáóäóÃúÊöíóäøóßó ÈöÓöÍúÑò ãøöËúáöåö? Ýó?ÌúÚóáú ÈóíúäóäóÇ æóÈóíúäóßó	20:57<br />10	ÃóÌöÆúÊóäóÇ áöÊõÎúÑöÌóäóÇ ãöäú ÃóÑúÖöäóÇ ÈöÓöÍúÑößó íó?ãõæÓóì? ÝóáóäóÃúÊöíóäøóßó	ÈöÓöÍúÑò	ãøöËúáöåö? Ýó?ÌúÚóáú ÈóíúäóäóÇ æóÈóíúäóßó ãóæúÚöÏðÇ áøóÇ äõÎúáöÝõåõ?	20:58<br />11	åó?Ðó?äö áóÓó?ÍöÑó?äö íõÑöíÏóÇäö Ãóä íõÎúÑöÌóÇßõã ãøöäú ÃóÑúÖößõã	ÈöÓöÍúÑöåöãóÇ	æóíóÐúåóÈóÇ ÈöØóÑöíÞóÊößõãõ ?áúãõËúáóì? ÝóÃóÌúãöÚõæÇ? ßóíúÏóßõãú Ëõãøó ?ÆúÊõæÇ?	20:63<br />12	ÃóáúÞõæÇ? ÝóÅöÐóÇ ÍöÈóÇáõåõãú æóÚöÕöíøõåõãú íõÎóíøóáõ Åöáóíúåö ãöä	ÓöÍúÑöåöãú	ÃóäøóåóÇ ÊóÓúÚóì? ÝóÃóæúÌóÓó Ýöì äóÝúÓöåö? ÎöíÝóÉð ãøõæÓóì?	20:66<br />13	Ãóäú ÁóÇÐóäó áóßõãú Åöäøóåõ? áóßóÈöíÑõßõãõ ?áøóÐöì Úóáøóãóßõãõ	?áÓøöÍúÑó	ÝóáóÃõÞóØøöÚóäøó ÃóíúÏöíóßõãú æóÃóÑúÌõáóßõã ãøöäú Îöáó?Ýò æóáóÃõÕóáøöÈóäøóßõãú Ýöì	20:71<br />14	áöíóÛúÝöÑó áóäóÇ ÎóØó?íó?äóÇ æóãóÇ? ÃóßúÑóåúÊóäóÇ Úóáóíúåö ãöäó	?áÓøöÍúÑö	æó?ááøóåõ ÎóíúÑñ æóÃóÈúÞóì?? Åöäøóåõ? ãóä íóÃúÊö ÑóÈøóåõ?	20:73<br />15	ÙóáóãõæÇ? åóáú åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ ÈóÔóÑñ ãøöËúáõßõãú ÃóÝóÊóÃúÊõæäó	?áÓøöÍúÑó	æóÃóäÊõãú ÊõÈúÕöÑõæäó ÞóÇáó ÑóÈøöì íóÚúáóãõ ?áúÞóæúáó Ýöì	21:3<br />16	?áøóÐöì ÎóáóÞó ãöäó ?áúãóÇ?Áö ÈóÔóÑðÇ ÝóÌóÚóáóåõ? äóÓóÈðÇ	æóÕöåúÑðÇ	æóßóÇäó ÑóÈøõßó ÞóÏöíÑðÇ æóíóÚúÈõÏõæäó ãöä Ïõæäö ?ááøóåö	25:54<br />17	áóÓó?ÍöÑñ Úóáöíãñ íõÑöíÏõ Ãóä íõÎúÑöÌóßõã ãøöäú ÃóÑúÖößõã	ÈöÓöÍúÑöåö?	ÝóãóÇÐóÇ ÊóÃúãõÑõæäó ÞóÇáõæ?Ç? ÃóÑúÌöåú æóÃóÎóÇåõ æó?ÈúÚóËú Ýöì	26:35<br />18	Ãóäú ÁóÇÐóäó áóßõãú Åöäøóåõ? áóßóÈöíÑõßõãõ ?áøóÐöì Úóáøóãóßõãõ	?áÓøöÍúÑó	ÝóáóÓóæúÝó ÊóÚúáóãõæäó áóÃõÞóØøöÚóäøó ÃóíúÏöíóßõãú æóÃóÑúÌõáóßõã ãøöäú Îöáó?Ýò	26:49<br />19	Ýó?ÓöÞöíäó ÝóáóãøóÇ ÌóÇ?ÁóÊúåõãú ÁóÇíó?ÊõäóÇ ãõÈúÕöÑóÉð ÞóÇáõæÇ? åó?ÐóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ æóÌóÍóÏõæÇ? ÈöåóÇ æó?ÓúÊóíúÞóäóÊúåóÇ? ÃóäÝõÓõåõãú ÙõáúãðÇ æóÚõáõæøðÇ	27:13<br />20	ãøõæÓóì? ÈöÜ?óÇíó?ÊöäóÇ Èóíøöäó?Êò ÞóÇáõæÇ? ãóÇ åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÝúÊóÑðì æóãóÇ ÓóãöÚúäóÇ Èöåó?ÐóÇ Ýöì? ÁóÇÈóÇ?ÆöäóÇ ?áúÃóæøóáöíäó	28:36<br />21	íóßúÝõÑõæÇ? ÈöãóÇ? ÃõæÊöìó ãõæÓóì? ãöä ÞóÈúáõ ÞóÇáõæÇ?	ÓöÍúÑóÇäö	ÊóÙó?åóÑóÇ æóÞóÇáõæ?Ç? ÅöäøóÇ Èößõáøò ßó?ÝöÑõæäó Þõáú ÝóÃúÊõæÇ?	28:48<br />22	ßóÝóÑõæÇ? áöáúÍóÞøö áóãøóÇ ÌóÇ?Áóåõãú Åöäú åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ æóãóÇ? ÁóÇÊóíúäó?åõã ãøöä ßõÊõÈò íóÏúÑõÓõæäóåóÇ æóãóÇ?	34:43<br />23	ÑóÃóæúÇ? ÁóÇíóÉð íóÓúÊóÓúÎöÑõæäó æóÞóÇáõæ?Ç? Åöäú åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ ÃóÁöÐóÇ ãöÊúäóÇ æóßõäøóÇ ÊõÑóÇÈðÇ æóÚöÙó?ãðÇ ÃóÁöäøóÇ	37:15<br />24	æóÑóÓõæáñ ãøõÈöíäñ æóáóãøóÇ ÌóÇ?Áóåõãõ ?áúÍóÞøõ ÞóÇáõæÇ? åó?ÐóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	æóÅöäøóÇ Èöåö? ßó?ÝöÑõæäó æóÞóÇáõæÇ? áóæúáóÇ äõÒøöáó åó?ÐóÇ	43:30<br />25	ÞóÇáó ?áøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæÇ? áöáúÍóÞøö áóãøóÇ ÌóÇ?Áóåõãú åó?ÐóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ Ãóãú íóÞõæáõæäó ?ÝúÊóÑóì?åõ Þõáú Åöäö ?ÝúÊóÑóíúÊõåõ?	46:7<br />26	ÏóÚøðÇ åó?Ðöåö ?áäøóÇÑõ ?áøóÊöì ßõäÊõã ÈöåóÇ ÊõßóÐøöÈõæäó	ÃóÝóÓöÍúÑñ	åó?ÐóÇ? Ãóãú ÃóäÊõãú áóÇ ÊõÈúÕöÑõæäó ?ÕúáóæúåóÇ Ýó?ÕúÈöÑõæ?Ç?	52:15<br />27	æó?äÔóÞøó ?áúÞóãóÑõ æóÅöä íóÑóæúÇ? ÁóÇíóÉð íõÚúÑöÖõæÇ? æóíóÞõæáõæÇ?	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÓúÊóãöÑøñ æóßóÐøóÈõæÇ? æó?ÊøóÈóÚõæ?Ç? ÃóåúæóÇ?Áóåõãú æóßõáøõ ÃóãúÑò ãøõÓúÊóÞöÑøñ	54:2<br />28	?Óúãõåõ?? ÃóÍúãóÏõ ÝóáóãøóÇ ÌóÇ?Áóåõã Èö?áúÈóíøöäó?Êö ÞóÇáõæÇ? åó?ÐóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	ãøõÈöíäñ æóãóäú ÃóÙúáóãõ ãöãøóäö ?ÝúÊóÑóì? Úóáóì ?ááøóåö	61:6<br />29	Ëõãøó ÃóÏúÈóÑó æó?ÓúÊóßúÈóÑó ÝóÞóÇáó Åöäú åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ	ÓöÍúÑñ	íõÄúËóÑõ Åöäú åó?ÐóÇ? ÅöáøóÇ Þóæúáõ ?áúÈóÔóÑö ÓóÃõÕúáöíåö	74:24<br /><br />and the aya that talks about well.. aya <img src="http://www.gawaher.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> is quite a hand full of them,  <br />but i'm going to point out on some distintic ones:<br /> ÇáøóÐöíäó íõÌóÇÏöáõæäó Ýöí ÂóíóÇÊö Çááøóåö ÈöÛóíúÑö ÓõáúØóÇäò ÃóÊóÇåõãú ßóÈõÑó ãóÞúÊðÇ ÚöäúÏó Çááøóåö æóÚöäúÏó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÂóãóäõæÇ ßóÐóáößó íóØúÈóÚõ Çááøóåõ Úóáóì ßõáøö ÞóáúÈö ãõÊóßóÈøöÑò ÌóÈøóÇÑò (40:35)<br />Åöäøó ÇáøóÐöíäó íõÌóÇÏöáõæäó Ýöí ÂóíóÇÊö Çááøóåö ÈöÛóíúÑö ÓõáúØóÇäò ÃóÊóÇåõãú Åöäú Ýöí ÕõÏõæÑöåöãú ÅöáøóÇ ßöÈúÑñ ãóÇ åõãú ÈöÈóÇáöÛöíåö ÝóÇÓúÊóÚöÐú ÈöÇááøóåö Åöäøóåõ åõæó ÇáÓøóãöíÚõ ÇáúÈóÕöíÑõ (56)<br />æóÝöí ÎóáúÞößõãú æóãóÇ íóÈõËøõ ãöäú ÏóÇÈøóÉò ÂóíóÇÊñ áöÞóæúãò íõæÞöäõæäó (4) æóÇÎúÊöáóÇÝö Çááøóíúáö æóÇáäøóåóÇÑö æóãóÇ ÃóäúÒóáó Çááøóåõ ãöäó ÇáÓøóãóÇÁö ãöäú ÑöÒúÞò ÝóÃóÍúíóÇ Èöåö ÇáúÃóÑúÖó ÈóÚúÏó ãóæúÊöåóÇ æóÊóÕúÑöíÝö ÇáÑøöíóÇÍö ÂóíóÇÊñ áöÞóæúãò íóÚúÞöáõæäó (5) Êöáúßó ÂóíóÇÊõ Çááøóåö äóÊúáõæåóÇ Úóáóíúßó ÈöÇáúÍóÞøö ÝóÈöÃóíøö ÍóÏöíËò ÈóÚúÏó Çááøóåö æóÂóíóÇÊöåö íõÄúãöäõæäó (6)<br />((Q 41:4-6)<br />]]></description>
		<starter>abu3ammar</starter>
		<poster>abu3ammar</poster>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:09:27 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 06:07:22 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">731374</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Hijamah In London</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=731295</link>
		<description><![CDATA["I did not pass by any group on the night of Al Isra (night ascension), except that they said to me, 'Oh Muhammad, tell your Ummah to do Hijamah.'" Ibn Majah, 3477<br /><br />Assalaam Alaikum<br /><br />Dear Brothers and Sisters we perform Hijamah and we are based in London.<br />This is a sunnah practice and is used to maintain general well being.<br />It also treats illnesses from hair loss to diabetes, weight loss, arthriris and back pain.<br />We also have trained women for female patients.<br />Also provide ruqiyah.<br />Provide home visits aswell throughout the country.<br /><br />Contact me on 07912862449<br />cupping2010[at]live.co.uk<br /><br />]]></description>
		<starter>cupping2010</starter>
		<poster>cupping2010</poster>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 08:58:51 -0600</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 08:58:51 -0600</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">731295</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>The Five Essential Conditions For Protein Formation</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=729589</link>
		<description><![CDATA[In order for a single protein to form, five separate conditions that demolish the very foundations of Darwinists’ theories need to be met simultaneously: <br /><br />1st condition: <br /><br />There are more than 200 amino acids in nature. Only 20 specific amino acids need to be selected in order for proteins to form. If any other amino acid apart from these 20 enters the equation, no protein will result. <br /><br />2nd condition:<br /> <br />Following the selection of these special 20 amino acids, it is essential they be set out in a specific sequence.  Even if all the conditions are completely fulfilled, just a single amino acid being in the wrong sequence will prevent protein forming. <br /><br />3rd condition: <br /><br />The amino acids constituting protein all have to be left-handed.  <br /><br />•    Although right- and left-handed amino acids have all the same characteristics, they are mirror images of one anther, like right- and left-handed gloves.   <br /><br />•    There is not a single right-handed amino acid in living structures.<br /><br />•    If just one right-handed amino acid enters the equation, that protein will be incapable of being used. <br /><br />•    The probability of a small protein being formed from left-handed amino acids alone is 1 in 10210. <br /><br />The well-known chemist Walter T. Brown makes this statement on the subject: <br /><br /><br />… the amino acids that comprise the proteins found in living things, including plants, animals, bacteria, molds, and even viruses, are essentially all left-handed. No known natural process can isolate either the left- or the right-handed variety. The mathematical probability that chance processes could produce just one tiny protein molecule with only left-handed amino acids is virtually zero.1<br /><br /><br />4th condition:<br /><br />Amino acids are bound by "peptide bonds" alone. <br /><br />-    As scientists discovered amino acids, they established that the amino acids constituting proteins were connected in a very interesting, different way to that observed in nature. That bond is a special chemical one known as the  peptide bond. <br /><br />-    The atoms in molecules are generally connected together by covalent bonds, Only amino acids are bound together by special peptide bonds. <br /><br />-    Peptide bonds can only be dissolved at high temperature, or prolonged exposure to powerful acids or alkalis. It is these peptide bonds that make proteins very strong and resistant. <br /><br />5th condition: <br /><br />•    The amino acid sequence that needs to take place in order for a protein to form has to be linear. <br /><br />•    In other words, the amino acid chain that takes place must not be a structure that branches out and develops lateral chains, but has to have a straight structure with amino acids following on one from the other. <br /><br />•    Sydney Fox conducted an experiment using amino acids to try to produce protein. He heated dry amino acid compounds in an atmosphere of nitrogen at 160-180 degrees for several hours. <br /><br />•    Amino acids bound to one another, but not in a linear manner. They were not connected by peptide bonds and branched out rather than being linear.   <br /><br />•    Fox called these proteinoids, though they were in reality nothing more that irregular strings with nothing to do with proteins or life.   <br /><br />•    These sequences made the existing amino acids used in the experiment non-functional.  <br />   <br />•    The experiment in question was invalid in many other respects. You can obtain detailed information about this here. <br /><br />All of the preconditions listed above have to be fully met in order for a single protein to form. And the probability of all these conditions being met and giving rise<br />to a single protein is ONE IN 10950. <br /><br />_______________________<br /><br />1. Walter T. Brown, In the Beginning (1989), p. 8 <br /> <br />]]></description>
		<starter>umutgedikli</starter>
		<poster>wattle</poster>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:13:32 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 16:32:05 -0600</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">729589</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title><![CDATA[Darwinists' Great Shame Over Their Claims Of Chance]]></title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=729588</link>
		<description><![CDATA[Darwinists taking part in the program Sansursuz, broadcast on the Haberturk channel on 14 August, 2009, resorted to the most familiar Darwinist tactic of recent times and attempted to retract their claims of chance.   <br /><br />Having claimed, ever since the time of Darwin, that chance was the only force responsible for all of life, Darwinists have recently performed an abrupt U-turn and changed their position, saying that they never meant to refer to chance at all. The reason for this is that the entire world has now realized the illogicality of chance and that Darwinists have just been embarrassing themselves because of it. <br /><br />They therefore began producing new terms, hiding behind such concepts as “let us say random rather than chance.” In the light of these claims, THEY IMAGINE THEY CAN SAVE THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION, an unconscious process based on the unconscious activity of totally unconscious atoms, THROUGH FALSE NAMES AND NOVEL TERMS THAT IN FACT MEAN EXACTLY THE SAME THING. <br /><br />Darwinists’ tactic of reinventing the subject of “chance” is the same as reinventing the subject of the “ape forebear.” Darwinism is a heretical belief that denies creation, the Creator (surely Allah is beyond that) and therefore the conscious, the intelligence and the design in living things, and that thus ascribes everything to blind chance and random, haphazard and uncontrolled phenomena.  Despite Darwinism having no other definition, despite all Darwinists’ accounts being based on chance and despite their explicit discussions of chance in all their publications, they still now say, “we did not really refer to chance at all.”  This is just chance by another name. <br /><br />In the same way that Darwinists have tried to change the name of the “ape ancestor,” they are now trying to change the name of chance. They knew the humiliating position they put themselves in when they said “we are descended from apes,” and also know how it belittles them to say that things “happened by chance.”  They are therefore trying to change the name of this nonsense and are claiming “we never referred to chance.” When asked “so did a conscious entity do it all?” they still say, “No.” And when one asks them “Were all events under the control of a consciousness, a mind?” they again say, “No.” <br /><br />THIS IS A DECEPTION. A thing either exists, or it does not. There is either a plate on the table, or there is not. There is no third possibility. Darwinists must therefore put an end to all their demagoguery. All humanity is watching, in a state of utter astonishment, the way they degrade themselves by turning up such an infantile dead-end. <br />]]></description>
		<starter>umutgedikli</starter>
		<poster>wattle</poster>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:05:09 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:48:25 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">729588</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Darwinists, Fire At Will!</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=729587</link>
		<description><![CDATA[Darwinists have recently been chasing around after fossils discovered decades ago. They keep looking for fossils that “they can suggest as transitional forms.” First, they trumpeted the fossil Ida, discovered in 1983, as the eighth wonder of the world. When this resulted in a fiasco they quickly retracted all their claims about Ida. The new star of the show is ARDI. <br /> <br />ARDI (Ardipithecus ramidus), discovered in 1994, was recently heralded as a glorious discovery 15 years later. Darwinists again claimed that they had discovered that long sought after and fictitious missing link. The Darwinist press went straight to work. Within a few days there was almost nowhere that the name ARDI could not be seen. The same deceptive techniques for the last 150 years were used. Darwinist propaganda functioned totally as planned and everything was conducted according to the rules of the Darwinist dictatorship. <br /> <br />It was first claimed that the life form was a perfect missing ink. They said “It walked upright, despite being 4.4 million years old.” Robot drawings were produced, and these were then animated in a computer environment. The image of an ape walking upright with sure steps appeared in all Darwinist publications. The visual part of the propaganda was complete. All that remained was demagoguery. And since Darwinists were well acquainted with demagoguery, that was soon resolved. The techniques of Darwinist propaganda had been applied with no interruptions. <br /> <br />The only thing that Darwinists had failed to include in their calculations was that this ruse would inevitably be exposed. The field was not empty as it had been before. They never imagined that the ARDI deception would inevitably emerge into the light of day. <br />DR. OKTAR BABUNA EXPLAINS THE ARDI FOSSIL DECEPTION LIVE ON AL JAZEERA TV <br />(October 3, 2009) <br /><br />As with All Their Transitional Fossil Tales, Darwinists Are Deceiving People with Regard to ARDI: <br /><br /><br />As we have already made clear many times before, Darwinists use the following technique when it comes to the fictitious evolution of man: they take an extinct gorilla or chimpanzee. That is easy for Darwinists because only 120 OUT OF THE 6000 APE SPECIES THAT ONCE EXISTED ARE STILL ALIVE TODAY. In other words, the fossil remains from 5880 ape species are perfect tools for Darwinist speculation. Darwinists generally invent highly primitive scenarios using these fossils, making claims such as “all right, it is a monkey, but its thumb is bent and the soles of its feet are curved, meaning it is turning into a human being.” The scenario is totally illogical, but these illogical accounts may appear quite convincing to people with no knowledge of the subject when published in world famous Darwinist publications, when adorned with scientific terminology nobody can comprehend, and when those who espouse them are professors blindly devoted to Darwinism, in other words, when a lie is repeated over and over again. Darwinists thus take advantage of people’s lack of knowledge, the influence of the media and propaganda techniques, and have been engaged in this base strategy for many years now. <br /> <br />In the case of ARDI, Darwinists produced an identical copy of the BONOBO rather than an extinct species. And they said, “all right, it is an ape, but it stands upright!” Darwinists are deceiving people with this claim. They have found the firing range empty and are free to fire at will. <br /> <br /><br />ARDI<br /> <br />The Idea that ARDI Walked Upright Is a Terrible Deception: <br /><br /><br />Found in 1994, the fossil skeleton was broken up when first discovered. So much so that when paleontologists first picked up the fossilized bone fragments they were highly brittle. Paleontologists investigating the fossil said, from pictures taken when it was first discovered, that the pelvis in particular looked like a stew and that the bones would need “reconstruction” millimeter by millimeter. In line with that decision, Darwinists took millimetric fragments of uncertain shape and constructed the kind of pelvis they wanted out of them. <br /> <br />A living thing’s posture is a complex issue that can be determined through the structure of the pelvis and the ratios between various other structures in the body. In order for an upright posture to be established, the pelvic bone has to be examined with millimetric and certain measurements, and the angles between the pelvic bone, the femur and the knee bones have to be determined using an exact and very fine calculation. <br /> <br />It is impossible for the delicate calculations in question to be made in this fossil, more than half of which was missing and whose pelvis had been totally reconstructed. It is very easy, however, for the fossil to be set out in such a way as to show its owner walking upright. <br /> <br />Any paleontologist can arrange the fragments in question and then interpret the resulting new fossil as he or she wishes. This was noted in an article about ARDI in Time magazine:  <br />“Indeed, looking at the evidence, different paleoanthropologists may have different interpretations of how Ardi moved...” [1] <br />In addition, ARDI’s well preserved foot structure totally repudiates Darwinists on the subject. The inward-pointing big toe on ARDI’s feet and the lack of arched feet that human beings have are some of the clearest proofs that this life form did not walk upright. The BBC web site said in a report on ARDI that on the basis of the evidence in question “she could not walk or run for long distances.” [2] A report on the National Geographic web site said that “Ardi would have walked on her palms as she moved about in the trees.” [3]<br /> <br />Darwinists selected a fossil to speculate on 15 years after its discovery. The fossil subjected to that speculation must be one that fully supports the scenario of upright gait on which Darwinists have pinned their hopes. And since there is no available transitional fossil, the ideal subject for speculation, for Darwinists, is a FRAGMENTED fossil. <br /> <br />That is what ARDI made possible for Darwinists: They took the fragmented fossil, arranged it as they chose and engaged in such speculation as they wished. And that is how Darwinist deception works. <br /> <br />Why 15 Years Later?<br /><br /><br />Because Darwinists realized they had been routed. The last few years in particular have been a time when Darwinists have suffered a great and very powerful collapse. The techniques of Darwinist deception have been exposed, the absence of any transitional fossils has been made clear, and Darwinist frauds have been unmasked. But most important of all, 250 MILLION FOSSILS THAT ALL PROVE CREATION HAVE EMERGED. The Atlas of Creation has dealt Darwinists the heaviest blow of all. Today there is no-one, Darwinist included, who is unaware THAT NOT A SINGLE TRANSITIONAL FOSSIL EXISTS. Darwinists are therefore in a state of stunned shock. <br /> <br />As a result of that great shock, they are frantically looking for a way out, pulling fossils of PERFECT LIFE FORMS DATING BACK 15-20 years from their drawers and writing tall tales about them. This Darwinist wriggling is the clearest sign of the rout they have suffered. The nonsense produced on the basis of an ordinary fossil ape or lemur also documents that fact. But the fact is that the theory of evolution requires the existence not of 1, 3 or a dozen TRANSITIONAL FOSSILS, BUT OF BILLIONS. BUT THERE EXISTS NOT ONE TRANSITIONAL FOSSIL, let alone billions. The reason for this nonsense being peddled by Darwinists is their defeat and state of despair. <br /><br /><br />[1] Michael D. Lemonick and Andrea Dorfman, "Excavating Ardi: A New Piece for the Puzzle of Human Evolution," Time magazine (October 1, 2009).<br />[2] <a href="you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8285180.stm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8285180.stm</a><br />[3] Jamie Shreeve, “Oldest Skeleton of Human Ancestor Found,” National Geographic magazine (October 1, 2009).<br /> <br />]]></description>
		<starter>umutgedikli</starter>
		<poster>wattle</poster>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:00:55 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:51:16 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">729587</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>What Darwinist Said, What Happened Then</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=729537</link>
		<description><![CDATA[<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->WHAT DARWINISTS SAID, WHAT HAPPENED THEN<br /><br />Darwinists come up with a sensational claim to deceive public, and when it comes out that it is fake, they remain utterly silent about it and seek another hoax. Here are some of the sensations and confessions of forgery in Darwinists’ own words: <br /><br />Piltdown Man: <br />What They Said: <br />During his visit to British Museum in 1935, H. F. Osborn, the renown American paleoantropologist, said: " …Nature is full of paradoxes…[this is] a discovery of transcendant importance to the prehistory of " (Stephen Jay Gould, "Smith Woodward's Folly", New Scientist, April 5, 1979, p. 44.) <br /><br />What Happened: <br />Le Gros Clark, a member of the crew who unveiled the hoax said:  " The evidences of artificial abrasion immediately sprang to the eye. Indeed so obvious did they seem it may well be asked-how was it that they had escaped notice before?" (Stephen Jay Gould, "Smith Woodward's Folly", New Scientist, April 5, 1979, p. 44.)<br /><br />F. Clark Howell “Piltdown was discovered in 1953 to have been nothing more than an ape’s jaw placed with a human skull. It was a hoax placed on purpose. They recognized neither the jaw to be an ape’s or the skull to be a human’s. Instead, they declared each part as [from] an in-between [species] of ape and human. They dated it to be 500,000 years old, gave it a name (Eoanthropus Dawsoni or “Dawson’s Dawn Man”), and wrote some 500 books on it. The “discovery” fooled paleontologists for forty-five years.” (Howell, F. Clark, Early Man, NY: Time Life Books, 1973, p.24-25) <br /><br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Nebraska Man: <br />What They Said: <br />“Nebraska's Ape man of the western world,” (The New York Times, Sept. 17, sect. 7, p. 1, 1924)<br /><br />What Happened: <br />Nebraska ape tooth proved a wild pig's. (The New York Times, Feb. 20, p. 1)<br />"Hesperopithecus (The Nebraska Man) dethroned"  (The Times (London), Feb. 21, p. 16)<br /><br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Coelacanth: <br />What They Said: <br />Darwinists said it was an extinct transitional form from sea to land with lungs and feet that were about to form. <br /><br />What Happened: <br />“With the discovery of Latimeria (Coelacanth), it was hoped that direct information regarding transition from fish to amphibians could be gathered... However examinations carried out on Latimeria’s anatomy and physiology revealed that this presumption of relation consisted only of a wishful thinking and that depiction of Coelacanth as a “lost ring” had no basis at all. <br /><br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Lucy: <br />What They Said: <br />Darwinist Berhane Asfaw from California University said: “We just found the chain of evolution, the continuity through time.”<br />“One form evolved to another. This is evidence of evolution in one place through time.” <br /><br />What Happened: <br />On May 1999 Science et Vie put Lucy on its cover. The following quotation is from the article, "Adieu Lucy": “…that apes of the species Australopithecus did not represent the origin of man.” <br /><br />Albert W. Mehlert (evolutionist and paleoanthropology researcher:): “The evidence given above makes it overwhelmingly likely that Lucy was no more than a variety of pygmy chimpanzee, and walked the same way (awkwardly upright on occasions, but mostly quadrupedal). The “evidence” for the alleged transformation from ape to man is extremely unconvincing.”<br /><br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Ida: <br /><br />What They Said: <br />Science Daily: “extraordinary”. <br />Sky News: “eighth wonder of the world” <br />Darwinist David Attenborough: “The link they would have said until now is missing ... it is no longer missing.”<br /><br />What Happened: <br />Darwinist Elwyn Simons from Duke University:<br />“It’s absurd and dangerous.” “This is all bad science... Darwinius is a wonderful fossil, but IT IS NOT A MISSING LINK OF ANY KIND. IT REPRESENTS A DEAD END IN EVOLUTION.”<br /><br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Haeckel’s embryo drawings: <br />What They Said: <br />Haeckel: Being evolved from its ancestors’ long and slow paleontological developments, during its rapid evolution an individual repeats the most important changes in terms of shape. <br /><br />What Happened: <br />Haeckel’s confession of his own forgery: “After this compromising confession of "forgery" I should be obliged to consider myself condemned and annihilated if I had not the consolation of seeing side by side with me in the prisoner's dock hundreds of fellow-culprits, among them many of the most trusted observers and most esteemed biologists. The great majority of all the diagrams in the best biological textbooks, treatises and journals would incur in the same degree the charge of "forgery," for all of them are inexact, and are more or less doctored, schematised and constructed (Francis Hitching, The Neck of the Giraffe: Where Darwin Went Wrong, New York: Ticknor and Fields 1982, p.204)  <br /><br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Horse Series: <br />What They Said: <br />Darwinist Bruce J. McFadden said horse fossils have been beneficial in understanding evolution. <br /><br />Darwinist W. D. Matthew said the geological record of horse’s relatives is one of the classical examples of evolution. (W. D. Matthew The Evolution of the Horse: A Record and Its Interpretation”, The Quarterly Review of Biology, 1(2):139-185.)<br /><br />What Happened: <br />Evolutionist Boyce Rensberger: The popularly told example of horse evolution, suggesting a gradual sequence of changes from four-toed fox-sized creatures living nearly 50 million years ago to today's much larger one-toed horse, has long been known to be wrong. Instead of gradual change, fossils of each intermediate species appear fully distinct, persist unchanged, and then become extinct. Transitional forms are unknown. <br /><br />Evolutionist paleontologist Dr. Colin Patterson (one of the executives of the British Natural History Museum): There have been an awful lot of stories, some more imaginative than others, about what the nature of that history [of life] really is. The most famous example, still on exhibit downstairs, is the exhibit on horse evolution prepared perhaps fifty years ago. That has been presented as the literal truth in textbook after textbook. Now I think that is lamentable, particularly when the people who propose those kinds of stories may themselves be aware of the speculative nature of some of that stuff<br /><br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Archaeopteryx: <br />What They Said: <br />Pat Shipman: [Archaeopteryx] more than the world’s most beautiful fossil…it is] an icon- a holy relic of the past that has become a powerful symbol of the evolutionary process itself. (Jonathan Wells, Icons of Evolution)<br /><br />What Happened: <br />Science: “Archaeopteryx probably cannot tell us much about the early origins of feathers and flight in true protobirds because Archaeopteryx was, in a modern sense, a bird.”  (Hank Hanegraaff, Fatal Flaws "What Evolutionists Don't Want You To Know", W Publishing Group, 2003 p. 19)<br /><br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Industrial Melanism<br />What They Said: <br />Michael E. N. Majerus: “the most famous example of evolution in action...”<br /><br />What Happened: <br />A quotation from the Daily Telegraph in 1999: “Evolution experts are quietly admitting that one of their most cherished examples of Darwin's theory, the rise and fall of the peppered moth, is based on a series of scientific blunders.” <br /><br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Homo Floresiensis (Flores Man – Hobbit):<br />What They Said: <br />BBC: Australian archaeologists unearthed the bones while digging at a site called Liang Bua, one of numerous limestone caves on Flores. The remains of the partial skeleton were found at a depth of 5.9m (19ft).  <br />The bones unearthed by Australian scientists in the Liang Bua province excavations opens a new era in the history of archaeology. The examinations made on tooth, coccyx and skull revealed that the living being was no different than human beings and walked upright. This new living being (Homo floresiensis) was named after the island (Flores island) where the skeleton was found. <br /><br />What Happened: <br />It came out that these remains belonged to deformed individuals of Homo sapiens. <br /><br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Neanderthals:<br />What They Said: <br />Darwinists claimed that Neanderthals were a more primitive human race. <br /><br />What Happened: <br />Erik Trinkaus: “Detailed comparisons of Neanderthal skeletal remains with those of modern humans have shown that there is nothing in Neanderthal anatomy that conclusively indicates locomotor, manipulative, intellectual, or linguistic abilities inferior to those of modern humans.” (Erik Trinkaus, "Hard Times Among the Neanderthals," Natural History, vol. 87, December 1978, p. 10; R. L. Holloway, "The Neanderthal Brain: What Was Primitive," American Journal of Physical Anthropology Supplement, vol. 12, 1991, p. 94. ) <br /><br />“What was considered a major piece of evidence showing that the Neanderthals once lived in northern Europe has fallen by the wayside. We are having to rewrite prehistory.” (Tony Paterson, “Neanderthal Man ‘never walked in northern Europe”, 22 August 2004)<br /><br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Dino-bird (Archeaoraptor) <br />What They Said: <br />Christopher P. Sloan, a National Geographic writer said: "We can now say that birds are theropods just as confidently as we say that humans are mammals." <br /><br />What Happened: <br />Alan Feduccia: Archaeoraptor is just the tip of the iceberg. There are scores of fake fossils out there, and they have cast a dark shadow over the whole field. When you go to these fossil shows, it's difficult to tell which ones are fake and which ones are not. I have heard there is a fake-fossil factory in northeast China, in Liaoning Province, near the deposits where many of these recent alleged feather dinosaurs were found.  Journals like Nature don't require specimens to be authenticated, and the specimens immediately end up back in China, so nobody can examine them. (Discover, February, 2003) <br /><br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Junk DNA <br />What They Said: <br />Prof. Beyaz&#305;t &Ccedil;&#305;rako&#287;lu: "It is thought that these DNA sequences are no-longer-used junk DNA sequences.” <br /><br />What Happened: <br />Evan Eichler, an evolutionist scientist from Washington University " The term ‘junk DNA’ is a reflection of our ignorance."<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->]]></description>
		<starter>umutgedikli</starter>
		<poster>wattle</poster>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:43:20 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:12:21 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">729537</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Why Do Darwinist Not Give Up?</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=729535</link>
		<description><![CDATA[<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Darwinism is the worst mass deception in the history of the world. This false theory, launched with a false use of science, is supported by not a single piece of scientific evidence. But this deception has still been disseminated across the world, using false fossils and intense demagoguery, and has entered school books and is taught as a compulsory course in universities.  Propaganda for this deception has been carried in the world’s best-known scientific journals and other publications, as if it were an established fact. This is a result of the systematic activity of the Darwinist dictatorship that has ruled the world for the last 150 years. The Darwinist dictatorship uses this technique to wear people down:  <br /><br />A scientist studies for years, works very hard, makes sacrifices and eventually becomes an expert filled with whole volumes-worth of knowledge. One subject has been taught for decades in the best schools, and it is essential he believe in this if he is to become a “scientist:” Evolution. From an early age he has seen pictures of imaginary ape-like ancestors of human beings, looking at pictures of hoax skulls, he imagined he was descended from those creatures and believed, on the basis of false fossil images, that living things descended from one another in stages. He was told that “there is evidence of evolution” and new pictures were placed before him. Odd-looking beings about to step from water onto dry land, or a strange dinosaur about to take off in flight were put before him as evidence of this imaginary transition. He never even thought of seeing real fossils belonging to these fictitious transitional creatures. He never wondered why Darwinists have never come up with even a single intermediate form fossil, why there have only ever resorted to hoaxes or why they kept genuine fossils hidden away. Because throughout the course of his education he was indoctrinated with a single idea, “belief in evolution is obligatory, and all ideas opposed to it must be rejected.”<br /><br />In time, this person will realize that he should not oppose Darwinism. He will see that the Darwinist dictatorship holds sway all around him; later, he will even learn that this rotten Darwinist dictatorship rules the whole world and enjoys the backing of the states in it. It will dawn on him that those people choosing to make a stand against Darwinism have been intimidated or removed from their posts, and that his teachers have taught him nothing but Darwinism. And he will realize that even if he has come to believe that Darwinism is a fraud, it is essential that he never question it. Because if he wants to be a scientist, he must do what the Darwinist dictatorship says.<br /><br /><br />When he becomes a scientist and attains expert status, when he is praised by scientific circles, constantly keeps his name in the scientific journals, is invited to attend conferences, discussion panels and congresses, is supported by one and all and has made a really good career, he will also think that some things are very difficult. He will of course have realized that Darwinism is a deviant theory, that it is supported by no scientific evidence whatsoever and is a pagan religion that has been imposed on whole masses of people. It is impossible for a scientist to fail to comprehend something that primary school children now have no difficulty in understanding. Throughout his career he will have been compelled to advocate this false theory. He will have thought he has no alternative if he wants to preserve his career in the face of pressure from the Darwinist dictatorship. He will have talked about evolution for 30 years, written books about it, given lectures on the subject and held conferences concerning it, so admitting that it is a fraud will be very difficult. He thinks that to do so will mean repudiating his career and that he will be excluded by the Darwinist dictatorship. He is well aware that it is a huge error to advocate Darwinism, but he will continue having to espouse a lie under pressure from the Darwinist dictatorship.<br /><br />Scientists everywhere in the world are currently in exactly the same situation. It is impossible for scientists not to see the fraudulent nature evolution, especially now that millions of living fossils have been displayed, particularly with the Atlas of Creation, now that 100 million fossils unearthed have all repudiated Darwinism and now that the fact that NOT A SINGLE TRANSITIONAL FOSSIL EXISTS has emerged into the open. If that scientist is a real scientist, unhampered by prejudice, if he acts in the light of the scientific evidence, THE SCIENTIFIC FACTS ARE THERE FOR ALL TO SEE. It is impossible for such a scientist to believe in Darwinism any longer.  <br /><br />The best thing for any scientist who sees this is to honestly defend the true facts, RATHER THAN PERSISTING IN MAINTAINING A LIE.<br /><br />There have been some very high-profile instances of this. Anthony Flew, for instance, spent years propagandizing atheism, and has countless books and conferences on the subject to his name. From being a dyed in the wool adherent of atheism and Darwinism, he began looking a little more closely at the scientific facts in front of him and came to have faith in our Almighty Lord by seeing that nothing on Earth comes into being by chance, that everything is created for a purpose and that everything created is a separate miracle. Francis Collins a former Darwinist and atheist and director of the Human Genome Project is another example. Looking honestly, closely and rationally, and without bias, at the DNA he was investigating was enough for him o come to believe in Allah.  <br /><br />There is no doubt that Allah protects everyone who sees the truth and turns onto His path. Even the Darwinist dictatorship that seems so powerful at the moment is under Allah’s control. When the time comes – and the day is not far off – the Darwinist dictatorship will collapse and cease to exist. All might and power belong to Allah. That is why level-headed scientists who have seen the true facts, even if they have spent years advocating Darwinism, must follow their consciences and abandon this outdated theory before it is too late. It is a violation of good conscience to espouse a lie in the knowledge that it is a lie, and may incur a heavy responsibility. The truly virtuous thing is to abandon one’s error and follow one’s conscience by seeing and teaching the truth.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->]]></description>
		<starter>umutgedikli</starter>
		<poster>wattle</poster>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:37:58 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:14:14 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">729535</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Dawkins Has Taken The Bait!</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=729533</link>
		<description><![CDATA[DAWKINS HAS TAKEN THE BAIT <br /><br />Certain publications in Turkey have recently been reporting statements directed at the Atlas of Creation at a conference given by Richard Dawkins a year ago as if they were something new. <br /><br />Dawkins Has Suffered a Huge Defeat, and That Is the Reason for His Refusal to Meet Mr. Adnan Oktar (Harun Yahya): <br /><br />In making imputations regarding Adnan Oktar, Dawkins forgets his own intellectual father, Darwin. It is Darwin whose ideas he defends to the hilt, the ignoramus who was unaware of the existence even of the sciences of biology, zoology, microbiology, genetics, paleontology, geology, molecular biology and paleoanthropology, who was expelled from all the schools he entered and had no other aim than to spend times with drunken mariners. Dawkins acts as supporter of a theory launched by Darwin, who was totally ignorant of science, in the outdated atmosphere of the 19th century, a theory that today even children find laughable. <br /><br />In addition to all this, Dawkins proposes the claim that Mr. Oktar does not have any knowledge of zoology as an excuse for not meeting with him. Yet at the same time he never lets go of the Atlas of Creation, Mr. Oktar’s work that has rocked the entire world. At every available opportunity he personally arranges conferences on the very subject, participates in conferences held by others, makes a special issue out of the book, and collects people around him as he comments upon it. He does all in his power to criticize, at least in his own eyes, the author’s works, yet he absolutely refuses a face-to-face meeting with him. Dawkins’s huge reluctance to enter into a debate with Adnan Oktar, despite all the latter’s calls, and his electing instead to respond, again in his own eyes, to the authors‘ ideas and his analyses on the subject all go to show how disturbing he finds the author’s activities. The only reason why Dawkins refuses a face-to-face encounter with Mr. Oktar IS THAT HE HAS BEEN COMPLETELY ROUTED AND HAS NO ANSWER TO GIVE. <br /><br />Adnan Oktar’s statement on the subject during one interview runs as follows: <br /><br /><br />Adnan Oktar: Dawkins says he refuses to debate with me because I have received no biological training. My friend, what can I say? What about your forefather Darwin? Did he receive any training, any training in zoology or biology? He was kicked out of all his schools. But he was certainly an expert when it came to drinking wine. He could tell you what vintage a wine was and where it came from and all that, but nothing about the matter at hand. Do you still believe in his nonsense? You do, even though you know how ignorant he was. Do you believe in the unscientific claims he made in the light of the backward science and deficient scientific understanding of the time? Yes, you do. That is one point. The second is, do you not debate with high school and middle school students wherever you go? Yes, you do. Have they received any training in biology? No, they have not. Do you debate with clergymen? Yes, you do. Have they had any training? No. That means you debate with people you calculate cannot beat you. With people you believe cannot defeat you. You would be devastated in a debate with me—in minutes, and even in seconds. Let me challenge you again. But your forefather [Darwin] lies dead, while you weep at his graveside. (From Adnan Oktar’s interview with Tempo TV and Kral Karadeniz TV broadcast on 28 September, 2009.) <br /><br /><br />Dawkins Has Taken the Bait and Hooked by a Picture of an Insect on the Hook<br /><br />The picture of an insect on the hook in the Atlas of Creation, which Dawkins imagines to represent a major discovery, is one of an insect showing that a life form whose fossil remains date back millions of years is still alive today. Whether or not it is a model makes absolutely no difference. What matters is that this insect that lived millions of years ago is still in existence in the same form and living today. <br /><br />Dawkins entered into a state of huge stress and panic following the manifest revelation in the Atlas of Creation of hundreds of pieces of evidence that obliterate evolution. For some reason, he says not a word about the thousands of different fossils in the various volumes of the Atlas of Creation, but displays his own ignorance in talking about a picture of a model everywhere he goes, as if this was some major discovery of genius. It is easy to see that Dawkins has nothing to say in the face of the fact that this life form, as well as all the others, is still alive today and has never changed over the course of millions of years. <br /><br />Dawkins’s futile efforts just go to show how true and influential the Atlas of Creation is. It is also an indication of the terrible collapse suffered by evolution all around the world in which the Atlas has been instrumental. <br /><br />In addition to all this, although Dawkins regards a single picture of a model as some kind of trump card, he himself uses nothing but models, drawings and reconstructions in all his own articles and conferences. AND THAT IS BECAUSE HE CANNOT PRODUCE ONE SINGLE FOSSIL THAT REPRESENTS EVIDENCE OF EVOLUTION. While he deceives people with models, he attempts to use a picture of a model in the Atlas of Creation, that consists entirely of scientific evidence, one that scientifically documents how a life form that existed millions of years ago is still alive today, against the Atlas. This shows that, like all other Darwinists, Dawkins has nothing to do with being scientific and lives in a state of profound ignorance. <br /><br />It is impossible for Dawkins, and for all other Darwinists, to have anything to do with being scientific, because SCIENCE FURTHER DEMOLISHES THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION WITH EVERY PASSING DAY. <br /><br />Statements by Adnan Oktar on the subject read: <br /><br /><br />Adnan Oktar: I used a plastic model of an animal in one place in the Atlas of Creation. This person then made a huge fuss, as if he had discovered something. Daily Vatan then took it up, wondering why we had used a plastic model instead of an original animal. Yet he has no qualms about using drawings and pictures that are totally irrelevant, but we do not hold them against you. Since the plastic model is identical to a picture of the living life form in question of course I can use whatever I wish. <br />Presenter: That is a bit of very fine detail. There is the question of declining a debate but closely following your every move. He must have read the whole thing in order to pick it up. <br /><br />Adnan Oktar: He will say, how could he debate with the author of this book? Because he will be unable to respond even to 10 pages of it. Not even 5 pages. I am now in the course of preparing the 4th and 5th volumes of the work, and I have used plastic models of frogs, for instance. They look different and nice, and there is also a bit of a jest in them. I have led that person to take the bait. This is the only subject he criticizes. I deliberately put the hook. There was a hook there, clearly visible. I put the insect on the hook and he went for it. He is now talking about it everywhere, showing people the insect on the hook. <br /><br />It is an honor for us that this person should so avoid us. In the ring a wrestler comes out and waits for his opponent. If that opponent fails to show, then he is declared as the winner to great applause. This is something far greater than a technical knockout, as he was too afraid even to turn up. But I would have liked to inflict a knockout as well. Let him show up, but he cannot because I would crush him in a single moment. (From Adnan Oktar’s interview with Tempo TV and Kral Karadeniz TV on 28 September, 2009.)<br /><br /><br />There Are No Transitional Fossils between the Crocodile and the Squirrel, because “THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TRANSITIONAL FOSSILS”<br /><br />Darwinists make the nonsensical claim that the whole current diversity of life sprang from a single cell. The transition from squirrel to bird or from chimpanzee to human being so fanatically espoused by Dawkins is just as nonsensical as the transition from crocodile to squirrel that Dawkins criticizes in his own eyes. The claim made by Dawkins’s intellectual father Darwin, who was a total ignoramus devoid of any understanding of biology, zoology or paleontology, that whales evolved from bears is the product of the same perverted logic. It is therefore utterly ludicrous for Dawkins to say “we never claimed there was any transition from crocodile to squirrel,” AS IF EVOLUTION HAD ANY LOGICAL CLAIM. <br /><br />Someone witnessing Dawkins’s claim on this subject might well form the impression that transitional fossils from such an imaginary transition of the kind maintained by Dawkins actually exist. And that is just what Dawkins is aiming for. He aims to deceive people with no knowledge about transitional fossils by means of these words of demagoguery. It will therefore be of use to reiterate here some important information, the scientific evidence for which we have already provided hundreds of times before. In summary, that information is as follows: <br /><br />Contrary to what Dawkins and all other Darwinists maintain, <br /><br />THERE IS NOT A SINGLE TRANSITIONAL FOSSIL SHOWING A PASSAGE FROM A SINGLE-CELLED ORGANISM TO A MULTI-CELLED ONE. <br /><br />THERE IS NOT A SINGLE TRANSITIONAL FOSSIL POINTING TO A PASSAGE FROM WATER TO DRY LAND.<br /><br />THERE IS NOT A SINGLE TRANSITIONAL FOSSIL POINTING TO REPTILES TURNING INTO MAMMALS. <br /><br />THERE IS NOT A SINGLE TRANSITIONAL FOSSIL POINTING TO A PASSAGE FROM LAND TO THE AIR. <br /><br />THERE IS NOT A SINGLE TRANSITIONAL FOSSIL POINTING TO A TRANSITION FROM TERRESTRIAL TO MARINE MAMMALS. <br /><br />THERE IS NOT A SINGLE TRANSITIONAL FOSSIL POINTING TO THE IMAGINARY EVOLUTION OF FLYING MAMMALS.<br /><br />THERE IS NOT A SINGLE TRANSITIONAL FOSSIL POINTING TO A PASSAGE FROM CHIMPANZEES TO HUMAN BEINGS. <br /><br />No matter what Dawkins may maintain and no matter what kind of a transition he may espouse, NOT A SINGLE TRANSITIONAL FOSSIL EXISTS that might confirm it. <br /><br />LIVING THINGS NEVER CHANGED OVER MILLIONS OF YEARS. <br /><br />And therein lies Dawkins’s difficulty. That fact has now been announced to the whole world for the very first time since Darwin’s “Origin of Species” deception 150 years ago. The Atlas of Creation, a significant work of reference revealing this, has therefore become Dawkins’s number one target. Dawkins HAS TAKEN THE BAIT when he least expected it. It is because he knows there is nothing to be done, because he refuses a face-to-face debate with Mr. Oktar in the knowledge that he will be utterly routed, that he instead resorts to such pitiful, pathetic and childish methods. And this is a declaration of the Darwinist defeat. <br /> <br />]]></description>
		<starter>umutgedikli</starter>
		<poster>David M.K.</poster>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:23:28 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 01:59:26 -0600</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">729533</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Jinn, Possibly Able To Travel Ftl?</title>
		<link>http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=728045</link>
		<description><![CDATA[I read somewhere... I don't recall where (not the Qur'an obviously, but I believe it may have been hadith) that said they travel as fast as light and faster...<br /><br />Even in the Qur'an we see that they can travel a great distance and return before the blinking of an eye... anyone else think they have discovered, or always knew how a means of faster than light travel? Being made of smokeless fire probably helps... now if you are agreed in the idea that they are possible of FTL travel... what about this...<br /><br />Time travel... if they can indeed perform FTL travel... then in theory they can time travel. Are there any historical accounts of things being out of time/place in the Muslim world? Is there any historical evidence that might even hint at such an ability? Quantum-physicists usually grow very religious the more they learn, discover, and witness... is it possible we are creeping into a realm belonging to the Jinn and other un-named beings mentioned in the Qur'an?]]></description>
		<starter>RyanM</starter>
		<poster>RyanM</poster>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:44:32 -0500</pubDate>
		<lastPostDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:44:32 -0500</lastPostDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">728045</guid>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>