In Christianity Pork & Alcohol Allowed? Options

[MuslimBro]

Peace
Are u allowed to consume pork and alcohol in christianity? this is what he bible has to say:
Pork in Bible
"And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you".

"Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch, they are unclean to you."[Leviticus 11:7-8]

"And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you. Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass."
[Deuteronomy 14:8]

"Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day."
[Isaiah 65:4-5]

Alcohol in Bibble
"And be not drunk with wine."

Well, if bible condemns eating Pork and such act then y do christians do these? Isn't these a contradiction with other verses of Bible?

[natey14]

Im glad you asked this question

The verses with the pork or swine:

Notice how those verses are in the OLD Testement, Im pretty sure that is relating to the sacrifices, you would not usually use a pig for a sacrifice, usually it would be a ram or a goat. God put the animals on the earth for us, why would he put an animal on the earth if it had no purpose. It is perfectly ok to eat pork in the Christian belief.

Alcohol:

About the Alcohol related verse, God says do not get DRUNK with alcohol. Jesus himself drank wine. You see, if you are responsibly drinking, like a glass of wine, it is perfectly normal and not a sin at all. But, if you drink like 6 glasses of wine, to the point where you have no control over yourself than it is a sin. To drink alcohol is not a sin but to get drunk is.
Its kinda like how the Bible says not to be a glutton,

Proverbs 23:21 - For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

A glutton is when you eat way too much food, some things are good, but too much of some things are a sin.

I hope this clears things up for you.

[Khamosh]

Dear natey14,

Are you making an assumption here about eating swine and drinking alcohol? Or is this based on proof and evidence from authentic religious sources supporting the drinking of alcohol and eating swine? Why could you not use a pig for a sacrifice?

[me]

Peace,

In the old testament, a pig was unclean and an unacceptable sacrifice. In the new testament there was no longer need of sacrifices. Regarding pork and alcohol:

In Mark 7:18-23, Jesus said this concerning the traditions of the law-
"Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?"

In Luke 10:8 Jesus instructed his diciples, saying "Whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you."

In Acts 10:9-15 Peter has a vision concerning unclean food. It happened three times. It was symbolic of God's desire to have the gospel preached to the gentiles, but it also showed that the dietary restrictions of the old covenant were no longer in force. This is not contradictory. Revelation in the Bible unfolds and builds upon itself. Jesus' mission before the resurrection was to the Jews only, but afterwards he instructed his disciples to go into to the whole world, and preach the gospel to all nations.

As to alcohol, you quoted the right scripture. The issue is not alcohol, but drunkenness. Part of Isaac's misdirected blessing on Jacob included the line, "May God always give you plenty of dew for healthy crops and good harvests of grain and wine." (Genesis 27:28) In John 2:1-11, Jesus' first miracle of his ministry is to make water into wine. He also used wine as part of the holy sacraments.

Drunkness is described as immoral behavior in Galations 5:21 and 1 Peter 4:3. In Ephesians 5:18, Paul advises "Don't be drunk with wine, because that will ruin your life. Instead, let the Holy Spirit fill and control you"

Hope this Helps.

[Wanderer]

Peace to all of you,

Pork is an unclean meat that is unfit for human consumption. In [Leviticus 11] and [Deuteronomy 14], God gives the meat Laws, i.e. those that are not to be eaten, and those that are allowed. Pigs are scavengers, meaning that they clean up the messes caused by other animals. So basically, pigs eat trash. Not only are pigs to not be sacrificed, but they must not be eaten, as they are rather unhealthy creatures to be eating.

In regards to [Mark 7], it should be noted that the subject of the matter regarding RITUAL HAND WASHING, and not clean and unclean meats. The Pharisees devised this washing not for hygiene, but rather for ritualistic purposes: it is a man-made law. God did not devise this law. Washing your hands is not going to stop evil from entering your heart and mind, and that is the main point Jesus makes. The man-made traditions and laws are attacked in this dialogue, seeing as they make the Law of God ineffective.

It should also be noted that the disciples were to tend to the LOST SHEEP OF ISRAEL, and not the Gentiles. The Israelites beyond Judea would most likely be keeping some facets of the dietary laws, including God's prohibition of pork consumption. It would be utterly ridiculous to say that Jesus suddenly makes it so that it's now okay to eat road kill and other rotten meats, wouldn't it?

As for Peter's vision in [Acts 10], understand that this is only a VISION that God gave him to better illustrate a point using familiar Laws: the meat Laws. See, the Jews considered the Gentiles "unclean," and so did all in their power to separate themselves from these "unclean animals." This attitude is wrong, and is prevalent in Peter. The Jews tried to apply a "human version" of the meat Laws, and it is these man-made laws that God is wroth against, causing Him to teach Peter metaphorically.

The meat Laws have NOT been abrogated:

Matthew 5
17 "Think not I have come to destroy the Law or the prophets, not to destroy, but to fulfil."

[Khamosh]

If a pig is unclean to use as a sacrifice, what makes it clean to consume?

[al faqeer]

Good point sis .

The Holy Qur'an has prohibited the swine-flesh, hence the Muslims would not dare touch it. The Bible has also forbidden swine-flesh, but Christians disregarded this order and started consuming it. The Europeans now proclaim that pork is a very powerful diet, rich in protein. Some of them further argue that since there is a great scarcity of food-stuff in the world and swines are available in abundant quantity, they should be consumed in the diet to overcome the food shortage. If this argument is true, why don't they use dog's meat as dogs too are available in abundance? The Europeans perhaps hate the mere mention of dog's meat in the same way as the Muslims shun pork.

Dr. E. Kazim. M.D. in his article "Medical aspects of forbidden foods in Islam" (July 1981 issue of Muslim Journal has described diseases carried or caused by the flesh of the swine.

He writes:

The pig is a scavenger. It is an omnivorous animal. It eats everything. There are many diseases carried from swine to man, particularly parasite infestations. Lately extensive research has been focused on senility-old age is characterized by hardening of inner lining of the blood vessels of the heart, brain etc. a process called atheroselerosis. When a clot forms, it results in coronary thrombosis or a heart attack, cerebral thrombosis or stroke.

Different dietary factors are responsible for atheroselerosis. Gross atheroma may be produced in rabbit by feeding it with cholesterol, but when you add lard (derived from hog fat) to the cholesterol, the incidence of atheroma is increased and thus you would produce coronary thrombosis, and myocardial infraction. ...........


read more here

[me]

Help me understand something. There are several foods, such as shellfish, that are not kosher but are halal. Can someone explain the rationale as to why God would see fit to take certain foods off of the forbidden list? I don't need to hear about the virtues of shrimp, because I love the stuff myself. I am more interested in the Muslim view of the shift from unclean to clean.

[zee]

from some of my friends who practice christianity and live thier lives in accordance to what they believe is the word of God, they do not consume pork nor alcohol....

[Allah's Slave]

(IMG:http://www.gawaher.com/style_emoticons/default/sl.gif) and Hello,

Alcohol in Bibble:
"And be not drunk with wine."

I'm wondering if someone can please provide the source for this (IMG:http://www.gawaher.com/style_emoticons/default/yes.gif)

(IMG:http://www.gawaher.com/style_emoticons/default/wa.gif)
AS

[me]

(IMG:http://www.gawaher.com/style_emoticons/default/sl.gif) and Hello,
I'm wondering if someone can please provide the source for this  (IMG:http://www.gawaher.com/style_emoticons/default/yes.gif)

(IMG:http://www.gawaher.com/style_emoticons/default/wa.gif)
AS

"Pay careful attention, then, to how you walk--not as unwise people but as wise--making the most of the time, because the days are evil. So don't be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. And don't get drunk with wine, which leads to reckless actions, but be filled with the Spirit: speaking to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing and making music to the Lord in your heart, giving thanks always for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ

Ephesians 5:15-20

[Ignatius]

Grace and Peace Allah's Slave,

I think your quote is taken from the KJV translation...

And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; - Ephesians 5:18

But be clear, Sacred Scripture must not be taken out of context and must never be interpreted so that one verse contradicts another. Take them all in balanced understanding to offer one clear guidance on a subject. This verse of St. Paul to the Ephesians is an admonishment to moderation with wine and not meant to suggest that one should not drink wine.

Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. - Philippians 4:5

We know that our Lord Jesus' first miracle was the turning of water into wine at the wedding at Cana. If wine was to be avoided, our Lord Jesus would have not provided it.

Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. - John 2:7-10

Again we most measure what our St. Paul spoke to the Ephesians with what our Lord Jesus spoke to the disciples in Mark's Gospel...

"Here me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can defile him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him." - St. Mark 6:14-16

I don't have a problem recognizing Muslim's refusal to drink as a legitimate discipline but I don't believe it is paralleled in Jewish and Christian Scripture nor do I believe our Lord Jesus objected to the drinking of wine. We know this by Jesus' inception of our most sacred Sacrament (Holy Eucharist or Lord's Supper).

Peace 4 Real.

This post has been edited by Ignatius: Sep 12 2005, 03:28 AM

[leechingrabbit]

I've never understood why Christians eat pork/just about anything else. Just because Jesus said anything that a man could take in could not defile them, does it then mean to defy the previous laws?

[Real Truth Seeker]

The main problems that Muslims have with the Christian doctrine is: original sin, the trinity and the supposed contradiction of the law of Moses and the fulfilment of the law by Jesus.

Well now that I have an understanding of these concepts and understand where you are coming from (not getting a good concise, easy to understand answer to your questions) I'll explain it here for you:

The bible is split into 2 parts the Old Testament (or old promise) and the New Testament (new promise).

Original sin:
We are not born into Original sin (not hereditary, it is the name given to the first sin of man (disobeying God's commandment).

Trinity: The trinity is made up of 3 persons (father,son and holy spirit)
No one understands how this works, I don't think God wants you to understand how God exists he just wants you to know he does.
Christians know God exists as a tri-unity because in the Old Testament whenever is says god or lord in Hebrew it actually said god (is one, but consists of more than one) but the Jews didn't understand what that meant they were only told that 'there is only God' 'God is one'.

In the New Testament, Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies of a messiah (saviour, anointed of god) that he would die and be raised again for our sins. And Jesus came to correct the meaning of the law to the Jews, they didn't understand how to implement it. They took the law into their own hands, just as Muslims are doing today. Jesus forgave people their sins (something that only God himself could do), so Jesus was God. And the Holy spirit is God also because he is truth. And Jesus also said he is truth and life. These are attributes of God.
So to say that the bible does not teach the trinity, you are mistaken. The bible is not easy to understand, it takes time and an open mind and heart to understand the full entire message of the bible. Patience.

And the law, well that's easy to explain:
Each country has it's own laws, the Jews were given God's law, so that they could be an example to other nations, the example is that even when you have the law you don't obey it !! You can never hope to obey it by yourself ! And God demands justice so he will punish people in the afterlife for your misdeeds.

But God does not want everyone to go to hell, so Jesus laid his perfect body down (without blemish, did not sin) so that you can be righteous in God's eyes he obeyed the law and yet was punished by the law for something he did not do. So now God's new testament is that instead of obeying the law, you obey Jesus. If their is no law then everyone can have a chance of salvation. Does that mean you can do what you want. as Paul put it 'certainly not, rather we uphold it'. So now you obey the personal conduct laws but the punishments under the law are not needed and neither are the dietary laws. Because as Paul said 'you have to obey the countries laws that you live in'.

So that means Christians can integrate into the society they live in and help people. The greatest commandment as Paul put it 'love everyone even your enemies, because don't even sinners love each other, what good are you doing then ? What law is equal to love everyone ?'.

I hope you understand what Christians believe now and you can appreciate it and can get along together.
Any questions please ask (IMG:http://www.gawaher.com/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Real Truth Seeker

[TheBurk]

Peace
Are u allowed to consume pork and alcohol in christianity? this is what he bible has to say:
Pork in Bible
"And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you".

"Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch, they are unclean to you."[Leviticus 11:7-8]

"And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you. Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass."
[Deuteronomy 14:8]

"Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day."
[Isaiah 65:4-5]

Alcohol in Bibble
"And be not drunk with wine."

Well, if bible condemns eating Pork and such act then y do christians do these? Isn't these a contradiction with other verses of Bible?

while i do eat sausage from time to time, i dont realy eat a lot of pork (infact sausage about 3 times a year is all i ever have) but, a lot of christians believe that because christ came and rewrote a lot of the rules the jews lived by that that particular one was off. and being drunk is frowned upon but not a small drink from time to time. this is mainly because christ and his followers drank wine (this is different though because in most cases they would make wine and pour it into water to sterilize it, the alchohol would clean the water) then again, at the time there wasnt much else to drink. i personaly dont drink alchohol, but as i said it is frowned upon by many and some more extreme christians have banned it all together, here in texas we have many "dry" counties, in which the sale of alchoholic beverages is prohibited (but not ownership or consumption of)

i would like to ask about muslims views on tobbacco, isnt the hookah used to smoke tobbacco? and dosent tobbacco contain nicotine which is a very adictive substance? alchohol isnt addictive persay, but smoking definatly is. so why is it accepted?

[TheBurk]

Good point sis .

The Holy Qur'an has prohibited the swine-flesh, hence the Muslims would not dare touch it. The Bible has also forbidden swine-flesh, but Christians disregarded this order and started consuming it. The Europeans now proclaim that pork is a very powerful diet, rich in protein. Some of them further argue that since there is a great scarcity of food-stuff in the world and swines are available in abundant quantity, they should be consumed in the diet to overcome the food shortage. If this argument is true, why don't they use dog's meat as dogs too are available in abundance? The Europeans perhaps hate the mere mention of dog's meat in the same way as the Muslims shun pork.

Dr. E. Kazim. M.D. in his article "Medical aspects of forbidden foods in Islam" (July 1981 issue of Muslim Journal has described diseases carried or caused by the flesh of the swine.

He writes:

The pig is a scavenger. It is an omnivorous animal. It eats everything. There are many diseases carried from swine to man, particularly parasite infestations. Lately extensive research has been focused on senility-old age is characterized by hardening of inner lining of the blood vessels of the heart, brain etc. a process called atheroselerosis. When a clot forms, it results in coronary thrombosis or a heart attack, cerebral thrombosis or stroke.

Different dietary factors are responsible for atheroselerosis. Gross atheroma may be produced in rabbit by feeding it with cholesterol, but when you add lard (derived from hog fat) to the cholesterol, the incidence of atheroma is increased and thus you would produce coronary thrombosis, and myocardial infraction. ...........
read more here

heh i had never heard the protein rich part, if you want a kosher food that is rich in protein try locusts, i hear they are mighty tasty when dipped in honey and cooked. and about 4 of them contain as much protein as a large steak, which is why i never understood why those suffering from locust plagues in north africa never eat them, (this may sound odd, but hey, its an abundant and nutritious food source) i know locusts are kosher, but are they acceptable for consumption by islamic rules?

[al-malibari]

Hi
We disagree , hate and will not appreciate trinity because its a big lie on God

1.Original sin as far as i know is an integral part of the church's doctrine and "unbaptisized babies go to hell"
2.

And to warn those (Christians, and pagans) who say, "Allâh has begotten a son (or offspring or children)."No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. Mighty is the word that comes out of their mouths [i.e. He begot (took) sons and daughters]. They utter nothing but a lie.[18:4-5]

Which of the prophets worshipped a triune god?
a)Adam
b)Noah
c)Abraham
d)Moses
e)Lot
f)rest of the prophets


We believe the same message all the prophets bought that is pure monotheism where god has not partners in his attributes and we donot supplicate to other than him and do not worship other than him. u should know that we are upon the path of the prophets with out doubt irrespective of what the bible says.Infact what bible says really doesnt matter since there is no one version of the bible or nothing that is available in the original language it was revealed in .Even if we assume it was divinely revealed and correct ..which version of should it we accept ...never mind that

Even jesus turned to him when he was in trouble ....why would u even ask those who cannot protect themselves ...i seriously donot understand

Our duty is it to convey the message and upon u is to choose to believe or disbelieve ....i or the rest of the muslims don't really gain anything materialistic by u choosing islam or rejecting it .We very well know there will those who will reject ,those who will accept then reject and

If u wish u could some read the following as i am not in a mood to debate ....May Allah guide you
Did God Become Man by Bilal Philips
Who Truly Deserves to be Worshipped Alone?
True Message of Jesus by Bilal Philips
Before Nicea
Status of jesus in islam
The Complete and Final message to mankind
View of the Bible by former christian priests
Bible? - "Son of God?" - "Trinity?"
Discussion with a born again christian regarding christianity

[OneLove]

from some of my friends who practice christianity and live thier lives in accordance to what they believe is the word of God, they do not consume pork nor alcohol....

yes, I have several friends from Ethiopia (which is 50% muslims 50% Christians) almost all Christian Ethiopians that I have met, they do NOT eat pork....

[Jibrael]

(IMG:http://www.gawaher.com/style_emoticons/default/sl.gif) and Peace

While we Muslims do not believe the entire Bible to be the word of God, there are still verses that remain that were truly inspired. However, the Qur'an is the book that we use for our legislation because it is our Book.

Concerning Jesus (peace be upon him) and the Torah, he apparently says in the bible

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

This is clear evidence that Christians should obey the laws of the Torah, which include abstaining from pork, adultery, and respecting parents. In this quote, it is clearly stated that if you break any of these laws or teach others to do the same, you will be called "the least" in the Kingdom of heaven" So Paul of Tarsus' teaching are directly opposite to the teaching of 'Isa ('alayhis salam).

[darla_1753]

Hi there,

Using the above verses then it is certainly correct that a Christian should not eat pork etc, but do remember, that just as Muslims do not see the bible as the word of God, Christians do not see the Koran as the word of God.

It is important to remember as well that just as there are different sects in Islam (Sunni, Shia etc) which use fundamentally the same rules but have slight variations, we also have sects in Christianity.

All Christians agree that there is no biblical prohibition against wine (some Christians choose to abstain as they believe it has negative social consequences). Just as some things in Islam are Halal, and others are Haram and yet others are neutral, wine falls into the neutral catagory for Christians.

Concerning pork the usual reason I have always been taught as to why Christians don't have to follow the the food laws of Leviticus etc is because (as stated before) there belong to the 'old' laws. When Jesus came he he gave us new laws. A good example of this is when a woman is meant to be stoned (for adultary I believe), this is the punishment given for this crime in the Old Testament, but Jesus said that only one who was not guilty should throw the first stone (ie: no one).

When Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross, he 'fulfilled' the law, thus 'wiping out' the need for many of the old laws.

Concerning the non-eating of pork in Etheopia, that is most like due to custom rather than anythi g else, just as in England oats are eaten (when in France oats are seen as food for cattle) and in France horse is eaten (which to me just seems icky).


Love and Peace,

DARLA