Calling Me A Munafiq? Options

[Panthera Tigris]

Assalamu alaikum

I was at the LMC and after 4 rakats they gave a fund raising speech. One emotional man gave a speech about how we need out own schools, to raise our own sheikhs, such that we don't need to import shiekhs, he was canvassing for the London East Academy school. Instead we should be exporting sheikhs to the US etc. He continued saying that how the bangladeshi parents were so lazy that they would send their children to a state run Christian school, where they would have the bible read to them a few times a week and go to church. He said that school had 90%+ Muslim children. The excuses the parents gave were that the school was close by, don;t have to wake up early etc. He bascially talked about how Bangladeshi community spends money on lan din Bangladesh and live like refugees here (why don't they spend money on their kids here in their own Islamic schools?).

So after the guy finishes. A brother (young, beard, hat) near me starts saying how the speaker has reviled the Christians when it is said in the Quran that the Christians are closest to us etc, he is dividing the community. So to me he was saying that the speaker said something bad. He said that to some guy near him as a passing comment, I don't think the two were together. So I add that's not what he was saying, infact he was talking about the Bangladeshi community. If he has a problem, the main hall is over there, go there and you can speak to the speaker. He says somethingline like he doesn't need to, he (the speaker he was criticising?) can hear him (I'm thinking, what? Is there some metaphysical link?) , I think he understood from a back-biting point of view. He said something like he is not backniting because "he can hear him"/it's in public or whatever. I'm like so you are saying he (the speaker) is saying something against the quran? etc. He says yes.

[Panthera Tigris]

Thing is, this guy has made a mountain out of a mole hill. I don't know his problem, maybe some "group" he belong too. Anyway, I sense he lacks intellect. Maybe he misunderstood the speaker. So I say do you understand what "reviled" means? He stops, kind of surprised I guess. Then he says it means xyz etc. I say it's from revulsion and what the speaker said was not revulsion anyway. Then I say, maybe you should go to the London East Academy and study GCSE English. (lol). He continued and I said go to the main hall and say it. Then he says, "who's talking to you?". I say "you are now". He says "I was talking to him" (the brother between me and him). (And yes that was true, but when I spoke, he replied, therefore establishing a conversation). Then he says "your chatting s**t". I was shocked at that. Bearded, practising brother, dressed in "Islamic gear". I was thinking "I seek refuge in Allah, this is tarawih, in Ramadan, keep calm Luffy. I don't know why was getting angry, I wanted him to hit me so that I could have excuse to beat him up lol. I began dua and dhikr because I was becomeing flammable. I could not understand how people can be so stupid. Why are there such Muslims, that mashallah they have the zeal, but no intellect? These are the dangerous Muslims and these are the ones that end up killing other Muslims in the Muslim world. These are the Muslims used in secret service "flase flag" operations, they have no intellect, they don't know what they are doing, but they have the zeal.

After the next two rakats and then this brothers says, on the day of judgement the munafiq (hypocrites?) will have no leg to stand on. Something like that. I said again, tell that to them in the main hall. He said no, I'm telling you. I smile, cause this is just unbelieveable what this guy is saying.

I seen this brother a few times at the LMC. Who is he? He is someone who prays in the LMC hall, either someone who is busy and can't make it earlier or someone with weaker iman than those who pray in the main hall of ELM, the first row and the first hall. A colleague of mine is mashallah always wants to pray at the main hall, in the first rows, inshallah he has strong iman. This brother, if he was a "somebody", he would be in the front rows, not in the other hall in the back rows with a weak iman person like me. The speaker he criticised spoke infront of Sheikh Abdul Qayyum and other Sheikhs in the front row. If he said something against the Quran, why did the Sheikhs (Malaysia/Bangladesh/Egypt/Jordan) remain silent?

So was he calling me a munafiq? Myself I have considered certain muslims who consider the life and property of Muslims lawful for them (murder, slavery) as non-Muslims. Actually I don't think I said they were directly kafir even, but that if they are doing this x y z then they become non-Muslim (as that was the fatwa I read from said). I know you can't call people kafir, cause "then one of them is". What about calling someone a munafiq?

[Syriankid]

As-Salaamu aleikum wa rahmat Allah wa barakatahu

You were correct, then you became incorrect.

Then I say, maybe you should go to the London East Academy and study GCSE English. (lol).

First you were advising him against backbiting, then you just were doing it to provoke him. So you were tested by Allah (swt) even as you were initially trying to enjoin the good and forbid the evil, and your arrogance got the better of you.

Obviously the other guy shouldn't call people munafiqeen (unless they are) or talk behind their backs. Also, he was wrong about criticizing the speaker for speaking against the Christians. Christians are kuffar and mushrikeen, them being "closer to us" (not the phrase used in the Qur'an) doesn't matter.


W'as-Salaamu aleikum wa rahmat Allah wa barakatahu

[Panthera Tigris]

Jazakallah.

LoL yeah. I didn't think that was arrogant at the time, I thought it was funny as the speaker was raising money for the London East academy a secondary school that does gcse english. I don't think I am that arrogant, but how would you get rid of it?

[Abu Ruqqayah]

Assalamu'Alikum,

Wow, so many pps pn at this time?

Anyways...Akhs that was me!!! KIDDIN!! lolz...I agree with what the sister above said!! You had a right to say some of the things, Masha'Allah You shouldn't have provoked him or judged his Iman on the basis that he prays in the LMC. Akhs you get brothers like him and one has to deal with them in a swift manner. If i was there now...there might have been sparks but masha'Allah you stayed calm which is good.

Fee Amanillah.

[friend of all]

Thing is, this guy has made a mountain out of a mole hill. I don't know his problem, maybe some "group" he belong too. Anyway, I sense he lacks intellect. Maybe he misunderstood the speaker. So I say do you understand what "reviled" means? He stops, kind of surprised I guess. Then he says it means xyz etc. I say it's from revulsion and what the speaker said was not revulsion anyway. Then I say, maybe you should go to the London East Academy and study GCSE English. (lol). He continued and I said go to the main hall and say it. Then he says, "who's talking to you?". I say "you are now". He says "I was talking to him" (the brother between me and him). (And yes that was true, but when I spoke, he replied, therefore establishing a conversation). Then he says "your chatting s**t". I was shocked at that. Bearded, practising brother, dressed in "Islamic gear". I was thinking "I seek refuge in Allah, this is tarawih, in Ramadan, keep calm Luffy. I don't know why was getting angry, I wanted him to hit me so that I could have excuse to beat him up lol. I began dua and dhikr because I was becomeing flammable. I could not understand how people can be so stupid. Why are there such Muslims, that mashallah they have the zeal, but no intellect? These are the dangerous Muslims and these are the ones that end up killing other Muslims in the Muslim world. These are the Muslims used in secret service "flase flag" operations, they have no intellect, they don't know what they are doing, but they have the zeal.

After the next two rakats and then this brothers says, on the day of judgement the munafiq (hypocrites?) will have no leg to stand on. Something like that. I said again, tell that to them in the main hall. He said no, I'm telling you. I smile, cause this is just unbelieveable what this guy is saying.

You have Surpirsed me that you had that much time to argue with someone in the masjid. Best option is keep quite when you found such person. You souldn't have critized his english.

[Panthera Tigris]

Assalamu'Alikum,

Wow, so many pps pn at this time?

Anyways...Akhs that was me!!! KIDDIN!! lolz...I agree with what the sister above said!! You had a right to say some of the things, Masha'Allah You shouldn't have provoked him or judged his Iman on the basis that he prays in the LMC. Akhs you get brothers like him and one has to deal with them in a swift manner. If i was there now...there might have been sparks but masha'Allah you stayed calm which is good.

Fee Amanillah.

I wasn't judging him exactly for being in the LMC, I was trying to say that we both were in the LMC and I'm not having an issue with the speaker, I don't think I know better than the speaker there and the shieks there etc. unlike it seems this brother.

The sheikhs are there in the front and they sort things if something "wrong" happens. Like during witr once the imam did not sit after two rakats! Everyone was confused as the imam did not make sajda of forgetfullness, but the sheikh said that it was ok because the Prophet (peace be upon him) would pray without sitting after two.

I wasn't arguing exactly. LOL I kept saying, (about his issue) go tell them in the main hall and the speaker, if he thinks something against the quran was happening. We had a lot of time because they took a break while different people spoke.

[Muhsinmuttaqi]

Assalamu Aleikum

The whole situation is a little bit confusion. Allah knows best.

I would remind that Munafiqeen are worse that Mushrikeen and Kafireen. This sin leads to the lowest rank in hellfire. In Qur'an there are three groups of people mentioned which are Mu'min (Believers), Kuffar (disbelievers), and Munafiqoon (hypocrites). They are three different groups and Munafiq is the worst of them. The punishment for the munafiqeen in the afterlife is the worst and worse that that of the kuffar in general. So calling someone a munafiq is even worse than calling someone kafir. Brothers and sister are usually careful when calling someone kafir but calling someone munafiq is ok. I experienced it myself. There are ways how to recognize a munafiq.

Is Shaytan a disbeliever or a munafiq? I would say munafiq because he has the knowledge and he knows everything but he believes that he is better than his Creator and he deceive the humans and jinn. He believes in God and he knows it because he saw the angels and he lived with the angels. He did not reject a message the way kuffar do but he knew the message but he arrogantly rejected it because of Jelousy toward the Creator and Adam aleihi salam. There are some people who believe in God Almighty but they hate him. They believe in the message and the existence of God Almighty but they just reject him. I know it from some people. People from the so-called Black Metal Mafia and other people. It is shirk but with knowledge. The munafiqeen could be someone who studies Islam and becomes knowledgeable with the purpose to have knowledge enough to deceive the new muslims and those who are interested in Islam. They deceive for the sake of deceiving not because they think that their religion is the truth, sometimes they also try to lead the new Muslim to them.

On the Day of Judgment the disbelievers will have no light when they have to cross the bridge to Jannah but the munafiqeen first receive light but then later their light turns off and they have to go back but they then fall to hellfire. Because hypocrites are deceivers so they are deceived on the day of judgment. First they are made thinking that they can sneak through the gate of Paradise but then when they are almost there they fall to hellfire. I guess the worst the munafiq the closer he comes to Jannah and then before he makes the last step to Jannah he falls to hellfire, Allah knows best, because psychologically this would be the worst situation for the munafiq because being right before Jannah and the losing it is really horrible psychologically, but Allah knows best.

I know examples from Germany. I think I should open another thread for that.

Salam