 Why Believe Mohammed? |
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Muhsinmuttaqi
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 Apr 26 2008, 02:02 PM
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According to the New Testament Jesus said: 'I and the father are one'
This means that if we love God Almighty then we follow the messenger. Jesus was sent as the Messenger of Allah and prophet to his people to be obeyed and followed.
God Almighty also gave us a book, Al-Qur'an, but also sent a messenger. We have to follow Qur'an and Sunnah. Qur'an is the book of guidance, but Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah is the perfect example and we take the interpretation of Qur'an only from him.
According to the New Testament, Jesus said: "No one can come to the father except through me"
This means that the prophets and messengers of Allah are sent to be obayed. Those who follow the messenger are doing the will of God Almighty. The message of the messengers are not from their own desires, but are revelations from God Almighty.
Therefore, Jesus was sent to be followed and to be obeyed and to be believed.
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wiseguy
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Apr 26 2008, 02:27 PM
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Allah (God) had sent Jesus to The Lost Sheep Of The House Of Israel so Israelites should follow, obey and believe him.
Jesus was a link in a long chain of prophets and messengers sent by God to various societies and nations whenever they needed guidance or deviated from the teachings of God. Jesus was especially prepared by God to be sent to the Jews who had deviated from the teachings of Moses and other Messengers. As he was miraculously supported by God in conception, birth and childhood, he was also supported by numerous miracles to prove that he was a messenger from God. However, the majority of the Jews rejected his ministry. The Qur'an tells us about Jesus' mission in the following verses which are a continuation of the verses quoted earlier in which the glad tiding was brought to Mary:
And He will teach him the Book, the wisdom, the Torah, the Gospel and make him a Messenger to the children of Israel saying, “I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I will create for you out of clay as the likeness of a bird; then I will breathe into It, and it will be a bird, by the power of God. I will also heal the blind and the leper and bring to life the dead, by the power of God. I will inform you too of the things you eat, and what you treasure up in your houses. Surely in that is a sign for you if you are believers. Likewise I will confirm the truth of the Torah that is before me, and to make lawful to you certain things that before were forbidden unto you. I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; so fear God, and obey me. Surely God is my Lord and your Lord; so serve Him. This is a straight path". (The Holy Quran 3:45-51)
In another verse of the Qur’an, Jesus confirmed the validity of the Torah which was revealed to Moses and he also brought the glad tidings of the coming of a final messenger after him. This is clearly indicated in the following verse:
And when Jesus son of Mary said. 'children of Israel. I am indeed the Messenger to you, confirming the Torah that is before me, and giving good tidings of a Messenger who shall come after me, whose name shall be the praised one (note that this is translation of Ahmad which is Prophet Muhammad’s name). (The Holy Quran 61:6)
The messenger of whom Jesus gave glad tidings is referred to in both the old and new testaments of the Bible. The old testament contains several prophecies that apply only to the Prophet Muhammad. Now Allah (God) have sent the Prophet Muhammad who is the last messenger of Allah (God) to all mankind so all mankind should follow, obey and believe him.
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Nakdimon
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Jul 26 2008, 12:24 AM
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QUOTE(Basil al-Mamluk @ Apr 8 2008, 04:10 PM)  If you would read further (assuming you are pulling from the Wikipedia page), it says:
"The two-source hypothesis is the most widely accepted solution to the Synoptic Problem, which concerns the literary relationships between and among the first three canonical gospels (the Gospels of Mark, Matthew, and Luke), known as the Synoptic Gospels. Similarity in word choices and event placement shows an interrelationship. The synoptic problem concerns how this interrelation came to pass and what the nature of this interrelationship is. According to the two-source hypothesis, Matthew and Luke both used the Gospel of Mark, independently of one another. This necessitates the existence of a hypothetical source in order to explain the double tradition material where there is agreement between Matthew and Luke that is not in Mark. This hypothetical source is named Q for convenience."
This is what the top Christian scholars say about the origins of the gospels as we know them today.
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Actually, Paul contradicts Jesus directly. Here is an instance:
Matthew 5:17-19 (Beatitudes, Jesus is speaking here)
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Where as Paul, in Romans 7 goes off on a diatribe about how the law is dead to him and that he would not sin if there were no laws. Reading into the life of Paul led me to reject Christianity completely. Actually, if you read Romans 7 carefully, then you would see that Paul is right on par about everything. He doesn't say that the law is dead, he says that the law can't save him because of the fact that (the law of) sin takes advantage of the commandment of the Torah and the weakness of the flesh. He says that he is trapped in his body, which prevents him of doing what he knows is right, yet his flesh wants to go it's own way and so his conclusion is that he is trapped. Which leads him to the question: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." His intention shows in the very next chapter. His conclusion in Romans 8: "Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the Torah of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." So people that walk in the Spirit are subject to Gods Torah, those that are not subject to Gods Torah are in enmity. This is what Romans 7 is all about. There is nothing wrong with Romans 7 in relation to Matthew 5. Nakdimon
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wiseguy
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Aug 4 2008, 05:54 AM
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Nakdimon,
Based on the NT, Paul had clearly contradicted Jesus so many times. You are trying to condone Paul but the contradiction is too clear for you to condone. Lets us compare the verses of NT regarding the Law or the prophets:
1) Matthew 5:17 (New International Version)
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
VERSUS
2) Romans
7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Based on Romans 7:4, 6 , Paul says the law is dead and no longer binding. But Jesus said that the law will be binding in its entirety "till heaven and earth pass away." (Mt.5:17-19). Therefore, based on the NT, we know that Paul had clearly contradicted Jesus.
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wiseguy
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Aug 4 2008, 06:05 AM
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Now lets us compare Romans 8:26 with Mt.6:9-13:
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
In Mt.6:9-13 Jesus teaches his disciples how to pray. Yet here Paul says that Christians don't know how to pray. Therefore, Paul had contradicted Jesus again.
Conclusion: Paul contradicts Jesus according to the NT.
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Nakdimon
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Aug 7 2008, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE(wiseguy @ Aug 4 2008, 07:54 AM) Nakdimon,
Based on the NT, Paul had clearly contradicted Jesus so many times. You are trying to condone Paul but the contradiction is too clear for you to condone. Lets us compare the verses of NT regarding the Law or the prophets:
1) Matthew 5:17 (New International Version)
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
VERSUS
2) Romans
7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. What Paul is saying there is that we are dead to the law in the Messiah in the sense that the law demanded death because of our sins. Now that we have died in the Messiah, we are no longer under the requirement of the law, that we should die because of our sins, since the Messiah has cleansed us from our sins. This is what is being said. Read the entire chapter and verses 1-8 of chapter 8 and see what he is saying. He declares that the law is righteous, just and good in verse 12, but can’t deliver us from the agonies of sin. So man is trapped since the inner wants to do what the Torah says, but the flesh rebels and wants to have it’s own way. Therefore we have been called to kill (the works of) the flesh and live by the Spirit. Paul is NOT contradicting Yeshua in any way shape or form. You badly want him to though, since that would disqualify him as a disciple and destroy his case. QUOTE(wiseguy @ Aug 4 2008, 07:54 AM) Based on Romans 7:4, 6 , Paul says the law is dead and no longer binding. [b]But Jesus said that the law will be binding in its entirety "till heaven and earth pass away." (Mt.5:17-19). Therefore, based on the NT, we know that Paul had clearly contradicted Jesus.[/b] Wiseguy, you keep coming up with arguments that backfire against yourself. If we take this statement of Yeshua as authentic, then you have just destroyed the prophetic claims of your prophet, since he declared war on nearly all the laws in the Torah. He broke almost all of the 10 commandments, by your own sources’ admission. Therefore, since Islam claims that he made things lawful that were prohibited before in the Torah and prohibited things that were considered prohibited before in the Torah, then he can’t be a prophet at all! You have confirmed why Muhammad was rejected as a prophet by Christians as well as Jews. Thank you
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wiseguy
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Aug 8 2008, 02:17 AM
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QUOTE(Nakdimon @ Aug 7 2008, 03:15 PM) What Paul is saying there is that we are dead to the law in the Messiah in the sense that the law demanded death because of our sins. Now that we have died in the Messiah, we are no longer under the requirement of the law, that we should die because of our sins, since the Messiah has cleansed us from our sins. This is what is being said. Read the entire chapter and verses 1-8 of chapter 8 and see what he is saying. He declares that the law is righteous, just and good in verse 12, but can’t deliver us from the agonies of sin. So man is trapped since the inner wants to do what the Torah says, but the flesh rebels and wants to have it’s own way. Therefore we have been called to kill (the works of) the flesh and live by the Spirit. Paul is NOT contradicting Yeshua in any way shape or form. You badly want him to though, since that would disqualify him as a disciple and destroy his case. Now lets us read Romans 6:14-15 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
I have proven that Paul has contradicted Jesus so your allegation above proves nothing. Romans 6:14-15, Romans 7:4-6 etc have clearly contradicted Matthew 5:17! Please read Romans 7:4-6 many times so that you can understand it. I have many examples to prove that Paul has contradicted Jesus. Here are two examples that show Paul has contradicted Jesus: 1) In Matthew 6:5-6 Jesus condemned public prayer but Paul encouraged public prayer in 1 Timothy 2:8. 2) Paul says: 1Cor.5 [7] For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed. Jesus says: Matt.9 [13] Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.'The conclusion is your Bible is corrupt. QUOTE Wiseguy, you keep coming up with arguments that backfire against yourself. Your allegation above reflects your personality. QUOTE If we take this statement of Yeshua as authentic, then you have just destroyed the prophetic claims of your prophet, since he declared war on nearly all the laws in the Torah. He broke almost all of the 10 commandments, by your own sources’ admission. Therefore, since Islam claims that he made things lawful that were prohibited before in the Torah and prohibited things that were considered prohibited before in the Torah, then he can’t be a prophet at all! You have confirmed why Muhammad was rejected as a prophet by Christians as well as Jews. You have become a slanderer again by inventing nonsensical fairy tales to slander the prophet Muhammad and me. Is this how you debate? It seems to me that you are a desperate Jewish Christian missionary.
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Expose Iran
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Aug 12 2008, 08:10 PM
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Why would Christians and Jews believe in all 66 books of the Bible but not the Qur'an? They say because the Qur'an contradicts many of the books of the Bible, but the books in the Bible contradict eachother so...
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packham
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Aug 13 2008, 04:24 AM
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QUOTE(Expose Iran @ Aug 13 2008, 06:10 AM) Why would Christians and Jews believe in all 66 books of the Bible but not the Qur'an? They say because the Qur'an contradicts many of the books of the Bible, but the books in the Bible contradict eachother so... As has been endlessly discussed in other threads, the Bible and the Koran are completely different in intention. The Bible is mainly a work of history and ethics, written by humans. It doesn't claim to be the direct word of god except in a few very rare instances. Being a human work it has contradictions and flaws - unlike the Koran it doesn't claim to be perfect. Pointing out apparent flaws in the Bible is not a good argument. Christians don't just reject the Koran as divine, they reject the Mahabharata, the Vedas, the Greek stories, the Norse stories, the Mayan stories, the Sikh holy books - etc. The alternatives aren't just Christianity and Islam. Just because the Koran uses some Biblical stories doesn't mean that Christians regard Islam as related to Christianity.
This post has been edited by packham: Aug 13 2008, 04:35 AM
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wiseguy
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Aug 13 2008, 08:16 AM
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QUOTE(packham @ Aug 13 2008, 04:24 AM) As has been endlessly discussed in other threads, the Bible and the Koran are completely different in intention. The Bible is mainly a work of history and ethics, written by humans. It doesn't claim to be the direct word of god except in a few very rare instances. Being a human work it has contradictions and flaws - unlike the Koran it doesn't claim to be perfect. Pointing out apparent flaws in the Bible is not a good argument.
Christians don't just reject the Koran as divine, they reject the Mahabharata, the Vedas, the Greek stories, the Norse stories, the Mayan stories, the Sikh holy books - etc. The alternatives aren't just Christianity and Islam. Just because the Koran uses some Biblical stories doesn't mean that Christians regard Islam as related to Christianity. On the contrary, we Muslims accept, love and respect all the prophets and messengers of Allah and we firmly believe that the original teachings of Moses (the Torah) and Jesus (the Injeel/Gospel) etc are the revelation from Allah (God) and the Holy Quran is the Final Testament from Allah to guide all mankind back to the true path of Allah: We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms. The Holy Quran 4:163 The keepers and writers of the Torah and Gospel have corrupted the present Torah and Gospels with their man-made cultural laws, that they had turned the Bible into a lie! Now we find that the Bible is corrupted and unreliable and is mostly filled with man-made laws and corruption! Even the Bible itself admits that the Bible is corrupt. "` How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)" The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: " How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)" Even the NT contradicts itself. Therefore, we clearly see that the Jews etc had so much corrupted the Bible with their man-made cultural laws, that they had turned the Bible into a lie! My question for you packham and Christians: Why does the Catholic Bible contain 73 books while the Protestant Bible has only 66? With both claiming to have the complete Word of God, which one should be believed and why? We Muslims accepts the content of the Bible that do not contradict the Holy Quran and Sunnah and we reject the content of the Bible that contradict the Holy Quran and Sunnah. The fact is Allah (God) is the All-Wise and All-Knowing so He will neither make any mistakes nor contradict Himself so the present Bible is not the Word of Allah (God) but the words of corrupt and immoral writers of the Bible. Therefore, Allah sent the Holy Quran through His last messenger the prophet Muhammad to all mankind to replace the corrupt Bible and guide all mankind to the true path of Allah (God).
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Expose Iran
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Aug 14 2008, 05:49 PM
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QUOTE(packham @ Aug 13 2008, 05:24 AM) As has been endlessly discussed in other threads, the Bible and the Koran are completely different in intention. The Bible is mainly a work of history and ethics, written by humans. It doesn't claim to be the direct word of god except in a few very rare instances. Being a human work it has contradictions and flaws - unlike the Koran it doesn't claim to be perfect. Pointing out apparent flaws in the Bible is not a good argument.
Christians don't just reject the Koran as divine, they reject the Mahabharata, the Vedas, the Greek stories, the Norse stories, the Mayan stories, the Sikh holy books - etc. The alternatives aren't just Christianity and Islam. Just because the Koran uses some Biblical stories doesn't mean that Christians regard Islam as related to Christianity. Most Christians actually believe the whole Bible has been inspired by God, as for those who only believe the parts that quote God are, then still there are many contradicitons in those parts too.
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