This is typical of Islamic reasoning: You accuse me of being a liar and a slanderer 3 times in 3 posts without any support of your claim and you accuse me of being a “disgusting slanderer“. I have NOT called you names, I have shown you that your own argument works against you. If your claims can’t stand to scrutiny and if you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Judging by your answers to my points, you pose no challenge whatsoever and I honestly don’t even consider you worthy of debating. You have shown nothing but a complete ignorance of the Tenach and subsequent Jewish beliefs that have flown from it. So my suggestion to you is for you to step up to the plate and deliver or step aside and let me debate others. You If you are going to waste my time like this, I would rather debate Redeem than you.

Oh now you are inventing nonsensical excuses now to avoid our debate after I have refuted your allegations again and again. You are slandering me again by making the baseless allegation above.

1) I say that you are a liar for you have tried to trick me into believing that the name of Jesus of the NT is mentioned by the OT or Tanakh. You use deceits and deceptions to mislead me but I know that you are lying.

2) I say that you are a slanderer because you have accused me of falsifying the Holy Quran. Do you know that I am a Muslim who firmly believe in the Holy Quran and Sunnah? Do you believe in the Holy Quran?

3) You are using Tanakh to deceive me but I know Tanakh and I have proven that you are a liar.

You are the one who have made the baseless allegation regarding Deutronomy 18:18 so you must defend your allegation OR admit that you are wrong. After all, you agree to debate with me on Deutronomy 18:18.

Now I ask you again: How can you say that Deutronomy 18:18 has prophesied the coming of Jesus when the OT does not mention Jesus by name? I am waiting for your answer.

As I have said before, I am refuting your allegation during our debate.



Once again you try to corrupt the OT ( the Hebrew Bible) by making a baseless allegation against it.

As I have said before, messiah is a title not Jesus's name. The word for “Messiah comes from the Hebrew root word, “Msh” which to “touch lightly” or “rub with oil”. Literally, Messiah means "The Anointed (One)", typically someone anointed with holy anointing oil. Figuratively, anointing is done to signify being chosen for a task; so, Messiah means "The Chosen (One)", particularly someone divinely chosen. In Standard Hebrew, The Messiah is often referred to as מלך המשיח, Méleḫ ha-Mašيaḥ, literally meaning "the Anointed King." This word is applied to Priests (Exodus 28:41), Kings (I Kings 19:16), and Prophets (I Samuel 12:5) who were chosen by God to accomplish specific tasks. In fact, the foreign King Cyrus of Persia is addressed as “Anointed”.

"Thus says the Lord to His anointed, To Cyrus, whose right hand I have held-To subdue nations before him And loose the armor of kings, To open before him the double doors, So that the gates will not be shut. Isaiah 45:1

The fact is you have failed to show me the name of Jesus of the NT in any parts of the OT (the Hebrew Bible). Therefore, you are wrong for trying to use the word 'Messiah' to trick me into believing that Jesus was prophesied by Deutronomy 18:18.



Based on the Bible, I am refuting your baseless allegation regarding Deutronomy 18:18. I am a Muslim who firmly believe in the Holy Quran and Sunnah so I will not contradict them. Do you believe in the Holy Quran and Sunnah? Will you accept the Holy Quran as a valid and reliable source? I will be glad to use the Holy Quran to support my argument if you believe in and accept the Holy Quran as a valid and reliable source.

Please remember that it is you , not the Holy Quran, are the one who are on trial for your baseless allegation regarding Deutronomy 18:18.



Your arrogant allegation proves nothing ! Your allegation regarding Deutronomy 18:18 blows in your own face when you have failed to prove that Deutronomy 18:18 has prophesied the coming of Jesus.

Now I ask you again: How can you say that Deutronomy 18:18 has prophesied the coming of Jesus when the OT does not mention Jesus by name? I am waiting for your answer.

wiseguy, you haven't proven anything but your sheer ignorance of the Tenach. You first challenged me to come up with the name of Yeshua in the Tenach. I provided you with the proof and you turn around and you demand that the name should point to the Messiah. I have told you that the Messiah isn't mentioned by name in the Tenach so therefore your question is totally irrelevant.




Provide the proof! Where did I accuse you of falsifying the Qur'an? I suggest you come up with hard evidence.



Again, you claim to know Tenach, but your reasoning shows that you know nothing about the Tenach.



Instead of beating around the bush, refute my analysis on Deut 18:18. You simply can't, that's why you are so reluctant to do so. I have told you over and over again, that the Messiah is not mentioned by name in the Tenach. That means that it's not in the Torah either. So stop asking the same redundant question and address my analysis on Deut 18: 18 and show us how baseless my arguments are. If you don't answer in the next post, then I will stop debating you on this topic. I have better things to do.

Your prophet simply isn't in the Bible. ANYWHERE!

Nakdimon

My Post #77 and Post #79 have refuted your allegation above.



In your post 78, you have said "Lastly, even if the names in the Hebrew Bible don’t refer to the Messiah Yeshua, his name is still there". However, my Post #79 and Post #83 have refuted your allegation.



In your post 78, you said "Which that this criterion of yours falsifies the Quran, since it claims that Yeshua was the Messiah, which, again according to your criterion, doesn’t exist."

It seems to me that your own words have betrayed you.



Your arrogant allegation above proves nothing.



I have refuted all of your past allegations in the past posts. And I am refuting your allegations during our debate. The fact is Deutronomy 18:18 does not mention Jesus by name so you are wrong to say that Deutronomy 18:18 prophesies the coming of Jesus. If you claim that Jesus is a Messiah, there were so many Messiahs mentioned in the OT and Jesus was nowhere in the OT or Deu. 18:18 !!!



It is too early for you to make a wrong conclusion. As I have said before, our debate would be a long one.

Now I ask you again: How can you say that Deutronomy 18:18 has prophesied the coming of Jesus when the OT does not mention Jesus by name? I am waiting for your answer.

Deutronomy 18:18 says "I WILL RAISE THEM UP A PROPHET FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN LIKE UNTO THEE..." The emphasize is on the words-- "From among their brethren." Moses and his people, the Jews are here addressed as a racial entity , and as such their 'brethren' would undoubtedly be the Arabs.

The prophet Muhammad is a descendant of the prophet Ishmael who is the first born son of the prophet Abraham. The Holy Bible speaks of Abraham as the "Friend of God". Abraham had two wives - Sarah and Hagar. Hagar bore Abraham a son- HIS FIRST-BORN- ".....And Abraham called HIS SON'S name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.' (Genesis 16: 15). And Abraham took Ishmael HIS SON..." (Genesis 17:23). 'And Ishmael HIS SON was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.' (Genesis 17:25) Up to the ago THIRTEEN Ishmael was the ONLY son and see of Abraham, when the covenant was ratified between God and Abraham.

God grants Abraham another son through Sarah, named Isaac, who was very much the junior to his brother Ishmael. Through Abraham’s second son, Isaac, came all Israelite prophets including such towering figures as Jacob, Joseph, Moses, David, Solomon and Jesus. May peace and blessings be upon them all. The advent of these great prophets was in partial fulfillment of God’s promises to bless the nations of earth through the descendants of Abraham (Genesis 12:2-3). Such fulfillment is wholeheartedly accepted by Muslims whose faith considers the belief in and respect of all prophets an article of faith.

Was the first born son of Abraham (Ishmael) and his descendants included in God’s covenant and promise? A few verses from the Bible may help shed some light on this question:

1) Genesis 12:2-3 speaks of God’s promise to Abraham and his descendants before any child was born to him.

2) Genesis 17:4 reiterates God’s promise after the birth of Ishmael and before the birth of Isaac.

3) In Genesis, ch. 21, Isaac is specifically blessed, but Ishmael was also specifically blessed and promised by God to become “a great nation,” especially in Genesis 21:13, 18.

4) According to Deuteronomy 21:15-17, the traditional rights and privileges of the first born son are not to be affected by the social status of his mother (being a free woman such as Sarah, Isaac’s mother, or a “maidservant” as Hagar, Ishmael’s mother). This is only consistent with the moral and humanitarian principles of all revealed faiths.

5) The full legitimacy of Ishmael as Abraham’s son and “offspring” and the full legitimacy of his mother, Hagar, as Abraham’s wife, are clearly stated in Genesis 21:13 and 16:3.

If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham, then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN of the children of the other. The children to one another. The Bible affirms, 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) SHALL DWELL IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.' (Genesis 25: 18). The children of Isaac are the brethren of the Ishmaelities. In like manner Muhammad is from among the brethren of the Israelities because he was a descendant of Ishmael, the of Abraham. This is exactly as the prophecy has it- "FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN'. (Deut. 18:18). There the prophecy distinctly mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must arise NOT from the ' children of Israel' or from 'among themselves', but from among their brethren. MUHAMMAD THEREFORE WAS FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN!

Following the rejection of the last Israelite prophet, Jesus, it was about time that God’s promise to make Ishmael a great nation be fulfilled (Genesis 21:13, 18).

Jesus said: “Therefore I tell you that the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.” (Matthew 21:43). Those people among Ishmael’s descendants (the rejected stone in Matthew 21:42) who were victorious against all superpowers of their time as prophesied by Jesus: “He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.” (Matthew 21:44).

After Jesus, the last Israelite messenger and prophet, it was time that God’s promise to bless Ishmael and his descendants be fulfilled. Less than 600 years after Jesus, came the last messenger of God, Muhammad , from the progeny of Abraham through Ishmael. God’s blessings for both of the main branches of Abraham’s family tree were now fulfilled.

NOTE: To be continued

"Allah" is arabic for "God"

Yes, Allah means THE GOD, while Elah (Eloh) means just god. Elohim also means THE GOD (the "im" at the end being a sign of repsect)