This is a short debate occurred between a brother on one side and a governmental scholar and his student on the other side, and see how he was refuted so easily..
Note.. this conversation below has been edited and compiled, so it did not happen exactly as written.. but generally it happened that way.
G. S.: The one who rules by non-Islamic law is not a Kafir, he is only a sinner.. as ibn Abbass (raa) stated as a commentary for verse (05:44).
My friend: Ok, that is fine.. what do you say about the national constitution that people seek judgement from?
G.S.: It is a Taghout worshipped instead of Allah (swt).
Me: Then what do you call the one who forces people to seek judgement from it, and punishs them if they violate its verdicts, and forbids them from being judged by Islam?
G.S.: Dumbfounded like a coward!
I would share with you this short debate with a Taqlidi person, and show you how to refute them.
Taqlidi: We must follow the great Imams in their Fatawa for they are more knowledgable than us, and understand the evidences more than us.
Salafi: Ok, but do you think these "great Imams" may fall into mistakes?
Taqlidi: Yes, of course, everyone does mistakes, except the prophets of Allah (pbut).
Salaf: that's good. Will Allah (swt) punish these Imams if they fall into errors?
Taqlidi: not as long as they follow the evidences, and do their bests to obey Allah (swt).
Salafi: So, regarding the matter of excusing, is it a condition that these Imams must know ALL the evidences in the matter they issue a Fatwa in to be excused before Allah (swt) if they fall into errors? or is it sufficient for them to just have an evidence to follow?
Taqlidi: No one can ever get the whole evidences regarding every matter.. The main thing in the matter of excuse is that they must have an evidence for every Fatwa they issue, as long as it does not corrupt the fundamentals of Islam.. this is the only condition they must achieve to be excused before Allah (swt).. And we have many examples from the Salaf about falling into mistakes for following one evidence and missing others, but they are excused insha'Allah for their intention to follow the truth.
Salafi: These are great words my dear.. Now let me ask you another question. If a Taqlidi ignorant was told an authentic Hadith, and he ensured its authenticity, should he then follow that Hadith or follow what his Imam says?
Taqlidi: He must follow his Imam, because his Imam is more knowledgable than him, and understands the Hadiths better than him.
Salafi: What if he follows the Hadith and rejects his Imam's words? Will he fall into sins?
Taqlidi: No, he will not, unless his misunderstanding of the Hadith will corrupt a fundamental of Islam, then yes.. but also because he is an ignorant he most probably fall into mistakes because he is not knowledgable.
Salafi: I agree with you in this point.. So here we get this ignorant EXCUSED if he follows the Hadith in the intention to follow the truth.. So for what reason you say Taqleed is a Wajib (obligotary)?
Taqlidi: I do not say it is a Wajib, I say it is recommended.
Salafi: Is it recommended to reject the words of Allah (swt) and the words of His Prophet (saas) and follow the words of the humans that might be right or wrong?? What kind of recommendation is this?.. The one who follows the evidences is not in danger, but rather it is the one who follows the Imams blindly and taks them as prophets, and not listen to anyone who speaks with the words of Allah (swt) and the words of His Prophet (saas)..
There is an incident occurred to one of the Sunnis scholars in Makkah.
He went to Hajj and found a man doing some mistakes in Hajj actions. He told him you are doing wrong! The Prophet (saas) said such and scuh.. That man replied: but Imam Malik (ra) said it to be this way!.. The scholar said: I am telling you a Sahih Hadith from Sahih Bukhari, and you are rejecting it for the words of Imam Malik??.. The man replied: Listen, I will reject everything you say to me, even if they are authentic Hadiths, as long as Imam Malik (ra) did not say it.. The scholar said: Sorry, I just thought I was speaking to a Muslim!!!! Then he left him..
Do you see how Taqlid might lead to apostasy??
Taqlid is one of the main reasons of delusion and heresy in this era.. Once you ask a Sufi, why do not you listen to the truth?? He answers: I am following my Imam.. Shia answer the same.. every deviant and heretic closes his ears and just blindly follow their Imams.. and you are promoting the same doctrine.. so do not blame them and do not call them to the true Islam since they believe in the Taqlid you are calling to..
Wa Alhamdulillah Rabbil Aalameen
This one is a good one:
How to refute Murje'a in 60 seconds [Imaam al-Thahabee's Style]
Said al-Imaam, al-Mu'arrikh, al-Haafith, Shams ad-Deen Aboo 'Abdillaah Muhammad ibn Ahmad ibn 'Uthmaan al-Thahabee, may the Mercy of Allaah be upon him:
?...if you see a follower of the Path of Tawheed, saying, ?Leave us alone regarding the texts and the logic. We want (to follow) tastes and emotions!? - Then know that he is Iblees who has appeared in the form of a human, or that Iblees has possessed him. So if you are a coward, then flee away. If not, then throw him down on the ground, kneel down upon his chest, recite upon him Aayat al-Kursee [Soorah al-Baqarah: 255], and strangle him.?
Refer to Siyar A?laam an-Nubalaa? of al-Thahabee (4/472).
How to refute a governmental spy murjiah in a milisecond!
STRIKE THE TAGHUT WORSHIPPER WITH A SHARP SWORD BETWEEN HIS TEETH BEFORE HE CAN EVEN OPEN HIS MOUTH!
A very simple debate to refute Murje'a.
Murje: Anyone who commits Kufr we cannot call a Kafir, because we do not know what is inside his heart.. we do not know his intention.. call him Fasiq.. call him all bad names but NOT Kafir.
Salafi: Ok, let me ask you a question!
Salafi: If I commit adultery, will you call me adulterer?
Murje: Yes, for sure!
Salafi: Will I be a Fasiq? no matter what my intention is?
Murje: Yes, you will be called a Fasiq whatever intention you have.. unless you do not know it is Haraam.
Salafi: no one spoke about ignorance my dear, I am speaking about someone knows adultery is Haraam and he commits it.
Murje: Yes, go on.
Salafi: And will I bear the sin of adultery? and be punished for adultery?
Murje: Yes, of course.
Salafi: Does my intention matter here? For example: I have committed adultery in my wife's absence, to strengthen my body in worshipping Allah (swt). Will this matter?
Murje: No, it does not. You have committed adultery knowing it is Haraam, and you will be punished for it.
Salafi: ok, why do we call some actions Kufr and some Fisq? What is the difference since all are considered sins?
Murje: These are the levels of sins. The sin of Kufr is graver than the sin of Fisq.
Salafi: Ok, let me quote the verse that categorizes the types of sins.
Allah (swt) said:
Ã¦Ã³Ã‡ÃšÃºÃ¡Ã³Ã£ÃµÃ¦Ã‡ ÃƒÃ³Ã¤Ã¸Ã³ ÃÃ¶ÃÃŸÃµÃ£Ãº Ã‘Ã³Ã“ÃµÃ¦Ã¡Ã³ Ã‡Ã¡Ã¡Ã¸Ã³Ã¥Ã¶ Ã¡Ã³Ã¦Ãº ÃÃµÃ˜Ã¶ÃÃšÃµÃŸÃµÃ£Ãº ÃÃ¶Ã ÃŸÃ³Ã‹Ã¶ÃÃ‘Ã² Ã£Ã¸Ã¶Ã¤Ã³ Ã‡Ã¡ÃºÃƒÃ³Ã£ÃºÃ‘Ã¶ Ã¡Ã³ÃšÃ³Ã¤Ã¶ÃŠÃ¸ÃµÃ£Ãº Ã¦Ã³Ã¡Ã³ÃŸÃ¶Ã¤Ã¸Ã³ Ã‡Ã¡Ã¡Ã¸Ã³Ã¥Ã³ ÃÃ³ÃˆÃ¸Ã³ÃˆÃ³ Ã…Ã¶Ã¡Ã³ÃÃºÃŸÃµÃ£Ãµ Ã‡Ã¡ÃºÃ…Ã¶ÃÃ£Ã³Ã‡Ã¤Ã³ Ã¦Ã³Ã’Ã³ÃÃ¸Ã³Ã¤Ã³Ã¥Ãµ ÃÃ¶Ã ÃžÃµÃ¡ÃµÃ¦ÃˆÃ¶ÃŸÃµÃ£Ãº Ã¦Ã³ÃŸÃ³Ã‘Ã¸Ã³Ã¥Ã³ Ã…Ã¶Ã¡Ã³ÃÃºÃŸÃµÃ£Ãµ Ã‡Ã¡ÃºÃŸÃµÃÃºÃ‘Ã³ Ã¦Ã³Ã‡Ã¡ÃºÃÃµÃ“ÃµÃ¦ÃžÃ³ Ã¦Ã³Ã‡Ã¡ÃºÃšÃ¶Ã•ÃºÃÃ³Ã‡Ã¤Ã³ ÃƒÃµÃ¦ÃºÃ¡Ã³Ã†Ã¶ÃŸÃ³ Ã¥ÃµÃ£Ãµ Ã‡Ã¡Ã‘Ã¸Ã³Ã‡Ã”Ã¶ÃÃµÃ¦Ã¤Ã³ [Ã‡Ã¡ÃÃŒÃ‘Ã‡ÃŠ : 7]
(49:07). And know that the messenger of Allah is among you. If he were to obey you in much of the government, ye would surely be in trouble; but Allah hath endeared the faith to you and hath beautified it in your hearts, and hath made Kufr (i.e. disbelief) and Fusooq (i.e. lewdness) and Isyaan (i.e. rebellion) hateful unto you. Such are they who are rightly guided.
These are the levels of sins in Islam.. Kufr on the top, Fisq or Fusooq in the middle, and Isyaan in the bottom.
Now tell me, if I commit Isyaan, such as: I kiss a girl.. will I bear the sin of Fusooq?
Murje: No, you will bear the sin of Isyaan.
Salafi: and if I commit adultery, will I bear the sin of Isyaan?
Murje: no, you will bear the sin of Fusooq.
Salafi: ok, according to what we have discussed.. the one who commits Kufr, what kind of sins will he bear?
Murje: The sin of Kufr.
Salafi: Then how can you call the bearer of the sin of Kufr a Fasiq?
Murje: no answer!
Salafi: Ok, and you said I would be punished for adultery, which is stoning! With what the one who commits Kufr will be punished? with stoning or killing?
Salafi: So? You have admitted that he will bear the sin of Kufr (no matter what his intention is) and he will be punished with the punishment of renegades.. is not this the judgement of Kufr on him?
Murje: no answer!