71 replies to this topic

[Chris]

Peace Stranger

Sorry my a.m detailed answer was for CarlosTheJackal instead of Chris - I aplogize Chris

No problem, I was abit concerned when I read your post and wondered what I'd said!

Can anybody be sure, be positive who wrote the Bible. Unlike the Quran which has been protected, we do not have any early, detailed manuscripts of the Bible old or New Testament. All we can say is what we know from Quran. Yes about the corruptions but also that, Moses, David and Jesus were given scripture and are named. What we don't know, but can surmise, is whether the words in the Bible of these 3 Prophets are the words given to them. One day God Willing we will find out.

Peace

Chris

[CarlosTheJackal]

Can anybody be sure, be positive who wrote the Bible.

Yes we can be sure who wrote the Bible:

Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy = Moses - 1400 B.C.
Joshua = Joshua - 1350 B.C.
Judges, Ruth, 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel = Samuel / Nathan / Gad - 1000 - 900 B.C.
1 Kings, 2 Kings = Jeremiah - 600 B.C.
1 Chronicles, 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah = Ezra - 450 B.C.
Esther = Mordecai - 400 B.C.
Job = Moses - 1400 B.C.
Psalms = several different authors, mostly David - 1000 - 400 B.C.
Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon = Solomon - 900 B.C.
Isaiah = Isaiah - 700 B.C.
Jeremiah, Lamentations = Jeremiah - 600 B.C.
Ezekiel = Ezekiel - 550 B.C.
Daniel = Daniel - 550 B.C.
Hosea = Hosea - 750 B.C.
Joel = Joel - 850 B.C.
Amos = Amos - 750 B.C.
Obadiah = Obadiah - 600 B.C.
Jonah = Jonah - 700 B.C.
Micah = Micah - 700 B.C.
Nahum = Nahum - 650 B.C.
Habakkuk = Habakkuk - 600 B.C.
Zephaniah = Zephaniah - 650 B.C.
Haggai = Haggai - 520 B.C.
Zechariah = Zechariah - 500 B.C.
Malachi = Malachi - 430 B.C.
Matthew = Matthew - A.D. 55
Mark = John Mark - A.D. 50
Luke = Luke - A.D. 60
John = John - A.D. 90
Acts = Luke - A.D. 65
Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon = Paul - A.D. 50-70
Hebrews = Paul - 65 A.D.
James = James - A.D. 45
1 Peter, 2 Peter = Peter - A.D. 60
1 John, 2 John, 3 John = John - A.D. 90
Jude = Jude - A.D. 60
Revelation = John - A.D. 90


Grace and peace be with you,

[CarlosTheJackal]

But there is no doubt that the Qur'an clearly states that they were changed, and even mentions who did it.

My apologies Redeem I'm a little slow but can you please provide specific name/s of who changed it?

Grace and peace be with you,

[CarlosTheJackal]

It seems no one is able to answer the above question that I have asked a few times over. Therefore I’ll assume Muslims have no historical evidence to support their claim the Bible has been changed. The only source Muslims use is what’s contained in the Quran nothing more…

[Stranger01]

It seems no one is able to answer the above question that I have asked a few times over. Therefore I’ll assume Muslims have no historical evidence to support their claim the Bible has been changed. The only source Muslims use is what’s contained in the Quran nothing more…

====================
[size=4]
HI C.T. Jackal[using large font size is not allowed]

Have u guys searched The HOT MOST video now-a-days in GOOGLE named " Who wrote the Bible?"


Look CRYSTAL CLEAR CORRUPTION IN BIBLES:

Who incited David to count the fighting men of israel?
(a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)
(b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary?
(a) Jacob (Matthew 1:16)
(b) Hell (Luke 3:23)

A BOOK of GOD cannot have such contradictions.
But u STUBBORN still say it is word of God.
================================

SEE CORRUPTION IN so called BIBLES?

CAN A BOOK OF GOD HAVE SUCH CONTRADICTIONS???

Who was the father of Shealtiel?
(a) Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12)
(b) Neri’ (Luke 3:27)

How many generations were there from the Babylonian exile until Christ?
(a) Matthew says fourteen (Matthew 1:17)
(b) But a careful count of the generations reveals only thirteen (see Matthew 1: 12-16)

Stubborn say, it is word of God?
===========================

SEE CORRUPTION IN so called BIBLES?

CAN A BOOK OF GOD HAVE SUCH CONTRADICTIONS???

Did Jesus allow his disciples to keep a staff on their journey?
(a) Yes(Mark6:8)
(b) No (Matthew 10:9; Luke 9:3)

Did Jesus bear his own cross?
(a) Yes (John 19:17)
(b) No (Matthew 27:31-32)

Stubborn say, it is word of God?
====================================

What corrupted bibles say about the event of attempted crucifixion?

So should u believe in conflicting crucifixion stories told in man-made corrupted bibles?

The gospels say that two thieves were crucified along with Jesus. Did both thieves mock Jesus?
(a) Yes (Mark 15:32)
(b) No. One of them mocked Jesus, the other defended Jesus (Luke 23:43)

Did Jesus pray to The Father to prevent the crucifixion?
(a) Yes. (Matthew 26:39; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42)
(b) No. (John 12:27)

When woman give male birth, she is unclean for 40 day & if she give female birth, she is unclean for 80 day. To disinfect a home, take blood of a bird and sprinkle it in ur home. A believer if eats deadly poison, will not die & will speak many tongues. To test a person if adulterer or not, throw bitter water on him, and if he/she is, his/her belly & glands will come out. This is wrtn in man-made bibles & still they believe them. Pork fat has locked their brain & have made them dumb deaf & blind


These are a few examples. I do not want to misuse the forum, other wise I can post here additional thousands examples.

So My Friend! Do u stlll believe that Bible is not Corrupted, and When Quran was saying about forgery, It was saying about Buddhist or Hindu scriptures or books of chemistry and physics, and not about Forged Bibles??????????

[CarlosTheJackal]

Hi Stranger,

I didn’t ask you to quote from the Bible, I asked who was responsible for allegedly changing the Bible…

Grace and peace be with you,

[Stranger01]

Hi Stranger,

I didn’t ask you to quote from the Bible, I asked who was responsible for allegedly changing the Bible…

Grace and peace be with you,

=======================

Thanks Carlos

Eisa/Jesus had only a few disciples (not 10s of thousand like with Muhammad (S) & even they left Jesus in difficult time. So original Aramaic bible (Injeel) never existed right after Jesus. The books such as of Mark Mathew Luke & John & other 72 conflicting editions & doctrines are fake production of these priests, Paul, & Council of Nicea 325 A.D. What ever was existing, later was edited and changed again and again. At the beginning no one was aware who wrote presently circulating 4 bibles. The names Mark Mathew Luke and Jone were attached later to them

ONE OF THE GREATEST SCHOLARS of Bibles Dr. Constantine von Tischendorf, who aft having personally examined the original hand written copies of the oldest available Four Gospels hv quoted:

“tht the texts for the physical ascension of Jesus to heaven or Jesus being carried by the angels to heaven, are lacking in these ancient documents. The texts tht are found within the published copies of the circulating gospels on the subject of the physical ascension of Jesus hv been added centuries later"

An honest truth seeker does not need a Ph.D in theology to understand the truth that If u read Quran, thru out in Quran, Allah (Some say God) is addressing humans directly or through Muhammad (S). On the contrary, when u read so called bibles, u will read thru out in these priest's authored books "Jesus said this and Jesus said that etc". No where in these man-made books God seems to address people.

Have u watched a very interesting & informative THE HOTTEST NOW a Days a vido launched by a Christian Academic Theologian?

Go to google and type in search box "Who Wrote the Bible?". It will be fist hit at the top of page (1:45 hr video)

U will fully get the answer for ur Question

PEACE

[CarlosTheJackal]

Hi Stranger,

Thanks for responding.

Firstly, St Paul had nothing to do with the Gospels written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. He wrote letters to the early converts about different matters concerning the Church. Therefore he had nothing with the 4 accounts of the Gospel.

Secondly, The Council of Nicaea was called into session to defend the Church against allegations denying the Divinity of Christ led by Arius. Arius was a heretic. There is no evidence to suggest Bishops added in anything in the Bible during the council unless you can show me otherwise.

Thirdly, Dr Tischendorf’s works do not coincide with the majority of Bible scholars, therefore his conclusions are questionable.

In conclusion Stranger you must take into consideration we Christians are not as Mohamed puts it “the people of the book”. We have three pillars of truth sacred scripture, sacred tradition and the magestrium. The Bible cannot be read alone, it must be read in light of our sacred tradition guided by the magestrium. That’s the way it was from the beginning and that’s the way it remains. Our teaching does not solely depend on the Bible alone.

Grace and peace be with you,

[CarlosTheJackal]

In addition the Church contains 14,700 ancient manuscripts of the New Testament found from varying sources and locations that agree with the Bible we have today.

The early Church Fathers (1st – 3rd century AD) have quoted from the New Testament exactly 36,289 times that can be found in the New Testament we have today.

We have 1st century Jewish historian Josephus recorded in his writings the death and Resurrection of Christ

We have 2nd century Roman historian Tacitus recorded in his writings about the death of Christ.

I can go on and on but the point is to claim the Bible has been changed is an empty argument with no historical proof …



Grace and peace be with you,

[mrhyder]

It seems no one is able to answer the above question that I have asked a few times over. Therefore I’ll assume Muslims have no historical evidence to support their claim the Bible has been changed. The only source Muslims use is what’s contained in the Quran nothing more…

hi carlos why doest it matter who changed or corrupted the bible. May be the church might have an answer for you. Do you think that Bible has not been changed? Word of God should not have
any contradictions and bible has many which many Christian scholars will tell you. The contradictions in the bible tell that it's been changed.

[CarlosTheJackal]

I don’t know about you guys but the above information suffices to prove the Bible remains unchanged.

It would be impossible to change every single manuscript ever written that has been spread throughout the world. There is no evidence of an original Gospel written before being allegedly corrupt.

The Dead Sea Scrolls which is around 2000 years old discovered in 11 caves (by a Muslim I might add) is all the more proof the Bible remains unchanged.

If all you can give me is “there are contradictions in the Bible therefore it is not the word of God” by throwing in verses out of context then it’s plain obvious you are living your faith by ignorance because you are ignoring the above facts. I can easily throw in verses from the Quran out of context and make it appear there are contradictions. It’s a waste of time throwing verses at each other.

Again I reaffirm my position…to say the Bible has been changed sounds like a cover up to accommodate the Quranic teachings and quite frankly complete garbage when there are no historical facts to back it up.


Grace and peace be with you,

[twoswordali]

well what happened at the nicene council with costantine?? Why were the people who followed Jesus being killed when they preached Jesus not being divine as how the romans were doing? The Bible does have words taken out and put in as well, also the Bible was written in a coded language as to protect the teaching but that plan failed and the majority of Bible scholars know this. The dead sea scrolls is proof of this, goa and read the dead sea scrolls and see for your self, scrolls that were hidden to protect the teachings of Christ. Also the gospel of Judas what about that?? Many things were taken out of the Bible especially during the consantine era, question is where is all of that info that was taken out??? and why did Jesus become like other gods in greek mythology?? Alot of good christians were killed because of this because they stood up to the wrong that they were doing. The Language was put in code to try and protect it, here is an example of the coded language

1st Corinthians:
17-28

For Christ sent me NOT to baptize ,but to preach the Gospe; NOT WITH WISDOM OF WORDS LEST THE CROSS OF CHRIST SHOULD BE MADE OF NONE EFECT.

For the PREACHING of the CROSS is to them that perish foolishness but unto us which are saved it is the power of God

19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty

[mrhyder]

Hi Carlos,

I know we cannot convince you that bibles been changed; but I will tell you this, its not the Muslims that changed the Bible. If you need proof, that its been changed. Here's a video of an ex-priest about what he found changed, I am sure a search on Google will produce more.

[CarlosTheJackal]

Hi Twoswordali,

You tell me what happen at the Council of Nicaea?

The Church never preached Jesus was not divine and the Bible is living proof of that. If you want more proof here is a passage from St. Ignatius of Antioch addressing the Romans 110 AD. St Ignatius was the student of St John the Gospel writer found in the Bible:

“Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church that has found mercy in
the greatness of the Most High Father and in Jesus Christ, His only Son: to
the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God,
by the will of Him that has willed everything which is: to the Church also
which holds the presidency in the place of the country of the Romans ... To
those who are united in flesh and in spirit by every commandment of His”

Did you notice something? He addressed Jesus Christ as “God”. Are you going to tell me this letter has been corrupted too?

See this is the thing you have no historical proof the Bible has been changed yet you stand by word that it has been changed with no evidence…

Grace and peace be with you,

[CarlosTheJackal]

BTW – Scholars have found the Dead Sea Scrolls to be identical with the Bible we have today. Where do you get your source the Dead Sea Scrolls conflicts with the Bible?

Grace and peace be with you,

[twoswordali]

Hi Twoswordali,

You tell me what happen at the Council of Nicaea?

they changed the bible, took words out ,put words in, threw away parts of scriptures, Made Jesus divine and also made him just like other greek gods, greek mythology was fused with Jesus.

The Church never preached Jesus was not divine and the Bible is living proof of that. If you want more proof here is a passage from St. Ignatius of Antioch addressing the Romans 110 AD. St Ignatius was the student of St John the Gospel writer found in the Bible:

“Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church that has found mercy in
the greatness of the Most High Father and in Jesus Christ, His only Son: to
the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God,
by the will of Him that has willed everything which is: to the Church also
which holds the presidency in the place of the country of the Romans ... To
those who are united in flesh and in spirit by every commandment of His”

Did you notice something? He addressed Jesus Christ as “God”. Are you going to tell me this letter has been corrupted too?

Please show me where in the Bible Jesus addresses himself as "GOD", Please dont tell me what you can derive out of certain verses, please show me where he says Iam GOD period that will settle it for me. , He calls himself the son of man or the son of God, however the term son of God is not nothing special, why?? Because if one were to follow Moses laws (which Jesus says hes he is here to uphold) if one were to call himself God or the son of God then that statement is blasphemous punishable by death by being stoned.

In john 10:31-34, When the Jews came to stone Jesus ,Jesus said " I have shown you from my father many wonderful works for which of these do stone me??" The jews said for good works we donot stone you but for Blasphemy and because You being a man, make yourself God.

Now right here and right now Jesus could have said that yes i am God or yes I am the son of god here to die for your sins then the matter would have been settled at once. He could have been stoned to death and instead of people wearing crosses they would be wearing stones nowdays. But what does Jesus say, when he is confronted with these Jews who want to stone him.. Jesus answered them"Is it not written in your law "I said you are gods"" In another translation"is it not written we are all sons of God?".... So here Jesus is confronted with the fact that he is breaking the Law by saying that he is the son of God or that he is a god he turns it right around and says hey.. we are all sons of God thats what the torah says.

Nowhere does Jesus makes himself divine so why does other people make him divine?? When its blasphemy to call your self a god or the Personal son of God. Jesus showed them how they misunderstood him and his mission and every time they came to try and shut him down he used common sense to put them in their place. Jesus was not a liar, he was not one to practice deception, so if he was divine or he was the Personal son of God he would have said it, but he didnt so who went against Jesus's teachings and made him into Gods personal son or worst made him into a God??....This came during the nicene council when Jesus was made divine and if anybody did it before nicea they would still be going against Jesus.


22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men

From these verses we see that to preach Christ crucified is a stumblingblock to the Jews and to the gREEKS FOOLISHNESS Here we have scripture being put into codes to try and preserve it,

See this is the thing you have no historical proof the Bible has been changed yet you stand by word that it has been changed with no evidence…Grace and peace be with you,

Yes the nicene council is just one of the proofs, the fact that Jesus never says that he is God, now what about the gospel of Judas????

Edited by twoswordali, 25 November 2008 - 12:54 AM.

[CarlosTheJackal]

As I said the council of Nicaea did not change the Bible. Where is your proof? All you’re giving me is an empty argument with no evidence…

If you do some research you will see the reason the council was called into session primarily was to defend the Church against heretical claims that Jesus Christ was not divine and hence they formulated the Nicene Creed. Arius was a heretic that started most of the trouble to which a few centuries later Mohammed resurrected this heresy.

I have shown you evidence recorded by Jewish and Roman historians of Christ’s crucifixion; a fact that Mohammed denied he might as well have denied the history of Julius Caesar while he was at it.

If you’re so convinced that Council of Nicaea changed anything from the Bible give me evidence to support it.

Did the council also change the 14700 manuscripts found all over world dated before the council?

Oh by the way you claim there are no passages in the Bible that say plainly Jesus is the Son of God…

“Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?"
[62] And Jesus said, "I am; and you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62

“Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God!" – Matthew 16:16 (If you read on you will see Jesus does not deny this claim but blesses St Peter

“IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” John 1:1 If you read it says “and Word became flesh and dwelt among us”

Is that plain enough for you?

Again all you have is the Quran with no historical evidence to support it. I believe you are living your faith in ignorance because the difference between us is we have historical and archaeological proof…you don’t.

Anyway this discussion is not getting us anywhere. It’s obvious we are standing our ground and will not move…

Grace and peace be with you,

[twoswordali]

As I said the council of Nicaea did not change the Bible. Where is your proof? All you’re giving me is an empty argument with no evidence…

If you do some research you will see the reason the council was called into session primarily was to defend the Church against heretical claims that Jesus Christ was not divine and hence they formulated the Nicene Creed. Arius was a heretic that started most of the trouble to which a few centuries later Mohammed resurrected this heresy.

Arius along with many others left the council because of what they was doing to the religion of Jesus they was fusing it with greek mythology go look at the movie Zeitgeist look at Jesus is so similar to many of the Greek gods. I have researched the Nicene counsil very well, All you have to do is look at the state of constanoplis at that time and the rift between the pagans and the Christians and you will see that after the council of nicaea that greek mytology was fused with christianity.

I have shown you evidence recorded by Jewish and Roman historians of Christ’s crucifixion; a fact that Mohammed denied he might as well have denied the history of Julius Caesar while he was at it.

Many of the greek gods were crucified as well, the crucifixion is not the physical death of Jesus it is bragging that was done by the Jews their claim that they killed Jesus, they killed his dotrine or so they thought.

If you’re so convinced that Council of Nicaea changed anything from the Bible give me evidence to support it.

The council of nicaea is proof of what happened to the Bible. How can you deny that the Bible never had words taken out or words put in when every priest would tell you that yes this has happened to the Bible, Bibles were burned Good Christians were killed because they followed Jesus, haven't you ever wondered why 1000s of christian priest were killed 1000s of scholars killed, heritics you say ???

Oh by the way you claim there are no passages in the Bible that say plainly Jesus is the Son of God…

I said that nowhere in the Bible does Jesus say that He is God !! Show me where he says I am God. If you belive that he is God then surely you can find 1 verse where Jesus says I am God. Ive already shown you that to be called the son of God is really no big deal amongst the Jews because in the Torah it says we are all sons of God its the same as saying we all belong to God and i can except that language. Thats why they couldnt stone him, or did you not read the passage that i have given you above??

“Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?"
[62] And Jesus said, "I am; and you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62

The son of the blessed of course he is the son of the blessed. He recieved deep insight into the reading of scriptures hes teaching people Gods words his mother was a holy woman his grandfather was a holy man his father Joseph was a holy man. Jesus was blessed to recive good guidance from God so was his parents and his family, was he the son of the blessed? he sure was. Now why do you neglect what he says next he says yes im the son of the blessed(meaning the blessings that he has recieved) and then he says that you will see THE SON OF MAN seated at the right hand of power not the personal son of God or God himself but THE SON OF MAN.

“Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God!" – Matthew 16:16 (If you read on you will see Jesus does not deny this claim but blesses St Peter

We have already established that son of God does not mean the personal son of God if it did then Jesus would have been stoned to death.

“IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” John 1:1 If you read it says “and Word became flesh and dwelt among us”

Yes heres where i agree, Jesus is the word of God and that word became flesh. When ever we read Gods word it should be manifested whithin side of us, Gods word should become part of us. Jesus was highly enlightened by Gods words he became Gods word in the flesh meaning he lived the word of God i accept this as well. Muhammad was the Quran walking but he wasnt God in the flesh no he was the WORD of God walking and so was Jesus, he was the word of God walking I agree.

Again all you have is the Quran with no historical evidence to support it. I believe you are living your faith in ignorance because the difference between us is we have historical and archaeological proof…you don’t.

No we have the Quran and the Bible and evidence to support it and common sense supports it as well. Heres somthing that i give to all my Christian friends to ponder on,.. .answer them if you can..

1.If Jesus is the physical son of God and Mary was not married to God then that makes Jesus the ###### son of God.

2. Heres another one .. if God had a baby with mary and Jesus is the only BEGOTTON SON of God then God broke his own commandment and had spirtual fornication or some sort of fornication with Mary and got her pregnent...

3.If Jesus is God when God was a baby he crapped himself, Gods come to die for your sins to save you yet he couldnt even wipe his own behind?? he couldnt save himself form smellimg like do do.but hes going to save the world?

4.If Jesus is God then God had a penis and at that time there were men at the time Jesus was a baby, so a man can easily say that they had a bigger penis than God.5.

5. Not only that, God was a Jew so please tell me what man circumcised God what man had the privilege of touching Gods penis???

6.Jesus was breast fed so your telling me that God sucked on breast?

7.God knows all and heres all an he knows everthing yet your saying that Jesus is God but the devil tempted Jesus meaning that he thought about something that the devil suggested to him, so the devil tempted God??

8 While on the cross to die for your sins and he knew of this mission, Jesus says Father why has thou forsaken me?? Yeah this really sounds like somebody who knew that he was going to die for your sins.

9. Nowhere and i mean NOWHERE DOES JESUS EVER SAY IN THE BIBLE THAT I AM GOD!!

10. God says 1000s of times in the Bible who he is but yet when it comes to Jesus he becomes quiet he nolonger wants to tell people that he is God?? He wants to die for your sins but yet he never said that this was his mission, his followers some how came up with that after he is gone.

11.God had a penis tell me did it get hard??? If it didnt then was God impotent??

12. How can God die for our sins when sins is a learning process in order for us to come to know God better and to sin is part of our test?

13. is God a racist? If not why did He pick a particular colour and race to come to earth as??

Can you answer these please. God says in the Bible that He is not the aurthor of confusion Look at how much confusion can come from saying that Jesus is Gods begotton son and that Jesus is God

Anyway this discussion is not getting us anywhere. It’s obvious we are standing our ground and will not move…

Grace and peace be with you,

No please dont run from the conversation, discuss these matters, if what you say is true then I will believe that Jesus is God, so answer my questions. I believe that God has no need to have a penis,or to die for us because he created us why would the very same God who created us, die for us, so that we can be sin free when he created us to sin. If thats the case then whats the point of having a judgment day?? Those who believe that Jesus is God they go straight to heaven and all those who dont go straight to hell. If I can see this why cant God? Why does he need to have a judgment day when we all are already being prejudged before we die? Are you saying that God is stupid? That he cant figure this out??

There is no point to judjment day there is no need for judgment day. What is the point is the point only to show us that Jesus is God and so that all the Christians can see the rest of humanity thrown in hell and you say God is mercyful?? According to you God has already prejudged us befor we die and all christians as it stands now is going to heaven and the rest is going to hell, again WHATS THE POINT OF JUDGEMENT DAY THEN??
And what about a newborn Muslim baby or Muslim children who die , according to you they are sinners because they are born in sin and they deserve to brun in hell?? How does a baby or children deserve hell?????

Edited by twoswordali, 25 November 2008 - 02:03 PM.

[moth]

Arius along with many others left the council because of what they was doing to the religion of Jesus they was fusing it with greek mythology go look at the movie Zeitgeist look at Jesus is so similar to many of the Greek gods.

Arius left because he disagreed with with the idea that the Son is of the same substance as the Father. btw: Arius DID claim that Jesus/the Son was divine. I would recommend reading something about history of Christianity (& it's heresies) before posting about them...

I have researched the Nicene counsil very well, All you have to do is look at the state of constanoplis at that time and the rift between the pagans and the Christians and you will see that after the council of nicaea that greek mytology was fused with christianity.

Trust me - you did not research it very well.
I would be happy to agree that greek philosophy influenced Christian theology. However I'm not sure if in this case Nicaean Council was any landmark. Still I can't find any relationship between I Council of Nicaea and "fusion of greek mythology"...

Many of the greek gods were crucified as well

how many? any example?

The council of nicaea is proof of what happened to the Bible.

as far as I know this council did not deal with Bible....agenda of I Nicaean Council as stated by wiki:

The Arian question regarding the relationship between God the Father and Jesus; i.e. are the Father and Son one in purpose only or also one in being;
The date of celebration of the Paschal/Easter observation
The Meletian schism;
The validity of baptism by heretics;
The status of the lapsed in the persecution under Licinius

...nothing about Bible so far....

other - minor subjects:
1. prohibition of self-castration; (see Origen)
2. establishment of a minimum term for catechumen;
3. prohibition of the presence in the house of a cleric of a younger woman who might bring him under suspicion;
4. ordination of a bishop in the presence of at least three provincial bishops and confirmation by the metropolitan;
5. provision for two provincial synods to be held annually;
6. exceptional authority acknowledged for the patriarchs of Alexandria and Rome, for their respective regions;
7. recognition of the honorary rights of the see of Jerusalem;
8. provision for agreement with the Novatianists;
9–14. provision for mild procedure against the lapsed during the persecution under Licinius;
15–16. prohibition of the removal of priests;
17. prohibition of usury among the clergy;
18. precedence of bishops and presbyters before deacons in receiving Holy Communion, the Eucharist;
19. declaration of the invalidity of baptism by Paulian heretics;
20. prohibition of kneeling during the liturgy, on Sundays and in the fifty days of Eastertide ("the pentecost"). Standing was the normative posture for prayer at this time, as it still is among the Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholics. (In time, Western Christianity adopted the term Pentecost to refer to the last Sunday of Eastertide, the fiftieth day.)

once again no Bible....so what are you talking about?

1.If Jesus is the physical son of God and Mary was not married to God then that makes Jesus the ###### son of God.
2. Heres another one .. if God had a baby with mary and Jesus is the only BEGOTTON SON of God then God broke his own commandment and had spirtual fornication or some sort of fornication with Mary and got her pregnent...

of course you're aware that it takes a lot of good will to take your points as pour curiosity and not as an intended offence? If I remember Isa in Islam is also said to be born of virgin. And Christians never claimed that God had an sexual intercourse with Mary.

3.If Jesus is God when God was a baby he crapped himself, Gods come to die for your sins to save you yet he couldnt even wipe his own behind?? he couldnt save himself form smellimg like do do.but hes going to save the world?
6.Jesus was breast fed so your telling me that God sucked on breast?
7.God knows all and heres all an he knows everthing yet your saying that Jesus is God but the devil tempted Jesus meaning that he thought about something that the devil suggested to him, so the devil tempted God??
8 While on the cross to die for your sins and he knew of this mission, Jesus says Father why has thou forsaken me?? Yeah this really sounds like somebody who knew that he was going to die for your sins.

Christians believe Jesus was incarnation of Son (2 person of Trinty) - both God and man - fully God and man. And sucking breast - doubting - fearing and being tempted is part of being human.

4.If Jesus is God then God had a penis and at that time there were men at the time Jesus was a baby, so a man can easily say that they had a bigger penis than God.
11.God had a penis tell me did it get hard??? If it didnt then was God impotent??

I guess that this is Islamic way of being respectful towards other faiths?...on a side note: one have to be a male to have such a theological problems....

5. Not only that, God was a Jew so please tell me what man circumcised God what man had the privilege of touching Gods penis???

you really need his name?

13. is God a racist? If not why did He pick a particular colour and race to come to earth as??

maybe He tossed a coin and the outcome was "Jew"?
I skipped more serious questions because it is really hard to take you seriously....

[twoswordali]

Arius left because he disagreed with with the idea that the Son is of the same substance as the Father. btw: Arius DID claim that Jesus/the Son was divine. I would recommend reading something about history of Christianity (& it's heresies) before posting about them...

I loked at your source as well wiki and got this
In about the year 318, he was involved in a dispute with his bishop, Alexander of Alexandria, maintaining against him that the Son of God was not consubstantial or coeternal with God the Father, but that there was once a time, before he was begotten, that he did not exist. Arius, with a following of other priests, was excommunicated, but debate continued throughout the Eastern Roman Empire. Many bishops, particularly those who studied under Lucian of Antioch, agreed with Arius. By the time Constantine I took over the East in 324, debate was fierce, with various councils condemning and approving Arius's views on the Son.
This doesnt show me that he thought that Jesus was divine.

I would be happy to agree that greek philosophy influenced Christian theology. However I'm not sure if in this case Nicaean Council was any landmark. Still I can't find any relationship between I Council of Nicaea and "fusion of greek mythology"...

Look at all the pagan religions that were going on at the time of this council then look at how they and christianity relate to greek mythology

how many? any example?

Example: Attis of greece

of course you're aware that it takes a lot of good will to take your points as pour curiosity and not as an intended offence? If I remember Isa in Islam is also said to be born of virgin. And Christians never claimed that God had an sexual intercourse with Mary.

we dont believe that Jesus is the BEGOTTON SON OF GOD. You lie Christians say that Jesus is the Beggoton son of God, tell me what does beget or begotten mean, use wiki or any dictionary or here you may use what i found in the Bible:Genesis 5:3
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth Adam had sex with eve. Now you say that Jesus is the only begotton son of God what does that mean?? If this is true it means that God fathered a bastad child. and not only that, because Jesus Is God (according to you) then God made himself a ###### why would God do such a confusing thing?. Was Mary married when she gave birth??? What do we call any child that was born without their parents being married???(psssst we cal it a ######) and according to you believe that

Christians believe Jesus was incarnation of Son (2 person of Trinty) - both God and man - fully God and man. And sucking breast - doubting - fearing and being tempted is part of being human.

If you believe that God became a man and He was tempted by the devil so then God becomes under the human being scope because hes part human being. OK, then if he was a human an if he was born to a woman who wasnt married the he has to take on the human name for those who are born to such people who are not married and that name is ######. So God is part divine part ######???

I guess that this is Islamic way of being respectful towards other faiths?...on a side note: one have to be a male to have such a theological problems....

This is no disrespect to the followers of Jesus however to say that God has a penis is a huge disrespect to our own logical intellect. It actually destroys good thinking on God, and thats disrespecful.

you really need his name?

Yes i would like to know the man who touched Gods private parts. Look how silly this sounds, tell me how can you condem two gay men for touching each others private parts, when God allowed for another man to touch His penis(according to you)

maybe He tossed a coin and the outcome was "Jew"?

Laugh it up but you know this is an act of being a racist!! Prophets is a different story, there can be prophets from any race, sent to all humanity because they are a human being. But for God to come to earth and choose a specific race of people thats not a fair God at all, no wonder the whites thought that they was over the slaves.

I skipped more serious questions because it is really hard to take you seriously....

Why have you bowed out of the conversation?? These questions beg to be answered which you havent done and still you and the other person still have neglected THE GOSPEL OF JUDAS as well or did you forget?? and the last part of my questions