196 replies to this topic

[twoswordali]

The Prophet(saws) before his commissioning did not perform the obligatory five salaahs from his birth, he did not fast Ramadan among other things and he was unaware of Imaan as Allah says in the Quran
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He found you unaware and guided you: Surah Dhuha


and

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(And thus We have sent to you a Ruh from Our command. you knew not what is the Book, nor what is Faith. But We have made it a light wherewith We guide whosoever of our servants We will...) (42:52)

So by that logic it is not haram for a man if he is unaware of Allah and does not what Imaan is, does not pray obligatory prayers, fast ramadan and other things where were absent in the Prophet's life from his birth to Prophethood.

ASA
Yes Allah says He found him unaware and guided him, unaware of what?? Scripture!! Unaware of how to corectly worship God, and in the second ayat you gave Its saying that he did not know scripture or true faith
but Allah has guided him ,these are very clear verses nowhere does it state that Allah found Muhammad in sin or doing sins or having done a sin. If a man commits a sin while he doesn't know any better then no he is not held accountable when he then knows better and never does that sin again, Muhammad doesn't even fall into this category.

He commited no sins he lived a perfect life so how the hell can you say that our prophet commited a sin because he didn't know any better at the time?? What ???!!!! Muhammads life was perfect right up until revelation, he never sinned he kept his original nature before revelation and after revelation. I cant believe that im debating these fundamental facts about Muhammad to Muslims who want to put Muhammad in a categorey of sinners who didn't know they were sinning until they found God.

Muhammad was a perfect human being thats why Allah says hes the best example for all of mankind, so if the prophet listened to musIc as a young youth HE WASN'T SINNING!!!!! GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEADS MUHAMMAD WAS PERFECT BEFORE REVELATION AND REMAINED THAT WAY AND ADVANCED MORE AFTER REVELATIO. Nothing Muhammad did in his life time NOTHING HE DID, constituted as a sin, at any point in his life wether it was before revelation or after revelation HE DID NOT EVEN COMMIT A SIN UNAWARE OF IT BEING A SIN HE WAS A PERFECT MAN A PERFECT HUMAN BEING. If anybody says anything different qouting whoever stating that Muhammad sinned or that he sinned unknowingly then that person is a liar and does not love Muhammad

[cefarix]

Prophet Muhammad PBUH was a man just like us, the best of us, yes, but he did make mistakes. Read the tafsir of the first few verses of Surah Abasa, for example. But Allah SWT forgave all of his mistakes.

[twoswordali]

The prophet made mistakes yes did he make any mistakes that was to be against the religion of Islam before revelation. NO he did not, did you know that Muslim scholars doctors 1300 years ago used music to help heal mentaly ill people?? If Muhammad listened to music then he himself would have told us that he sinned when he was younger.

[Abdul Muqeet]

Salam

Please find on the following link one of the most detailed articles on this subject. I am pretty sure that it will remove all doubts

you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_miftaahulkhair.wordpress(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2009/04/25/music-in-Islam/

[ummammaar]

It's pretty clear, Allahu A3lam. May Allah swt help us to see the Haqq for what it is as mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah, help us to follow our deen even in areas where it goes against our nafs, societial norm created by hype and brainwashing, ameen.

As a famous poet once said, Love of the Quran and music cannot gather in one hand.

Try and write down the affects of listening to music and tell me when do you feel better most intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually and make sure you do this when you are not emotional and not listening or thinking about music.

How much khushoo does one have when one listens to it (even if not every day or every other day) vs. when a person does not listen to it at all?

Also, someone said it's everywhere, yes, that's hearing it, and not on purpose. That's not the same as listening to it. However, that doesn't mean that if we hear it in a store or in someone else's car we listen on purpose or start "enjoying" it.

When it comes to doing things to please Allah it has two conditions: be correct according to Quran and Sunnah AND have a sincere niyyah. You can't have one without the other. If someone prays but is not a muslim, what's the point? If someone says I am going to go have a drink in a club, or just sit with someone who does (maadhAllah) and I am going to go give dawah, do you see what the problem with that logic is? Our deen is not based on what we think.

For those that are not even willing to see the view that doesn't go along with what they want to hear, I leave you with this hadith regarding what really a sin is:
The arabic, it's English translation and it's sharh can be found at this link: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_fortyhadith.iiu.edu.my/hadith27.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_fortyhadith.iiu.edu.my/hadith27.htm[/url]

So ask yourself if you listen to music (not recognizing it as a weakness you have) but actually considering it to not be a disobedience to Allah, why don't we ever see all such people still listening to it next to a masjid blasting your stereo system? Or them walking inside the masjid with their walkman/cd player/mp3 player/ipod? Why don't we see people getting up and having a CD player with music on at the musalla? I know there's a few people that actually do this, but that doesn't mean it's justified.


(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetahmadjibril(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/articles/music.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetahmadjibril(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/articles/music.html[/url]The daleel from it from the quran, sunnah, as well as the sayings of the 4 madhahib on this issue.

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamqa(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/en/ref/5000"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamqa(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/en/ref/5000[/url](you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamweb(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/ver2/Fatwa/FatwaCategory.php?lang=E&CatId=973"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamweb(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/ver2/Fatwa/FatwaCa...E&CatId=973[/url]
(a whole category that deals with questions related to this entire topic)

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yettafsir(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/default.asp?sid=31&tid=40596"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yettafsir(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/default.asp?sid=31&tid=40596[/url] Tafsir of Ibn Kathir (rahimahullah) one of the proofs from the Quran

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetthemuslimwoman(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/beware/listeningtomusicandsinging.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetthemuslimwoman(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/beware/liste...candsinging.htm[/url]
(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetthemuslimwoman(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/beware/musicisharam.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetthemuslimwoman(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/beware/musicisharam.htm[/url]
(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_muttaqun(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/music.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_muttaqun(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/music.html[/url]
(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetkalamullah(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/music.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetkalamullah(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/music.html[/url]

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetthemuslimwoman(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/beware/BeatingDuff.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetthemuslimwoman(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/beware/BeatingDuff.htm
[/url]Beating the duff.. for women

Edited by ummammaar, 29 May 2009 - 02:30 AM.

[salama]

Music strictly prohibited in Islam.

Evidence:

Allah Subhaana hu wa Ta’ala said in Surah Luqmaan:
(Translation):
And among the people there is that who purchases diverting statement to mislead (people), without knowledge, from the path of Allah and to take it for a mockery. For such people (the purchasers of diverting statement) there shall be humiliating punishment.

And when our ayaat (verses) are recited to him, he turns away in arrogance as if he heard them not, as if there was deafness in both his ears. Give him the glad tidings of a painful (agonizing) punishment. verses 6 – 7 of Surah Luqmaan

Explanation (commentary):

Cause of revelation of these verses:


According to the Tafseer (commentary) these verses were revealed when Nadhar Bin Haarith bought storybooks and also hired singer slave girls to divert people from listening to the verses of the Holy Quraan recited by the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallaho alaihi wasallam).

The word Lahwal hadeeth is used in verse 6. lahwa means amusement, entertainment, diversion, fun, play. Lahwal hadeeth means any statement that has these qualities. It means any useless talk or statement that attracts people, makes them busy and diverts them from performing and doing essential useful activities.

Abdullah Bin Mas’ood Radiyallaho anho was asked about the meaning of lahwal hadeeth in this Verse. He said three times with emphasis:” By Allah it means singing/song”. Similar explanation was given by many other scholars like Abdullah Bin Abbas Radiyallaho anho and Jabir Bin Abdullah …….

As someone used his money to buy such useless things like storybooks, songs, novels, fun-making statements and hired slave girls to recite the stories and jokes, etc. and to sing songs to attract people and make them busy in listening to them and divert them from the serious statement of the Holy Quraan, Allah revealed these verses to warn him. As compared to the songs, tales and dramas etc. the Holy Quraan teaches Facts and Truth and makes a person serious and truthful in all his dealings. It teaches men their aim in this life, and accountability in the Hereafter. It also informs mankind about the agonizing punishment to the unbelievers and the disobedient servants, and the reward in Gardens of Bliss to the believers and obedient servants. It, thus, gives great impressive character to the followers of the Guidance.

When Muhammad (Sallallaho alaihi wasallam) used to recite the attractive verses of the Holy Quraan, people were attracted and when they accepted Islam and followed muhammad (Sallallaho alaihi wasallam), their character became outstanding, strong, and impressive. They were trustable people of High morale. So the other people were impressed and attracted to Islam.

The unbelievers became restless and due to their anger they gave the following names to the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallaho alaihi wasallam): Saahir (magician), Shaa-ir (poet), kaahin (soothsayer) and majnoon (mad). They called the Prophet (Sallallaho alaihi wasallam) by these names only to repel and divert people from him and from listening to the Holy Quraan. But they did not succeed. So Nadhar Bin Haarith said to the Quraish people:

“The method you are using against Muhammad Sallallaho alaihi wasallam is not working. This man has grown among you from his childhood and until now he has been a man of the best character. He has been the most truthful and the most trustworthy. Now you say that he is kaahin, saahir, Shaa-ir, majnoon. Who will accept these words? Do the people not know about soothsayers, magicians, poets and mad or insane people? Which of these accusations fits the ( Grand) character of Muhammad Sallallaho alaihi wasallam?
Of course none! Therefore you cannot divert people from listening to Muhammad Sallallaho alaihi wasallam. Now let me deal with this matter.”

Then he went to Iraq from Makkah and bought stories of Rustam etc. Then he managed gatherings where people could listen to stories and fun etc. Also he hired singer slave girls to sing and make people busy. If he found a man getting impressed by the Verses of the Holy Quraan, he would appoint a singer slave girl to make the man busy in eating, drinking and listening to the music so that his heart got diverted from the Holy Quraan.
Since then the big criminal groups have been practicing the same method. They spend lots of money for making and providing such diverting programs of music, stories with music and fun, novels, films and dramas etc. to make people busy, and keep them away
from serious, useful aims. So the people remain negligent and unmindful until they are
destroyed.

According to a Hadeeth Sharif, the Prophet sallallaho alaihi wasallam had prohibited the
hiring of singer women and their fees were made unlawful. Teaching them the way of singing was also unlawful.
At that time such business was done only by slave girls/ women and no free women / girls were involved in this profession. Therefore, the Prophet Sallallaho alaihi wasallam used the name of “slave” in these ahaadeeth. Anas radhiyallaho anho narrated a hadeeth of the Prophet Sallallaho alaihi wasallam according to which, on the Day of Judgement, molten (hot ) lead shall be poured in the ears of those who used to sit in the company of a singing slave girl/ woman ( to hear music).
The person who makes / manages such diverting programmes based on music, stories (today’s dramas, films etc), is warned with a humiliating punishment in the Hereafter. This is because he is trying to make mockery of the true and serious statement of the Holy Quraan. The Holy Quraan is an Admonition and Guidance for all people till the Last Day of this world. The buyer and player of music, films etc. is diverting people from the very serious facts of this life and the result in the Hereafter.

Warning in the Hadeeth sharif:

According to a Hadeeth Sharif of the Prophet Sallallaho alaihi wasallam there will be people from his Ummah who will eat, drink, sing and dance at night ( then sleep). In the next morning they will be converted in to apes!!! ( Allah knows best the exact words of the Prophet Sallallaho alaihi wasallam.).

The Muslims must note it that the Prophet Sallallaho alaihi wasallam never did or said or approved any thing against the Quraan or against his Hadeeth. As the Hadeeth says that he Sallallaho alaihi wasallam warned us that anyone who hears /listens to music, hot molten lead will be poured into his/her ears on the Day of Judgement, then how can someone accuse the Prophet Sallallaho alaihi wasallam of hearing music or letting his wives hear music??????

Please don’t attribute false things to Aisha Radiyallaho anha. Don’t forget that a munafiq (hypocrite) had made false accusation on her. Then Allah Subhaanahoo wa Ta’ala confermed her innocence and piety in the Holy Quraan for ever. In the same verses of Surah Al Noor, Allah strictly warned us to avoid any accusations in future!!!!!

May Allah protect us from any Wrath in this world and from Hard Accounting and Punishment in the Hereafter, ameen.

[Orthodox]

So much reading:

. [size=3]Singing differs from having Musical instruments. The former (singing) is allowed ( although it is disliked when it is excessive) while the latter (musical instruments) is forbidden by all scholars.

2. the Prophet (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã) and his companions (ÑÖí Çááå Úäåã) only listened to singing and Daf.

3. Accidently hearing has been shown how to deal with below.




Hearing: It was reported by Abu dawd in his Sunan the Hadeeth of Ibn Umar that he closed his ears upon hearing the musical pipe (mizmaar). Although Abu dawd said it is Munkar but Imam Ahmad denied that and used it as an evidence besides that the hadeeth came from another route that Ibn Qudama mentioned. And even if the hadeeth is weak due suliman bin Musa but his hadeeth does not contradict Saheeh hadeeths neither brings odd texts in it. Furthermore, weak hadeeth is better than mere opinions as Imam Ahmad said.

In addition, I think that Al-Bayhaqi is the one who used this Hadeeth to show how to handle "hearing unintentionaly" musical instruments. So, that proves that when we are not intentionaly wishing to listen and happened that we heard music that we should abstain from hearing it and not excuse ourselves with our intention.[using large font size is not allowed]

Such as the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “There will be among my ummah people who permit adultery, silk, alcohol and musical instruments…” This was narrated by al-Bukhaari in a mu’allaq report, no. 5590. al-Tabaraani and al-Bayhaqi narrated it in a mawsool report. See al-Silsilah al-Saheehah by al-Albaani, 91.

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: This is a saheeh hadeeth which was narrated by al-Bukhaari in his Saheeh and quoted it as mu’allaq majzoom.

Source: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetIslam-qa(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?ref=20128&ln=eng"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetIslam-qa(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?ref=20128&ln=eng[/url]

It was reported in a saheeh hadeeth from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “In my ummah there will be people who allow fornication/adultery (zina), silk, wine and musical instruments [ma’aazif]. Some people will stay at the side of a mountain, and they will have flocks of sheep. When a poor person comes in the evening to ask them for something he needs, they will say. ‘Come back to us tomorrow.’ Then during the night Allaah will destroy them by causing the mountain to fall upon them, while He changes others into apes and swine. They will remain in such a state until the Day of Resurrection.’”

(Reported by al-Bukhaari in al-Saheeh mu’allaqan, 51/10. Reported mawsoolan by al-Bayhaqi in al-Sunan al-Kubra, 3/272; al-Tabaraani in al-Mu’jam al-Kabeer, 3/319; and Ibn Hibbaan in al-Saheeh (8/265-266). Classed as saheeh by Ibn al-Salaah in ‘Uloom al-Hadeeth (32), Ibn al-Qayyim in Ighaathat al-Lahfaan (255) and Tahdheeb al-Sunan (5/270-272), al-Haafiz in al-Fath (10/51) and al-Albaani in al-Saheehah (1/140)).

Source: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetIslam-qa(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?ref=5011&ln=eng"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetIslam-qa(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?ref=5011&ln=eng[/url]

Edited by Orthodox, 25 July 2010 - 02:46 PM.

[warner]

And among the people there is that who purchases diverting statement to mislead (people), without knowledge, from the path of Allah and to take it for a mockery. For such people (the purchasers of diverting statement) there shall be humiliating punishment.(Quran)

Salam,

Only people with no common sense will say this is related to music. There are so many Islamic songs, and if we listen to them it increases our love of Islam, love of prophet and love of Allah. They are in no way make MOCKERY of the path of Allah.

wassalam

[silentthunder]

I ask this now then, I was on a Muslim website the other day because I do not speak Arabic but am trying to learn how to pronounce words correctly I looked up how to say the first Sura of the Qu'ran and came across an audio file that had it, the person was singing the first sura is that allowed? I thought it was beautiful and certainly was for the pleasure of Allah.

[Zayed]

Does Koran says anything about music or musical instruments????
If koran says they should be not used then it should not be.
If koran says nothing about it then why there is so much fuss about it.

[IAmZamzam]

I find it interesting how the one point no one ever seems to bring up in this interminable, epidemic debate is that the Koran is, like all psalmically-styled poetry, an *extremely* musical piece of writing.

[al faqeer]

We use Musical Tunes to recite both the Quran and make the Athaan , Its the Instruments that makes the Music that are outlawed in Islam except the Duf.

Shukran

[AHMAD_73]

You mean it is Haram, then, to have idle tales which mislead people from the Path of God.
Is it Halal to then, have idle tales which do not mislead people from the Path of God?

alsalamo alykom brothers,

I didn't mean to mix issues up, here is what I meant in other words,

The problem could be the definition of music/singing, it's a wide spectrum issue,

In Albukhary, Moslem and others, The prophet of Allah urged the Moslems to declare marriage and use the "doff" in it,
in Mousnd Ahmad and others, he (pbuh), urged the women to give a singing greeting (of course women to women) to the bride when reaching her new house
ÃÊíäÇßã ÃÊíäÇßã ÝÍíÇäÇ æÍíÇßã
Which means we came to you, so give a greeting and we will replay the same.

So we may reach the point,
Marriage, educational, in war,…..nasheed, singing, with a good meaningful words, with the doff and similar instruments ……. Is mostly ok

Sharp instruments with stings, metal parts….and/or bad or non-meaningful words ……will not be ok

Good meaning nasheed with some simple soft music (ex. Samy yousof)….is controversial.

Generally,
Laziness, lack of sport practicing, eating too much, spending money on extra-luxury, big belly, caring to much about music in stead of Quran……are some side effects diseases related to the lack of the main goal in life which is related to weakness in Aakedah, right belief, which accompany the weakness of the Islamic Umah.

infact all the above side effects, no one can set a sharp line for it, wht is the separate line between rest and laziness, or the Extra-luxury and lower luxury, eating too much or moderate, size of the billy and the right number of pushing ups person have to have.....!!!! as you are so close to Allah you will be doing better in such issues.

And so, have to direct our main efforts to main disease, repairing the Akeedah , so simple, the side effects will disappear.

Allah knows best,

I need a replay from the brother dot about that

[EasternQibla]

In Bukhari we read

Volume 2, Book 15, Number 70:

Narrated Aisha:

Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) came to my house while two girls were singing beside me the songs of Buath (a story about the war between the two tribes of the Ansar, the Khazraj and the Aus, before Islam). The Prophet (p.b.u.h) lay down and turned his face to the other side. Then Abu Bakr came and spoke to me harshly saying, "Musical instruments of Satan near the Prophet (p.b.u.h) ?" Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) turned his face towards him and said, "Leave them." When Abu Bakr became inattentive, I signalled to those girls to go out and they left. It was the day of 'Id, and the Black people were playing with shields and spears; so either I requested the Prophet (p.b.u.h) or he asked me whether I would like to see the display. I replied in the affirmative. Then the Prophet (p.b.u.h) made me stand behind him and my cheek was touching his cheek and he was saying, "Carry on! O Bani Arfida," till I got tired. The Prophet (p.b.u.h) asked me, "Are you satisfied (Is that sufficient for you)?" I replied in the affirmative and he told me to leave.

"Musical instruments of Satan near the Prophet (p.b.u.h) ?" Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) turned his face towards him and said, "Leave them":
So surely anyone having an opinion that music and instruments are evil in themselves goes against our Prophet (God rest his soul). (This is opposed to the type of music, I mean Edith Piaf is terrible in my opinion. When travelling as a family in France my mother insisted on listening to her in the car. My father and I dubbed it the Bastille torture chambers! ... perhaps it was not the best of her recordings ... !!)

Richard

[EasternQibla]

I've been going through my notes on Bukhari, and found this:

Volume 6, Book 61, Number 568:

Narrated Abu Musa:

That the Prophet said to him' "O Abu Musa! You have been given one of the musical wind-instruments of the family of David .'

Why then do some Muslims say music is forbidden? (Is that what 'haram' means?)
True, certain types of music might not be helpful. I'm sure I've read that in the 20s the Anglican church condemned Jazz, saying it was leading the youth on a path to hell - 70 years later it adopted pop music officially in its services! (There was a political satirical program called Spitting Image, and the then Archbishop of Canterbury George Cary was always seen rapidly bashing a tambourine on his head.)

Richard

[the sad clown]

Why then do some Muslims say music is forbidden? (Is that what 'haram' means?)

Here is the paper mentioned early on in the thread. I would have just linked to the post, but the links in the previous posts no longer work:

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetkalamullah(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Books/Music%20and%20Singing.pdf"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetkalamullah(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Books/Music%20and%20Singing.pdf[/url]

I suppose you could find quite a bit of information on arguments against music based on Islam.

[EasternQibla]

Here is the paper mentioned early on in the thread. I would have just linked to the post, but the links in the previous posts no longer work:

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetkalamullah(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Books/Music%20and%20Singing.pdf"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetkalamullah(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Books/Music%20and%20Singing.pdf[/url]

I suppose you could find quite a bit of information on arguments against music based on Islam.

Thank you so much for this. I have glanced through it.

"Volume 6, Book 61, Number 568: Narrated Abu Musa: That the Prophet said to him 'O Abu Musa! You have been given one of the musical wind-instruments of the family of David .' ": this was quoted above, but strangely it is not quoted in the work (search for Dawood). consider the following:

p4
Additionally, nowhere in the Quraan or in the authentic traditions(*6) is there any support for this accompanying the psalms with musical instruments .

(*6)[page 15]Traditions are authentic textual material containing clear and explicit sayings of the Prophet. His sayings in this matter only refer to the beautiful, melodious quality of Dawood's voice in reciting from the Book of Psalms. It is true that a number of narrations (aathaar mowqoofah) reported on the authority of some of the taabi'een (the generation after the companions) refer to the wonderful qualities of Dawood's voice in an exxagerated manner, and in some of these a mention of musical instruments is found. However, such narrations do not stand as valid proof in this issue because they consist of views and/or reports of the type known as israaaeeliyaat (reports gleaned from hearsay or the traditions of the People of Book). The criterion in such matters is to be based upon a reference to Allah's Book and the authentic sunnah. For a sample of such narrations, see Ibn Katheer's volumnious historic compendium, AlBidaayah wan Nihaayah, vol.2, pp. 10-11.

p5 It is essential at this point to mention that if it were established - for the sake of argument - that Dawood (peace be upon him) did in fact have musical accompaniment to his psalms; such a thing would not be proof that music, singing to musical accompaniment, etc. are followed in Islam. This is substantiated by the agreed upon principle from the science of usoolul fiqh(*20) which states that the revealed law (shar'un) of those who came before us(*21) is considered applicable insofar as such law is not explicitly abrogated by the texts of the final divinely-revealed law of Islam as embodied in the Quraan and the authentic sunnah.(*22)

It is stated that no such music is stated in the authentic hadith regarding the Psalms. The only places mentioned apparently come from reports of the Jews and Christians and so "do not stand as valid proof in this issue". Yet "if it were established - for the sake of argument" then music still would not be allowed because "the revealed law (shar'un) of those who came before us(*21) is considered applicable insofar as such law is not explicitly abrogated by the texts of the final divinely-revealed law of Islam as embodied in the Quraan and the authentic sunnah"

True, the hadith I quoted mentions "the family of David" instead of the Psalms explicitly, but this can only widen the application of such "musical wind-instruments". This hadith is from Sahih Bukhari, and so I am led to believe is authentic, it is not a saying of the Jews or Christians, but "the Prophet said to him".

So to what extent this is abrogated by the other hadiths - or that there is a contradiction amongst them - I do not know. Yet is it clear that to refer to musical instruments as being "of Satan" (as Abu Bakr said in the hadith quoted in my post #174 above) is absolutely a delusion. Our Prophet (God rest his soul) would not have referred to David's family in such a way if he too believed that musical instruments were of Satan. I cannot shake my opinion that the spirituality of Abu Bakr - that musical instruments are of Satan - is against that of the Prophet (God rest his soul).

Of course, I am open to change my opinion if suitable evidence is presented. But then again, why does this work deliberately try to downgrade David's family enjoyment of music by ignoring the authentic hadith of the Prophet (God rest his soul)? I can't help but feel that some scholars are trying to manipulate Muhammad (God rest his soul) to put forward their own spirituality. Harsh words, but why ignore this hadith??? Enlightenment would be welcome!

Peace,

Richard

[the sad clown]

Sorry, this discussion is well beyond my abilities. I pretty much exhausted my utility in it the moment I posted that link.

[EasternQibla]

Thank for your help anyway.
Richard

[coder]

Definitely a controversial topic in terms of making the simple things quite complicated problems.

So, what is so "evil" about music then?

Music is a patternized sound that can bring about pleasure in hearing it (or from the consequences of hearing it).

Hmm. When you hear something which eventually annoys you, even if it is something as primitive as a continously loud noise, then you want to avoid it. This can be associated to something "evil", though I wouldn't jump to such a scary word such as that.

One music might be liked by person A and might be disliked by person B (and not just because of personal taste - it might be because it reminds them of something personal, like a traumatic incident), so in this way, Person B can attribute the music to be "evil".

So what is the "issue" of music in Islam?