85 replies to this topic

[Russ of Vespuccia]

Perhaps, seacow, we should say that US actions during the Cold War were understandable if not entirely condonable.

[c-kow]

Perhaps, seacow, we should say that US actions during the Cold War were understandable if not entirely condonable.

precisely
or perhaps even condonable if we understand the alternative options presented

[wiseguy]

Why do you want to condone the war crimes committed by the US regime during the Cold War? The US regime had intervened in the affairs of many countries all over the world and the US interventions caused countless destructions, deaths and sufferings in Korea, Vitenam, Camodia, Laos, Indonesia, Afghanistan, Libya, Nicaragua, other South American countries etc. The US regime has no right to intervene in the affairs of other sovereign countries! If you think foreigners have no right to intervene in the affairs of USA then the US regime has no right to intervene in other countries! The US regime is guilty of war crimes for massacrings millions of innocent and defenseless civilians in foreign countries! The US regime has no rights to terrorize nor massacre innocent and defenseless civilians in foreign countries. Why do you support the US regime that has terrorized numerous countries all over the world, massacred millions of innocent and defenseless civilians and attacked and destroyed civilian targets? Why do you condone the US regime that uses WMDs to destroy foreign countries?

I don't understand why some people support the tyrannical US regime and ignore the war crimes committed by the brutal regime.

[wiseguy]

You understand how during the Cold War, the majority of the world was caught between the fighting of a capitalist, relatively benign power, and a communist tyrannical authority.

Why did/do the capitalists ignore the starvation and poverty in Africa, India and other third word countries etc if the capitalists are really benign?

Why do you deny history? History tells us how the tyrannical US regime and its allies intervene in the affairs of other countries. History tells us how CIA agents assassinate the leaders of foreign governments and overthrow the elected foreign governments because the governments do not support the US regime. History tells us how the tyrannical US regime force foreigners to fight and kill their fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, relatives and friends during the Korean War, Vitenam War etc.

Communists would make constant gains as governments friendly to America were overthrown in favor of communist regimes with ties to Russia.

Why don't you tell us how CIA etc overthrow governments friendly to Russia and neutral governments? Why don't you tell us how the US regime assassinate its own puppets so that the US regime can control and manipulate other countries?

Communism was growing, and with their obvious intentions of 'curing' the world of capitalism we knew that it was only a matter of time before they would attempt to start a war they could win. Enter the Truman doctrine, and the Marshall plan, which set precedence for the support of political structures whose only merit was friendliness to the West. Because we needed allies in a world that was being overrun by our enemies, we made some friends we otherwise wouldn't have.

This is another capitalist and Western propaganda aka the domino theory that was a mid-20th century foreign policy theory, promoted by the government of the United States, that speculated that if one land in a region came under the influence of communism, then the surrounding countries would follow in a domino effect. The domino effect suggests that some change, small in itself, will cause a similar change nearby, which then will cause another similar change, and so on in linear sequence, by analogy to a falling row of dominoes standing on end. The domino theory was used by successive United States administrations during the Cold War to justify American intervention around the world.

Referring to communism in Indochina, Eisenhower vocalized the theory during an April 7, 1954 news conference:

“ Finally, you have broader considerations that might follow what you would call the "falling domino" principle. You have a row of dominoes set up, you knock over the first one, and what will happen to the last one is the certainty that it will go over very quickly. So you could have a beginning of a disintegration that would have the most profound influences. Source: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Domino_Theory"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Domino_Theory[/url]

The fact is the failure of communism to take hold in Thailand, Indonesia, and other large Southeast Asian countries after the end of the Vietnam War proves that capitalist and Western propaganda aka the domino theory is false. After the Vietnamese had defeated the tyrannical US regime, it did not attack nor invade Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, and other large Southeast Asian countries. Vietnam had attacked and occupied Cambodia for few years to eliminate the tyrannical Khmer Rouge that had massacred millions of innocent Cambodian people and attacked Vietnam and Vietnamese people. And we know that it was the tyrannical US regime that helped the tyrannical Khmer Rouge to overthrow the Cambodian government by bombing Cambodia, invading parts of Cambodia and killing innocent Camdian people that caused Cambodian people to hate the Cambodian government that served the interest of the tyrannical US regime.

Have you ever heard the phrase "the lesser of two evils?" That is what the contras were, or the Mujahadeen, whom we also supported.

The two evils were the Russia regime and the US regime that have caused countless deaths, sufferings and destructions in foreign countries. And we know that the US regime intervened in the affairs of Afghanistan by sending Muslim fighters who were supported and financed by the US regime to Afghanistan to overthrow the Afghan government that had a good relationship with Russia hoping to lure Russians into Afghanistan and destroy the Russian forces in Afghanistan to weaken the Soviet Union. And the Russians took the bait and defeated in Afghanistan and finally the Soviet Union was abolished.

In a world where the United States exists unchallenged I would never condone such policies, however in the Cold War, America came very close to being defeated by a powerful enemy, and I think you can understand why America attempted to gain all the help possible, though you can see today the negative impact of some of the moral choices that were made.

When did America come very close to being defeated by a powerful enemy? Some US generals wanted to wage war against Russians after the Second World War! The allegation was used as a propaganda scare tactic to try to justify unwarranted intervention policies of the US regime and its allies.

[wiseguy]

On a second related topic, you have to understand how a civil war helped the American cause in the Nicaraguan situation. I do not dispute that precedent has determined that Americans are willing to split our enemies to help our friends, however this policy worked in Nicaragua because the Communist government was in power, and by keeping them occupied and harassed, we were preventing the empowering of a communist regime and the spread of communism to other Latin American countries (domino effect).

The domino effect was used as a propaganda scare tactic to try to justify unwarranted intervention policies of the US regime and its allies. Nicaragua did not and does not become a communist country. It respects democracy! Nicaragua officially the Republic of Nicaragua is a representative democratic republic.

However even assuming America is fully willing to do so, how does it serve the American cause in the Iraq war to start a civil conflict?

The illegal US invasion and occupation of Iraq and its 'divide & rule' policy have caused civil conflicts in Iraq.

The American people were promised a cheap war that was to last months, maybe a full year. We were to go in, take Saddam prisoner, change the government to allow for a pro-Western government to be elected (because we were under the impression that the people of Iraq supported the American cause).

If you believe that the US regime has its rights to go in, take Saddam prisoner, change the government to allow for a pro-Western government to be elected, then Russia, China etc have their right to invade and occupy USA and take Bush prisoner and change the government to allow for a pro-Russia or pro-China government to be elected.

Most of Iraqi people hate the US regime and the US forces for attacking, invading, occupying, and plundering terrorizing Iraq and terrorizing and massacring innocent Iraqi people. If the US regime leave Iraq, the US puppet regime in Iraq will fall within few weeks!

What we got was an entrenched war lasting years that has killed thousands of our soldiers and thrown our country trillions of dollars into debt. What's more, the populace we thought we would be helping out has rejected us, either due to the fact that we behaved terribly in the opening weeks of the war, or the fact that we cannot maintain an infrastructure strong enough to uphold their economy and daily life. My suspicion is that it is both.

The US regime and its allies had imposed economy embargoes and food sanctions on Iraq that caused the deaths of millions of Iraqi babies, children etc. The US regime also attacks and destroys civilian targets in Iraq and kills innocent civilians in the process. The US forces rape, torture, terrorize or/and massacre innocent Iraqi people. Do you Americans expect Iraqi people to greet, hug and kiss you Americans and give you a bouquet of flowers after you have terrorized and murdered their fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, relatives, neigbours, friends etc? The tyrannical US regime and its brutal US forces are worse than the Nazi and Fascists!

Success for us would be for Iraq to be peaceful, to be a third country in the Middle East to look favorably on the United States, and even though our government (surprisingly) does not support it, we would be glad to have the OPEC cartel broken so that we can deal directly with an oil supplier for cheaper fuel, or at least at this stage, to help finance the reconstruction movement.

Do you call it a success when Iraq become a quagmire for the US regime and its soldiers? More Americans are returning to USA in body bags!

The worst thing that can possibly happen would be more violence, or a demonstration that Iraq is not going to be peaceful.

The US regime is responsible for the violence in Iraq by invading and occupying Iraq illegally.

A civil war is the worst thing for American goals, considering that our military is entrenched in an occupying country. We want peace, we want prosperity, and we want an ally who is democratic, Islamic, and pro-West. Do you see my point? Why would we start fights if it is against our goals, even if you do not think our goals are admirable.

The US regime need a civil war as a good reason to occupy Iraq for a long time while weakening Sunni and Shia through the US-sponsored civil wars in Iraq.

If the Bush administration wanted to, he could order a nuclear strike that would turn the country into glass.

And the nuclear fallouts would soon reach USA and Europe and kill Americans, Europeans and animals and pollute the rivers, farmes, ranches etc. Do you think that China and Russia would allow the US regime to use the nuclear weapons against other countries?

There is no need to divide what you can already conquer, the reason that we do not take Iraq in this manner is because it is morally wrong, and whether or not you believe it, we are doing what we can to win the hearts and minds of the local populace enough that we can help create a country that is peaceful and democratic. Splitting Islam does not serve this cause.

Do you think that the US regime would allow Shia and Sunni to unite and grow strong enough to defeat the US forces that are terrorizing Iraqi people in Iraq and force the Zionist capitalists, who are busy stealing Iraqi oil, to leave Iraq for good? Do you that the Zionist capitalists would be glad to leave the Iraqi oil wells?

[c-kow]

Why do you want to condone the war crimes committed by the US regime during the Cold War? The US regime had intervened in the affairs of many countries all over the world and the US interventions caused countless destructions, deaths and sufferings in Korea, Vitenam, Camodia, Laos, Indonesia, Afghanistan, Libya, Nicaragua, other South American countries etc. The US regime has no right to intervene in the affairs of other sovereign countries! If you think foreigners have no right to intervene in the affairs of USA then the US regime has no right to intervene in other countries! The US regime is guilty of war crimes for massacrings millions of innocent and defenseless civilians in foreign countries! The US regime has no rights to terrorize nor massacre innocent and defenseless civilians in foreign countries. Why do you support the US regime that has terrorized numerous countries all over the world, massacred millions of innocent and defenseless civilians and attacked and destroyed civilian targets? Why do you condone the US regime that uses WMDs to destroy foreign countries?

I don't understand why some people support the tyrannical US regime and ignore the war crimes committed by the brutal regime.

It wasn't a choice between the intervention of American forces with Western intentions, and no intervention at all. It was a question of whether or not Americans would intervene or Soviets, and in many cases both did. Whatever side espoused the ideology of the superpower in question gained a great deal of political and logistical support.

I would prefer an isolationist strategy as well, as would the majority of Americans I believe. However, especially in a zero sum cold war scenario we cannot abstain on moral grounds only to be overrun by the greater evil. Do you see what I mean?

Why do you deny history? History tells us how the tyrannical US regime and its allies intervene in the affairs of other countries. History tells us how CIA agents assassinate the leaders of foreign governments and overthrow the elected foreign governments because the governments do not support the US regime. History tells us how the tyrannical US regime force foreigners to fight and kill their fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, relatives and friends during the Korean War, Vitenam War etc.

I never denied this. You are missing my point, which is to show the bigger picture which gives the relatively atrocious behavior of the CIA context and if you are a cynic, validity. Which you would prefer to choose if you were forced, the Russian Soviet government, or an American supported government? In that time in history, there was no third option.

This is another capitalist and Western propaganda aka the domino theory that was a mid-20th century foreign policy theory, promoted by the government of the United States, that speculated that if one land in a region came under the influence of communism, then the surrounding countries would follow in a domino effect. The domino effect suggests that some change, small in itself, will cause a similar change nearby, which then will cause another similar change, and so on in linear sequence, by analogy to a falling row of dominoes standing on end. The domino theory was used by successive United States administrations during the Cold War to justify American intervention around the world.

Referring to communism in Indochina, Eisenhower vocalized the theory during an April 7, 1954 news conference:

“ Finally, you have broader considerations that might follow what you would call the "falling domino" principle. You have a row of dominoes set up, you knock over the first one, and what will happen to the last one is the certainty that it will go over very quickly. So you could have a beginning of a disintegration that would have the most profound influences.

The bolded portion is where you have quoted wikipedia word for word. source: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Domino_Theory"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Domino_Theory[/url]
You should cite your sources, because to avoid doing so is not only plagiarism, but a violation of rule 19.

I am not sure now which things you said are your words, and which are words of other articles whose sources you do not cite. Until I can discern the difference I am going to suspend our discussion.

[wiseguy]

It wasn't a choice between the intervention of American forces with Western intentions, and no intervention at all. It was a question of whether or not Americans would intervene or Soviets, and in many cases both did. Whatever side espoused the ideology of the superpower in question gained a great deal of political and logistical support.

The governments of South Vietnam, Iran, Cambodia etc, that had espoused the ideology of the US regime, suppressed and terrorized their citizens that caused their citizens to overthrow the governments because they hated the American imperialism and the US puppets and proxies who were serving the US interests in their countries. We find many of the countries, that had espoused the ideology of the US regime, destroyed by wars, rebellions etc.

I would prefer an isolationist strategy as well, as would the majority of Americans I believe. However, especially in a zero sum cold war scenario we cannot abstain on moral grounds only to be overrun by the greater evil. Do you see what I mean?

USA was not and is not overrun by other foreign powers. On the contrary, the US regime had overrun parts of Mexico and seized Texas by force.

I never denied this. You are missing my point, which is to show the bigger picture which gives the relatively atrocious behavior of the CIA context and if you are a cynic, validity. Which you would prefer to choose if you were forced, the Russian Soviet government, or an American supported government? In that time in history, there was no third option.

It is good to be a neutral country so that the country will not be involved in the conflicts between/among the superpowers. The Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) is an international organization of states considering themselves not formally aligned with or against any major power bloc. However, we see that the US regime is supporting the israeli regime of terror that is terrorizing Arab countries and Palestine so the Arab countries have no choice but to ask Russians to help them to fight the israeli regime of terror so that israel would not overrun Arab countries.

I am not sure now which things you said are your words, and which are words of other articles whose sources you do not cite. Until I can discern the difference I am going to suspend our discussion.

Excuses are the tools with which persons with no purpose in view build for themselves great monuments of nothing. ~Steven Grayhm

Any excuse will serve a tyrant. ~Aesop

If you don't want to do something, one excuse is as good as another. ~Yiddish Proverb

[c-kow]

thank you for editing in your source for your words. Our discussion may continue.

[c-kow]

Why did/do the capitalists ignore the starvation and poverty in Africa, India and other third word countries etc if the capitalists are really benign?

We don't.

To the WPF alone we have donated over 670 million dollars last year, making the United States its biggest supporter.
(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetwfp(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/english/?ModuleID=137&Key=2505"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetwfp(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/english/?ModuleID=137&Key=2505[/url]

Charity in American has risen to 7% of GDP, making us world leaders in charitable giving
(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetcharitynavigator(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=656"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetcharitynavigator(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.cfm?...ew&cpid=656[/url]

The fact is the failure of communism to take hold in Thailand...

Even assuming your point (that it didn't happen) that does not disprove that the policy was motivated by an errant philosophy that was intrinsically good, or that the cause of the South Vietnamese was honorable enough to defend them.

The two evils were the Russia regime and the US regime that have caused countless deaths, sufferings and destructions in foreign countries.

Agreed, now which one is the lesser?

When did America come very close to being defeated by a powerful enemy? Some US generals wanted to wage war against Russians after the Second World War! The allegation was used as a propaganda scare tactic to try to justify unwarranted intervention policies of the US regime and its allies.

If the generals had been obeyed we could have invaded Russia before they reached nuclear equality. I used to be glad that the cold war ended peacefully, but then I spoke with a Russian who was angry that the Americans didn't free him from the despotic influence of Moscow sooner. Now I am not so sure.

The illegal US invasion and occupation of Iraq and its 'divide & rule' policy have caused civil conflicts in Iraq.
If you believe that the US regime has its rights to go in, take Saddam prisoner, change the government to allow for a pro-Western government to be elected, then Russia, China etc have their right to invade and occupy USA and take Bush prisoner and change the government to allow for a pro-Russia or pro-China government to be elected.

If we were ruled by a dictator who was exterminating his own populace, I would hope that they would invade our country.

Most of Iraqi people hate the US regime and the US forces for attacking ...

We got quite the parade when we first came in and knocked down Saddam's statue.

Do you call it a success when Iraq become a quagmire for the US regime and its soldiers? More Americans are returning to USA in body bags!

No, but that is my point. More violence is counterproductive in terms of an American victory, so why would we attempt to incite a civil war?

The US regime is responsible for the violence in Iraq by invading and occupying Iraq illegally.

All violence? You do not think that a great deal of it is caused by preconceived animus let loose by the American destruction of the current maintainer of rule of law? (saddam)
Are you from Iraq? Can you speak for its populace?
Genuine question because if either are true then you just became infinitely more interesting to me.

The US regime need a civil war as a good reason to occupy Iraq for a long time while weakening Sunni and Shia through the US-sponsored civil wars in Iraq.

We want to leave Iraq, believe me. The only question in American politics is whether we want to leave before the country is stable. What advantage do you think occupying the country does for us in a time of war?

Edited by seacow, 13 February 2008 - 02:07 AM.

[c-kow]

And the nuclear fallouts would soon reach USA and Europe and kill Americans, Europeans and animals and pollute the rivers, farmes, ranches etc. Do you think that China and Russia would allow the US regime to use the nuclear weapons against other countries?

If this were such a problem, then we would not test nuclear weapons on our own soil. Fallout is not the primary reason as to why we do not nuke other countries.

Do you think that the US regime would allow Shia and Sunni to unite and grow strong enough to defeat the US forces that are terrorizing Iraqi people in Iraq and force the Zionist capitalists, who are busy stealing Iraqi oil, to leave Iraq for good? Do you that the Zionist capitalists would be glad to leave the Iraqi oil wells?

We are not facing a united front hostile to our occupation. Nor, are we currently making a profit off of that country. Thus we have no desire to stay from a financial standpoint, and no reason to incite war from a political one.

The governments of South Vietnam, Iran, Cambodia etc, that had espoused the ideology of the US regime, suppressed and terrorized their citizens that caused their citizens to overthrow the governments because they hated the American imperialism and the US puppets and proxies who were serving the US interests in their countries. We find many of the countries, that had espoused the ideology of the US regime, destroyed by wars, rebellions etc.

There was little to no American Imperialism present in Vietnam at the time, seeing as how it was a French colony.

USA was not and is not overrun by other foreign powers. On the contrary, the US regime had overrun parts of Mexico and seized Texas by force.

You are missing my point, which is we were threatened by foreign powers. In regards to your second statement, you are digging a little too far into the past to find material evident of American aggression. If you look carefully you will notice that Texas joined the United States, and the resulting war with Mexico ended in concessions of land. But this is so far in the past that it has very little relevance to foreign policy today.

It is good to be a neutral country so that the country will not be involved in the conflicts between/among the superpowers. The Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) is an international organization of states considering themselves not formally aligned with or against any major power bloc. However, we see that the US regime is supporting the israeli regime of terror that is terrorizing Arab countries and Palestine so the Arab countries have no choice but to ask Russians to help them to fight the israeli regime of terror so that israel would not overrun Arab countries.

This is good, we're digging deeper. In no way does the United States support an israeli expansionist policy.

Excuses are the tools with which persons with no purpose in view build for themselves great monuments of nothing. ~Steven Grayhm

Any excuse will serve a tyrant. ~Aesop

If you don't want to do something, one excuse is as good as another. ~Yiddish Proverb

How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. ~Abraham Lincoln

my point is this, I am obviously no tyrant, it does no service to call me one.

[wiseguy]

I am very busy now so I will refute your allegations later.

[c-kow]

if you want to address only certain points that is fine as well. We're reaching 'critical mass' in regards to quote count.

[wiseguy]

We don't.

To the WPF alone we have donated over 670 million dollars last year, making the United States its biggest supporter.Charity in American has risen to 7% of GDP, making us world leaders in charitable giving

The Americans donated over 670 million dollars last year (in a year!). It is an irony that the US regime is spending $720 million a day or $500,000 a minute to violate the sovereignty of Iraq, destroy civilian targets in Iraq and terrorize innocent and defenseless Iraqi people. Between 1965 and 1973, the United States spent $120 billion on the Vietnam war. It seems to me that the US regime is willing to spend so much money on the destruction of sovereign countries, destruction of civilian targets and deaths of innocent civilians in foreign countries while ignoring millions of homeless Americans and 1 In 4 Homeless Americans Are Veterans. It seems to me that the US regime doesn't care about the welfare of Americans. All the US regime cares about is the well-being of israel and Zionists.

U.S. Financial Aid To israel: Figures, Facts, and Impact
Summary

Benefits to israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200

Interest to israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per israeli
$14,630

Since 1992, the U.S. has offered israel an additional $2 billion annually in loan guarantees. Congressional researchers have disclosed that between 1974 and 1989, $16.4 billion in U.S. military loans were converted to grants and that this was the understanding from the beginning. Indeed, all past U.S. loans to israel have eventually been forgiven by Congress, which has undoubtedly helped israel's often-touted claim that they have never defaulted on a U.S. government loan. U.S. policy since 1984 has been that economic assistance to israel must equal or exceed israel's annual debt repayment to the United States. Unlike other countries, which receive aid in quarterly installments, aid to israel since 1982 has been given in a lump sum at the beginning of the fiscal year, leaving the U.S. government to borrow from future revenues. israel even lends some of this money back through U.S. treasury bills and collects the additional interest.

In addition, there is the more than $1.5 billion in private U.S. funds that go to israel annually in the form of $1 billion in private tax-deductible donations and $500 million in israeli bonds. The ability of Americans to make what amounts to tax-deductible contributions to a foreign government, made possible through a number of Jewish charities, does not exist with any other country. Nor do these figures include short- and long-term commercial loans from U.S. banks, which have been as high as $1 billion annually in recent years.

Total U.S. aid to israel is approximately one-third of the American foreign-aid budget, even though israel comprises just .001 percent of the world's population and already has one of the world's higher per capita incomes. Indeed, israel's GNP is higher than the combined GNP of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza. With a per capita income of about $14,000, israel ranks as the sixteenth wealthiest country in the world; israelis enjoy a higher per capita income than oil-rich Saudi Arabia and are only slightly less well-off than most Western European countries.

AID does not term economic aid to israel as development assistance, but instead uses the term "economic support funding." Given israel's relative prosperity, U.S. aid to israel is becoming increasingly controversial. In 1994, Yossi Beilen, deputy foreign minister of israel and a Knesset member, told the Women's International Zionist organization, "If our economic situation is better than in many of your countries, how can we go on asking for your charity?"

Source: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetwrmea(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/us_aid_to_israel/index.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetwrmea(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/us_aid_to_israel/index.htm[/url]

And the US money is being used by the israeli regime of terror to terrorize Palestine, destroy civilian targets in Palestine and massacre innocent Palestinian people and attack and invade Arab countries. In other word the US regime is committing sabotage against the Middle East by supporting and financing the israeli regime of terror.

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetcharitynavigator(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=656"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetcharitynavigator(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.cfm?...ew&cpid=656[/url]

Even assuming your point (that it didn't happen) that does not disprove that the policy was motivated by an errant philosophy that was intrinsically good, or that the cause of the South Vietnamese was honorable enough to defend them.

The American invasion of foreign countries has caused so many sufferings, deaths and destructions. For example, the US intervention in the affair of Vietnam caused the Vietnam War and the unnecessary deaths among the innocent civilians:

Vietnamese civilian dead: 2,000,000–5,100,000*
Cambodian civilian dead: ~700,000*
Laotian civilian dead: ~50,000*
Source: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Vietnam_War"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Vietnam_War[/url]

Agreed, now which one is the lesser?

The US regime, the israeli regime of terror and the Russian regime and their allies are the worst evil.

Note: I am busy now so I will answer the rest of your allegations soon.

[c-kow]

The US regime, the israeli regime of terror and the Russian regime and their allies are the worst evil.

Note: I am busy now so I will answer the rest of your allegations soon.

I'll narrow this down further, to avoid tangential discussions that we're voyaging off into. Don't get me wrong, I love it, but I think that because both of us are busy guys we could use some focus.

Let's assume it's 1970 and you have a choice to throw your lot in with Moscow, or with Washington. You know that both countries use some nefarious tactics to attain their political ends. Which of the two super-powers (The United States or Russia) would you prefer to join, assuming they are your only options?

The point I'm trying to prove here is that in fighting communism, America had to reach some new lows in regards to political tactics. But in the combat of an even worse enemy maybe those atrocities were understandable, and now that we are not fighting an enemy that can defeat us, we can reform our country around higher standards in regard to civil rights.

[wiseguy]

Why did the US regime and the Russian regime wage wars in foreign countries? They should wage wars in USA and Russia but they were afraid that wars might destroy their countries so they waged wars in foreign countries and they did not care if the foreign countries were destroyed and innocent people terrorized and massacred by the US and Russian regime and their allies.

After the Cold War, the US regime had defeated the USSR and Russia is too weak to resist the US imperialism so the US regime needs to find new weak opponents to demonstrate its superiority over the weak countries. And now we see the US regime and its US Armed Forces and their allies have invented lies and fairy tales as a pretext to attack Muslim countries and now they are attacking, invading, occupying and plundering Muslim countries such as Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan etc and terrorizing and massacring innocent Muslims.

Muslims who are defending the sovereignty and independence of their countries against the US-Zionist imperialism are being called Muslim terrorists by the US regime and the media. On the contrary, the West does not condemn the US Armed Forces that are behaving like the Nazi forces by attacking, invading, occupying and plundering Muslim countries such as Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan etc and terrorizing and massacring innocent Muslims.

[Deiter]

And now we see the US regime and its US Armed Forces and their allies have invented lies and fairy tales as a pretext to attack Muslim countries and now they are attacking, invading, occupying and plundering Muslim countries such as Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan etc and terrorizing and massacring innocent Muslims.

Plundering Afghanistan and Somalia? Of what, illiterate cab drivers? If we were intent on "plundering" Iraq, we'd have cordoned off the oil fields, rebuilt the infrastructure, and let the rest of the country happily go about slaughtering each other. Why are U.S. taxpayers shovelling $billions down yet more third-world ratholes in the hope of turning a pig's ear into a silk purse (no matter how many times we've seen that it's not possible)? When will the "Muslim world" show the same indignation about the slaughter of Muslims by other Muslims as they do about some stupid cartoons? The West doesn't condemn bad behaviour by Western forces? What planet are you living on? American soldiers are serving hard time for what amounted to frat house pranks, while not a word of condemnation is ever heard anywhere in the Muslim world about the jihadis whose primary victims are unarmed Muslims, often women and children. If the West wanted to act like "Nazis", there wouldn't be any Muslims left in the ME and oil would be $10 a barrel. I think your shame over the state of the Muslim world is beginning to affect your mental health. Get help.

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[Yasnov]

Plundering Afghanistan and Somalia? Of what, illiterate cab drivers? If we were intent on "plundering" Iraq, we'd have cordoned off the oil fields, rebuilt the infrastructure, and let the rest of the country happily go about slaughtering each other.

Well, you don't know yet the art of plundering ...

Why are U.S. taxpayers shovelling $billions down yet more third-world ratholes in the hope of turning a pig's ear into a silk purse (no matter how many times we've seen that it's not possible)?

Dumb and ignorant?

When will the "Muslim world" show the same indignation about the slaughter of Muslims by other Muslims as they do about some stupid cartoons?

In what cave are you living now?

If the West wanted to act like "Nazis", there wouldn't be any Muslims left in the ME and oil would be $10 a barrel.

Well, if oil is just $10, what would happen with all those Western oil companies? It will not be really different though whether you want to act like Nazi or not.

Wassalam,
Y

[Deiter]

Well, you don't know yet the art of plundering ...

We must be using a different dictionary:

Plunder (verb) - send troops half way around the world to try and drag some primitive, tribal society into the 10th Century no matter how many times it's failed in the past.

Dumb and ignorant?

Clearly, but we're finally catching on. Good luck during the next natural disaster. Hopefully the Muslim world will finally show up for a change instead of waiting for the filthy kaffir to come to the rescue time after time. Isn't that a bit humiliating by now?

In what cave are you living now?

A beautiful 4,000 sq. ft model, complete with a nice big cement pond.

Well, if oil is just $10, what would happen with all those Western oil companies?

They'll be making money hand over fist now that people are getting used to paying higher prices for gas.

It will not be really different though whether you want to act like Nazi or not.

Given the garbage that lives in these places you are completely correct.


Was salami,
D

[Yasnov]

We must be using a different dictionary:

You don't learn art of plundering from the dictionary

Clearly, but we're finally catching on.

Thank you for admitting that

Hopefully the Muslim world will finally show up for a change instead of waiting for the filthy kaffir to come to the rescue time after time. Isn't that a bit humiliating by now?

From what I read, they were begging us so that they were allowed to come and "help". In my country (and also in the other affected countries), those helpers were kicked out for trying to steal and brainwash the indigenous children. Some were lying fat politicians who could only pledge and pledge and pledge, and got the advantage in terms of reputation as being generous nations. Some were using this opportunity to have closer relationship with the Indonesian govt and to dictate them. It's humiliating to be forced to receive help from people like you.

A beautiful 4,000 sq. ft model, complete with a nice big cement pond.

So, why do you still think like a caveman then?

Given the garbage that lives in these places you are completely correct.

So, feel free to act like Nazis to those "garbages", after all, it's what your great great grand parents did throughout the history.

Wassalam,
Y

[Deiter]

You don't learn art of plundering from the dictionary

The Quran maybe?

Thank you for admitting that

You're quite welcome. It'll be a sad day in the Muslim world when the West finally admits this fact as well.

From what I read, they were begging us so that they were allowed to come and "help".

Where'd you read that, al Jazeerah? You're kidding, right?

In my country (and also in the other affected countries), those helpers were kicked out for trying to steal and brainwash the indigenous children.

I can see it now, Blackhawks full of screaming children being spiritied away to secret Christian brainwashing camps (kinda like madrassas). I'm no psychologist (I don't even play one on TV), but this sounds like a serious case of projection. Maybe you're imagining your brave friends there in Indonesia that murdered and beheaded 3 defenseless Catholic schoolgirls (a fourth managed to escape with critcal wounds) for the mortal sin of being kaffir.

Some were lying fat politicians who could only pledge and pledge and pledge, and got the advantage in terms of reputation as being generous nations.

We are generous to a fault. Hopefully that'll end soon so as not to humiliate the recipients of our assistance (they've got to grow up some time). Where were the Keepers of the Holy Sites, by the way? Apparently they don't even worry about appearing generous, even when the victims are primarily Muslims. Allah's will I suppose.

Some were using this opportunity to have closer relationship with the Indonesian govt and to dictate them.

Yeah, and we just can't wait for a natural disaster in Vanuatu so we can go dictate to them too.

It's humiliating to be forced to receive help from people like you.

I'll bet. So when's it going to change?

it's a rhetorical question because we all know the answer is NEVER...

So, why do you still think like a caveman then?

Truth hurts?

So, feel free to act like Nazis to those "garbages", after all, it's what your great great grand parents did throughout the history.

The funny thing is that we could, but don't. You're welcome.


Was salami,
D