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Number Of Iraqis(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetmarchforjustice(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/shock&awe.php"] Slaughtered[/url] In America's War on Iraq

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######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_icasualties(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/oif/images/nw_ah_iCasualties_25000.jpg[/img]
Narrated by Glenn Kutler, iCasualties(contact admin if its a beneficial link)
Dec. 11, 2006: Three years and nine months after the U.S.-led Coalition began its war against Saddam Hussein, researchers have quietly recorded another grim milestone in the cost of the conflict. American military casualties have now exceeded (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetmsnbc(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/modules/interactive.aspx?type=ss&launch=16059273,3032542&pg=1"]25,000[/url].

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[Hanafi]

Narrated by Glenn Kutler, iCasualties(contact admin if its a beneficial link)
Dec. 11, 2006: Three years and nine months after the U.S.-led Coalition began its war against Saddam Hussein, researchers have quietly recorded another grim milestone in the cost of the conflict. American military casualties have now exceeded 25,000.

The Americans are modern day scum we should celebrate not lament.

hasta la victoria siempre
and might i add ha ha ha

p.s take a look at my new article the true face of pakistan

[Slay]

Americans are not scum!!! We didnt crash planes into buildings!!! We aren't the crazies that are blowing up all the Iraqi children and women and men. And not to mention the barbarianism that jihadist display when cutting the heads off thier own muslims and others!!!! Get your facts right!!! I have alot of friends that are muslim. And they dont think like you. And yes some Iraqis have died by the hand of American troops. We are not perfect and they also feel really bad about it.

[kunya]

Americans are not scum!!! We didnt crash planes into buildings!!! We aren't the crazies that are blowing up all the Iraqi children and women and men. And not to mention the barbarianism that jihadist display when cutting the heads off thier own muslims and others!!!! Get your facts right!!! I have alot of friends that are muslim. And they dont think like you. And yes some Iraqis have died by the hand of American troops. We are not perfect and they also feel really bad about it.

SURE Americans are not scrums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What do call them then because in my dictionary they seem to be non the comparison, to

barbarian, barbarous, boorish, brutal, coarse, cruel, fierce, graceless, inhuman, lowbrow, primitive, rough, rude, tasteless, uncivilized, uncouth, vulgar, wild wolfish junkyard ash heap*, cesspit, depot, discard, dumping ground, garbage lot, junk pile*, magazine, nuisance grounds, refuse heap, rubbish pile, swamp, tip, mentally handicapped
dim-witted, dull-witted, dumb, half-witted, imbecilic, moronic, retarded, simple, slow, soft in the head, stupid, unintelligent, weak-minded
entally handicapped
Synonyms: dim-witted, dull-witted, dumb, half-witted, imbecilic, moronic, retarded, simple, slow, soft in the head, stupid, unintelligent, weak-minded



they seem to break to record for such thing , I say we should invent a whole new dictionary for them, I mean those American that support bush and bush himself.

[The Silent Force]

SURE Americans are not scrums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What do call them then because in my dictionary they seem to be non the comparison, to

barbarian, barbarous, boorish, brutal, coarse, cruel, fierce, graceless, inhuman, lowbrow, primitive, rough, rude, tasteless, uncivilized, uncouth, vulgar, wild wolfish junkyard ash heap*, cesspit, depot, discard, dumping ground, garbage lot, junk pile*, magazine, nuisance grounds, refuse heap, rubbish pile, swamp, tip, mentally handicapped
dim-witted, dull-witted, dumb, half-witted, imbecilic, moronic, retarded, simple, slow, soft in the head, stupid, unintelligent, weak-minded
entally handicapped
Synonyms: dim-witted, dull-witted, dumb, half-witted, imbecilic, moronic, retarded, simple, slow, soft in the head, stupid, unintelligent, weak-minded

they seem to break to record for such thing , I say we should invent a whole new dictionary for them, I mean those American that support bush and bush himself.

Okay, can we please refrain from insulting each other? Thanks.

I am shcoked to know that over one million Iraqis have been killed. I had no idea the number was this high - are these figures Iraq civilians, or do they include those Iraqis fighting for their country?

As the post was made a while back, do we have any new figures?
I like the 'cost counter' icon - this is one expensive war, that may even put the United States in debt. I mean, $400 and something billion? Does the US actually have that money to throw around?

[Umm e Sarwat]

Salam Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa BArakatuhum



The study is the latest in a long series of attempts to come up with realistic numbers of civilian deaths. The numbers are politically fraught, and researchers’ work has been further complicated by problems in collecting data while working in a war zone.

The estimates have varied widely. The Iraq Body Count, a nongovernmental group based in Britain that bases its numbers on news media accounts, put the number of civilians dead at 47,668 during the same period of time as the World Health Organization study, the W.H.O. report said. President Bush in the past used a number that was similar to one put forward at the time by the Iraq Body Count.

But another study, by Johns Hopkins, which has come under criticism for its methodology, cited an estimate of about 600,000 dead between the war’s start, in March 2003, and July 2006.

The World Health Organization said its study, based on interviews with families, indicated with a 95 percent degree of statistical certainty that between 104,000 and 223,000 civilians had died. It based its estimate of 151,000 deaths on that range.

Those figures made violence the leading cause of adult male deaths in Iraq and one of the leading causes of death for the population as a whole, the health organization research team reported online in the New England Journal of Medicine. More than half the violent deaths occurred in Baghdad.

While the new study appears to have the broadest scope to date, increasing its reliability, well known limitations of such efforts in war areas make it unlikely to resolve debate about the extent of the killing in Iraq.

Iraqi officials gave conflicting assessments of the newest study, with one senior Health Ministry official praising it and another saying the numbers were exaggerated.

The White House said that it had not seen the study and would not comment on its estimated death toll, but that the recent increase in American forces had reduced civilian and military casualties. “We mourn the deaths of all people in Iraq,” said Jeanie Mamo, a White House spokeswoman.

In any case, the study ended four months after the bombing of a revered Shiite shrine in Samarra helped set off a wave of killings throughout Baghdad and other mixed Sunni-Shiite areas. So because of its timing, the study missed the period of what is believed to be the worst sectarian killings, during the latter half of 2006 and the first eight months of 2007.

The figures on violent deaths were part of a large study of chronic illnesses, mental health status, environmental risk factors and other factors affecting family health in Iraq. The figures were based on interviews with 9,345 heads of households across the country that had been selected according to statistical methods that are standard in peaceful areas. The interviewers, who were employees of the Iraqi Ministry of Health, had been trained how to ask the survey questions and to assign the stated causes of deaths.

The surveyors largely conducted their work in August and September 2006. In Baghdad, Shiite militiamen, often acting in coordination with or with the acquiescence of fellow Shiites in the Iraq security forces, purged many neighborhoods of Sunnis. Many were grabbed, handcuffed, shot in the head and dumped with other victims. Sunni insurgents continued their campaign of terrorizing Shiite areas with car bombs and other attacks.

In fact, one co-author, Louay Hakki Rasheed, was killed on his way to work on Aug. 2, 2007. The extraordinarily dangerous security situation prevented surveyors from visiting about 11 percent of the areas that the researchers had intended to visit.

Most of the places that were off-limits to the researchers were in Anbar Province, the Sunni-dominated region of western Iraq. While there have been significant security improvements in Anbar in the past year — after Sunni tribal leaders joined with United States troops to drive out extremist militants — in 2006 the province was a lawless haven dominated by insurgents.

Most of the other areas into which the researchers could not go for safety reasons were in Baghdad, which at the time was being ripped into balkanized concentrations of Shiites and Sunnis. Some neighborhoods looked like urban ghost towns, as the residents who did not have the money or the ability to flee the country stayed holed up in their homes rather than risk being abducted or killed by the death squads and gangs of criminals and insurgents who roamed much of the capital freely.

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetnytimes(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2008/01/10/world/middleeast/10casualties.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetnytimes(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2008/01/10/world/mi...casualties.html[/url]

[snappingyro]

So what it's saying is about 151,000 Iraqis have been killed, mostly by the 'freedom fighters'. That sounds about right.

[red horse]

Indeed , most Iraqis have died ...at the hands of fellow Iraqis . That's not "pc " around here ...is it ?

[Ahsan]

Indeed , most Iraqis have died ...at the hands of fellow Iraqis . That's not "pc " around here ...is it ?

By giving arms and munitions to the rival groups with a view to spark sectarian rifts and minimize own casualties. But still the number is far behind than the killings occured due to air bombings and indiscriminate killings of Iraqis by the foreign invaders.

[ghorbanifar]

By giving arms and munitions to the rival groups with a view to spark sectarian rifts and minimize own casualties. But still the number is far behind than the killings occured due to air bombings and indiscriminate killings of Iraqis by the foreign invaders.

The U.S. is arming the sane Iraqis' in the hopes that they'll kill the crazy, Islamofacist Iraqis' and their foriegn jihadi buddies. The U.S. doesn't do that many airstrikes anymore. The '40,000 pound' strike the other day killed no civilians. By far, the bulk of the deaths in Iraq are at the hands of your so-called 'freedom fighters'. It isn't even close. Every day, scores are killed by the 'freedom fighters'. Ahsan talks out of an orafice other than his mouth.

[red horse]

By giving arms and munitions to the rival groups with a view to spark sectarian rifts and minimize own casualties. But still the number is far behind than the killings occured due to air bombings and indiscriminate killings of Iraqis by the foreign invaders.

Oh , does the US bend their arms to suicide bomb civilians waiting on bread lines ? Or the Masjid ?
Wasd it the US , who "made a sucide bomber " slaughter people celebrating Asura today ?

Iraqis have no minds of their own ? They do not know right from wrong ?

And No , you are wrong , the number of Iraqis killed at the hands of Iraqis FAR EXCEEDS any killed by air-raids , and as far as " indiscrimunate killings " ...."executions couple with mutilations " , Iraqis got the US beat hands down on their worst day .

The US need not "spark " sectarian violence , that has been going on for millenia , in fact the very celerbration of Asura commemorates an Immam and 72 fiollowers who were killed by " political oponents " .....

Do not speak as if no one else knows what is going on besides yourself , for you know it too , but are towing your own political line .

Oh , and "foreign invaders " , yes , Al Queda from Chechnya , Saudi Arabia , and assorted jihadis from around the globe , participate in the suicide-bomb-fest , and mostly all of the casualties are IRAQIS .
Syria facilitates their entry into Iraq , as wel as Iran , who also gives them the weapons ....to kill their own Iraqi rivals .
Before the US ever entered Iraq , before even the first Gulf War ....Iraqis were killing Iraqis , Sunni killing Shia , and Sunni killing Kurds , and to date those numbers slaughtered , still exceed by far anything occurring in Iraq due to US forces .

-most people on these threads choose to turn their heads away from the ugly truth , but would rather uphold their rhetoric and rehearsed propaganda , but that is overshadowed , every day,by the truth of the matter .
Sorry , but the statistics simply do NOT prove you out .

[Dieter]

We were done killing 3 weeks after the war started (so much of Saddam's fearless warriors). What's happened since is purely a reflection of the Iraqi people themselves. We should have known they were capable of no better that a brutal dicatorship (THAT was the biggest pre-war intelligence failure). Why didn't this type of behavior break out across Europe as countries were freed of the Nazi invaders?

[Uztache]

We were done killing 3 weeks after the war started (so much of Saddam's fearless warriors). What's happened since is purely a reflection of the Iraqi people themselves. We should have known they were capable of no better that a brutal dicatorship (THAT was the biggest pre-war intelligence failure). Why didn't this type of behavior break out across Europe as countries were freed of the Nazi invaders?

they wouldve been the leftover nazi insurgents. i do admit the Iraqi situation is beyond reproach, but you have to take into account their brutal suppression and the religious turnover of power, lot of vengeances, lot of bad memories....also theyre being killed by everyone, US Military, Iraqi Police, Sunni, Shia, Foreign Insurgent, they all must be very paranoid. Especially when the man next to you could explode at any second, fear makes you do crazy things.

[red horse]

Indeed Uztache , and most of what you have just mentioned , regardless of reason or rationale , is being done by Iraqis to Iraqis .
Iraqi people are not like little robots where when someone pushes a button , they automatically go about killing each other .
The majority of the killing going on in Iraq ,is simply not being done by the Americans .

And the suicide bomber who killed himself and others at the Iraqi masjid , is reported to have been a shia , with views similar to those of Ahmadinejab, regarding end times and the Mahdi ....this smacks of Iranian influence .

[Umm e Sarwat]

Assalam Alaikum

Werent Iraqis better off before Bush THe terrorist invaded them...

Now you say they kill each other, well you kill their ruler, bombard the place .. tel me wat psychological effect is left

[Dieter]

Werent Iraqis better off before Bush THe terrorist invaded them...

The Sunnis of Saddam's tribe certainly were, but I doubt that the Shia, Kurds, Marsh Arabs, etc would agree. The could've been ALOT better off afterwards if they were capable of managing even a semi-civilized society after Saddam was removed.

Now you say they kill each other, well you kill their ruler, bombard the place .. tel me wat psychological effect is left

The psychological effect of being freed from a psychopath? Rulers like Saddam need killing and the "bombardment" was over in 3 weeks. The uncomfortable truth is that you have a primitive, tribal society where the various groups can only be kept from slaughtering each other by a brutal dictator. Sad but apparently true throughout the region.

[stargazer]

The Real Iraq Body Count

What You're Not Supposed to Know







These ordinary Iraqis were victims of senseless violence. Were they killed by an American bomb or a Saudi suicide bomber? Hint: IraqBodyCount doesn't want you to know.


(Updated 2/02/07)

Our staff sometimes hears from people who complain - in hit and run fashion - about the "tens of thousands" of innocent Iraqis killed by "American cluster bombs" and other instruments of destruction that the "occupiers" are supposedly dropping on Saddam Hussein's once idyllic "Muslim land." Sometimes the claims run into the hundreds of thousands. Sometimes even the millions.

Usually the critics are just sanctimonious types who use these ridiculous numbers to trash America, since that seems to make them feel better about themselves. At times, however, they are upfront about their support for the "insurgents," which (as we demonstrate here) is an extreme irony.

In fact, terrorist leaders in Iraq keep the conflict going by recruiting Muslims with videos and other propaganda that imply the Americans are killing Iraqi civilians. This, in turn, creates more dead Iraqis.

But, enter IraqBodyCount(contact admin if its a beneficial link), an anti-war organization that was envisioned even before the Iraq War began, with the heady ambition of documenting each and every victim of American aggression in order to turn public opinion against the action to remove Saddam (let's just say they aren't too concerned about the hundreds of mass graves unearthed from the Ba'athist era).

Somewhere along the way, however, the harsh reality began to sink in that America was acting as no other country in history has ever acted to prevent civilian casualties in warfare. As a matter of fact, more American troops have been killed in the conflict than have civilians been killed by Americans. Americans are literally taking casualties to prevent casualties on the part of Iraqi civilians.

Though mere mortals might be prompted to reconsider their prejudices at this point, the folks at IraqBodyCount reacted by quietly changing their mission to include the victims of terrorists - the very people that the Americans are trying to stop. Their dubious body-count even includes members of the Iraqi security forces, who are part of the coalition.

In other words, people who are killed trying to stop terrorists are counted as victims of their own effort - as if deadly attacks against the innocent should be tolerated by those in a position to discourage it. Of course, no one thinks this way in real life. Who would lay the blame for rape victims at the feet of those who campaign against sexual abuse?

Another big problem with IraqBodyCount's statistics is that it even include the terrorists themselves. Enemy combatants in Iraq don't wear uniforms or carry ID cards, and all it takes for someone to make the list is to wind up in a hospital or morgue from "the effects of trauma." How many true civilians were really "killed by Americans" at Fallujah? Probably very few.

Look further and you'll also find that one out of every 50 "war victims" on the list actually came from a stampede at a religious festival on a single day, August 31,2005, that neither the Americans, Iraqi security forces, nor even the terrorists were anywhere near. No doubt the Americans are somehow responsible for Hajj stampedes in Mecca as well.

Unfortunately, few of the people who quote IraqBodyCount's sensational numbers (or even the wilder figures from other sources that are obvious products of invention) bother to put much thought into what they really represent. Fewer still choose to drill into the data to discover the identity of those who kill.

In fact, if you do make it through the donation solicitation pages on the main site and begin to browse their database, you'll notice that the tables are conspicuously missing a column - the party responsible for each attack.

There's a reason for this, as we discovered when we analyzed each incident to answer this question. It turns out that the vast majority of civilian deaths are caused by Islamic terrorists, and that very few are from American bombs and bullets. This is because (unlike the terrorists) the Americans aren't in Iraq to kill civilians.

Why does IraqBodyCount vilify Americans, who are literally giving their blood to help Iraqis, while protecting the activities of foreign terrorists, who enter the country specifically to kill civilians? Because the website and the terrorists both share an anti-American political agenda to which the lives of innocent Iraqis are nothing more than a supporting prop.

In fact, Iraqis are mere statistics to these folks. And since the value of these statistics is substantially mitigated by presenting the full truth, IraqBodyCount wisely avoids identifying each incident by relevant context.

Since our sympathies are merely for the innocent, and not filtered by anti-American bigotry, we decided to sift through the data to discover the information that IraqBodyCount doesn't want you to know. We carefully examined their list of incidents from January 1, 2006 through December 31st to come up with some idea of who's really behind all those alleged civilian casualties.

Obviously it would have been easier to do this if IraqBodyCount kept track of the party responsible for each attack rather than, say, the time of day that it took place, but (as we found out) this extremely pertinent information completely undermines their preferred conclusions and so it is omitted (to the indifference of fawning new organizations).

Despite this imprecise science, we feel confident in our general findings.

Since the beginning of the year, we counted exactly fifty incidents involving U.S. troops in which civilians were said to have been killed. Some were air strikes against terrorists, others were raids against or ambushes by terrorists in which civilians were killed in the crossfire. Although the Americans aren't trying to kill civilians and the terrorists are, we added most of these to our count anyway just to allay suspicion.

There were thousands of Islamic terrorist attacks in Iraq during 2006. IraqBodyCount often uses a "who really gives a rat's ######" method of counting deaths that even they have to admit contains overlap, so it's difficult to discern the true number of dead bodies from the beginning of the year, but the site appears to be reporting between 18,000 and 26,000 civilians killed (so much for accuracy). What's clearer is that only about 225 of these involve American troops - or about 1 in 100.

So far, there have only been three or four incidents since the war began that involve non-combatants killed intentionally by American criminals - all of of which were deplored and prosecuted by the U.S. (By contrast, Muslim terrorists commit more atrocities than that against the innocent every single day with extreme malice). The relatively small number of deaths attributed to the Americans are either accidental or a result of the collateral damage from a targeted attack against terrorists that saved lives in the long run.

The wide moral distinction between collateral damage against terrorists and the intentional murder of civilians is not done justice merely by counting bodies. Anyone who pretends not to understand this is either a fool or a liar.

Since the terror campaign in Iraq is fueled by propaganda, publicizing the truth about the extraordinary measures that American troops are taking to protect civilian life would almost certainly prevent more civilians from being killed. In 2006, the number of civilians who died in encounters between the Americans and the terrorists was about four times lower than the number of U.S. troops killed.

In short, civilians in Iraq aren't dying from the war. They are being murdered by Islamic terrorists.