102 replies to this topic

[Truth-Searcher]

The Bible explained that Satan is a super-intelligent liar and deceiver.
It warned that “Satan transforms himself into an angel of light”.
It warned against “an angel from heaven” who preaches another gospel.
It gave instructions on how to test “spirits” to see if they are from God or from Satan!
It also warned about the coming of many demons, false prophets, false teachers, etc.

600 years later … an “angel” who called itself “Gabriel” appeared to Mohammed.
It was NOT tested for any kind of authenticity, and much of what it said is opposed to what the Bible says.
The obvious question is: Was this a false “angel” who came and deceived Mohammed?
(Another “angel” deceived Joseph Smith resulting in Mormonism.)

[Orthodox]

The jinn are created from smokless fire. And shaytan are its offsprings.

What the Bible says may or may not be true because it cannot be traced back to its original source i.e. the prophets (pbut).

There is a better answer to your question. I'll get it soon.

Edited by Orthodox, 16 June 2010 - 08:56 PM.

[Truth-Searcher]

Thanks, orthodox, you always have a wonderful answer for me.

[Orthodox]

I don't deserve such recognition and there is nothing to thank me for. You are welcome.

[JamesYaqub]

The Bible explained that Satan is a super-intelligent liar and deceiver.
It warned that “Satan transforms himself into an angel of light”.
It warned against “an angel from heaven” who preaches another gospel.
It gave instructions on how to test “spirits” to see if they are from God or from Satan!
It also warned about the coming of many demons, false prophets, false teachers, etc.

600 years later … an “angel” who called itself “Gabriel” appeared to Mohammed.
It was NOT tested for any kind of authenticity, and much of what it said is opposed to what the Bible says.
The obvious question is: Was this a false “angel” who came and deceived Mohammed?
(Another “angel” deceived Joseph Smith resulting in Mormonism.)

Brother,

Why do you trouble us with these kinds of posts? Do you try to win converts to Christianity? Are you serving God in some way? We have heard all these sorts of things before, many times. In Islam there is no requisite for believing without first coming to a measure of intellectual understanding of that which is given in scripture. We read the Qur'an with our hearts as well as with our minds. Those of us who doubt the Qur'an and go to Christianity will perhaps, after a time, doubt the Bible in the same way.

No one on this site has any interest in planting seeds of doubt in the minds of Christians concerning the Bible. This would not a Godly or charitable thing to do. Your inquires into Islam are not sincere. You have no interest in discovering but only in "messing with Muslims". Are you a real Christian who follows Jesus (pbuh)? It does not seem so.

Before any of us may know God we must know ourselves. To this goal the highest standards of personal integrity are necessary.

May God Bring You Understanding and Peace,

JamesYaqub

[al faqeer]

Simple examine the content of the Quran and see how it compares to the Bible.

Let me ask you something , will you read the Chapter in Ezekial of Ahola and Aholiba to your Kids as a bed time story ?

[Truth-Searcher]

Faqeer,

Yes, perhaps some wish to continue a little with this particular thread.

IF Satan came himself (or sent one of his demons) as "Gabriel ...
you must realize that he would have done everything possible to not only
deceive Mohammed and friends, but many others in the future as well.
He would have mixed some truths with falsehoods.
He could have made his words sound poetic and beautiful, etc.
Almost anything he desired, he could have done (with GOD's permission).
... Because he won the right to be "the god/ruler of this world".

Also, GOD doesn't pull any punches in the Bible; He tells it the way it is.
You should know by now that people don't want to hear the truth about things.
The Bible is no fairy tale to make people feel good. Sorry if it upsets you, but ...

[freedslave]

IF Satan came himself (or sent one of his demons) as "Gabriel ...
you must realize that he would have done everything possible to not only
deceive Mohammed and friends, but many others in the future as well.
He would have mixed some truths with falsehoods.

He could have made his words sound poetic and beautiful, etc.
Almost anything he desired, he could have done (with GOD's permission).
... Because he won the right to be "the god/ruler of this world".

Is this idea really one that you, TruthSearcher, has deduced from the Bible, or have you taken it from other sources which purport lies at the religion of Islam, i.e. the Satanic Verses.

If it is really produced from the Bible, can I see the verses?

The scriptures, mostly the hadiths, state that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had seen Angel Gabriel come to him several times in the 23 years of revelation in his life, in different forms. The Prophet had seen Gabriel in the form of a man, but also in Gabriel's true form, where the angel Gabriel was so huge and had many wings.

If you say this was Satan impersonating an angel, you are merely shooting the hearts of all monotheistic religions, including yours. The question can then be posted back to you; how do you know that when Angel Gabriel came to Mary (peace be upon her), and all other biblical prophets in their respective times and lives, this was not Satan?

My question to you; why single out only Prophet Muhammad's experience with Angle Gabriel?

Why not further the idea of this outrageous conspiracy to all biblical prophets? How do we know that in all biblical prophets' experiences with Angel Gabriel, that it was an angel or a demon?

I say you are only shooting yourself in the foot when you say this.

You say Satan has intelligence, and we Muslims believe this is true for all demons. But we also believe that Mankind too has intelligence, God has bestowed upon to us this gift. Through intelligence and faith in our hearts, we possess the quality to distinguish between good and evil. This is why the Prophets, and the people who heeded their message, were able recognise that this was a message from God, not as some conspiracy from a demon.
People in the past and the present are able to recognise between true and false prophets. They are able to recognise between people of faiths who generally mean no harm unto others and fulfil their acts of worship by prayers and other good deeds, as well as people from deviant or satanic groups, whose deeds are not acts of worship but rather acts which please or even in collaboration with demons.
Give Man credit where it is due, we have intelligence too.

You very well know that the purpose of demon is to stray Mankind away from the worship of his Creator. Why then would a demon conspire with man to create a religion that worships God? The idea makes no sense and sounds preposterous.

[Truth-Searcher]

FreedSlave,

This to me is obvious from Scripture, spiritual revelation, and common sense and reason,
but there are no specific verses regarding your quote above, except there are many
verses about Satan being a great liar and deceiver, and "the god/ruler of this world".

Satan is maybe 1000 times more intelleigent than any human;
before his pride caused him to rebel, he was God?s #1 arch-angel.
Man?s intelligence is total garbage compared to God and Satan.
?we possess the quality to distinguish between good and evil? ? total nonsense.
This is just ANOTHER lie from Satan, your mortal enemy.

Satan is the greatest liar and deceiver in history, period.
His demons put thoughts into peoples? minds all the time.
You have no chance against Satan and his demons, period.
Also, historically, man has always been a spiritual idiot, period
(just look at all of the religions, sects, cults, etc.)
If you happen to come into any spiritual Truth at all, it is only because
you were lucky enough to receive spiritual revelation from God.

All of God?s angels came to all of God?s chosen instruments
(for the express purpose of writing the Bible) ended around 90 A.D.
The N.T. warns about false angels, false prophets, demons, etc.
coming in the future with the express purpose of deceiving humans.
The N.T. gave instructions how to TEST for false angels, spirits, etc. (1 John 4:1-3).
Why man should suspect every angel visitation after 90 A.D. is obvious.
Mormonism began when the false angel ?Moroni? visited Joseph Smith.

?Why then would a demon conspire with man to create a religion that worships God??
Obviously, the only reason for this is ? if it was not really God at all.

You are welcome to e-mail me privately.

[Panentheist13]

or it had nothing to do with a cranky old cast-off angel trickter, when a man has been walking with us since the beginning with a big o' belly full of hatred for the Lord, man, and all creation. You'all know him. You see him around but go the other way without asking why. You hide your children from him and cower when you see his face on government tv advertisements. Everyone is looking up in the air for their fallen angel to blame, so they don't see you down here old man, with your filthy paws in everything. Children snatched, Temples bombed. Old man, you been whispering in all our ears since day one and nobody sees it. You bear the heavy mark. So duplicity. So much denial. You were the first. I see you now. We all will godwilling....




Panentheist13


(This thread had a comic book for me this late at night, so you get my response)

[al faqeer]

Faqeer,

Yes, perhaps some wish to continue a little with this particular thread.

IF Satan came himself (or sent one of his demons) as "Gabriel ...
you must realize that he would have done everything possible to not only
deceive Mohammed and friends, but many others in the future as well.
He would have mixed some truths with falsehoods.
He could have made his words sound poetic and beautiful, etc.
Almost anything he desired, he could have done (with GOD's permission).
... Because he won the right to be "the god/ruler of this world".

Also, GOD doesn't pull any punches in the Bible; He tells it the way it is.
You should know by now that people don't want to hear the truth about things.
The Bible is no fairy tale to make people feel good. Sorry if it upsets you, but ...

The Words have followers who reflect its implementation , look at us and look at those who think some guy on cross died for their sins so they can do as they please .

I mean isnt it so obvious who has been inspired by the Devil ?

Read the book of Ezekial , on Ahola and Aholiba and that will be obvious then answer me if you can read it to your kids .

[Truth-Searcher]

The Words have followers who reflect its implementation , look at us and look at those
who think some guy on cross died for their sins so they can do as they please .

I mean isnt it so obvious who has been inspired by the Devil ?

Read the book of Ezekial , on Ahola and Aholiba and that will be obvious then answer me if you can read it to your kids .

Again, it's the problem of under-estimating Satan and his demons,
and over-estimating man's goodness, wisdom, spiritual capabilities, etc.
WHAT do you think Satan would attack? ... GOD's Book
WHO do you think Satan would attack? ... GOD's people.
So yes, obviously, GOD's people are "inspired by the devil" almost constantly.

I've said before: Satan's demons specialize in putting thoughts into our minds.
So what is of paramount importance is for man to put his thoughts through the FILTER of the Bible.
Jesus mentioned many times the critical value of being an "OVERCOMER",
which is all about believing and following what is taught in the Bible,
which gives man everything he needs to know to actually be an overcomer.
But, we have two great enemies: our fallen nature, and the demonic influence.
Both of these war against our possibility of having spiritual success.
Two ways of escape are both mandatory:
believing in the Savior and his gospel, and being sanctified (made clean) by the Holy Spirit.

I've said before: the Bible tells the truth and doesn't pull any punches.
Many things about man's nature are horrible, but GOD is not going to pretend they don't exist.
The whole O.T. was set up to PROVE to everyone that man is a hopeless sinner (needs a Savior).
The second major reason for it was to bring forth MESSIAH (Savior) through the (protected) Jews.
That guy on the cross had GOD inside of him for many reasons ... one being to ensure that
the guy would not sin, and so be the prefect (and final) sacifificial lamb.

But, believing all of the above "foolishness" (1 Cor. 1:18) requires special revelation from GOD.
(There are many, many verses about this fact.)

[al faqeer]

Why are you making yourself typing so much and not answering me straight on ?

Would you like me to post the verses of Ahola and Aholiba here for everyone to see who has been inspired by the Devil ?

[Truth-Searcher]

Why are you making yourself typing so much and not answering me straight on ?

Would you like me to post the verses of Ahola and Aholiba here for everyone to see who has been inspired by the Devil ?

Okay, answering you straight on …

No, it’s okay … everyone has read them … but, thank you anyway.
I wouldn't necessarily say they were inspired by the devil ...
because I don't know for sure what caused them to sin.

When YOU sin, was it because you were inspired by the devil?
Or, was it because of your sin nature?
Or, was it because your sin nature chose to act on the thought
that the devil put in your mind?

The Bible tells the truth and doesn't pull any punches.
Many things about man's nature are horrible, but GOD is not going to pretend they don't exist.
He’s going to tell the truth about it. The Bible is deadly serious … it’s no fairy-tale.
Since it was inspired by God, there's probably a reason for everything in there.

[razz]

I think your giving waaaay to much power to satan. I mean seriously have you read the Quran? Even non-muslims will agree that its a literary masterpiece. You keep saying that the bible tell the truth, how do you know? I mean how do you know what the first bible even looked liked? Its common knowledge that biblical scholars can add or delete things in the bible if they come to a agreement about what they think is appropriate. We have the first Quran and nothing has been altered, that in itself is a miracle.

[Truth-Searcher]

Razz,

I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Like, you're wrong on almost every count.
Maybe our polite and tactful Christians on this Forum will say, "Amen".
Then again, maybe they won't.
If you'd like to e-mail me, I'll explain some things.

[razz]

what am I wrong about? the fact that the bible has been tampered with? How can I be wrong when there are different versions of the bible? So are you telling me that the king james version that my mother was raised on was not compiled or approved by a king? If not then why the heck do they call it a king james bible? and why do you keep telling people to "privately email" you? If you have something to "explain" to me then just post it.

[Orthodox]

]think your giving waaaay to much power to satan. I mean seriously have you read the Quran? Even non-muslims will agree that its a literary masterpiece. You keep saying that the bible tell the truth, how do you know? I mean how do you know what the first bible even looked liked? Its common knowledge that biblical scholars can add or delete things in the bible if they come to a agreement about what they think is appropriate. We have the first Quran and nothing has been altered, that in itself is a miracle.

[/b]
I want to highlight this^ JazzakAllahu Khayr sister.

Edited by Orthodox, 05 July 2010 - 06:00 AM.

[al faqeer]

Sorry mate , those verses in the bible is ###### sweet and simple .

You see the Bible contains :

1 - A few words of God like 3%
2- Some words of Prophets like 9%
3 - All words of 3rd persons and historians claiming to be inspired ( By who god knows) and after reading Ezekiel
and Revelation its obvious its not God .
4- It filled with mutilation and explicit sexual content .

So you cant even think of throwing Muslims with stones or you will be humiliated .

[razz]

o I just wanted to add that I recently heard (I dont know if this is true, maybe you can shed some light on it) that the book of Armageddon was written by 4 guys on shrooms. Apparently getting high on shrooms was common back then and they went up to a mountain, ate some shrooms, and started to come up with the material for Argmageddon. Again i dont know if this is true but it would be funny if it were I can just see them "DRAGONS!!, FIReballs raining DOWN!!