56 replies to this topic

[TonyJ]

Here one for rapes, you would find the top offenders are mostly the western countries:
you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetnationmaster(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/graph/cri_rap_...me-rape-victims

The list you provided does not have a single Muslim country on it. Of course Western countries will be at the top of the list if all the countries on the list are western. How about asking why are there no Muslims countries on that list? Could it be that it is virtually impossible to get any persepective on the scale of the problem of domestic violence because in these traditional, male dominated societies, most women are too afraid to report the issue?

MURDER
In 2005, 1,181 women were murdered by an intimate partner.1 That's an average of three women every day. Of all the women murdered in the U.S., about one-third were killed by an intimate partner.2
you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetnow(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/issues/violence/stats.html

This link is even worse as it is about the USA alone.

This is another pathetic statement, "Domestic violence is not actually a crime in most Muslim countries"? Let see some credible evidence on this

I do not claim to be an expert on the topic, but a quick wikipedia check brought up a table that lists the proportions of women that are victims of domestic violence and what laws are in place to prevent abuse of women in many Muslim countries (type "Islam and domestic violence" in wikipedia search and it should come up) It is worth noting that of the countries on that list, Only Tunisia appears to have strict laws agaisnt domestic violence punishable by prison sentences. There are a number of other countries that are just now beginning to pass legislation which is a step in the right direction. Here is some of the info:

Bangladesh: Enacted it's first legislation on domestic violence in 2010.

Statistics from four United Nations studies show that 16-19% of the women (age less than 50) were victims of domestic abuse within the previous 12 month period. 40-47% of the women had been subject to domestic violence during some period of their life.
From a World Health Organization (WHO) study, of which Bangladesh was 1 of 10 participating countries, it was found that less than 2% of domestic abuse victims seek support from the community to resolve abusive situations, primarily because they know that they won't receive the support they need to remedy the issue.

Egypt:
From a United Nations national study in 1995, 13% of the women (age 15-49) were victims of domestic abuse within the previous 12 month period. 34% of the women had been subject to domestic violence during some period of their life. In a 2004 study of pregnant women in El-Sheik Zayed 11% of the women (age 15-49) studied were victims of domestic abuse within the previous 12 month period and, also, during some period of their life.[

Iran:
In 2004 a study of domestic violence was undertaken by the Women's Center for Presidential Advisory, Ministry of Higher Education and The Interior Ministry of capital cities in Iran's 28 provinces. 66% married women in Iran are subjected to some kind of domestic violence in the first year of their marriage, either by their husbands or by their in-laws. All married women who were participants in this study in Iran have experienced 7.4% of the 9 categories of abuse. The likelihood of being subject to violence varied: The more children in a family or the more rural the family lived, the greater the likelihood of domestic violence; Educated and career women were less likely to be victims of abuse. 9.63% of women in the study reported wishing their husbands would die, as a result of the abuse they have experienced.[4]

The prevalence of domestic violence has been cited as a cause of high rates of suicide, mostly through self-immolation, among Kurdish women in Iran.

Existing laws (Iranian Code of Criminal Procedure articles 42, 43, 66) intend to prohibit violence in the form of kidnapping, gender-based harassment, abuse of pregnant women and "crimes against rights and responsibilities within the family structure," but due to cultural and political culture do not protect women, prosecute their abusers and provide services to victims.[4][46]
The government has laws that support violence against women in the case of adultery, including flogging, imprisonment and death.[4]

true Muslim would try imitate the prophet and follow his examples, and he said, the best among the Muslims are the ones who are best to their wives. The prophet s.a never lay a hand on any of his wife and he clearly prohibited what as what can be described as domestic violence in our present terms.

You are right that a Hadith reports that Muhammad said that the best among the Muslims are the ones who are best with their wives. But Muslims rely on the Koran as the foremost authority, the Hadiths are only supposed to be used as a back-up or when the Koran is unclear on certain issues. So if Muhammad did say what is reported in that Hadith, he did not think it important enough to go into the Koran. This is what he says about domestic violence in the Koran:

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great. Koran 4.34

So clearly Muhammad did not prohibit domestic violence, in fact he encouraged it in the Koran itself. And it is also not true that Muhammad never beat his wives, according to the Sahih Muslim Haidth he did strike Aisha:

"He struck me on the chest which caused me pain", Sahih Muslim, Book 4, # 2127:

[RAHIMI]

I'll respond to this perhaps tomorrow IA, it's almost 12 where I am..too many issues here...

[TonyJ]

I'll respond to this perhaps tomorrow IA, it's almost 12 where I am..too many issues here...

No problem, take your time. I look forward to it.

[mrhyder]

Sahih Muslim Haidth he did strike Aisha: QUOTE(AISHA)
"He struck me on the chest which caused me pain", Sahih Muslim, Book 4, # 2127:

Just showing one line can be very misleading. The hadith doesn't say there was an argument or a fight or that the Prophet pbuh was upset with her. We should be careful before posting our own conclusions; especially when the conclusions are placing accusations against the prophet pbuh.

[Scotia]

Gulnaz raped in Afghanistan, sentanced to 12 years in jail for adultry or marry her rapist, nothing degrading there i guess.

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetbbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-15678935"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetbbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-15678935[/url]

Just 1 of many examples.

[TonyJ]

Just showing one line can be very misleading. The hadith doesn't say there was an argument or a fight or that the Prophet pbuh was upset with her. We should be careful before posting our own conclusions; especially when the conclusions are placing accusations against the prophet pbuh.

I posted one line for the sake of brevity. It was the only line that was relevant. Whether or not there was a verbal argument prior to Muhammad striking Aisha is not really relevant.

[mrhyder]

brother; for the sake of brevity; we shouldn't insult the Prophet Pbuh by bringing people to false conclusions about a Hadith. This is a tactic used by the Islamaphobic website. There are many more one liners they use in a way to bring ppl to wrong conclusions.

[RAHIMI]

Recap: Your contention is that, Islam is oppressive to women, to prove your point, like the poster above, you highlighted a number of cases mainly what you and the media termed as ‘honour killing’, ie so called ‘Muslim’ men killing Muslim women.
My contention being, such a conclusion is flawed since the act itself is against what Islam teaches, Islam would never condone such an act and the perpetrators for such an act can be punished by death under the Islamic ruling. It is also flawed in the sense that such an act of murdering and abusing women is also widespread in the western countries including yours. The statistics prove this. If you want to dispute the statistic, then you should take it up with the agencies or bodies responsible for them. By saying uh uh their number is lower because the victims were scared and most crimes did not get reported is your own provocative and conjectures. I had spent months in Pakistan, living within their community and also within the Afghan communities, and yes they too live in a community and very very unlikely that something as serious as murder would go unreported to the authority. Yes, domestic violence is a problem in just about every society in the planet but to claim higher moral ground , given that nearly a couple of thousand women are killed by their own husband/boyfriend every year in your own country, is ludicrous.

I posted one line for the sake of brevity. It was the only line that was relevant. Whether or not there was a verbal argument prior to Muhammad striking Aisha is not really relevant.

Quoting a sentence out of a pageful of narration and that is for the sake of brevity or is it for the convenience of quoting things out of context?

You know, Aisha ra has over two thousand hadiths to her credit and not a single one talks ill i.e showing hatred, or indicate abuse by her husband. If you truthfully go through her narrations, they are not something that were written by some abuse victim but of that of a wife who is very much in love with her husband pbuh. There are accounts by her of both of them playfully raced one another, holding him in her arm at his moment of death etc..
You know how we are supposed to save somebody from drowning? One way to get them calm down (and to avoid both of you fr drowning) is either to slap or punch them. Now imagine someone narrated her almost drowning experience, blab la..He punched me..bla bla bla..How can you quote just ‘he punched me’ and say it is ‘fair ‘and conclude anything from that? Furthermore the exact same term translated as 'struck' was used in another narration when a companion was riding to a battlefield, he felt nervous and told the prophet about it and the prophet pbuh ‘struck’ him in the chest as well. So in this context, it is an act of installing courage and getting rid of doubt. In addition, there is another narration by Aisha r.a that explicitly states that the prophet never ‘hit’ any woman nor a servant EVER*.
FWIW please find below the full narration of the hadith and see whether ‘abusive/wife hitting’ is the theme or some others.

Muhammad b. Qais said (to the people): Should I not narrate to you (a hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my authority and on the authority of my mother? We thought that he meant the mother who had given him birth. He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was 'A'isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you? She said: Whatsoever the people conceal, Allah will know it. He said: Gabriel came to me when you saw me. He called me and he concealed it from you. I responded to his call, but I too concealed it from you (for he did not come to you), as you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep, and I did not like to awaken you, fearing that you may be frightened. He (Gabriel) said: Your Lord has commanded you to go to the inhabitants of Baqi' (to those lying in the graves) and beg pardon for them. I said: Messenger of Allah, how should I pray for them (How should I beg forgiveness for them)? He said: Say, Peace be upon the inhabitants of this city (graveyard) from among the Believers and the Muslims, and may Allah have mercy on those who have gone ahead of us, and those who come later on, and we shall, God willing, join you.


In from another narrations:
Aaishah (Radhiallahu 'Anha) said: "Allaah's Messenger (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallam) never hit anything with his hand ever, except when fighting in the path of Allaah. Nor did he ever hit a servant or a woman." [Recorded by Ibn Maajah. Al-Albaanee graded it Saheeh.]


And to clarify the term 'struck':
Jarir ibn Abdullah Al Bajalî was sent by the Prophet - Allah bless him - on a mission to destroy Dhu Al Kahalasa, the idol-house of Khatham, nicknamed the Yemenite Kaba. Jarr narrates:

"I went along with a hundred and fifty horsemen but I could not sit steadily on horse. I mentioned it to the Messenger of Allah - Allah bless and greet him - who then struck his hand on my chest so hard that I could see the trace of his fingers on it, saying: 'O Allah! Grant him steadfastness and make him a guide of righteousness and a rightly-guided one!' (Bukhari and Muslim)

Edited by RAHIMI, 29 November 2011 - 01:56 AM.

[TonyJ]

By saying uh uh their number is lower because the victims were scared and most crimes did not get reported is your own provocative and conjectures.

No it is not. If there is no crime then there will be no report.

Yes, domestic violence is a problem in just about every society in the planet but to claim higher moral ground , given that nearly a couple of thousand women are killed by their own husband/boyfriend every year in your own country, is ludicrous.

The article that the other poster linked to was about women that were actually put in jail for running away from husbands that abused them. In my country no women get put in jail for running away from abusive husbands. In Afghanistan and Pakistan, some women are so fed up with their treatment at the hand's of their husbands that they burn themselves alive.
afghanistan.blogs.cnn(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2010/11/24/desperate-women-burn-themselves

This is a cry for help and an attempt to get the world to see that they have no alternative, there is clearly no justice for their abusers. This does not happen in my country, if it did then I would recognize that there was a problem and try to do something about it.

Quoting a sentence out of a pageful of narration and that is for the sake of brevity or is it for the convenience of quoting things out of context?

No, it is for the convenience of sorting out information that is relavent to a discussion and removing the parts that are not, that is the difference between quoting and plagiarism. It is very simple to prove that I was not quoting the passage out of context, I will simply post the entire hadith below with the line that I had posted in bold. You can then see for yourself that none of the rest of the hadith is relavent to the discussion:

Muhammad b. Qais said (to the people): Should I not narrate to you (a hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my authority and on the authority of my mother? We thought that he meant the mother who had given him birth. He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was 'A'isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you? She said: Whatsoever the people conceal, Allah will know it. He said: Gabriel came to me when you saw me. He called me and he concealed it from you. I responded to his call, but I too concealed it from you (for he did not come to you), as you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep, and I did not like to awaken you, fearing that you may be frightened. He (Gabriel) said: Your Lord has commanded you to go to the inhabitants of Baqi' (to those lying in the graves) and beg pardon for them. I said: Messenger of Allah, how should I pray for them (How should I beg forgiveness for them)? He said: Say, Peace be upon the inhabitants of this city (graveyard) from among the Believers and the Muslims, and may Allah have mercy on those who have gone ahead of us, and those who come later on, and we shall, God willing, join you.

That is the whole Hadith, now please explain how it was taken out of context? I.e. is there some kind of justification for Muhammad to strike her and cause her pain? I cannot see anything in the Hadith to suggest that Muhammad acted in self defence.

If the rule of the forum is to always post the entire passage of a Hadith then from now on I will do that. But I will think that you will agree that the rest of this particular Hadith is not about violence towards women so is not relavent.

[RAHIMI]

No it is not. If there is no crime then there will be no report.

Do you consider yourself living on different planet or something? Hitting, raping, murdering somebody is a crime in every single country on earth. I can attest to this from my own personal experience. Like I said if you want to state that as a fact, then bring your evidence that the domestic violence, rapes,murders are higher in Muslims majority countries, otherwise that's just you showing your ignorance and prejudice.

The article that the other poster linked to was about women that were actually put in jail for running away from husbands that abused them. In my country no women get put in jail for running away from abusive husbands. In Afghanistan and Pakistan, some women are so fed up with their treatment at the hand's of their husbands that they burn themselves alive.
afghanistan.blogs.cnn(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2010/11/24/desperate-women-burn-themselves
This is a cry for help and an attempt to get the world to see that they have no alternative, there is clearly no justice for their abusers. This does not happen in my country, if it did then I would recognize that there was a problem and try to do something about it.

Frankly I do not bother about such articles much nor I form my opinion based on some one sided and bias writeups. Keep in mind that the statistics and the facts from your own country is that almost 2000 women lost their live at the hand of their husbands every year, some tens of thousands of reported cases of physical abuse by spouses every year, and there's a woman somewhere, in your country, getting raped every two minutes or so. The same with suicide, your country is way up there in term of number of people committing suicide, what difference does it make whether someone burns herself than say jumping off the building or shooting oneself on the head? It's still suicide and your types are by far the biggest number of those who killed themselves.

No, it is for the convenience of sorting out information that is relavent to a discussion and removing the parts that are not, that is the difference between quoting and plagiarism. It is very simple to prove that I was not quoting the passage out of context, I will simply post the entire hadith below with the line that I had posted in bold. You can then see for yourself that none of the rest of the hadith is relavent to the discussion:
That is the whole Hadith, now please explain how it was taken out of context? I.e. is there some kind of justification for Muhammad to strike her and cause her pain? I cannot see anything in the Hadith to suggest that Muhammad acted in self defence.
If the rule of the forum is to always post the entire passage of a Hadith then from now on I will do that. But I will think that you will agree that the rest of this particular Hadith is not about violence towards women so is not relavent.

Irrelevant? I had already explained above, you stated that the prophet pbuh actually beat/hit his wife based on that one sentence. I had already explained that the arabic word struck does not translate to hit or beat with the intention of hurting, but it's more like a coach slapping you on the back as you are running onto the field, otherwise that same word would not have been used when he 'struck' his companion on the chest , nor Aisha r.a herself would herself state that the prophet pbuh had never 'hit' (diffrent Arabic word used for hitting with intent to hurt) her or any other woman.When reading the entire hadith, do you think Aisha r.a was actually talking about her being 'beaten' or narrating her conversations with her husband, with the prophet pbuh showing concern for her and teaching her her religion, ie.how to pray for the dead etc?

Addendum: Here's a reply from another forum to highlight the actual meaning of the word translated as 'struck':
Quote:

"Struck" is a bad translation here. The word used is 'lahaza' , which could be translated as "Push" and at most "slap with an open palm" but not a hard, violent slap (and note translating it as "slap" is weaker and less probable). A correct translation would be:

- He pushed me (lahadani) in the chest (fi sadri) with a push (lahdatan)which made me sore (awja'atni).

It is very interesting to note that "pushing" of the Prophet does indeed convey meaning - usually to drive away evil influence and thought.

- Amir ibn Raba and Sahl ibn Hunayf went out to bathe. Amir took off his woolen robe. He [Sahl] narrates: "I looked at him and I cast the evil eye on him. He went down into the water then I heard a noise coming from him. I called out to him three times but there was no answer. I went to call the Messenger of Allah who came on foot and waded his way in the water. Then he slapped/pushed his chest with his hand, saying: "O Allah! drive away from him its heat and its coolness and its harm." Then he rose up and said: "If one of you sees something that pleases him in his brother - whether in his person or property - let him invoke blessing for him, for the evil eye is a reality."

(Tafsir ibn Kathir)

Similarly, in a narration it states:

- Ubbay said: There occurred in my mind a sort of denial which did not occur even during the Days of Ignorance. When the Messenger of Allah saw how I was affected, he slapped/pushed me on the chest. I broke into a sweat and felt as if I were looking at Allah in fear.

(Sahih Muslim)

Wallahu A'lam

Edited by RAHIMI, 29 November 2011 - 04:49 PM.

[TonyJ]

Do you consider yourself living on different planet or something? Hitting, raping, murdering somebody is a crime in every single country on earth. I can attest to this from my own personal experience.

No I live in the real world. Murdering somebody is a crime in every country as far as I know. But hitting somebody is not a crime in many countries and domestic violence is also not a crime in some countries. In fact a few hundred years ago not a single country on Earth had any laws against domestic violence. I cannot post links on this site yet because I am new here and I think I need 50 posts or something like that. But I did already suggest that you look at the english language wikipedia article entitled "Islam and domestic violence" and I even copy pasted some of it. though not all of it. Which shows that many Islamic countries DO NOT HAVE LAWS against domestic violence, or have only just passed laws in the last few years which are still not enforced. It is one thing to pass a law but quite another to actually enforce it. Passing a law is certainly a step in the right direction and that is a good thing. But the next step is for the government to spend the money to employ new people to oversee these new laws and insure that local authorities are listening to all cases and acting on the new laws.

Like I said if you want to state that as a fact, then bring your evidence that the domestic violence, rapes,murders are higher in Muslims majority countries, otherwise that's just you showing your ignorance and prejudice.

You have not posted any evidence that any of these things are higher in Western countries either. When I have some time I will do some more research on this, and when I reach the 50 posts or whatever the threshold is then I will provide links if i find any.

Frankly I do not bother about such articles much nor I form my opinion based on some one sided and bias writeups.

Can you explain how the article is biased? Are the woman lying? Is the article made up?

Keep in mind that the statistics and the facts from your own country is that almost 2000 women lost their live at the hand of their husbands every year, some tens of thousands of reported cases of physical abuse by spouses every year, and there's a woman somewhere, in your country, getting raped every two minutes or so. The same with suicide, your country is way up there in term of number of people committing suicide, what difference does it make whether someone burns herself than say jumping off the building or shooting oneself on the head? It's still suicide and your types are by far the biggest number of those who killed themselves.

What country are you talking about? 2,000 is a terrible number, noone should be killed by their husbands, but obviously the magnituide of the number depends on the size of the country. If it is a very large country then 2,000 would not be that much. Which of them came from the Muslim community and which came from other communities? Can you provide a source for these stats?

Irrelevant? I had already explained above, you stated that the prophet pbuh actually beat/hit his wife based on that one sentence. I had already explained that the arabic word struck does not translate to hit or beat with the intention of hurting, but it's more like a coach slapping you on the back as you are running onto the field, otherwise that same word would not have been used when he 'struck' his companion on the chest ,

Actually the hadith said that he hit/pushed her AND caused her pain. Are you saying that the word "pain" was mis-translated as well? You are saying that the way Muhammad hits his wife is the same way he hits a strong male warrior who needs courage riding into battle (not just any warrior but a man in charge of a mission of 150 riders)? In my culture you do not hit women period!

But we do not even need to use the Hadiths to see that Muhammad did nothing to prevent domestic violence, in fact he encouraged it by dedicating an actual verse in the Koran to beating wives. (4:34)

Why did he feel the need to include this verse?

[the sad clown]

This really doesn't seem like a question that can be answered, both because it is not always Islam, but often an interpretation of Islam that is being questioned, and secondly, because degradation is always a comparative analysis, and depends on what standard is being applied to the analysis. Without first settling these two questions, much of the discussion will be unwittingly bogged down in miscommunication and talking past one another.

[StopS]

Why are people here talking about statistics, which are estimates when it comes to crimes of domestic violence or sexual battery, i.e. rape?

Islam claims women are equal to men - and then you find many laws and decrees aimed only at women. The same goes for slaves and female slaves in particular.

Entire chapters of the Koran and the Hadiths/Sunnah are dedicated to dealing with the taxation, treatment, sale, and jurisprudence of slaves. In addition to this, numerous Hadith mention slaves, and their relation to their Muslim masters. Here is a selection of Hadith on slaves: [all Hadith are from Sahih Bukhari, unless noted.]

To begin with, the Quran justifies slavery, and often mentions slaves. Here are only some of the many relevant verses:

33:50 - "Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty."
This verse clearly shows that Muslims believe that taking slaves in war was a God-given right. These slaves were considered 'booty' or the spoils of war. As the saying goes: to the victors go the spoils.

23:5 - "... except with their wives and slave girls, for these are lawful to them:..."
The p######age's context here (not quoted in full) details how Muslim males are allowed to have sexual relations with their wives and slave girls. Implicit in this is that Muslim males had slave-concubines.
70:30 is basically a repeat of 23:5.

Ibn Sa'd's "Tabaqat", gives a clear description of Muhammad having "relations" with at least one of his slave girls. Muhammad had sexual relations with Mariyah, his Coptic slave. Mariyah and her sister, Sirin were slaves given as gifts to Muhammad. Muhammad gave Sirin to Hasan Thabit, the poet. Ibn Sa'd says that Muhammad "liked Mariyah, who was of white complexion, with curly hair and pretty." [Taken from Ibn Sa'd's "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir" (Book of the Major Cl######es), p151].

Ibn Sa'd also writes that Mariyah bore Muhammad a son named Ibrahim. He died 18 months later. Sa'd writes: "If he had lived, no maternal uncle of his would have remained in bondage". This shows that there were other Coptic slaves owned by the Muslims.

The Quran also instructs Muslims NOT to force their female slaves into prostitution (24:34), and even allows Muslims to marry slaves if they so desire (4:24), and to free them at times as a penalty for crime or sin (4:92, 5:89, 58:3) and even allows slaves to buy their liberty, if they meet certain of their master's conditions (24:33). [90:10 'freeing of a bondsman' refers to Muslims ransoming other Muslims who were slaves of non-Muslims.]
While I think it's nice to allow a slave to obtain his freedom, (at his master's discretion) it is tragic that Islam allows them to be enslaved in the first place. That's like robbing a bank and giving some of the money back to the bank, and thinking you did the right thing!

The above verses show that taking slaves was ordained by Allah, and that it was permissible for Muslim males to have sex with their female slaves. It also shows that slaves were a valuable commodity to the Muslims; otherwise, Allah would not have imposed the penalty of freeing a slave to make up for a crime.

We see that in Islam female slaves are not categorically or generally prohibited. In non-Muslim countries they are. In Islam, women are tilth and seen as objects (2:223). Women even get organised in clu##, where they “learn” all about being obedient wives to their husbands.

So what we see is that Islam was based on the ethics of the 7th century and it was normal to have male and female slaves, demeaning humans in general.
Then we have special rules for females, which give males su##tantially more rights than a female.

I don't think it's a matter of nerve to say this, but rather information.

[danieldemol]

Why are people here talking about statistics, which are estimates when it comes to crimes of domestic violence or sexual battery, i.e. rape?

According to my understanding, they are not "estimates", but rather the counting of recorded cases. This may mean that they are less than the actual number of crimes, but it certainly does not mean that they could be an over-estimate (I know you didn't say that, but feel that it is worth clarifying anyway).

[danieldemol]

It is rather ironic though, while these people from countries where atheism is prevalent, cries about women right and abuse of women in Islamic societies, the real world statistics shows that, when it comes to abusing and killing women, these countries feature prominently on top. In US for example, almost 2000 women lost their life every year, killed by their husband or boyfriend..

In dictatorships authentic statistcs are rarely collected, the dictator just says something like, "statistics show" or "science says" or whatever then imprisons anyone who dares question it. Show me an Islamic country (if you are even brave enough to label any modern country as "Islamic") where authentic statistics are collected then we'll compare them to the US statistics.

[Wesley]

Athiesm causes people to kill women. Gotcha.

BTW ipods are more prevelent in those countries as well. Did ipods cause people to kill women?

You cannot blame the USA for having the guts to actually compile such data and release it publicly. Let's go see the statistics for violence against women in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. I am sure both keep excellent public records, unless of course there aren't even laws to cover certain violence such as the honor killing.

[StopS]

According to my understanding, they are not "estimates", but rather the counting of recorded cases. This may mean that they are less than the actual number of crimes, but it certainly does not mean that they could be an over-estimate (I know you didn't say that, but feel that it is worth clarifying anyway).

Which is why I said they are estimates.

She notes that the study asked students:

Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn’t want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs?

An affirmative answer was counted as rape. In other words, a women who regretted a one night stand after a night of drinking was considered as having been sexually ######aulted.

According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, there were 102,560 reported rapes or attempted rapes in 1990.[1] The Bureau of Justice Statistics estimates that 130,000 women were victims of rape in 1990.[2] A Harris poll sets the figure at 380,000 rapes or sexual ######aults for 1993.[3] According to a study by the National Victims Center, there were 683,000 completed forcible rapes in 1990.[4] The Justice Department says that 8 percent of all American women will be victims of rape or attempted rape in their lifetime. The radical feminist legal scholar Catharine MacKinnon, however, claims that "by conservative definition [rape] happens to almost half of all women at least once in their lives."[5]

Crime statistics are provided by the police, the courts, government agencies that are involved in law enforcement and the British Crime Surveys. The figures that are released by these different organisations differ greatly with there findings. Crime figures are used within these organisations to calculate their performance in tackling crime; however they are used in political issues and news discussions debating the society we live in. Crime statistics have come into question due to its use in political issues on tackling crime. Sociologist refute the legitimacy of crime figures as they "do not comprise a complete record of those criminal offences known to the authorities" (Sociology in Focus; 2001:461) Crimes that are not collated depends on the discretion of the officer involved but also rules that they follow in this process. Additional in such cases as "fraud" and "child abuse" when the public has no idea that a criminal activity has taken place the crime has not been reported.