19 replies to this topic

[Hydragarum123]

There are probably others who have heard of this theory but I will explain.

Basically this theory states that life originated with clay.

Chemical and Physical analysis of clay has identified it as having unique properties; properties that could very well have been a breeding ground for life.

I believe that this is congruent with Islam and how Allah created life from clay.

I couldn't post a link, but if you google "Clay Theory Origin of Life" you will find results.

[friendly_atheist]

but there is no Allah...

[Absolute truth]

Hello

That's right.

"And indeed We created man (Adam) out of an extract of clay (water and earth)."

(Surat Al-Mu'minun (The Believers): 12)

This is a good article for the subject:

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And you're welcome

[Hydragarum123]

Absolute Truth: The website link you sent me was fantastic. Very reliable info.

I think that as science progresses and new theories are formed based on evidence, that these will confirm what the Quran says.

[friendly_atheist]

You guys still believe in this stuff? in 18:86 "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water". I'm sure no one believes the sun sets in murky water, this is a scientific fail. Yet you try to rationalize this by saying you're supposed to "interpret it" or "read between the lines". So why don't you read between the lines when it talks about science you believe to be true? That's because you don't care about reason or evidence, you like to believe what feels good or makes you feel comfortable.

I suggest going here to find how evidence tells us life began
youtube(dot)com/watch?v=v8nYTJf62sE

More importantly, maybe you should learn how not to believe everything you're told without decent evidence.

[fajr_tear]

“…he found it set in a spring of murky water”:
The Qur’an is obviously describing what Dhul-Qarnain saw. What Dhul-Qarnain saw was the image of the sun setting in a dark body of water. Since the Qur’an is clearly describing this from Dhul-Qarnain’s direct point of view (the Qur’an is quite explicit here in doing that), there is in fact no problem with the description of what Dhul-Qarnain saw. Of course the Critic is right when he says that “the sun does not set in a spring of murky water”, but try standing at a beach during the time when the sun is about to set and the Critic would be able to see the sun “entering” the sea far in the horizon. This therefore gives us the conclusion that Dhul-Qarnain was somewhere west and by a large body of water, possibly the sea.

Therefore, it is clear the verse says that Dhul-Qarnain went west and saw the sun setting over the horizon so that it looked to him as though it was setting into the sea, which is murky-looking. Probably the critic have never stood by on the beach and observe the sun set.

[Hydragarum123]

Friendly Atheist:

Those are your views and you have the right to what you believe.

However, we believe in Islam and in the Quran and Allah.

Many others and myself believe that science is compatible with Islam.

Look up embryology; how the fetus is described as clinging to the womb and how a human life starts from a drop;(the fertilized egg)

Also, many scientists have converted to Islam as well.

I don't appreciate the way that so many atheists are arrogant and any conversation that we have to talk about our religion they have to but in and automatically shove down our throats their dogma.

[fajr_tear]

"Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu’l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness." (Qur’an 18:86; translation by M. M. Pickthall)

"Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: ‘O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit." (Qur’an 18:86; by Shakir)

[friendly_atheist]

...
Look up embryology; how the fetus is described as clinging to the womb and how a human life starts from a drop;(the fertilized egg)
...
I don't appreciate the way that so many atheists are arrogant and any conversation that we have to talk about our religion they have to but in and automatically shove down our throats their dogma.

In case no apostate told you before, it was our curiosity of religion that caused us to disbelieve. The only reason we sound stubborn or arrogant is because when we talk to religious people about religious matters, their logic is comparable to that of a 3 year old child. A little research wouldn't hurt you would it? Your book mentions things that were discovered hundreds of years prior to m0hammad's birth.

But even if i were to argue with you from now to infinity, it still wouldn't change the fact that no matter how hard 1.4 billion people the q0ran contains miraculous science, saudia arabia DID NOT land on the moon, or formulate penicillin, or eradicate polio, or invent the computer or the car or the plane or the train, nor did any muslim country for that matter (and yes, the invention list goes on for a long while). In fact, the annual contribution to scientific publications by the muslim world is minuscule. What's the biggest thing in science or math the muslim arabs contributed? Algebra, the names of the stars (mostly arabic), arabic numeral system, and only a handful of other things. When did they contribute this knowledge? A thousand years ago.

The q0ran is admittedly a well-written book, but it's just one book, out of millions. There's more to life than a bunch of babble written by ancient desert sheep herders. Have you heard of Shakespeare? I heard his morals are more up-to-date.

[fajr_tear]

In case no apostate told you before, it was our curiosity of religion that caused us to disbelieve. The only reason we sound stubborn or arrogant is because when we talk to religious people about religious matters, their logic is comparable to that of a 3 year old child. A little research wouldn't hurt you would it? Your book mentions things that were discovered hundreds of years prior to m0hammad's birth...

You're trying to say religious people are equal to stupid people?

Edited by fajr_tear, 09 May 2011 - 06:14 AM.

[friendly_atheist]

You're trying to say religious people are equal to stupid people?

No. You think I don't know about muslim scholars, academics, scientists, inventors and nobel prize winners? There are smart religious people. When it comes to 95% of things in their lives, religious people think normally. But when it comes to their 'god box', or religion, religious people pretty much drop their brain in the trash bin. Example:

If some stranger comes up to you, in the middle of nowhere, and tells you that he talked to an angel in the middle of the desert who instructed him to take your money, would you comply? No, you wouldn't. So why do you behave differently towards your religion? cuz you were brainwashed when you were a kid.

[fajr_tear]

We do not behave differently towards our religion and obviously you don't know teachings of Islam. Research it.

[Hydragarum123]

friendly atheist:

How is their logic comparable to a 3-year old child?

Actually, The Quran does mention things that were not discovered until recently.

it doesn't make a difference if Saudi Arabia or any other Muslim country didn't land on the moon or invent penicillin, etc. That doesn't say anything about Islam.

You seem to not take into account the fact that the reason why the Muslim world is not very advanced is because of problems such as corruption, inner conflict, etc.

Actually, the Muslim world did alot more advances than just algebra or stars or the numeral system. They made massive advances in fields such as optics, linguistics, agronomy, Chemistry, Trigonometry, Philosophy, Medicine, literature, art, biology, architecture and many others. To deny this is to deny a key aspect of the history of civilization.

like fajr tear stated, research it if you don't believe it.

[friendly_atheist]

friendly atheist:

How is their logic comparable to a 3-year old child?

Actually, The Quran does mention things that were not discovered until recently.
...

Thanks for proving my point.

[friendly_atheist]

...
Actually, the Muslim world did alot more advances than just algebra or stars or the numeral system. They made massive advances in fields such as optics, linguistics, agronomy, Chemistry, Trigonometry, Philosophy, Medicine, literature, art, biology, architecture and many others. To deny this is to deny a key aspect of the history of civilization.
...

Also, I know they did. But philosophies like:

Actually, The Quran does mention things that were not discovered until recently.

didn't help. If the q0ran mentions these things, why didn't any muslim point it out hundreds of years ago? It's more likely that scientists discover things, then you pick out your favourite verse, interpret it in your favourite way, then claim it's a divine miracle. Your thinking is illogical and predictable.

[Younes]

Also, I know they did. But philosophies like:
didn't help. If the q0ran mentions these things, why didn't any muslim point it out hundreds of years ago? It's more likely that scientists discover things, then you pick out your favourite verse, interpret it in your favourite way, then claim it's a divine miracle. Your thinking is illogical and predictable.

Actually, Muslims pointed out these things hundreds of years ago starting with the Prophet, peace and blessings of God be upon him, himself; his Companions, may God be pleased with them; and the later scholars. However, these things became empirically verifiable only in recent times.

[friendly_atheist]

I could respond, but I'd like muslims to answer this question:

Why do you believe the q0ran was inspired by g0d?

Refute this: If moe was in a cave in the desert all by himself where he talked to an 'angel' and received passages, isn't it more likely that he made it up? When moe went into a cave and thought he was being attacked by a demon, isn't it more likely that he hallucinated, especially considering that he was in a hot desert and probably dehydrated? Also consider that the q0ran was written down years after moe received these passages, so isn't it highly likely that the human who wrote it down made some mistakes? I think you people worship a book more than you worship a god...

[Younes]

I could respond, but I'd like muslims to answer this question:

Why do you believe the q0ran was inspired by g0d?

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[Hydragarum123]

friendly atheist:

You call us illogical, but you are actually the one who is being illogical.

You mentioned that just because a man received a message from an angel in a cave, that it would be more likely that he hallucinated.

My response to this is that this is a typical atheistic statement. They enjoy their self-proclaimed rationality and use this self-claim for a leverage against those who have faith.

You also asked as to why we believe in Allah and why we believe in the Quran.

To find this out, anywhere you look in any Islamic material and you will find this reason.

[Younes]

Since we are on the topic of a 3-years-old's logic, I might as well point out a couple flaws in your logic. The first example about the sun setting in a murky water is in fact a prime example of a 3-years-old's logic. Another is bringing up Shakespeare. It is quite obvious that his works are disqualified right from the start. Why? Well, as far as I am aware, he didn't claim his book to be a miracle.