78 replies to this topic

[Benedict]

Here is a link to a video on the Trinity.

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetyoutube(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/watch?v=2KSx6nhUJvo"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetyoutube(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/watch?v=2KSx6nhUJvo[/url]

[Ron Shirt]

In a sense to say "I am God" needs to be taken in context (as does everything, because everything is relative). I see it as a thing probably spoken in a state of religious ecstasy or ardant fervour.

It is a state that one enters into: Lord Krisna in the Bhagvad Gita says "I am your Lord. I am the supreme being". It is a symbolic dicourse that Krisna has with his closest companion Arjuna. Like Rumi and Shamsi Tabriz.
It resembles the relationship between servant and master or Lord and servant.

Essentially it is a statement which says: I AM ONE WITH GOD. THERE IS NO SEPERATION BETWEEN HIM AND ME. It must be quite obvious to an observer that whoever says this is actually not GOD Himself because God would be actually inconceivable in His entirety. As a Muslim would surely say: 'He has His differrent aspects, manifested through the divine names' and therefore no-one can claim to BE GOD at any one time. But this is only in intellectual theory not in a situation where one is preaching - say.

What state must Mohammed have been in when the Koran was passed through him? I havn't ever seen this discussed anywhere - is it taboo? Why should it be - the facts speak for themselves, as it were.

There always appears to be this problem with our conceptualisation of God. And one can undestand why this is, since we must be talking about a being who is omniscient and omnipotent. And actually those are probably the nearest verbs we can get to understanding what exactly HE is. At least to begin with.

Thanks,

Ron

[mrhyder]

In a sense to say "I am God" needs to be taken in context (as does everything, because everything is relative). I see it as a thing probably spoken in a state of religious ecstasy or ardant fervour.

No Prophet of Allah swt would ever claim "I am God"; no matter what the state of their "Religous ecstasy" or ardent fervor.

Its not taboo to discuss what state Prophet Mohammed pbuh was when the revelation was revealed to him. Its written in the hadiths and also written in books about the Prophet pbuh.

[ParadiseLost]

Now before I even adress above do you understand the dual nature of Christ? Not if you believe it but understand it. Islam flat out disregards historical fact about Jesus Christ. So I would not expect it to get Christs dual nature correct.

I was a Christian before I reverted to Islam so yes I do get it but no I don't believe it..Islam has clearer answers for me in relation to this topic.

~Qul huwa Allah hu ahad.~

[Younes]

In a sense to say "I am God" needs to be taken in context (as does everything, because everything is relative). I see it as a thing probably spoken in a state of religious ecstasy or ardant fervour.

Yes, this is possible. Sometimes when a person is extremely happy he can utter something that is completly blasphemous but he wouldn't be considered a blashphemer. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) told a hadith which talks of a man who was in the desert when he lost his camel. The situation became very desperate - obvious because he is in the middle of a rough desert - but then he found his lost camel. He became so happy that he exclaimed out of pure joy, "O Allah, I am your Lord and you are my slave", although he meant to say the opposite obviously.

But for a person to claim publicly that he is God or write about it is pure blasphemy.

Though Prophets (pbut) wouldn't say such things. They are protected from that.

What state must Mohammed have been in when the Koran was passed through him? I havn't ever seen this discussed anywhere - is it taboo? Why should it be - the facts speak for themselves, as it were.

The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) received the Qur'an in the folllowing ways. Sometimes the Angel (pbuh) came to him as a man and spoke to him. Sometimes he saw the Angel (pbuh) in its real form (this happened twice only). Usually the Prophet (pbuh) received the Qur'an in the following manner: he received it like the ringing of a bell - a painful ringing. His companions (ra) relate that on an extremely cold day when the Revelation descended his brow became streaming with sweat, his face became red and after it was over it looked like he was relieved of a burden. One Companion (ra) describes that the Prophet's (pbuh) thigh was once on his thigh when he received revalation and that his thigh became extremely heavy. The Prophet (pbuh) said that this was the hardest way for him. In short, the last manner of receiving revelation was not pleasent but painful.

No, it is not taboo.

[Ron Shirt]

Yes, this is possible. Sometimes when a person is extremely happy he can utter something that is completly blasphemous but he wouldn't be considered a blashphemer. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) told a hadith which talks of a man who was in the desert when he lost his camel. The situation became very desperate - obvious because he is in the middle of a rough desert - but then he found his lost camel. He became so happy that he exclaimed out of pure joy, "O Allah, I am your Lord and you are my slave", although he meant to say the opposite obviously.

But for a person to claim publicly that he is God or write about it is pure blasphemy.

Though Prophets (pbut) wouldn't say such things. They are protected from that.
The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) received the Qur'an in the folllowing ways. Sometimes the Angel (pbuh) came to him as a man and spoke to him. Sometimes he saw the Angel (pbuh) in its real form (this happened twice only). Usually the Prophet (pbuh) received the Qur'an in the following manner: he received it like the ringing of a bell - a painful ringing. His companions (ra) relate that on an extremely cold day when the Revelation descended his brow became streaming with sweat, his face became red and after it was over it looked like he was relieved of a burden. One Companion (ra) describes that the Prophet's (pbuh) thigh was once on his thigh when he received revalation and that his thigh became extremely heavy. The Prophet (pbuh) said that this was the hardest way for him. In short, the last manner of receiving revelation was not pleasent but painful.

No, it is not taboo.

Thanks for your efforts.

But really, this is all just heresay, isn't it? Let's be realistic here. you don't know anymore than I do.

Quite a few people have been tortured and killed over the years for so called 'blasphemy'. By stupid and ignorant people to my mind, of every stupid and ignorant religion.

[Benedict]

I was a Christian before I reverted to Islam so yes I do get it but no I don't believe it..Islam has clearer answers for me in relation to this topic.

~Qul huwa Allah hu ahad.~

Well I guess I'm glad you get it. May God guide you.

peace

[non muslim]

In a sense to say "I am God" needs to be taken in context (as does everything, because everything is relative). I see it as a thing probably spoken in a state of religious ecstasy or ardant fervour.

It is a state that one enters into: Lord Krisna in the Bhagvad Gita says "I am your Lord. I am the supreme being". It is a symbolic dicourse that Krisna has with his closest companion Arjuna. Like Rumi and Shamsi Tabriz.
It resembles the relationship between servant and master or Lord and servant.

Essentially it is a statement which says: I AM ONE WITH GOD. THERE IS NO SEPERATION BETWEEN HIM AND ME. It must be quite obvious to an observer that whoever says this is actually not GOD Himself because God would be actually inconceivable in His entirety. As a Muslim would surely say: 'He has His differrent aspects, manifested through the divine names' and therefore no-one can claim to BE GOD at any one time. But this is only in intellectual theory not in a situation where one is preaching - say.

What state must Mohammed have been in when the Koran was passed through him? I havn't ever seen this discussed anywhere - is it taboo? Why should it be - the facts speak for themselves, as it were.

There always appears to be this problem with our conceptualisation of God. And one can undestand why this is, since we must be talking about a being who is omniscient and omnipotent. And actually those are probably the nearest verbs we can get to understanding what exactly HE is. At least to begin with.

Thanks,

Ron

I believe that sinse we live as part of a greater consciousness, everything, evey atom, every quark, every thought, all energy exists within the consciousness of the Creator. This, to me, explains why we are all God. There is no separation. All is one. Darkness, which manifests itself as evil is a creation of God so It may know Itself.

[Ameer7]

if jesus has dual character then god the father and god the holy spirit gotta have dual character too
since trinitarians/church said these 3 have EXACTLY same character

Ar yu serioso?
When yur God, and yur a-walkin' 'round on duh earth in a human body,
duh ... I guess yu have a dual character, or a dual something.
El ditto-reeneeo, if one of the duh udder 2 did the same.

[Ameer7]

Islam has clearer answers for me in relation to this topic (the Triune Godhead).

Foist of oil ... da Trinity is not part of da gospel of Jesus Christ, i.e. He never preached it to da multitudes.
So, da Trinity is just a super-duper excuse for da peoples to reject Christianity.

Secund of oil ... maye yu jus dont understand ...
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways”, says the Lord.
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways,
and My thoughts (higher) than your thoughts.” (Isaiah 55:8-9)
Duz dis mayk any sens dat dis cud be a problem for youse?

Thurd of all da oils ... you obviously were never born again wit da Holy Spitit IN yu, teachin' yu all tings.

Edited by Ameer7, 26 July 2011 - 10:17 PM.

[ParadiseLost]

Foist of oil ... da Trinity is not part of da gospel of Jesus Christ, i.e. He never preached it to da multitudes.
So, da Trinity is just a super-duper excuse for da peoples to reject Christianity.

Secund of oil ... maye yu jus dont understand ...


Thurd of all da oils ... you obviously were never born again wit da Holy Spitit IN yu, teachin' yu all tings.

Amazing spellings.

Well the trinity is not the reason I reject Christianity and i certainly do not need any excuse to reject Christianity but anyway,,.I have God in my life and I found the answers I wanted in Islam not Christianity. God is one and Jesus was a messenger. No messenger of God would claim to be God. Islam doesn't dance around it , it makes it clear.

Yea maybe I don't understand what you say but as it says in the quran:
Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. [109: 1-6]

[non muslim]

Amazing spellings.

Well the trinity is not the reason I reject Christianity and i certainly do not need any excuse to reject Christianity but anyway,,.I have God in my life and I found the answers I wanted in Islam not Christianity. God is one and Jesus was a messenger. No messenger of God would claim to be God. Islam doesn't dance around it , it makes it clear.

Yea maybe I don't understand what you say but as it says in the quran:
Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. [109: 1-6]

Jesus was trying to teach us about our own power and divinity. He said (I paraphrase)..."These thins that I do(miracles), you shall do even greater things". We are all part of the essense of the Creator. Islam is stuck in another century and Christianity has Jesus' ultimate message wrong. Thankfully, neither religion will be around when we move into the 4th dimension.

[ParadiseLost]

Islam is stuck in another century

Islam is submitting ones will to God. In order to do that it doesn't matter what century you are in.

[Benedict]

[quote]name='non muslim' date='Jul 27 2011, 09:50 AM' post='1242233']
Jesus was trying to teach us about our own power and divinity.[/quote]

There you go thinking you are a god again. You are not.! You like the rest of us are a sinful human being.

[quote]Christianity has Jesus' ultimate message wrong.[/quote]

Why is that? Because you can not do what you want how you want when you want? Give me a break. Go Back and read the whole Bible cover to cover and see what Jesus message IS. See what Jesus taught and what is required of you as His creation.

[Ameer7]

Well the trinity is not the reason I reject Christianity and i certainly do not need any excuse to reject Christianity
but anyway,,.I have God in my life and I found the answers I wanted in Islam not Christianity.
God is one and Jesus was a messenger. No messenger of God would claim to be God.
Islam doesn't dance around it , it makes it clear.
Yea maybe I don't understand what you say ...

Like I sayd, yu nevr wer born again.
Y yu keep talkin' Trinity again?
Try dancin yu mite like it.
If yu hav 1 question, I can due bettr wit my engleesh.

[mrhyder]

Jesus (pbuh) never said "I am God" People bring up duality, trinity, holy ghost and all the confusing theories; but Jesus (pbuh) never explicitly claimed it.

[ParadiseLost]

Jesus (pbuh) never said "I am God" People bring up duality, trinity, holy ghost and all the confusing theories; but Jesus (pbuh) never explicitly claimed it.

Agreed.

[tonnyj]

I believe that sinse we live as part of a greater consciousness, everything, evey atom, every quark, every thought, all energy exists within the consciousness of the Creator. This, to me, explains why we are all God. There is no separation. All is one. Darkness, which manifests itself as evil is a creation of God so It may know Itself.

WE ARE ALL GOD?!! Man it takes over thousands of years to finally discover how men and women are created in embryology and your going to say we are all God? If we are God's, would we be unaware of how we are born from the day of creation? Since the term God - is all knowing - how come now in the 20th century people discover how we are really formed? Shouldn't we - as God's - already know of this wisdom before we're even born? What about the geocentric theory? That man believed (O. Im sorry, according to your view of humans - God), the earth was the center of the solar system, that the sun orbit motionless - [we as God's] - thought this was correct back in the old days? Why should we have to change our stance once we figure out the Sun is the center of the solar system, not the earth; that the sun is in motion in orbit, instead of being motionless? Why did humans change their stance if they are Gods? God's are prone to make mistakes and not know what's really going on? This is your idea of a God?

Foist of oil ... da Trinity is not part of da gospel of Jesus Christ, i.e. He never preached it to da multitudes.
So, da Trinity is just a super-duper excuse for da peoples to reject Christianity.

Secund of oil ... maye yu jus dont understand ...
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways”, says the Lord.
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways,
and My thoughts (higher) than your thoughts.” (Isaiah 55:8-9)
Duz dis mayk any sens dat dis cud be a problem for youse?

Thurd of all da oils ... you obviously were never born again wit da Holy Spitit IN yu, teachin' yu all tings.

What are you speaking? Is that a way of joke? Are you trying to be funny? How am I going to take you seriously when you talk about christianity as a joke?? Maybe your trying to tell us christianity is a joke? not sure... :|

Edited by tonnyj, 30 July 2011 - 06:24 PM.

[Ameer7]

What are you speaking? Is that a way of joke? Are you trying to be funny? How am I going to take you seriously when you talk about christianity as a joke?? Maybe your trying to tell us christianity is a joke? not sure... :|

You said you gave up taking me seriously ... you said you chose to believe the educated guy.
You more or less told me to get lost.
Is it my fault that you don't believe in the gospel (good news) of Jesus Christ?
Forget the Trinity ... focus on the good news. Obviously the Trinity is not good news for anybody.
That's why it was never part of the gospel. Because no one understand this is not my fault.