235 replies to this topic

[ParadiseLost]

US elections are so confusing and long...

[Wanderer]

Well the actual election doesn't take place until November. What we've been witnessing for the past year has been the primary process, which is how the Democratic and Republican parties, which are private organizations, select the candidates that will represent each of them in the general election which starts after each party's national convention, which will be in August this year.

The actual, general election takes place after the candidates have been selected at the respective national conventions for each party. Besides the Republicans and the Democrats, there are also other third parties that hold conventions at various times before the general election season.

The general election itself is rather uncomplicated. Voting itself takes place in November, giving the general election season a length of about 3 months or so. All this primary stuff hasn't been quite this drawn-out in decades, but that's what makes it so interesting for me personally.

Edited by Wanderer, 12 April 2012 - 07:30 PM.

[ParadiseLost]

Well the actual election doesn't take place until November. What we've been witnessing for the past year has been the primary process, which is how the Democratic and Republican parties, which are private organizations, select the candidates that will represent each of them in the general election which starts after each party's national convention, which will be in August this year.

Yeah I meant to say the selection of candidates part,,it's so different compared to the Irish system but then we don't have a presidential system either..

[Wanderer]

Well we don't get the luxury of "votes of no-confidence" here. The two-party system we have right now ensures that we get trampled on every two years, regardless of who's elected, as the two major parties have very few fundamental differences between them.

Edited by Wanderer, 12 April 2012 - 11:03 PM.

[ParadiseLost]

Would you prefer if you had more choice other than a republican/democrat.....i.e more parties in the system?

[Wanderer]

Well there are other parties, it's just that the Democrats and Republicans collude at the state level to keep other parties off the ballot. Many state laws automatically put the Republican and Democratic candidates on the ballot, but if the Libertarian Party, Constitution Party, Reform Party, Green Party, etc. want to get on the ballot, they need to gather thousands of signatures and spend lots of time and money: time and money that would be better spent actually campaigning.

When third parties do get on the ballot, their candidates receive next to no media attention, aren't invited to the debates in the general election, and aren't included in many polls leading up to the vote, severely limiting their exposure to voters. Many Americans also have this habit of "voting for winners" instead of voting their consciences, as if the elections are a sports game and they want to bet on the "winning" team, even if they don't particularly like that team. This attitude makes it extremely difficult for third parties to be taken seriously, even if a really good platform were offered by the third party candidate.

The last time a third party candidate was even invited to the debates was oil tycoon Ross Perot in 1992, and he was only able to get exposure on television by purchasing 30-minute blocks to showcase his ideas with his personal fortune. Over a billion dollars was spent in the 2008 election, and this election might prove even more expensive by the time it's all over.

Edited by Wanderer, 12 April 2012 - 11:45 PM.

[Wanderer]

One of the best speeches yet.

[Nightingale]

I'll be at a meeting of Ron Paul supporters tonight discussing various items as it applies to Virginia. You see, even if he lost the primary here, many of the delegates to the National Convention from the Commonwealth are Ron Paul supporters. And the ones that weren't are being sold on his message.

While Romney might have to some locked up the nomination now, we will continue to push the boundary for the simple sake that as Wanderer mentioned earlier, there is no categorical difference between Obama and Romney really. Both the main parties continue to rattle their sabers and I just genuinely wish we had gotten rid of the control of both major political parties. George Washington warned us back at the beginning to beware political parties.

[Wanderer]

If anything, I think Ron Paul needs to speak at every single state convention he can until Tampa. Surely after that speech at the Texas convention, he must have changed a few minds. Speaking at the Nevada and Minnesota conventions turned out quite well for him, and hopefully it'll help when Texas elects their delegates. According to his wife Carol, he'll be speaking at the Iowa convention next Saturday. California, Montana, and South Dakota would be good ones to speak at.

Apparently someone will challenge the "binding" rules next week. They say federal law may trump any binding, which means every delegate to the national convention would be able to vote their conscience on the first ballot if true. Also the fact that a Utah Romney delegate bound to McCain in 2008 was allowed to cast his vote for Romney might put into question the rules regarding bound delegates.

But I agree that political parties merely wreck everything. Too many people put party over principle, and that attitude perpetuates the mess we're in.

[Ron Shirt]

https://www.facebook.../globalinformer

Does the world really need religion to make it a better place?


ron

[Wanderer]

That was random and off-topic.

[Nightingale]

Those binding rules are ridiculous in all honesty. As for Ron Paul, I'd like to see him drum up more and more support at the conventions, we already have seen what happened in Maine as well. When he speaks, he changes people's minds and he was the only Republican candidate that truly has or had an inclusive message, as well as having the broadest support of any Republican.

There are issues here in Virginia as well, the Obama is not wanting the Democrats to run anyone in districts that are solidly Republican so that he can hopefully keep down Republican turnout. In my own district, there is a nominal Democrat councilperson looking to run, but she isn't exactly getting any major support because she's up against Randy Forbes and his district includes the Naval Base in Hampton Roads/Virginia Beach up to southern Chesterfield county. Forbes has easily won re-election every time so Obama in a political move wants to try and keep Republican-leaning voters home.

My problem I have with Romney and Obama though is that they seem so similar. And I don't see anything changing with either of them. Plus, both of them change their positions often enough. Ron Paul has been extremely consistent in his stances, and when he has changed anything it is because his constituents petitioned him and he learned about it. That's what you ask of them. And has been mentioned so many times...the military supports Ron Paul because he will finally bring them home. I have family in the military and they just want to focus on the US right now, not on being in the Middle East and being in Germany and being in Japan and being in...well you get the point.

[Ron Shirt]

That was random and off-topic.

I'm so sorry for interupting your little world. I rather think my post was more ON topic than yours. What does american politics have to do with an Islamic forum? Apart from those policies whcih might peripherally impinge upon the Muslim world perhaps.?

ron

[ParadiseLost]

I'm so sorry for interupting your little world. I rather think my post was more ON topic than yours. What does american politics have to do with an Islamic forum? Apart from those policies whcih might peripherally impinge upon the Muslim world perhaps.?

ron

This section is titled political front - Ron you need to learn to start posting in the relevant sections as you were told before.

[Ron Shirt]

Yes, I'm sorry, I should have started a new post. But even that I thought would have sounded equally rude,
It was just that I was so impressed with the images I'd discovered - I thought they were definately political.

I must say, however that I havn't been clear about what Politics is being referred to here. Any politics anywhere?

Anyway, again, my apologies.

Ron

[Wanderer]

For as long as I've been here, the politics section was just that: a section to start threads on anything political. I would venture a guess that because the political subforum is in the "General" section of Gawaher, the threads started in it have to do with Islam as much as the "Just for Fun" subforum (which is also under the General section) does.

I just didn't see the connection a Facebook group had to the immediate topic for this thread, which is the 2012 U.S. elections. Granted, I didn't really peruse the content of the group, so perhaps it had something to do with American politics. If there is, I apologize.

Edited by Wanderer, 09 June 2012 - 08:18 AM.

[Ron Shirt]

No, I'm sorry to say it didn't have anything directly to do with the thread. But there were an amazing number of images (if you clicked on the first picture and then proceded from there) which made me think 'why do we need politics or religion in the world anyway?' We only need common sense!

regards,

ron

Edited by Ron Shirt, 09 June 2012 - 11:10 AM.

[Nightingale]

Well, Ron Paul hasn't conceded and won't officially concede the nomination at this point. I also don't expect him to endorse Romney at any point really, though Rand did (there are several reasons he did so, not the least of which because he said he would).

However, as Ron Paul said the other day, this Revolution is bigger than one person. The goal is to change the Republican party, and seriously it is already starting to happen at the state level. I know of about 6 states right now (and I'm pretty sure there are others) where the state conventions and state leadership are filled with people that support Ron Paul and his message. That's the real agenda as far as it goes. To take back the Republican party from the ultra-religious groups and return it to libertarian limited government roots.

[SaracenSoldier]

Romney booed at civil rights group meeting

http://www.aljazeera...4541100306.html

[Aligarr]

Unfortunately , The American People will have to choose in November , between two liars . And Ron Paul is no different , in addition Paul is a hypocrite ,who criticizes Social Security , but collects benefits from it .