42 replies to this topic

[RAHIMI]

apparently you are not understanding of the lack of money down here. I dont have a webcam

Go to your nearest internet cafe, they have plenty of webcam there (only about 5 bucks a piece), just tell them you are going to drink weedkiller live on the net to prove that you are a true believer, they would set you up, no problem. Tell them you need plenty of audience, the more the better so that they can be a believer too, just like you.

Next drinking it deliberately to test the Lord my God would be in contradiction to the teachings of Jesus now wouldn't it?
"thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God" Matthew 4:6

No no no, don't bother about other verses now, we are talking about these clear verses:
Mark 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."

If you claim that you are a true believer, then all those signs should accompany you..that is your god telling you in the Bible, not me...

Edited by RAHIMI, 25 November 2011 - 07:47 AM.

[sickle]

a) again not understanding this area. Honestly I have never seen an internet cafe in my life, I hear they have lots of them up north though

b) and "thou shalt not tempt the lord thy God" is a clear verse, I am not going to anger Yawheh for you

c) you still have not addressed any of the questions originally asked in the first post despite the fact that I have been answering yours, it seems to me that you are only interested in trying to antagonize instead of actually answering anything and as such I think I am done replying to anything you post

[sickle]

Also in Exodus chapter 34 verse 14 ( the first of the 10 commandments ) reads:

Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

any other god? If God is the only god ( and as I am to understand it there are no capital and lower case letters in aramaic languages ) then why even mention other god? Clearly here God ( Yawhew ) is indicating that there are in fact other gods but that it is he alone that we are to worship.

[the sad clown]

This thread has also severely deteriorated into insults and other violations of forum rules. Any further posts in this thread that continue this behavior will be reported.

[RAHIMI]

Also in Exodus chapter 34 verse 14 ( the first of the 10 commandments ) reads:
Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.
any other god? If God is the only god ( and as I am to understand it there are no capital and lower case letters in aramaic languages ) then why even mention other god? Clearly here God ( Yawhew ) is indicating that there are in fact other gods but that it is he alone that we are to worship.

What is your definition of a god? a god is something that people worship, put their trust in put their faith in etc etc..For example there are a lot of people put their faith and trust in money, because their believe having more money would make everything all right. Some people put their trust and faith in science and themselves, because they believe science and humans can explain everything. In a sense all these things, money, science, self,another human or a set of humans, rocks, stones etc are indeed gods since these things are 'worshiped' by people, people put their trust in them. So there are other 'gods' but none of them are worthy to be worshiped except Allah. So it appear that we reached the same conclusion and a Muslim would not have a problem with the 'He alone we worship'.

a) again not understanding this area. Honestly I have never seen an internet cafe in my life, I hear they have lots of them up north though
b) and "thou shalt not tempt the lord thy God" is a clear verse, I am not going to anger Yawheh for you
c) you still have not addressed any of the questions originally asked in the first post despite the fact that I have been answering yours, it seems to me that you are only interested in trying to antagonize instead of actually answering anything and as such I think I am done replying to anything you post

They say the proof is in the pudding, the above are just excuses not reason and deep down you know that...
If your god says a believer can drink poison then why in the world drinking poison can be taken as to 'tempt the lord'? And you know full well that the Bible clearly sates in another clear verse that 'god cannot be tempted'. It does not make sense, either you are taking these verses out of context or all these drinking poison, holding serpents, tongue talks etc are just another clear cut case of 'alterations and corruptions' of the scriptures along with numerous others.

This thread has also severely deteriorated into insults and other violations of forum rules. Any further posts in this thread that continue this behavior will be reported.

I see one of my posts was reported..As moderator I would presume you have the ability to edit the offensive statement(?) But I don't see how quoting a clear cut verse from a scripture and ask for demonstration of truth can be offensive.

[sickle]

What is your definition of a god? a god is something that people worship, put their trust in put their faith in etc etc..For example there are a lot of people put their faith and trust in money, because their believe having more money would make everything all right. Some people put their trust and faith in science and themselves, because they believe science and humans can explain everything. In a sense all these things, money, science, self,another human or a set of humans, rocks, stones etc are indeed gods since these things are 'worshiped' by people, people put their trust in them. So there are other 'gods' but none of them are worthy to be worshiped except Allah. So it appear that we reached the same conclusion and a Muslim would not have a problem with the 'He alone we worship'.

This is the most reasonable response I have heard from you. It is a very good answer although ( and if I am mistaken by all means correct me ) does not the shahada state, "I testify that there is no god but Allah and I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah"?

note: if you continue to respond as you did in the above quoted mean then I will respond

[RAHIMI]

This is the most reasonable response I have heard from you. It is a very good answer although ( and if I am mistaken by all means correct me ) does not the shahada state, "I testify that there is no god but Allah and I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah"?
note: if you continue to respond as you did in the above quoted mean then I will respond

And that is why sometimes direct translations do not always work. The sahadah can be further expanded/clarified in meaning, eg
" none has the right to be worshipped but Allah",
"No deity is worthy of worship but Allah"
To take it in the way that you put it, then all the people would worship God alone but the fact is, people 'worships' other thing/people as wel,l and those things are their gods.

Edited by RAHIMI, 26 November 2011 - 12:32 AM.

[the sad clown]

I see one of my posts was reported..As moderator I would presume you have the ability to edit the offensive statement(?) But I don't see how quoting a clear cut verse from a scripture and ask for demonstration of truth can be offensive.

You did not quote a scripture in the post I reported. You did insult a fellow forum member. If you believe otherwise, you are free to appeal the decision to the administration. I do not claim infallibility. I merely strive to uphold the rules and spirit of this forum in my own imperfect way. Also, please know that this is not the place to be having this discussion. There is a PM system available, and you can always appeal to another Guardian or Administrator if you do not trust me in the matter.

[RAHIMI]

You did not quote a scripture in the post I reported. You did insult a fellow forum member. If you believe otherwise, you are free to appeal the decision to the administration. I do not claim infallibility. I merely strive to uphold the rules and spirit of this forum in my own imperfect way. Also, please know that this is not the place to be having this discussion. There is a PM system available, and you can always appeal to another Guardian or Administrator if you do not trust me in the matter.

OK, reread my post, it seems the board appointed you as a moderator for a reason and I won't hold that against you. I plead guilty and congratulation to you for the job well done.

[aj4u]

<a href="you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetbiblegateway(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/passage/?search=matthew%204&version=NIV" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Online Bible that you might follow along</a>

Matthew 4:1-11 1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.”

7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

Take a close look at verse 6 where Satan says, if you are truly the son of God. Note that he did not say a son of God.

What was the words that Jesus was quoting though?

In the first when Jesus says it is written.... he is quoting Deuteronomy 8:3

Deuteronomy 8:3
He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.

In the second temptation Satan tries to use the Bible himself! For it is written: he will commands his angels concerning you... He is quoting psalm 91:11-12

Psalm 91:11-12
For he will command his angels concerning you
to guard you in all your ways;
they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

what does this verse say in context though?

Psalm 91:9-16
9 If you say, “The LORD is my refuge,”
and you make the Most High your dwelling,
10 no harm will overtake you,
no disaster will come near your tent.
11 For he will command his angels concerning you
to guard you in all your ways;
12 they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.
13 You will tread on the lion and the cobra;
you will trample the great lion and the serpent.

14 “Because he loves me,” says the LORD, “I will rescue him;
I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.
15 He will call on me, and I will answer him;
I will be with him in trouble,
I will deliver him and honor him.
16 With long life I will satisfy him
and show him my salvation.”

What was very interesting was the words of Jesus in his reply to Satan's use of scripture. "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test'" Who is Satan testing BUT Jesus? Seems to me that Jesus is blatantly referring to himself as God here. And where did he get his reply from? Deuteronomy 6:16

Deuteronomy 6:16
Do not put the LORD your God to the test as you did at Massah.

What does this refer to? Exodus 17:7

Exodus 17:1-7
1 The whole israelite community set out from the Desert of Sin, traveling from place to place as the LORD commanded. They camped at Rephidim, but there was no water for the people to drink. 2 So they quarreled with Moses and said, “Give us water to drink.”

Moses replied, “Why do you quarrel with me? Why do you put the LORD to the test?”

3 But the people were thirsty for water there, and they grumbled against Moses. They said, “Why did you bring us up out of Egypt to make us and our children and livestock die of thirst?”

4 Then Moses cried out to the LORD, “What am I to do with these people? They are almost ready to stone me.”

5 The LORD answered Moses, “Go out in front of the people. Take with you some of the elders of israel and take in your hand the staff with which you struck the Nile, and go. 6 I will stand there before you by the rock at Horeb. Strike the rock, and water will come out of it for the people to drink.” So Moses did this in the sight of the elders of israel. 7 And he called the place Massah and Meribah because the israelites quarreled and because they tested the LORD saying, “Is the LORD among us or not?”
Again Satan tries to tempt Jesus this time by saying that he will give him all the kingdoms of the world if he will but bow down and worship him ( Satan wants to be worshiped ). Again Jesus replies with scripture. Deuteronomy 6:13

Deuteronomy 6:13-16
13 Fear the LORD your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name. 14 Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you; 15 for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land. 16 Do not put the LORD your God to the test as you did at Massah.

do not follow other gods? hmmm... so God himself never claimed to be the only God?

Blessed is the word of God

This is a good point God said "do not follow other gods." Even during pre Islamic history there were some 360 deities. Muhammad singled out Allah saying he is the only God, It is true that people can make gods of other people, money or other things, but God saying there are other gods and not to go after them is significant. Since you use to be Muslim, have you ever heard that Allah was once one of the 360 deities who took over for Hubal the moon god? do you know if it is true that the crescent moon plays a part in this? Any Muslim or ex Muslim can answer this please!

[sickle]

While I did look into Islam and I did take a shahada & in fact even saw two people from masjid today I was still relatively new to everything and did not even know how to say the proper words for salat although I had learned how to perform Wudhu. In fact I had just received a transliteration of the Surah Al-Fatiha ( an essential part of every properly done salat ) the same night that I eventually went back to Christianity.

However, I will say that I have heard arguments for & against this.

[Abu Firdaws]

While I did look into Islam and I did take a shahada & in fact even saw two people from masjid today I was still relatively new to everything and did not even know how to say the proper words for salat although I had learned how to perform Wudhu. In fact I had just received a transliteration of the Surah Al-Fatiha ( an essential part of every properly done salat ) the same night that I eventually went back to Christianity.

However, I will say that I have heard arguments for & against this.

Well, you converted to Islaam on complete and utter ignorance, which tells us a lot about you and how you make your decisions. I don't know of anyone who was a Christian throughout their life that sought the truth and decided to leave their religion the very next day... only to go back to it. It gives the impression that you aren't sincere in seeking the truth and you don't look into things, rather you watch something on YouTube, or read something on an Islamic/anti-Islamic website and base your decisions on that. This is why I say: If you want to know what Islaam is about, then read the Qur'an. And I hope you don't take what I said the wrong way, it's merely the impression you have given whilst being on this forum.

[Abu Firdaws]

This is a good point God said "do not follow other gods." Even during pre Islamic history there were some 360 deities. Muhammad singled out Allah saying he is the only God, It is true that people can make gods of other people, money or other things, but God saying there are other gods and not to go after them is significant. Since you use to be Muslim, have you ever heard that Allah was once one of the 360 deities who took over for Hubal the moon god? do you know if it is true that the crescent moon plays a part in this? Any Muslim or ex Muslim can answer this please!

This is a lie, and you are a liar. And sickle was never a Muslim, and even if he was a Muslim for a day or two why would you ask him anything? As if he knows anything about Islaam.

[Teckni]

This is a good point God said "do not follow other gods." Even during pre Islamic history there were some 360 deities. Muhammad singled out Allah saying he is the only God, It is true that people can make gods of other people, money or other things, but God saying there are other gods and not to go after them is significant. Since you use to be Muslim, have you ever heard that Allah was once one of the 360 deities who took over for Hubal the moon god? do you know if it is true that the crescent moon plays a part in this? Any Muslim or ex Muslim can answer this please!

Don't go presenting lies as if they're are facts.

How can Allah be the moon God when he denounces to pray to the moon?


"And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down (prostrate) to the sun nor to the moon, but only bow down (prostrate) to "Allah" Who created them, if you (really) worship Him." [Noble Quran 41:37]

[Teckni]

This is a good point God said "do not follow other gods." Even during pre Islamic history there were some 360 deities. Muhammad singled out Allah saying he is the only God, It is true that people can make gods of other people, money or other things, but God saying there are other gods and not to go after them is significant. Since you use to be Muslim, have you ever heard that Allah was once one of the 360 deities who took over for Hubal the moon god? do you know if it is true that the crescent moon plays a part in this? Any Muslim or ex Muslim can answer this please!

Don't go presenting lies as if they're are facts.

How can Allah be the moon God when he denounces to pray to the moon? Why would he say he created the moon?

"And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down (prostrate) to the sun nor to the moon, but only bow down (prostrate) to "Allah" Who created them, if you (really) worship Him." [Noble Quran 41:37]

Edited by Teckni, 26 November 2011 - 11:26 PM.

[BurningLight]

This is a strange thread; people calling people liars and denying someone's testimony. I wouldn't deny someone's experience and testimony; only our Creator can do that!

[Abu Firdaws]

This is a strange thread; people calling people liars and denying someone's testimony. I wouldn't deny someone's experience and testimony; only our Creator can do that!

There are individuals who join the forum with the intention of misleading people (there are quite a few on the forum now). They may claim to be Christians, non-Christians, confused, whatever... all of a sudden, they become Muslim! And just as fast as they became Muslims, they become non-Muslims and then attack Islaam. This is intentional, some even have multiple accounts and make use of a proxy, and we are aware of this even though they might not know it -- and it makes Christians look increasingly bad in our eyes, might I add. I'm sorry to say this but those who call themselves Christians are known to do this sort of thing, it's all over YouTube and it's so clear to the Muslims that they are lying that we can't help but laugh.

[Catholic Christian]

...
No no no, don't bother about other verses now, we are talking about these clear verses:
Mark 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."

If you claim that you are a true believer, then all those signs should accompany you..that is your god telling you in the Bible, not me...

That is called temptation, that is not even done to our very own earthly parents. God doesn´t owe us anything, we need to let Him be God, asking him If He Wants.

[the sad clown]

That is called temptation, that is not even done to our very own earthly parents. God doesn´t owe us anything, we need to let Him be God, asking him If He Wants.

And yet even if Christians aren't looking to tempt God, and are just accidentally bit by a snake or drink deadly poison, they are still hurt if not worse. And how many sick people have died after Christians have laid hands on them?

[Catholic Christian]

And yet even if Christians aren't looking to tempt God, and are just accidentally bit by a snake or drink deadly poison, they are still hurt if not worse. And how many sick people have died after Christians have laid hands on them?

the sad clown, but that statement confirms my initial post:

Let God be God, laying our hands on someone else doesn´t guarantee it´s salvation (from anything, snake bite, etc etc). What needs to be understood is that we put our life in God´s hand, it is to his knowledge what is best for us. To begin our eternal destiny is not on earth, so staying here is not going to do us any good, rather if we do heal, then it is for a reason: let it be testimony for the rest.