22 replies to this topic

[ParadiseLost]

Don't know if this is the right forum but is scientific!

What does everyone think about the discovery of 2 new planets outside our solar system? I think it shows how much we don't know about the universe and that science is still discovering new things all the time - makes me feel so small thinking about how big the universe is also!

[AHMAD_73]

alsalmo alykom,

then, how many planets we have now in our solar system?

[odyssean]

alsalmo alykom,

then, how many planets we have now in our solar system?

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I took Lost In Paradise's comment to refer to the two Earth-like planets discovered outside our solar system. I believe we now have 8 planets in our own solar system (since Pluto got downgraded).

[Wesley]

I wonder if anyone believes in the possibility of intelligent extraterrestrial life.

If it existed, could they have religion? and if so, could they be Muslim?

[Wesley]

The following 2 paragraphs from the Baha'i Writings is why I ask, it is really an intriguing concept for me and something I imagine others from other religions have difficulty imagining. I would love to know other opinions.

As to thy question whether the physical world is subject to any limitations, know thou that the comprehension of this matter dependeth upon the observer himself. In one sense, it is limited; in another, it is exalted beyond all limitations. The one true God hath everlastingly existed, and will everlastingly continue to exist. His creation, likewise, hath had no beginning, and will have no end. All that is created, however, is preceded by a cause. This fact, in itself, establisheth, beyond the shadow of a doubt, the unity of the Creator.

Thou hast, moreover, asked Me concerning the nature of the celestial spheres. To comprehend their nature, it would be necessary to inquire into the meaning of the allusions that have been made in the Books of old to the celestial spheres and the heavens, and to discover the character of their relationship to this physical world, and the influence which they exert upon it. Every heart is filled with wonder at so bewildering a theme, and every mind is perplexed by its mystery. God, alone, can fathom its import. The learned men, that have fixed at several thousand years the life of this earth, have failed, throughout the long period of their observation, to consider either the number or the age of the other planets. Consider, moreover, the manifold divergencies that have resulted from the theories propounded by these men. Know thou that every fixed star hath its own planets, and every planet its own creatures, whose number no man can compute.

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 162)

[odyssean]

I wonder if anyone believes in the possibility of intelligent extraterrestrial life.

If it existed, could they have religion? and if so, could they be Muslim?

Yes, I believe in the possibility of extraterrestrial life. And I also believe it could be intelligent -- but that word, intelligent covers an awful lot of ground. I am less certain that what we consider intelligence would apply to them, and vice versa. As such, I am skeptical about them having "religion" in any manner that we would recognize as such.

[Wesley]

How about these three definitions for intelligence? Can frame the answers according to any of these definitions, which still has a broad scope. Remember, this isn't comparative intelligence, just intelligence. Each definition came from the "Free Dictionary" at you are not allowed to post links yetthefreedictionary(contact admin if its a beneficial link)

1) (Psychology) the capacity for understanding; ability to perceive and comprehend meaning
2) The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge.
3) The faculty of thought and reason.

[ParadiseLost]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I took Lost In Paradise's comment to refer to the two Earth-like planets discovered outside our solar system. I believe we now have 8 planets in our own solar system (since Pluto got downgraded).

Yes I am talking about those..I think we have 10 in our solar system now though? 2 news ones plus the 8 ones we knew before

[ParadiseLost]

I wonder if anyone believes in the possibility of intelligent extraterrestrial life.

If it existed, could they have religion? and if so, could they be Muslim?

That is a good question Wesley, the universe is so big I don't know if we will find this answer ever. I don't know the Islamic standpoint on life outside earth but it is something I would like to look into.

And (He has created) horses, mules and donkeys, for you to ride and as an adornment. And He creates (other) things of which you have no knowledge. (16:8) Whether these things Allah has created that we have no knowledge of is referring to outside earth I am not sure..but I do believe there are many things on earth we still don't know about..there are so many discoveries all the time of new plants and species etc.

I think its a topic not much looked into in Islamic studies because it is not something we need to know since we have lived fine for years without knowing.

Edited by Lost_In_Paradise, 23 December 2011 - 07:40 PM.

[the sad clown]

Yes I am talking about those..I think we have 10 in our solar system now though? 2 news ones plus the 8 ones we knew before

I think it is still only 8 in our solar system. The other two circle a different star.

[ParadiseLost]

I think it is still only 8 in our solar system. The other two circle a different star.

oh i see thanks for clarification - because I was wondering they said it was too hot for life yet they are so far away from the sun! Now it makes sense

[Wesley]

oh i see thanks for clarification - because I was wondering they said it was too hot for life yet they are so far away from the sun! Now it makes sense

I was possibly considering an emotional disorder for the new planets.

[mrhyder]

That is a good question Wesley, the universe is so big I don't know if we will find this answer ever. I don't know the Islamic standpoint on life outside earth but it is something I would like to look into.

And (He has created) horses, mules and donkeys, for you to ride and as an adornment. And He creates (other) things of which you have no knowledge. (16:8) Whether these things Allah has created that we have no knowledge of is referring to outside earth I am not sure..but I do believe there are many things on earth we still don't know about..there are so many discoveries all the time of new plants and species etc.

I think its a topic not much looked into in Islamic studies because it is not something we need to know since we have lived fine for years without knowing.

I believe these verses can also be used to support that their is life outside earth.

42:29 And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the living creatures that He has scattered through them: and He has power to gather them together when He wills.

65:12 Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.

Seven not only means 7 earths, but it is also used as a slang for many.

Salaam.

[the sad clown]

Seven not only means 7 earths, but it is also used as a slang for many.

How do you know when to interpret it as seven and when it means many? Is there some indication in the context of the passage that informs you of which way to understand this?

[odyssean]

How about these three definitions for intelligence? Can frame the answers according to any of these definitions, which still has a broad scope. Remember, this isn't comparative intelligence, just intelligence. Each definition came from the "Free Dictionary" at ######thefreedictionary(contact admin if its a beneficial link)

1) (Psychology) the capacity for understanding; ability to perceive and comprehend meaning
2) The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge.
3) The faculty of thought and reason.

By those three definitions, yes, I think there could be intelligent life out there in the rest of the universe. But, also by those definitions, a dog should be considered intelligent. So long as we're prepared to have first contact with alien life that has the cognitive capacity of an animal (or a truly "alien" approach to thought), then, yes, I feel there is "intelligent" life elsewhere.

[mrhyder]

How do you know when to interpret it as seven and when it means many? Is there some indication in the context of the passage that informs you of which way to understand this?

I looked to the commentary. There's no indication in the passage. Regarding the number 7; the commentary said "In Arabic literary style, seven (sab‘a) often denotes ‘several’ or ‘many’ (Tāj al ‘Arus; Lisān al-‘Arab), just as seventy or seven hundred often means many more or countless "

Edited by mrhyder, 24 December 2011 - 05:29 PM.

[the sad clown]

I looked to the commentary. There's no indication in the passage. Regarding the number 7; the commentary said "In Arabic literary style, seven (sab‘a) often denotes ‘several’ or ‘many’ (Tāj al ‘Arus; Lisān al-‘Arab), just as seventy or seven hundred often means many more or countless "

I am aware of the symbolic use of the number seven. What I am wondering is how you know when to use the symbolic meaning of seven and when to understand it as the actual number seven.

[mrhyder]

I am aware of the symbolic use of the number seven. What I am wondering is how you know when to use the symbolic meaning of seven and when to understand it as the actual number seven.

I know because I use the interpretation the scholars have given. And they get their interpretation through the tafsirs and the hadiths.

[the sad clown]

I know because I use the interpretation the scholars have given. And they get their interpretation through the tafsirs and the hadiths.

I see, so there are hadiths that clarify that seven in this verse is figurative and not literal. Do you know which hadith is the one referring to this verse? I know there are many hadiths, and you may not know them all, but I thought I would ask and at least see if you were aware of which one is helping with the interpretation of this passge.

[mrhyder]

I see, so there are hadiths that clarify that seven in this verse is figurative and not literal. Do you know which hadith is the one referring to this verse? I know there are many hadiths, and you may not know them all, but I thought I would ask and at least see if you were aware of which one is helping with the interpretation of this passge.

I do not think there's a hadith which clarifies that. I'll look for it and if I find it, I will share it with you.