56 replies to this topic

[Wesley]

If you did some effort to find the truth, and chose to be a Moslem that will be great, and you will be rewarded generously for that. all of your past sins will be forgiven and if you felt sorrow about it and repented, it will be changed to be good deeds by the favor of Allah.

To be born as a Moslem is a great favor from Allah too.

I've never accepted the idea that one is born as any religion. Is there anything in the Qur'an that says any person is created as a Muslim? Or is this a human-created tradition?

[ParadiseLost]

And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adam's loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord?" They said: "Yes! We testify," lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: "Verily, we have been unaware of this." Or lest you should say: "It was only our fathers afortime who took others as partners in worship along with Allah, and we were (merely their) descendants after them; will You then destroy us because of the deeds of men who practised Al-Batil (i.e. polytheism and committing crimes and sins, invoking and worshipping others besides Allah)?"[Surah 7: 172-173]




Narrated Abu- Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "No child is born except on Al-fitra (Islam) and then his parents make him Jewish, Christian or Magian, as an animal produces a perfect young animal: do you see any part of its body amputated?" Then he rec 'The religion of pure Islamic Faith (Hanifa),(i.e. to worship none but Allah), The pure Allah's Islamic nature with which He (Allah) has created mankind. Let There be no change in Allah's religion (i.e. to join none in Allah's worship). That is the straight religion; but most of men know not..." (30.30) (Sahih Bukhari, Book 60, Hadith 298)

[the sad clown]

That would seem to indicate that Islam believes everyone starts out in a state of belief, and cannot excuse themselves by saying that they were raised differently.

[dot]

everyone starts out in a state of belief

Not just belief. Its rather: everyone starts out in a state of submission to the one who created them. And since Islam means submission to the creator, this is how we start out, naturally Muslims, before any intervention.

[AHMAD_73]

That would seem to indicate that Islam believes everyone starts out in a state of belief, and cannot excuse themselves by saying that they were raised differently.

no, in fact the general principle here is:
" 017.015 Y: Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to his own loss: No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent an messenger (to give warning).

Allah will send to every body a messenger or messengers of messenger or any kind of proof, and then the person will decide to accept or reject.

in the hadeeth " the pen (sins' recording) is raised up about three, the sleeping tell he get up, the kid tell he became an adult (íÈáÛ) and the mad tell he cured"

Allah knows best,

[Scotia]

What proof did he send you?

[Catholic Christian]

This gives a different explaination:

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"https://plus.google"]https://plus.google[/url]. com/photos/115972594232309078580/albums/posts

Don´t forget to REMOVE the SPACE between google. and COM

[AHMAD_73]

What proof did he send you?

hello, brother,

for me personally, i can find Islam as simple, direct, rational, comprehensive, flexable, proven, ...
persnally when ever i became a better Moslem i feel more relaxed and confartable and vise versa...
it gives me a logic explanation about almost every thing...

Why Islam is the truth
for more easiness, I may categorize it into 11 main branches:

1. The Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran
2. The Great Challenge to Produce One Chapter, Like the Chapters of the Holy Quran
3. Challenges about creation,
4. The challenge to get any contradictions or wrong information in the Quran
5. Biblical Prophecies on the Advent of Muhammad the Prophet of Islam
6. The Verses in the Quran That Mention Future Events Which Later Came to Pass
7. Miracles Performed by the Prophet Muhammad
8. The great personality and Simple Life of Muhammad
9. The Phenomenal steady and stable Growth of Islam
10. The truth is what the non-Moslems witnessed for
11. Islamic teachings (wisdom, mercy, ..... )

Briefly, you will find 7 of these are breiffly mentioned in this small pamphlet about Islam: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetIslam-guide(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetIslam-guide(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/[/url]

it's a small, easy brochure. if you like to have a look at it and then we may have furture discussions.

Edited by AHMAD_73, 25 December 2011 - 07:14 PM.

[Catholic Christian]

Ahmad_73
I feel the same way about Catholicism.

God bless.

[Catholic Christian]

What do you think or say about the picture I posted above?

[AHMAD_73]

Ahmad_73
I feel the same way about Catholicism.
God bless.

hi,
ok then, we may need to do some comparisons,
i may chose the "concept of god"
if you like to chose any other subject, that will be great too

What do you think or say about the picture I posted above?

i'll do inshaa Allah
while it would be better if you relate it to the original post, and give a quick hint about,

have a nice day/night

[Catholic Christian]

Ahmad_73 lost_in_paradise quoted Surah 7: 172-173 and have his understanding of it, but the quram that I have explained different. That is what am asking you "what do you think about that explanation compared top the one lost in paradise said.

About me feeling the same about Catholicism, you start, I have little to none knowledge about Islam.

[Redeem]

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: No child is born but upon Fitrah. It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist. [Muslim]

Fitrah is the natural inclination a being has toward obeying and submitting to Allah. All of us are born with it; we are created with the inclination to submit to Allah (Islam). That is what is meant by "everyone is born a Muslim".

Salam.

[the sad clown]

Not just belief. Its rather: everyone starts out in a state of submission to the one who created them. And since Islam means submission to the creator, this is how we start out, naturally Muslims, before any intervention.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: No child is born but upon Fitrah. It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist. [Muslim]

Fitrah is the natural inclination a being has toward obeying and submitting to Allah. All of us are born with it; we are created with the inclination to submit to Allah (Islam). That is what is meant by "everyone is born a Muslim".

Thanks to both of your for that correction. I should have realized it was submission and not belief since that is the root of the name Muslim.

[Catholic Christian]

Not just belief. Its rather: everyone starts out in a state of submission to the one who created them. And since Islam means submission to the creator, this is how we start out, naturally Muslims, before any intervention.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: No child is born but upon Fitrah. It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist. [Muslim]

Fitrah is the natural inclination a being has toward obeying and submitting to Allah. All of us are born with it; we are created with the inclination to submit to Allah (Islam). That is what is meant by "everyone is born a Muslim".

Salam.

"It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist."
Or Islamist.

[the sad clown]

"It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist."
Or Islamist.

Not according to Islam. In the Muslims case, the parents would only be assisting the child in continuing their original state of submission to God.

[Catholic Christian]

Not according to Islam. In the Muslims case, the parents would only be assisting the child in continuing their original state of submission to God.

But wait a second, having an inclination to God doesn´t mean the inclination is towards Islam...
If the parents were really only ¨assisting the child¨ in it´s continuation that means that the child has chosen before or on existance to follow God. That is not the case, otherwise any prophets that came in the past came to fulfill a pointless job. What I´m saying is that if a child is a Muslim and by so is an Islamist, then everyone in the world would be Islamist, but that is not the case since ¨every parent¨ assist the child to belive in what they believe. Isn´t that awkward?

Born ¨muslim¨ means what? Having inclination to submit to God? Everyone has inclination to Sin that´s the truth. No one knows about any specific Gods until someone else speaks to them about it. So saying that someone from the getgo has inclination to Islam is like me saying in America: Everyone has inclination to Christianity. And the truth is that the One God has put in the person the beginning to it´s goal on earth: To find God through the helpers He has put by grace on this Earth and HERE is where the argument starts again: Who has the True Religion.

[the sad clown]

But wait a second, having an inclination to God doesn´t mean the inclination is towards Islam...

It is if Islam describes how to perfectly follow God.

If the parents were really only ¨assisting the child¨ in it´s continuation that means that the child has chosen before or on existance to follow God.

And yet, that seems to be what the passage from the Qur'an suggests.

That is not the case, otherwise any prophets that came in the past came to fulfill a pointless job. What I´m saying is that if a child is a Muslim and by so is an Islamist, then everyone in the world would be Islamist, but that is not the case since ¨every parent¨ assist the child to belive in what they believe. Isn´t that awkward.

Unless people rebel against God and seek to mislead others. I believe Islam does ascribe free will to people, so this would be an option.

Born ¨muslim¨ means what? Having inclination to submit to God? Everyone has inclination to Sin that´s the truth.

It means more than just having an inclination, although that is included. It is actual submission to God that is ascribed to infants. Islam does not believe in the Christian concept of original sin and its corrupting effects as described in Christianity. They believe people have free will to either submit to God or rebel against him.

No one knows about any specific Gods until someone else speaks to them about it. So saying that someone from the getgo has inclination to Islam is like me saying in America: Everyone has inclination to Christianity. And the truth is that the One God has put in the person the beginning to it´s goal on earth: To find God through the helpers He has put by grace on this Earth and HERE is where the argument starts again: Who has the True Religion.

I do not know the state of knowledge the Islam ascribes to infants, but that doesn't mean that they are not naturally in a state of submission to God. The rest of your post seems to be confusing Christian doctrine with a discussion about Islamic belief. I think you should try to sort these two out, as they are contrary to each other on this point.

[Redeem]

"It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist."
Or Islamist.

Muslim.

Salam.

[the sad clown]

Muslim.

You are right. Calling people by (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&showtopic=728670&view=findpost&p=1208475"]the name they prefer[/url] is a sign of respect. I agree that Catholic Christian should refrain from using other terms that could be interpreted as derogatory. There are other examples to be found on this forum as well.