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The Documentary That Convince Atheists To Believe In God


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#41 andalusi

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:21 AM

here is examples of evidences of existence of God

Many atheists say that life was created by chance. Now i ask them , can you take numbers from 1 to 20 in a row, shake it a throw numbers out and what is the chance, that 20 numbers are in order
1,2,3,4,5....20 and not like this 3,5,1,9,15, 17...

The chance that such event happens is 0%

So how can all of this be a chance and that there is no creator in this universe.

Reason 1

HOW CAN NATURE CREATE A BABY WITH ORGANS IN MOTHERS WOMB AND THAT BABY DOES NOT NEED THOSE ORGANS IN THE WOMB, LIKE EYES, EARS, MOUTH, LEGS, HANDS AND SO ON? DOES NATURE KNOW FUTURE SO IT EQUIPS BABY WITH ORGANS SO IT CAN LIVE NORMALLY IN THIS WORLD? DOES NATURE KNOW THAT BABY WILL EAT IN FUTURE SO IT DOES NOT COVER TEETH/BONES IN MOUTH AND COVER ALL OTHER BONES, CAN YOU IMAGINE COVERED TEETH WITH FLESH? Does nature know the future that little baby shall eat apple, meat and other hard food, so it does not cover bones in the mouth (teeth)with flesh while all other bones in human body are covered. Does nature know the future, so it creates glands in the baby, so the baby can have sex after 18-25 years when, glands that creates natural lubricant so it is easy to have sex. no, God know the future sop it equips the baby with all organs that he/she needs for life on this earth.


Reson 2

If earth was little closer to the sun we would be burned, life impossible for humans, If earth was little bit farther from the sun, everything would freeze, life would be impossible for humans. If there was little bit more oxygen in atmosphere we could not live normally due to fire in nature, if there was less oxygen in atmosphere than it is today we could not breath. If the earth had not angle of 23 degrees we would not have 4 different periods in a years, summer, autumn, winter, spring. If the moon was 80 000 km farther from the earth, life would be almost impossible for humans, beacuse oceaon would flood the continents. If the atmosphere was thinner or smaller, meteors would bombing us all the time, life impossible.

Reason 3

How can someone give something wich he does not possess in his own hands, HOW CAN NATURE GIVE BRAIN AND INTELECT TO HUMANS AND NATURE ITSELF DOES NOT HAVE BRAIN NOR INTELECT. so someone who have something can give it to other, God has intelect and has power to give to humans.


Reason 4

Explosion always create chaos, have you ever seen that explosion creates a new BMW with GPS and other stuff. No, so How can Big bang create such harmony in nature ? Of course God started big bang and controlled it and crated life here on this planet. God said in the Quran that He started Big bang, and created universe.

Reason 5

Even we can see evidence of God existence in animals, they are equiped with capabilities for survival, HOW CAN FISH, BUTTERFLY,caterpillars, SPIDERS HAVE BIG FALSE EYES ON THEIR BODIES, AND THEIR REAL SMALL ARE HIDDEN, BIG EYES ALWAYS ASSOCIATE WITH BIGGER ANIMALS SO THE PREDATORS WILL BE SCARED WHEN THEY SEE THEM. WHO DESIGNED THOSE ANIMALS, WHO EQUIPED THOSE SMALL ANIMALS WITH FALSE BIG EYES ON THEY BODIES SO THEY CAN SCARE PREDATORS AND SURVIVE. GOD OF COURSE.


Reason 6

Fine tuning of the universe, if values in the universe was little lower universe would dissipear, if values in the universe was little higher universe would also dissipear,

Look what scientists say about that

Scientists talk about God, Is there a God? Evidence from universe that God exists - YouTube

Scientists talk about God, Is there a God? Evidence from universe that God exists - YouTube

So correct values in universe is also evidence that universe has a creator. God.

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This fish have false eye close to the tail, while real small eye is covered with black string.

HOW CAN A SUCH SMALL FISH HAVE CAPABILITIES TO CREATE FALSE BIG EYE CLOSE TO THE TAIL, WHILE REAL SMAL EYES ARE HIDDEN. DOES THE FISH KNOW THAT FALSE BIG EYE resembles bigger animal so it can scare predators, and hide his own little eye with black string. No, the fish does not now that, it is God , who is the designer of this little fish, so he equips it with false big eye, and hide fish real eye.


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Actually, what look like eyes are not eyes at all. They are skin patterns called ‘false eyes’ - adapted by these caterpillars as a defense against predators. The actual eyes are located in the areas indicated by the green circles

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other animals with same defending mechanism.

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THE FINE TUNING IN THE UNIVERSE

He Who created the seven heavens in layers. You will not find any flaw in the creation of the All-Merciful. Look again-do you see any gaps? Then look again and again. Your sight will return to you dazzled and exhausted
! (Qur'an, 67:3-4)

Do you not see how He created seven heavens in layers? (Qur'an, 71:15)

He to Whom the kingdom of the heavens and the earth belongs. He does not have a son and He has no partner in the Kingdom. He created everything and determined it most exactly. (Qur'an, 25:2)

Materialist philosophy emerged with the claim that all the systems in nature and the universe were like machines that functioned on their own, that the flawless order and balance within them were the work of chance. However, today, the false nature of materialism and of Darwinism, its so-called scientific foundation, has been scientifically demonstrated. (See Harun Yahya, The Evolution Deceit, 8th ed., Taha Publishers, 2004 and Darwinism Refuted, Goodword Books, 2003.)

The scientific discoveries of the 20th century that followed swiftly, one after the other, in the fields of astrophysics and biology have proved that life and the universe were created. As the theses of Darwinism collapsed, the Big Bang theory has shown that the universe was created from nothing. Discoveries have revealed that there is a great design and fine-tuning in the material world and this has categorically demonstrated the groundless nature of the claims of materialism.

Considering the conditions necessary for life, we see that only the Earth meets these particular conditions. For an environment suitable for life, there are innumerable conditions taking place simultaneously and unceasingly all around us. There are some hundred billion galaxies, each with-on average-a hundred billion stars. In all the galaxies, there are perhaps as many planets as stars.8 In the face of such overpowering numbers, one can better comprehend the significance of the formation of such an exceptional environment on the Earth.

From the force of the Big Bang explosion to the physical values of atoms, from the levels of the four basic forces to the chemical processes in the stars, from the type of light emitted by the Sun to the level of viscosity of water, from the distance of the Moon to the Earth to the level of gases in the atmosphere, from the Earth's distance from the Sun to its angle of tilt to its orbit, and from the speed at which the Earth revolves around its own axis to the functions of the oceans and mountains on the Earth: every single detail is ideally suited to our lives. Today, the world of science describes these features by means of the concepts of the "Anthropic Principle" and "Fine-Tuning." These concepts summarise the way that the universe is not an aimless, uncontrolled, chance collection of matter but that it has a purpose directed towards human life and has been designed with the greatest precision.

Attention is drawn in the above verses to the measure and harmony in Allah's creation. The word "taqdeeran," meaning "to design, measure, create by measuring," is employed in Qur'anic verses such as Surat al-Furqan 2. The word "tibaqan," meaning "in harmony," is used in Surat al-Mulk 3 and Surah Nuh 15. Furthermore, Allah also reveals in Surat al-Mulk with the word "tafawutin," meaning "disagreement, violation, non-conformity, disorder, opposite," that those who seek disharmony will fail to find it.

The term "fine-tuning," which began to be used towards the end of the 20th century, represents this truth revealed in the verses. Over the last quarter-century or so, a great many scientists, intellectuals and writers have shown that the universe is not a collection of coincidences. On the contrary, it has an extraordinary design and order ideally suited to human life in its every detail. (See Harun Yahya, The Creation of the Universe, Al-Attique Publishers, November 2002 and A Chain of Miracles, Global Publishing, May 2004.) Many features in the universe clearly show that the universe has been specially designed to support life. The physicist Dr. Karl Giberson expresses this fact thus:

In the 1960s, some physicists observed that our universe appears to have been fine-tuned for the existence of human life. 9

The British astrophysicist Professor George F. Ellis refers to this fine-tuning in these terms:

Amazing fine tuning occurs in the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use the word "miraculous" without taking a stand as to the ontological status of the word. 10

The speed of the Big Bang explosion:

The balances established with the Big Bang, the instantaneous formation of the universe, are one of the proofs that the universe did not come into being by chance. According to the well-known Adelaide University professor of mathematical physics Paul Davies, if the rate of expansion that took place following the Big Bang had been just one in a billion billion parts different (1/1018), the universe could not have come into being.11 In his book A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking recognises this extraordinary precision in the universe's rate of expansion:

If the rate of expansion one second after the big bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million, the universe would have recollapsed before it ever reached its present size. 12

The Four Forces:

All physical motion in the universe comes about thanks to the interaction and equilibrium of the four forces recognised by modern physics: gravity, electromagnetic force, strong nuclear force and weak nuclear force. These forces possess extraordinarily different values to one another. Michael Denton, the famous molecular biologist, describes the extraordinary equilibrium among these forces thus:

If, for example, the gravitational force was a trillion times stronger, then the universe would be far smaller and its life history far shorter. An average star would have a mass a trillion times less than the sun and a life span of about one year. On the other hand, if gravity had been less powerful, no stars or galaxies would have ever formed. The other relationships and values are no less critical. If the strong force had been just slightly weaker, the only element that would be stable would be hydrogen. No other atoms could exist. If it had been slightly stronger in relation to electromagnetism, then an atomic nucleus consisting of only two protons would be a stable feature of the universe-which would mean there would be no hydrogen, and if any stars or galaxies evolved, they would be very different from the way they are. Clearly, if these various forces and constants did not have precisely the values they do, there would be no stars, no supernovae, no planets, no atoms, no life. 13

The Distances between Celestial Bodies:

The distribution of celestial bodies in space and the enormous spaces between them are essential to the existence of life on Earth. The distances between celestial bodies have been set out in a calculation compatible with a great many powerful universal forces in such a way as to support life on Earth. In his book Nature's Destiny Michael Denton describes the distance between supernovae and stars:

The distances between supernovae and indeed between all stars is critical for other reasons. The distance between stars in our galaxy is about 30 million miles. If this distance was much less, planetary orbits would be destabilized. If it was much more, then the debris thrown out by a supernova would be so diffusely distributed that planetary systems like our own would in all probability never form. If the cosmos is to be a home for life, then the flickering of the supernovae must occur at a very precise rate and the average distance between them, and indeed between all stars, must be very close to the actual observed figure. 14

Gravity:

- If gravity were stronger, excessive ammonia and methane would collect in the Earth's atmosphere, which would have a most damaging effect on life.

- If it were weaker, the Earth's atmosphere would lose excessive quantities of water, making life impossible.

The Earth's Distance from the Sun:

- If this were any greater, the planet would grow very cold, the water cycle in the atmosphere would be affected, and the planet would enter an ice-age.

- If the Earth were any closer to the Sun, plants would burn up, the water cycle in the Earth's atmosphere would be irreparably damaged, and life would become impossible.-

The Thickness of the Earth's Crust:

- If the crust were any thicker, then an excessive amount of oxygen would be transferred to it from the atmosphere.
- If it were any thinner, the resulting amount of volcanic activity would make life impossible.

The Speed at which the Earth Revolves:

If this were any slower, the temperature difference between day and night would grow enormously.

-If it were any faster, then atmospheric winds would reach enormous speeds, and cyclones and storms would make life impossible.

The Earth's Magnetic Field:

- If this were any more powerful, very strong electromagnetic storms would arise.

- If it were any weaker, then the Earth would lose its protection against the harmful particles given off by the Sun and known as solar winds. Both situations would make life impossible.-

The Albedo Effect (Ratio between the amount of light the Earth reflects and the amount of light that is absorbed):

- If this were any greater, an ice-age would rapidly result.

- If it were any less, the greenhouse effect would lead to excessive warming. The Earth would first be flooded with the melting of the glaciers, and would then burn up.-

The Proportion of Oxygen and Nitrogen in the Atmosphere:

- If this were any greater, vital functions would be adversely accelerated.

- If it were any less, vital functions would adversely slow down.

The Proportion of Carbon Dioxide and Water in the Atmosphere:

- If this were any greater, the atmosphere would overheat.

- If it were any less, the temperature of the atmosphere would fall.

The Thickness of the Ozone Layer:

- If this were any greater, the Earth's temperature would fall enormously.

- If it were any less, the Earth would overheat and be defenceless against the harmful ultraviolet rays emitted by the Sun.

Seismic Activity (Earthquakes):

- If this were any greater, there would be constant upheaval for living things.

- If it were any less, the nutrients at the sea bottom would fail to spread into the water. This would have a damaging effect on life in the seas and oceans and all living things on Earth.-

The Earth's Angle of Tilt:

The Earth has a 23 degree angle of inclination to its orbit. It is this inclination that gives rise to the seasons. If this angle were any greater or any less than it is now, the temperature difference between the seasons would reach extreme dimensions, with unbearably hot summers and bitterly cold winters.

The Size of the Sun:

A smaller star than the Sun would mean the Earth would freeze and a larger star would lead to its burning up.

The Attraction between the Earth and the Moon:

- If this were any greater, the powerful attraction of the Moon would have extremely serious effects on atmospheric conditions, the speed at which the Earth revolves around its own axis and on the ocean tides.

- If it were any less, this would lead to extreme climate changes.-

The Distance between the Earth and the Moon:

- If they were just a little closer, the Moon would crash into the Earth.

- If they were any further, the Moon would become lost in space.

- If they were even a little closer, the Moon's effect on the Earth's tides would reach dangerous dimensions. Ocean waves would inundate low-lying areas. The friction emerging as a result of this would raise the temperature of the oceans and the sensitive temperature balance essential to life on Earth would disappear.

- If they were even a little further away, the tides would decrease, leading the oceans to be less mobile. Immobile water would endanger life in the seas, and the level of the oxygen we breathe would be endangered. 15

The Temperature of the Earth and Carbon-Based Life:

The existence of carbon, the basis of all life, depends on the temperature remaining within specific limits. Carbon is an essential substance for organic molecules such as amino-acid, nucleic acid and protein: These constitute the basis of life. For that reason, life can only be carbon-based. Given this, the existing temperature needs to be no lower than -20 degrees and no higher than 120 degrees Celsius. These are just the temperature limits on Earth.

These are just a few of the exceedingly sensitive balances which are essential for life on Earth to have emerged and to survive. Yet even these are sufficient to definitively reveal that the Earth and the universe could not have come into being as the result of a number of consecutive coincidences. The concepts of "fine-tuning" and the "anthropic principle" that began to be employed in the 20th century are further evidence of Allah's creation. The harmony and proportion therein were described with magnificent accuracy fourteen centuries ago in the Qur'an.


8. Carl Sagan, Cosmos (Avenel, NJ: Wings Books: April 1983), 5-7.
9. Karl Giberson, “The Anthropic Principle,” Journal of Interdisciplinary Studies 9 (1997).
10. George F. Ellis, "The Anthropic Principle: Laws and Environments,” The Anthropic Principle, F. Bertola and U. Curi (New York: Cambridge University Press: 1993), 30.
11. Paul Davies, Superforce: The Search for a Grand Unified Theory of Nature, 1984, 184.
12. Stephen Hawking, A Brief History of Time (London: Bantam Press: 1988), 121-125.
13. Michael Denton, Nature's Destiny: How the Laws of Biology Reveal Purpose in the Universe (New York: The Free Press: 1998), 12-13.
14. Ibid., 11.
15. http://www.pathlight.....htm#Elemental Forces


#42 StopS

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 12:53 PM

OK, I give up. You want to live in a dream-world, fine.
All you need to realise one day is that you are one of the reasons why Muslims are considered uneducated and superstitious. You use factual examples which contradict the Koran and you don't even notice it - because you don't understand them. Oh boy. Why don't you rather keep quiet?

#43 andalusi

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:29 PM

OK, I give up. You want to live in a dream-world, fine.
All you need to realise one day is that you are one of the reasons why Muslims are considered uneducated and superstitious. You use factual examples which contradict the Koran and you don't even notice it - because you don't understand them. Oh boy. Why don't you rather keep quiet?


OK, I give up. You want to live in a dream-world, fine


dont give up man, my advice to yuo ,read quran, so you can understand how i think.

coming to me unprepared is like indians with arrows attacking superpower with atomic bombs. you need to know how i think and why i think like i do.

read the quran, and then we can talk


All you need to realise one day is that you are one of the reasons why Muslims are considered uneducated and superstitious.


i gradued at university, in western countries.


Oh boy. Why don't you rather keep quiet?


is that your best shot against me, you best argument, just keep quiet :)

man, i shall keep quiet when you read quran

#44 Padre5

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 07:05 PM

ANdalusi, your last post was a better post on the issue than almost all of what so-called "Creation Scientists" spew here in America! Very good work!

#45 Holly

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:01 PM

here is examples of evidences of existence of God

Many atheists say that life was created by chance. Now i ask them , can you take numbers from 1 to 20 in a row, shake it a throw numbers out and what is the chance, that 20 numbers are in order
1,2,3,4,5....20 and not like this 3,5,1,9,15, 17...

The chance that such event happens is 0%

So how can all of this be a chance and that there is no creator in this universe.


I think the above is silly as suggesting it offers support of an allegation that god(s) exist. What point are you trying to make?
Firstly, the chances are not 0% in connection with your example above. Secondly, random number sequences are not supportive of evidence for the gods.
Lastly, your long cut and paste has the unmistakable odor of Harun Yahya.

#46 Holly

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:05 PM

If earth was little closer to the sun we would be burned, life impossible for humans, If earth was little bit farther from the sun, everything would freeze, life would be impossible for humans. If there was little bit more oxygen in atmosphere we could not live normally due to fire in nature, if there was less oxygen in atmosphere than it is today we could not breath. If the earth had not angle of 23 degrees we would not have 4 different periods in a years, summer, autumn, winter, spring. If the moon was 80 000 km farther from the earth, life would be almost impossible for humans, beacuse oceaon would flood the continents. If the atmosphere was thinner or smaller, meteors would bombing us all the time, life impossible.


Correct. If conditions on this planet were different, conditions would be different.

That's what we call "stating the obvious".

#47 andalusi

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:59 AM

Correct. If conditions on this planet were different, conditions would be different.

That's what we call "stating the obvious".


yes , and try to put the earth closer to sun, life inmpossible for us or put it little farther from the sun , life impossible for us.
So god has made special messuermets for us humans so we can live here on earth. but you as atheist can believe that this is all created by the chance.

#48 Holly

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:49 AM

yes , and try to put the earth closer to sun, life inmpossible for us or put it little farther from the sun , life impossible for us.
So god has made special messuermets for us humans so we can live here on earth. but you as atheist can believe that this is all created by the chance.

Yes, and try to put the earth precisely where it in relation to the sun and life would be impossible at both polar regions. Be sure to thank the gods for that for that design flaw.

Oh, and the blueprint for killing earthquakes, tsunami floods, tornadoes, hurricanes and other "acts of the gods"... and the blueprint for the cancer cell... what a masterstroke of design. As a "designer", your gods are utterly incompetent.

#49 AHMAD_73

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:12 PM

-----
since the life is a test, all kinds of difficulties human encounters are just simply the questions of the test, Allah monitors the human reactions, records it and then accout him about it. that also to distinguish between the Jannah life and this Doniah (low) life, that will urge people to to reach the joy life in Jannah.

all mankind will face questions (difficultis) while the bad amoung them will be punished by some more kinds of these difficulties, sadness and emptness (that lead to suicide) are the price of being away from god. many fatal diseases (STDs/AIDS/ many types of cancers) are the price of all kinds of illegal sex (the map of AIDS is coincedant with the map of that type of sex), some natural desesters are the price of homosexuality (people of LOT and mostly Pompii).

#50 andalusi

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:30 PM

Oh, and the blueprint for killing earthquakes, tsunami floods, tornadoes, hurricanes and other "acts of the gods"... and the blueprint for the cancer cell... what a masterstroke of design. As a "designer", your gods are utterly incompetent.


do you expect the earth to be a paradise or what?

What a about if that desginer use killing earthquakes, tsunami floods, tornadoes, hurricanes as PUNISHMENT FOR PEOPLE? WHY DONT YOU THINK LIKE THAT?

God explains in quran:

42:30 Any disaster that strikes you is through what your own hands have earned and HE forgives many of your sins.

31 you cannot escape Him anywhere on earth: you have no protector or helper other than God.

32 And of HIS signs are the sailing ships on the sea, tall like mountains.

33 If He willed, He could still the winds, leaving them motionless on top of it. In that are signs for every one who is patient, thankful.

34 Or He may drown them, for what they have earned, but He pardons much.

#51 Holly

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:00 PM

do you expect the earth to be a paradise or what?

What a about if that desginer use killing earthquakes, tsunami floods, tornadoes, hurricanes as PUNISHMENT FOR PEOPLE? WHY DONT YOU THINK LIKE THAT?

God explains in quran:

42:30 Any disaster that strikes you is through what your own hands have earned and HE forgives many of your sins.

31 you cannot escape Him anywhere on earth: you have no protector or helper other than God.

32 And of HIS signs are the sailing ships on the sea, tall like mountains.

33 If He willed, He could still the winds, leaving them motionless on top of it. In that are signs for every one who is patient, thankful.

34 Or He may drown them, for what they have earned, but He pardons much.


I believe your comments self contradict. On the one hand, you are attempting to define the "perfect order" that you claim the gods have established on this planet yet you post Any disaster that strikes you is through what your own hands have earned.

Quite clearly, "natural disasters" are the result of your gods, not something that is through my own hands.

Things arethe way they arebecause the Gods want them precisely this way and this includes a nasty and capricious nature which will kill people via floods and tornadoes and fires and earthquakes etc., none of which are essential to a world created by a God. He could have just as easily made it otherwise, he just didn't.

So it's useless to argue that "this life is a test". That makes no sense. Of what purpose are there "natural evils"? How many fires wiping out cities have we needed to learn some alleged "test"? Do we really need mudslides eradicating villages and snuffing out the lives of children just so we can be "tested"?

And so the next argument is, "Well, this is the way existence is!" Except that argument has no reply against: "Yes, but why doe the gods create it "the way it is" when they just as easily could have created it differently?" And back to the same answer: Evil exists to "test" us-- a wonder to behold!


Or-- existence is natural and things happen that are good to our perspective, or bad to our perspective, and each day we choose a path unfettered by anything but the laws of nature.



There is really no such a things as a "natural consequence" because the root of all is the supernatural law-defining abilities of the gods that cobbled it together. The gods don't cause an earthquake? Yes, they establish the laws of plate tectonics which describe the physical characteristics of portions of the earth’s crust which shifts and adjusts, and those elements together create shifting of landmasses we call earthquakes.


The gods don't cause tornadoes? Yes, they establish the laws of convection and rotation of planets, and those two elements together create swirling whirlwinds we call twisters. As the Author of All, they could have created a completely different existence-- but didn't.

#52 andalusi

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:52 AM

I believe your comments self contradict. On the one hand, you are attempting to define the "perfect order" that you claim the gods have established on this planet yet you post Any disaster that strikes you is through what your own hands have earned.

Quite clearly, "natural disasters" are the result of your gods, not something that is through my own hands.

Things arethe way they arebecause the Gods want them precisely this way and this includes a nasty and capricious nature which will kill people via floods and tornadoes and fires and earthquakes etc., none of which are essential to a world created by a God. He could have just as easily made it otherwise, he just didn't.

So it's useless to argue that "this life is a test". That makes no sense. Of what purpose are there "natural evils"? How many fires wiping out cities have we needed to learn some alleged "test"? Do we really need mudslides eradicating villages and snuffing out the lives of children just so we can be "tested"?

And so the next argument is, "Well, this is the way existence is!" Except that argument has no reply against: "Yes, but why doe the gods create it "the way it is" when they just as easily could have created it differently?" And back to the same answer: Evil exists to "test" us-- a wonder to behold!


Or-- existence is natural and things happen that are good to our perspective, or bad to our perspective, and each day we choose a path unfettered by anything but the laws of nature.



There is really no such a things as a "natural consequence" because the root of all is the supernatural law-defining abilities of the gods that cobbled it together. The gods don't cause an earthquake? Yes, they establish the laws of plate tectonics which describe the physical characteristics of portions of the earth’s crust which shifts and adjusts, and those elements together create shifting of landmasses we call earthquakes.


The gods don't cause tornadoes? Yes, they establish the laws of convection and rotation of planets, and those two elements together create swirling whirlwinds we call twisters. As the Author of All, they could have created a completely different existence-- but didn't.



what gods are you talking about ? we dont believe in gods.

Quite clearly, "natural disasters" are the result of your gods, not something that is through my own hands.


you dont understand, distaster wich strikes people can be punishment from God or test.

But volcanos, hurricanes, tzunamis are natural happenings wich God uses sometimes as a punishment for people.

#53 Holly

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:09 AM

what gods are you talking about ? we dont believe in gods.

Why limit yourself to one god when multiple, bustling entities can form a formidible union?



you dont understand, distaster wich strikes people can be punishment from God or test.

But volcanos, hurricanes, tzunamis are natural happenings wich God uses sometimes as a punishment for people.

You seem to speak with authority on the wants and wishes of the gods. So tell us please, in the case of the people who died in the Japanese tsunami, who was being tested?

#54 andalusi

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:35 AM

Why limit yourself to one god when multiple, bustling entities can form a formidible union?

You seem to speak with authority on the wants and wishes of the gods. So tell us please, in the case of the people who died in the Japanese tsunami, who was being tested?


Why limit yourself to one god when multiple, bustling entities can form a formidible union?


God answer to you from quran:

6:102 This is God, your Lord, there is no God but Him, the Creator of all things, so worship Him; He is in charge of everything.

23:91 God has never had a child. Nor is there any god beside Him- if there were, each god would have taken his creation aside and tried to overcome the others. May God be exalted above what they describe!

21:22 If there had been in the heavens or earth any gods but Him, both heavens and earth would be in ruins: God, Lord of the Throne, is far above the things they say:


You seem to speak with authority on the wants and wishes of the gods. So tell us please, in the case of the people who died in the Japanese tsunami, who was being tested?


For unbelievers it is a punishment for believers it is a test, HOW?

When distaster strikes on unbelievers and they die, there is no go back to earth, no possibility to regret for their deeds, while in case when distater strikes believers, those who die are martyrs and go to paradise, the difference between the death of beleiver and unbeliever is when soul is separated from the body, Angel of death separates soul of unbeliever with much pain to unbliever, but when angel of death take the soul of a believer he takes it easy, without pain, and believer goes to Paradise. while those believers who are still aliive after distatser, they shall be patient and they will get reward from God on the day of judgment for that, while unbeliever will not get reward if they still alive and be patient after that.

So in the case of Japanese tsunami , we shall look for their deeds, and it was Shirk(setting partners aside of God, beacuse when you worship Buddha statues, you are commiting a shrik, so in that case japanese tzunami is probably punishment.

#55 Holly

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:33 AM

God answer to you from quran:

6:102 This is God, your Lord, there is no God but Him, the Creator of all things, so worship Him; He is in charge of everything.

23:91 God has never had a child. Nor is there any god beside Him- if there were, each god would have taken his creation aside and tried to overcome the others. May God be exalted above what they describe!

21:22 If there had been in the heavens or earth any gods but Him, both heavens and earth would be in ruins: God, Lord of the Throne, is far above the things they say:


Those verses are similar to the claims made by many gods prior to the Islamic gods. To the back of the line you go.


For unbelievers it is a punishment for believers it is a test, HOW?

When distaster strikes on unbelievers and they die, there is no go back to earth, no possibility to regret for their deeds, while in case when distater strikes believers, those who die are martyrs and go to paradise, the difference between the death of beleiver and unbeliever is when soul is separated from the body, Angel of death separates soul of unbeliever with much pain to unbliever, but when angel of death take the soul of a believer he takes it easy, without pain, and believer goes to Paradise. while those believers who are still aliive after distatser, they shall be patient and they will get reward from God on the day of judgment for that, while unbeliever will not get reward if they still alive and be patient after that.

So in the case of Japanese tsunami , we shall look for their deeds, and it was Shirk(setting partners aside of God, beacuse when you worship Buddha statues, you are commiting a shrik, so in that case japanese tzunami is probably punishment.

So tell us then, when the tsunami swept over Aceh, a largely Muslim nation, who was being punished and who was being tested? As you speak with such authority on the Islamic gods, why the need to slaughter so many Muslims? Wouldn't it have made sense for the gods to mass slaughter... oh, I don't know... Christians and Jews as a sign of gods favoring Muslims?

#56 andalusi

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:53 AM

Those verses are similar to the claims made by many gods prior to the islamic gods. To the back of the line you go.



So tell us then, when the tsunami swept over Aceh, a largely Muslim nation, who was being punished and who was being tested? As you speak with such authority on the islamic gods, why the need to slaughter so many Muslims? Wouldn't it have made sense for the gods to mass slaughter... oh, I don't know... Christians and Jews as a sign of gods favoring Muslims?



Those verses are similar to the claims made by many gods prior to the islamic gods. To the back of the line you go


wich gods, did they sent any books or messengers to people to guide them to the right path?


So tell us then, when the tsunami swept over Aceh, a largely Muslim nation, who was being punished and who was being tested? As you speak with such authority on the islamic gods, why the need to slaughter so many Muslims? Wouldn't it have made sense for the gods to mass slaughter... oh, I don't know... Christians and Jews as a sign of gods favoring Muslims?


yes it can be punishment, if you have muslim name Muhammed or Ahmed it does not me that you are safe from God's punishment if you deserve it.

#57 Holly

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 03:15 PM

wich gods, did they sent any books or messengers to people to guide them to the right path?

Yes, of course.




yes it can be punishment, if you have muslim name Muhammed or Ahmed it does not me that you are safe from God's punishment if you deserve it.

Why do you think that children swept away in the Aceh floods deserved such a death?

#58 andalusi

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 04:10 PM

Yes, of course.

Why do you think that children swept away in the Aceh floods deserved such a death?


Yes, of course.


tell us, what is the book they revealed, what messenegers did they sent?


Why do you think that children swept away in the Aceh floods deserved such a death?


i let prophet Muhammed explain that

Allah's mercy on dead children and their parents

58) Narrated some companions of the Prophet (pbuh) that they heard the Prophet (pbuh) saying: On the Day of Resurrection, it would be said to the children: Get into Paradise. The Prophet (pbuh) said: They will say: O Lord! (We shall not enter Paradise unless our fathers and mothers enter (with us). The Prophet (pbuh) added: They will be brought. Allah will say: What is the matter that they are reluctant to go to Paradise? The children will say: But what about our fathers and mothers! Allah will say: Enter Paradise you and your parents.
(This Hadith is sound and related with Musnad of Ahmad)

The problem is not the death, the problem is what will happen after the death, death is only door to Hearafter, life after death, wich is never ending life.
So what is the problem if children die and go to paradise, and maybe even their parents go to paradise also with them. But problem can be,when those children maybe grow old here on earth and they become atheists, God haters, non-believers and die as non-believers, then that is a real catastrophy.

#59 andalusi

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 04:12 PM

Difference between the death of non-believer and muslim believer


God said in quran:

Say: "The Angel of Death, put in charge of you, will (duly) take your souls: then shall you be brought back to your Lord. (32:11)
If you could see, when the angels take the souls of the unbelievers (at death), how they smite their faces and their backs, saying: taste the penalty of the blazing fire. Because of the deeds which your own hands sent forth: For God is never unjust to his servants. (8:50-51)

The Hadith of the Prophet about extracting the soul from the flesh of bad people is summarized as follows: Al-Baraa'Ibn 'Azib narrated that the Prophet (pbuh) said:
If an unbelieving servant is more concerned with the worldly life than he is about the other life, tarfaced angels descend from the sky. These angels, who are carrying bad smelling fragrance, sit in near proximity tot he dying unbeliever. Then the Angel of Death descends and places himself near the head of the unbeliever. The Angel of Death says: 'O bad soul! Come out to Allah's curse and anger.' The Prophet (p) said: The soul disperses in the dying person's body. The Angel of Death grabs the soul like a sufud (a piece of metal stuck in wet wool). The Angel of Death takes the soul without letting it stay in his hand for even an instance. Then the angels put a rough garment that smells bad on the deceased's soul. The soul comes out having a very foul smell.

For those who are good, the Quran informs us that the extraction and pulling out the soul from flesh is very easy. The dying person will not feel the pain from the removal of the soul from his body. It will be as easy as pulling a strand of hair out of some dough. The Hadith of the Prophet (p) narrated by Al-Baraa'Ibn 'Azib states the following:

If the believing servant refrains from coverting material things in his temporal life and desires the hereafter, white-faced angels descend from the sky. Their faces shine as brightly as the sun. They carry with them funeral garb and hanut (fragrance) from Heavan. They sit in near proximity to the dying person. The Angel of Death (may Allah bless him) comes and sits near the dying person's head, saying: O good soul, come out to Allah's mercy and forgiveness.
The Prophet (p) said, The soul comes out like a drop of water being poured out. Then the Angel takes the soul, without letting it stand in his hand; releases it like a blink. The other angels take the soul and clothe it in funeral gard and hanut. From that soul comes the best smell, one resembling the best musk on earth
.

#60 Holly

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 05:01 PM

tell us, what is the book they revealed, what messenegers did they sent?

Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon




i let prophet Muhammed explain that

Allah's mercy on dead children and their parents

58) Narrated some companions of the Prophet (pbuh) that they heard the Prophet (pbuh) saying: On the Day of Resurrection, it would be said to the children: Get into Paradise. The Prophet (pbuh) said: They will say: O Lord! (We shall not enter Paradise unless our fathers and mothers enter (with us). The Prophet (pbuh) added: They will be brought. Allah will say: What is the matter that they are reluctant to go to Paradise? The children will say: But what about our fathers and mothers! Allah will say: Enter Paradise you and your parents.
(This Hadith is sound and related with Musnad of Ahmad)

The problem is not the death, the problem is what will happen after the death, death is only door to Hearafter, life after death, wich is never ending life.
So what is the problem if children die and go to paradise, and maybe even their parents go to paradise also with them. But problem can be,when those children maybe grow old here on earth and they become atheists, God haters, non-believers and die as non-believers, then that is a real catastrophy.

Ah, I see. So it appears that you believe it was acceptable, even a "blessing" that children in Aceh died in horrible ways. Would that blessing also apply to children who are murdered as the result of Muslim suicide bombers?

This is the issue I have with such an ideology that glorifies death. Suicide in the name of religion is not suicide, it's martyrdom. The religious perception is that the self-inflicted martyrdom used in the act of destroying innocents is doing gods work. I think it is very obvious that such a perspective provides an allowance for one to be dragged back to medieval thinking, whether that be due to the inherent dynamics of the ideology or the conscious desire of its adherents (a lot of the former, a little of the latter I think). That masses of people want to live under such strictures is astonishing perhaps but those adherents are forming a line and waiting to snuff out lives. There's this dynamic of self-decption that goes hand in hand with most of the ancient religious beliefs vs. modern reality, and for the most part such deceptions are harmless.

Nature has preprogrammed successful animals with a desire to survive, and once you add our ability to have a sentient perception of death, you have a formula for a more deep seated fear (at least, one that can be expressed by doing something more than just fleeing, like all other animals do). I think these martyr-murderers have squelched the issue of self-preservation (via their religion, which deceives them via a promise that cannot ever be proven to exist, i.e., paradise) and they are very much aware that being blown to bits pretty much snaps off the light switch with no time to register the fact that one is in pain or dead (academic argument, that last bit). Without getting into a theistic brawl, it is this aspect of one particular theism, to successfully implant a goal without proof or evidence of any kind, that gives rise to the endless chain of death its adherents are amazingly willing to inflict upon one another.