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The Documentary That Convince Atheists To Believe In God


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#61 andalusi

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 05:21 PM

Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon

Ah, I see. So it appears that you believe it was acceptable, even a "blessing" that children in Aceh died in horrible ways. Would that blessing also apply to children who are murdered as the result of Muslim suicide bombers?



Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon


what did he preached, did he preformed any miracles as evidence of his prophethood?


Ah, I see. So it appears that you believe it was acceptable, even a "blessing" that children in Aceh died in horrible ways. Would that blessing also apply to children who are murdered as the result of Muslim suicide bombers?


if muslim suicide bomber kill a child, child would probably go to paradise with Mercy of God, and those suicide bombers would probably go to Hell.

Suicide in islam i strongly forbiden, and God punish with hell those who commit suicide.

#62 Holly

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:27 PM

what did he preached, did he preformed any miracles as evidence of his prophethood?

As with most "prophets", he claimed a special relationship with the Christian god. His Prophethood... Prophet'ness... whatever was confirmed with golden plates bearing a history of Christian American civilizations. Prophets come and prophets go but salesmen live forever.




if muslim suicide bomber kill a child, child would probably go to paradise with Mercy of God, and those suicide bombers would probably go to Hell.

Unfortunately, people will hope to convince themselves of that, thus, providing an allowance for that madness to continue.

Suicide in Islam i strongly forbiden, and God punish with hell those who commit suicide.

Actually, I don't believe that's true. There is a core component of religious doctrine that devalues life; life tends to be cheap because the adherent's believe that life continues after death; that there are rewards for martyrdom and that life is replaceable able by the gods. There is an allowance for killing because you are "sending the person to a "better place" and an allowance for being the victim because there are rewards for being martyred. Most of stand in shocked disbelief at the carnage that muslims are so willing to inflict on themselves and others. Or, at least we used to be shocked. Now we just count the bodies.

#63 AHMAD_73

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:38 AM

Ah, I see. So it appears that you believe it was acceptable, even a "blessing" that children in Aceh died in horrible ways. Would that blessing also apply to children who are murdered as the result of Muslim suicide bombers?


it seems fair and balanced, the Islamic view for those who kills innocents, the oppressors will be punished in the second life, while the oppressed or highly tested people will be honoerd and compensated.

i like to know your opinion on the former USSR (i don't know you will call it an atheist or only a non-believer regiem) that killed 10s of millions of his own people for no fair reason, for example at the period of the atheist (or non beliver) Stalin he killed 17,000,000 innocent souls (children/young/old/ men/women) how can you see the fair compunsatin for that??

i like to know the same for the compined (christian/atheist) USA 10 years seige then the illigal invasion and the illegal occupation to Iraq that led to 1,000,000s of innocient killings (although it was not by suicide 2 kg bombers but by the 9 ton bombs, exhasted uranium , white phosphor, the pre-paid killers flocks, black water .....etc.)?? how can you see the fair compunsatin for that??

can you compare between your question and mine quantitative and qualitative?

#64 StopS

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:28 PM

it seems fair and balanced, the Islamic view for those who kills innocents, the oppressors will be punished in the second life, while the oppressed or highly tested people will be honoerd and compensated.

i like to know your opinion on the former USSR (i don't know you will call it an atheist or only a non-believer regiem) that killed 10s of millions of his own people for no fair reason, for example at the period of the atheist (or non beliver) Stalin he killed 17,000,000 innocent souls (children/young/old/ men/women) how can you see the fair compunsatin for that??

i like to know the same for the compined (christian/atheist) USA 10 years seige then the illigal invasion and the illegal occupation to Iraq that led to 1,000,000s of innocient killings (although it was not by suicide 2 kg bombers but by the 9 ton bombs, exhasted uranium , white phosphor, the pre-paid killers flocks, black water .....etc.)?? how can you see the fair compunsatin for that??

can you compare between your question and mine quantitative and qualitative?


I know Holly can handle this - I just get sooo incredibly angry when I see people writing stuff like this.

How can a Muslim really believe that killing 1000's of children in earthquakes, tsunamis or by famine is "fair and balanced"???

Not by humans, but an "all-merciful" god.

It is not the Muslim god or the Hindu god or the Rastafarian god punishing me in an afterlife, but Muslims, humans, trying to kill me today, here and now, which annoys me somewhat.

What does a guy like Stalin have to do with a god? If you use numbers, get them right. "Stalin is responsible for the death of 17 million Russians, but only half a million were killed by his order. Khomeini sent children to die in the war against Iraq, but it was a war, so they are not counted here." But if you are right and there is only one god then guess who is responsible for ALL those deaths?

Where do you get your millions of people killed in Iraq??? Were they killed by a god or other humans? Were these other humans only "christian/atheist" as you claim or were there Muslims too, because there are almost as many Muslims in the USA as there are atheists?

How can anyone be so cold-blooded and demand a comparison between killings of humans on a "qualitative" basis? Are you even human?

#65 andalusi

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:09 AM

I know Holly can handle this - I just get sooo incredibly angry when I see people writing stuff like this.

How can a Muslim really believe that killing 1000's of children in earthquakes, tsunamis or by famine is "fair and balanced"???

Not by humans, but an "all-merciful" god.

It is not the Muslim god or the Hindu god or the Rastafarian god punishing me in an afterlife, but Muslims, humans, trying to kill me today, here and now, which annoys me somewhat.

What does a guy like Stalin have to do with a god? If you use numbers, get them right. "Stalin is responsible for the death of 17 million Russians, but only half a million were killed by his order. Khomeini sent children to die in the war against Iraq, but it was a war, so they are not counted here." But if you are right and there is only one god then guess who is responsible for ALL those deaths?

Where do you get your millions of people killed in Iraq??? Were they killed by a god or other humans? Were these other humans only "christian/atheist" as you claim or were there Muslims too, because there are almost as many Muslims in the USA as there are atheists?

How can anyone be so cold-blooded and demand a comparison between killings of humans on a "qualitative" basis? Are you even human?


you atheists have an intresting caracteristic, that is to bring paradise here on earth, you want here paradise on this earth, without pain, distatsers death and son on and on, but that is paradise after death.

God says in quran:

2:214 Or did you expect that you would enter Paradise, while the example of those who were before you came to you; they were stricken with adversity and hardship, and they were shaken until the messenger and those who believed with him said: "When is God's victory" Yes indeed, God's victory is near.

3:142 Or did you think that you would enter Paradise without God knowing those who would strive amongst you and knowing those who are patient

#66 StopS

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:36 AM

you atheists have an intresting caracteristic, that is to bring paradise here on earth, you want here paradise on this earth, without pain, distatsers death and son on and on, but that is paradise after death.

God says in quran:

2:214 Or did you expect that you would enter Paradise, while the example of those who were before you came to you; they were stricken with adversity and hardship, and they were shaken until the messenger and those who believed with him said: "When is God's victory" Yes indeed, God's victory is near.

3:142 Or did you think that you would enter Paradise without God knowing those who would strive amongst you and knowing those who are patient


You don't understand a word I am saying.

#67 andalusi

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:42 AM

You don't understand a word I am saying.


did you read quran :D

did you ever see a commentators commenting a book while they never read it?

can you imagine a person commenting whole movie wihtout seeing it? that is crazy, it is similar to you atheists, you like to comment islam and quran, and you probably never touched it not to say you read it or some pages maybe.

you see, i try to read atheistic stuff and christian stuff so i am prepared for discussion, and you atheists dont even know what we muslims have and you dare to discuss with us about islam.

You as a profesional debator, should come to me and say , i have read whole quran, and i think that quran is not from God beacuse of that and that, giving me evidence why quran is not from God. Not coming to me saying, you dont know, shut up, bla bla bla -_-

#68 andalusi

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:49 AM

How can anyone be so cold-blooded and demand a comparison between killings of humans on a "qualitative" basis? Are you even human?


God who gives you life , can even take it from you if he want , whenever he want, while you sleeping, standing, sitting, eating, sitting on toilet chair, and nobody could stop Him or bring him to the court for that.

So if God gives life then he can take it from the people, it is not up to you to command God what he shall do, you can not command Obama to clean your shoes and you expect to command God who is lord of universe. come on man... :glare:

God says:

45:26 ...It is God who gives you life, then causes you to die, and then He gathers you all to the Day of Resurrection of which there is no doubt, but most of the people do not know.

#69 AHMAD_73

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:29 PM

How can a Muslim really believe that killing 1000's of children in earthquakes, tsunamis or by famine is "fair and balanced"???

because we don't believe in one life, we believe in a test life (which should contain difficulties) and another eternal life where the compensation, and the complete justice will be accomplished.

Not by humans, but an "all-merciful" god.

the mercy have a wider view,
difficulties are the test questions, it test the human patience and reaction. and test the others' help and integrity, that will erase ones bad deeds and increase his good deeds. that's real mercy if you believe in the second life.
it's also a fair pre-warned punishment for a specific kind of sins, diseases is attached to illegal sex, perishing a community when the sex level exaggerate the limits prescribed by Allah.

Example:
i believe no one knows exactly what/where is the origin of AIDS virus? some tells it transferred from a tribe in middle Africa due to bad practices or from a kind of monkeys or whatever (which i don't agree on)....now if Allah perished that tribe (like Lot people or Pompeii) isn't that considered a real mercy for the others in the world. that may save the USA which have 1.5 million proven cases and almost the same non-proven!!!! that will be a serious lesson for the others to stop these kinds of sins to save themselves.

It is not the Muslim god or the Hindu god or the Rastafarian god punishing me in an afterlife, but Muslims, humans, trying to kill me today, here and now, which annoys me somewhat.


if you can't see the USA and allies armies (in 100,000s with the most advanced destructive weapons) attacks the Moslems in Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan 1990s, Libya 1980s, Somalia 1990s, paid the Christian Ethiopia to wag another war on Somalia in 2000s,....... while all what you can see few individual reactions magnified by MEDIA (which is not Islamic),,,,,,, you may need to review your justice concepts.

What does a guy like Stalin have to do with a god? If you use numbers, get them right. "Stalin is responsible for the death of 17 million Russians, but only half a million were killed by his order.


my question was about your justice concept here, is it done for Stalin who killed Millions/ caused millions to be handicapped/ forced transfer millions/.....ETC won't he pay a penny for each case?

Where do you get your millions of people killed in Iraq???



you are right, they may be only 100,000s but guess what the occupying forces, USA, are the responsible to provide us with the real numbers, why they didn't??
guess what too, the occupying forces are the only responsible for security in the occupied land. and so they are responsible for every single casuality in Iraq if they killed it with the 9 ton bombs or allowed one sect to do so in the other.

Were these other humans only "Christian/atheist" as you claim or were there Muslims too, because there are almost as many Muslims in the USA as there are atheists?


the USA life style/laws are atheist systems, your education system is an Atheist system, it encourages every atheist value. as i know it's not christian nor Islamic.

How can anyone be so cold-blooded and demand a comparison between killings of humans on a "qualitative" basis? Are you even human?


i didn't get your point, do you mean those who died in ABU-GHurayb/Goantanamo because of torturing??

#70 StopS

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:22 PM

because we don't believe in one life, we believe in a test life (which should contain difficulties) and another eternal life where the compensation, and the complete justice will be accomplished.

the mercy have a wider view,

Example:
i believe no one knows exactly what/where is the origin of AIDS virus? some tells it transferred from a tribe in middle Africa due to bad practices or from a kind of monkeys or whatever (which i don't agree on)....now if

if you can't see the USA and allies armies (in 100,000s with the most advanced destructive weapons) attacks the Moslems in Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan 1990s, Libya 1980s, Somalia 1990s, paid the Christian Ethiopia to

my question was about your justice concept here, is it done for Stalin who killed Millions/ caused millions to be handicapped/ forced transfer millions/.....ETC won't he pay a penny for each case?

you are right, they may be only 100,000s but guess what the occupying forces, USA, are the responsible to provide us with the real numbers, why they didn't??

the USA life style/laws are atheist systems, your education system is an Atheist system, it encourages every atheist value. as i know it's not christian nor Islamic.

i didn't get your point, do you mean those who died in ABU-GHurayb/Goantanamo because of torturing??



You will never understand reality.

#71 AHMAD_73

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:27 PM

You will never understand reality.


which is!!

#72 StopS

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:56 PM

which is!!


Do you really see a point in my explaining it?

Killing, no matter by whom, is wrong. There is only one single exception: self defense or in defense of a threat to your family.
A "test life" is a morally corrupt concept.
Logics is superior to nonsense.
A god with the attribute all-knowing (omniscience) does not require tests.
A god with the attribute all-merciful does not require tests.
A god arbitrarily killing Christians, Muslims, atheists, Hindus, Jews, Zoroastrians, Rastafarians, ...... does not deserve the attribute all-merciful.
The dead people in Haiti didn't even know the name Allah. How is that "a fair pre-warned punishment"?

What "specific kind of sins" deserves the death sentence? Is Allah jealous of human sex? Is sex the only thing on a gods mind??? Are you obsessed with this sex thing? What kind of "illegal sex" does a 9-year old have, to make it ok to kill this child?

You are a simple-minded individual who thinks a "sin" will be punished. And if your god does not punish it, well, then humans need to help out and punish this "sin" themselves.

You say that the US attacked Iraq. But you forget to mention why the US attacked Iraq. You forget to mention that a Muslim, Saddam Hussein, used the military power of his country to attack another Muslim country, Kuwait. Why are you forgetting this? Does this embarrass you? Which Muslim country stopped and punished Saddam Hussein when he killed 1000's of Muslims in his own country? Not one. But when the United Nations intervene you start crying.

Where is your justice concept? You are so sick in your head that you bring up Stalin without understanding the history. You don't understand anything. You don't understand atheists - but you hate them. You don't even know what an atheist is - but you hate them. You hate anything and everything that thinks differently than you. Because you don't think - you submit and follow.

#73 Holly

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:03 AM

you atheists have an intresting caracteristic, that is to bring paradise here on earth, you want here paradise on this earth, without pain, distatsers death and son on and on, but that is paradise after death.

God says in quran:

2:214 Or did you expect that you would enter Paradise, while the example of those who were before you came to you; they were stricken with adversity and hardship, and they were shaken until the messenger and those who believed with him said: "When is God's victory" Yes indeed, God's victory is near.

3:142 Or did you think that you would enter Paradise without God knowing those who would strive amongst you and knowing those who are patient


What is troubling with such a worldview is the allowance for brutality that characterizes muslim history. The view that life is cheap and disposable is a prescription for violence that destroys life. That dynamic is evident with the endless mass murders we see across the muslim world, all committed by those who find a holy mandate in the acts of insanity.

Rational people, however, have an excuse for their disagreement. They do not posit an authority granted them by omnipotent gods who bears the self assumed responsibility for informing them on who is to be “martyred” and who will receive rewards in some imagined afterlife for holy mass murder. In contrast, those who propose they are the bearers (and enforcers) of ill-defined moral absolutes do so from the conviction that those “moral absolutes” actually have been revealed by the gods. The fact that they disagree so widely on what those absolutes actually are, reflect negatively on their reality and it certainly reflects poorly on the competence of the revealer.



#74 andalusi

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:54 AM

What is troubling with such a worldview is the allowance for brutality that characterizes muslim history. The view that life is cheap and disposable is a prescription for violence that destroys life. That dynamic is evident with the endless mass murders we see across the muslim world, all committed by those who find a holy mandate in the acts of insanity.


whaaaaaaaaat are you talking about???? what mass murders in muslim world, do you smoke drugs or whaaaat???

#75 Ron Shirt

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:12 PM

Maybe this bit of history would help both sides here!

http://en.wikipedia....lad_the_Impaler

regards,

ron

#76 Holly

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:54 PM

whaaaaaaaaat are you talking about???? what mass murders in muslim world, do you smoke drugs or whaaaat???

You don't get out much, right?

#77 AHMAD_73

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:16 PM

Do you really see a point in my explaining it?

Killing, no matter by whom, is wrong. There is only one single exception: self defense or in defense of a threat to your family.
A "test life" is a morally corrupt concept.
Logics is superior to nonsense.
A god with the attribute all-knowing (omniscience) does not require tests.
A god with the attribute all-merciful does not require tests.
A god arbitrarily killing Christians, Muslims, atheists, Hindus, Jews, Zoroastrians, Rastafarians, ...... does not deserve the attribute all-merciful.
The dead people in Haiti didn't even know the name Allah. How is that "a fair pre-warned punishment"?


Tests and dificulties are to distinguish between the bad people and the good people, it also distinguish between this low (donia) life, and the eternal.
it remind people with the god appility on them so reduces their sins and that's better in the after life
those who dies in arbitrary accedents will be rewarded with some honor degree (a degree of shaheed) in the second life,
when the people sees the consequances of the sins, they will fled away from it.

Allah in no need of our deeds, we who need to pass the tests, and for good luck the same way to pass the tests is the logic and the matching way to our natural instinct, and the way that provide happiness and contentment.

What "specific kind of sins" deserves the death sentence? Is Allah jealous of human sex? Is sex the only thing on a gods mind??? Are you obsessed with this sex thing?


yes, Allah don't like sins, and every sane person will not like it unless he is brainwashed (someone may need to tell us do he accept his wife to do so, in front of him, and why??)
i just mentioned the consiquances of illegal sex as an example, while evry other sin have its bad consequances,
you can see your self, without a sharp limits humanity slides to the un-known. first accepting illegal sex and then legilizing it for the non-married which led to accept it to the married, then accepting homo-sexuality, then respecting the right of those who like to incest, (all of this withen 50 years) then......what????

What kind of "illegal sex" does a 9-year old have, to make it ok to kill this child?

to be punished in Islam you have to be mature and responsible about your actions
the punishment of the non-mohsan (who never married before) is 100 lashes in a public place
juess what, to prove the case we need to have 4 fair mature men witness who saw every detail in the sex process (private parts), which practically imposible.......the penalities in Islam are mainly for deterring

let me ask you, are you happy with the rate of such kind of sex, homosexuality, incest, AIDS,.....etc. in the western culture?

You are a simple-minded individual who thinks a "sin" will be punished. And if your god does not punish it, well, then humans need to help out and punish this "sin" themselves.


you are right

You say that the US attacked Iraq. But you forget to mention why the US attacked Iraq. You forget to mention that a Muslim, Saddam Hussein, used the military power of his country to attack another Muslim country, Kuwait. Why are you forgetting this? Does this embarrass you? Which Muslim country stopped and punished Saddam Hussein when he killed 1000's of Muslims in his own country? Not one. But when the United Nations intervene you start crying.


are you serious?? which war you are talking about??

1980s when Sadam was killing his people at the beginning of the 80s the western countries were his supporters, as they were for every Tyrant regiem in the world. they didn't open their mouths for his crimes at the time????why do you think
1990-1991 while he killed less than 1000 in occuping Kwait, the allied forces killed 100,000s every where in Iraq, distructing almost all the infrastructure, even after his surrender and withdrawal.
1991-2003 a strickt seige on Iraqi people, no thing to get into Iraq even medicine and childern milk, that led to the death of 100,000s of innocents. inspectors inspecting every house in Iraq revealing every secret and breaking evry indpendace.

2003, for stupid reason (as Collin Pawel declared later), the USA and Britain attacks the very weak country to kill 100,000s, and re-distruct evry infrastructure,.......................how can you justify this???

Where is your justice concept? You are so sick in your head that you bring up Stalin without understanding the history. You don't understand anything. You don't understand atheists - but you hate them. You don't even know what an atheist is - but you hate them. You hate anything and everything that thinks differently than you. Because you don't think - you submit and follow.


i don't hate any one, on the contrary, i respect every humanbeing.
why don't you answer the question where the justice is??
he was not an atheist, let's assume that. he was an "arrrukjhfh" which is a new belief, this man didn't believe in a second life where he will be accounted for his deeds, and so he did milions and milions of casualities. is it done for him, he willn't pay for that nor those, the oppressed will be compansated??

#78 StopS

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:50 PM

Tests and dificulties are to distinguish between the bad people and the good people, it also distinguish between this low (donia) life, and the eternal.


Sorry, but this is ridiculous. When confronted with reality you just pretend it does not exist. You have no arguments, you twist around history, invent numbers and generally just pretend that there is something wrong with everything and everybody outside of your deluded perception of your warped reality.
It is going nowhere and I just get frustrated, so let's stop this right here.

#79 AHMAD_73

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:07 PM

Sorry, but this is ridiculous. When confronted with reality you just pretend it does not exist. You have no arguments, you twist around history, invent numbers


when ever you reach the correct numbers plz, let me know

and generally just pretend that there is something wrong with everything and everybody outside of your deluded perception of your warped reality.


am I the one who said i care about any innocent soul, and when it reachs 100,000s of innocent moslem souls, you began to distort realities, as you can't bear the truth. you can't bear hearing it even!!

It is going nowhere and I just get frustrated, so let's stop this right here.


i like too,

have a nice day/night

#80 andalusi

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:28 AM



i think best evidence from nature that there most be creator

Intelligent Design, evidence of God's creation in Sperm and Bacteria - YouTube



What is more logical, my belief or atheistic belief ?

You believe as atheists that this engine created themselves and i believe that those natural engines have creator, so what is more logical here, of course my belief. beacuse how the hell can nature who dont have brain nor intelect put those 40 parts together in spermcells and bacteria, and gives us humans intelect. How can someone give something wich he does not possess in his own hands.

if you say evolution make it so, then explain to me what mechanism in evolution gave instructions to bacterias and spermcells in primordial state to join those 40 parts of engine

can you imagine that nature can join different parts in car engine to make it work? in other words how can nature think to use organic material to create a natural engine wich use fuel, wich is fructose.

Posted Image

so in this case, religios belief is more lgoical than atheistic belief.Posted Image


to come from this

Posted Image

to this
Posted Image

YOU NEED A CREATOR


BUT ATEHISTIC BELIEF WITH EVOLUTION IS

FROM THIS
Posted Image

TO THIS
Posted Image

NO CREATOR, YOU DONT NEED CREATOR, IT CREATES ITSELF

i think that i have prove visually who is more logical in this case