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Bbc: We'll Mock Jesus But Not Muhammad


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#1 missjupiter

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 07:53 AM

The head of the BBC, Mark Thompson, has admitted that the broadcaster would never mock Mohammed like it mocks Jesus.

He justified the astonishing admission of religious bias by suggesting that mocking Mohammed might have the “emotional force” of “grotesque child pornography”.

But Jesus is fair game because, he said, Christianity has broad shoulders and fewer ties to ethnicity.
Bias

Mr Thompson says the BBC would never have broadcast Jerry Springer The Opera – a controversial musical that mocked Jesus – if its target had been Mohammed.

He made the remarks in an interview for a research project at the University of Oxford.

Mr Thompson said: “The point is that for a Muslim, a depiction, particularly a comic or demeaning depiction, of the Prophet Mohammed might have the emotional force of a piece of grotesque child pornography.”
Insults

A BBC spokesman was unavailable for comment.

Last year former BBC news anchor Peter Sissons said Christians are “fair game” for insults at the corporation, whilst Muslims must not be offended.

Mr Sissons, whose memoirs were serialised in the Daily Mail, said: “Islam must not be offended at any price, although Christians are fair game because they do nothing about it if they are offended.”

The former presenter also said that staff damage their careers if they don’t follow the BBC’s mindset.

http://www.christian...-says-bbc-boss/


What does this say about freedom of expression, Western media, Muslims, and Christians?

#2 ala'adin

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 08:07 AM

Why should any religion or belief be open to attack or ridicule? Is that what freedom of expression is, to be able to insult people for what they believe in?

#3 Ron Shirt

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 08:31 AM

Well there is the point of view that if their faith was truly strong then they would be mature enough not to be offended and certainly not react violently as Muslims have been known to do.
As the old saying goes: "Stcks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me"

salaam,

ron

#4 ala'adin

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 12:56 PM

It matters not about the strength in ones faith, If someone is mocking something or someone that you love then its quite simply not right.

As for the old saying, there are so many studies that show that verbal/emotional abuse has more of an effect on people then physical abuse.

#5 Ron Shirt

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:01 PM

It matters not about the strength in ones faith, If someone is mocking something or someone that you love then its quite simply not right.

As for the old saying, there are so many studies that show that verbal/emotional abuse has more of an effect on people then physical abuse.


I think it's sometimes a fine line between 'making fun of' and mockery. The first at its best is simply light hearted joking (and I personally can't see why anyone should think that they are above that). The second, mockery has some unpleasant connotations attached to it, i.e. it tends to be malicious and thereby verges on what they call 'hate speech' at the moment in the UK.

I'm certain that God does not get angry or feel 'offended' as if he were a human being does He? Ideas do not suffer hurt or take offence do they?

regards,

ron

#6 Scotia

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:09 PM

Can we expect to see muslims being extra carefull not to offend people of other faiths or people with no faith in the supernatural?

#7 ala'adin

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:45 PM

Ron, regardless of whether its meant as light hearted or plain mockery, people need to think about what they say as it can have ramifications. If its said between friends thats a private issue between them, but when something is said and spread by the media different people will respond differently and if it means banning things that could offend people then I am for it. I do not agree with the double standard though it should apply across the board.

Why is that people feel that is should be okay to make fun of anyone's belief? have we lost our compassion towards fellow humans?

Scotia- ofcourse we should I posted this hadith the other day-

The Prophet (SAWS) said

"Shall I tell you who is kept away from Hell and from whom Hell is kept away?" He then said "From everyone who is gentle and kind, approachable and of easy disposition"

[Tirmidhi, 1315]

Ofcourse there should be dialouge about faith but at all times it should remain respectful.

#8 Scotia

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:56 PM

except for scientologists, think we can all agree there batshit crazy? :P

#9 Ron Shirt

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 05:24 PM

Ron, regardless of whether its meant as light hearted or plain mockery, people need to think about what they say as it can have ramifications. If its said between friends thats a private issue between them, but when something is said and spread by the media different people will respond differently and if it means banning things that could offend people then I am for it. I do not agree with the double standard though it should apply across the board.

Why is that people feel that is should be okay to make fun of anyone's belief? have we lost our compassion towards fellow humans?

Scotia- ofcourse we should I posted this hadith the other day-

The Prophet (SAWS) said

"Shall I tell you who is kept away from Hell and from whom Hell is kept away?" He then said "From everyone who is gentle and kind, approachable and of easy disposition"

[Tirmidhi, 1315]

Ofcourse there should be dialouge about faith but at all times it should remain respectful.


Why should it be that people feel that it is OK to make fun of someone's belief? Because we (hopefully) live in a society where such a thing as free speech exists. There are too many pompous, self righteous and self important people in the world, why shouldn't they see how they appear to those who don't share their beliefs?
There are laws regarding slander and libel as I think there rightly should be, but basically there are far too many people who take things far too seriously.
Essentially there are the 'banners' and repressers and then there are the libertarians.
Just look at some people the wrong way and they claim to have been 'offended'. Why doesn't society loosen up a little?
Excuding the self-righteous utopian Muslims of course. They might be offended.


ron

#10 ParadiseLost

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 08:17 PM

Sorry but with rights come responsibilities. We can't go around demanding rights and use them to hurt others - we have responsibilities to use our rights correctly.

For example in Germany and France neo-nazi propaganda is banned but in the US it is not mainly due to the freedom of speech in the Constitution of US. Does that mean freedom of speech does not exist in Germany and France? No, but the way they see it is that things like that hurt society and freedom of speech cannot be used to do that. I mean it is all great to talk about freedom of speech but in reality other things matter too. When freedom of speech is used to target a particular group by hurting them then that is not good and I do not want to live in a society who views this as acceptable.

If someone uses their freedom of speech to promote racism is this right?

Promoting an individualistic way of thinking without consideration for the collective is not good for society.

#11 Ron Shirt

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:32 PM

Sorry but with rights come responsibilities. We can't go around demanding rights and use them to hurt others - we have responsibilities to use our rights correctly.

For example in Germany and France neo-nazi propaganda is banned but in the US it is not mainly due to the freedom of speech in the Constitution of US. Does that mean freedom of speech does not exist in Germany and France? No, but the way they see it is that things like that hurt society and freedom of speech cannot be used to do that. I mean it is all great to talk about freedom of speech but in reality other things matter too. When freedom of speech is used to target a particular group by hurting them then that is not good and I do not want to live in a society who views this as acceptable.

If someone uses their freedom of speech to promote racism is this right?

Promoting an individualistic way of thinking without consideration for the collective is not good for society.


I'm sorry but I think you've got this all wrong.
Immediately you start talking about 'extremely serious matters'.
For a start off I would say 'we' aren't 'going around demanding human rights'. I would say that human rights self-evidentely exist like your Qur'an perhaps. How would others 'be hurt' (poor dears) because someone else doesn't actually agree with their world perspective. Is that it?
So what would you consider to be 'our; rights and where do these rights come from?

I wasn't speaking of serious 'hate speech' as I say. Many Muslims, it seems feel they have the right to deny the so called 'Holocaust'. If they address this point of view to particular people then I think that's their perogative, but if they just spout it about off of the tops of their heads then it might just cause those poor souls who disbelieve in Hitler's 'master plan' to doubt that that was what he was up to, amongst other things. These things must be forbidden.

Again, you seem to consider that 'malicious intent' is what is behind this sort of thing (freedom of speech). But this is typical of Muslims (at least as seen on this forum, it would seem), whom I think are sufferring from paranoid delusions caused by their lack of credibility in the world and ,indeed inside their own minds.

'Racism' is a quite modern concept, in my view. But in the way this appears to be used in the Qur'an it is simply an expression of the equality of all who wish to come to Islam, and I wouldn't want to fault that in any way. Regarding what a large number of Muslims appear to think about 'The Jews' is quite another matter, of course.

In the real world, I don't think it realistic that we must, should or even can, take into consideration for the 'collective' in society. Another parallel with the so-far observably unworkable communistic systems of this planet and Islam itself.

regards,

ron

#12 ParadiseLost

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:25 PM

It is about demanding rights - because once Muslims say this type of mocking hurts them then the other side are saying we have a right to free speech.

And why not bring hate speech into it? What is the difference? More than 1 billion Muslims believe in the Prophet Muhammad pbuh - by mocking him of course you are going to hurt people. Many Muslims love the prophet more than their own parents so of course they will be hurt when someone mocks him. And I also don't believe that mocking Jesus pbuh is right either. It is a serious matter - just because a lot of the western media industry has no religious values does not mean the rest of the world should bow down to their command. There are still people who follow Christianity and Islam and make up a large % of the world.

And this is not about paranoia Ron. You might think it is ok to mock because you don't particularly have the same faith as we do. And this is not just about people talking amongst themselves this is about the bbc who prepare scripts for their shows to be broadcast to a population whom include Muslims and Christians.

The collective is a really important value in Islam and other eastern cultures. There is nothing wrong with taking into account the feelings of others.

You seem to support mocking Jesus pbuh and Muhammad pbuh - but tell me why? I mean what do you get out of it? Is there something about that which makes it more comical than other jokes? I am interested in knowing the reasoning behind it rather than the 'i have a right to free speech so I can say what I want' answer.

#13 Scotia

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:36 PM

Mocking some1 isnt hate speech.

#14 missjupiter

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 06:58 AM

I agree, mocking someone is not hate speech. I do also agree that the media should be more sensitive and Muslims should take a chill pill if and when their religion gets mocked or insulted.

#15 ala'adin

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:40 AM

I agree, mocking someone is not hate speech. I do also agree that the media should be more sensitive and Muslims should take a chill pill if and when their religion gets mocked or insulted.


So do you then think its okay that people can go around mocking and insulting others? Why should people not respond to when they are mocked or insulted?

#16 Ron Shirt

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:50 AM

I don't think we're talking about people 'going round', as in mocking people in the street or anything like that. I wasn't speaking of 'mockery' anyway, as I pointed out there is a line between mockery and making fun of in a neutral sort of a way. Most people where I come from, although they may not particularly like it, would take it in their stride as a bit of harmless 'ribbing'. It often helps clear the air as well.
But I was mainly thinking of in books, films, on TV and so on.
When any group think they have a monopoly on things like this then they tend to become arrogant.
Is this all about power, do you think?

ron

#17 ParadiseLost

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:53 AM

How can you be neutral when you mock Prophet Jesus and Prophet Muhammad peace be upon them?

And you still didn't answer my question about the reasoning behind it that makes it so much more funny and what you get out of it?

#18 Ron Shirt

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:04 AM

How can you be neutral when you mock Prophet Jesus and Prophet Muhammad peace be upon them?

And you still didn't answer my question about the reasoning behind it that makes it so much more funny and what you get out of it?


I'm not speaking of mockery, as I've mentioned twice now. To good naturedly make fun of isn't to mock which implies something malicious.
Also I have in fact already explained the reasons for 'light-heartedly criticising' - if you will - those who appear self-importantly pompous and who hold what to others are ridiculous beliefs. Do Muslims and Christians really want or need to be humoured like cretinous half-wits? Wouldn't this be far more 'insulting' than to treat them as equals like the rest of us? What makes them think they are so special and superior?

ron

#19 ala'adin

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:49 AM

No one thinks they are superior (well some might wrongly do).

as I pointed out there is a line between mockery and making fun of in a neutral sort of a way. Most people where I come from, although they may not particularly like it, would take it in their stride as a bit of harmless 'ribbing'.


How is there a neutral way to make fun of something? If it upsets someone or if they dont like what was said, for the sake of "fun" is it worth it?

Also do you then consider it normal to go around making fun of what your "equals" believe in or love? Could that not start off something more sinister?

#20 Ron Shirt

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:59 PM

No one thinks they are superior (well some might wrongly do).



How is there a neutral way to make fun of something? If it upsets someone or if they dont like what was said, for the sake of "fun" is it worth it?

Also do you then consider it normal to go around making fun of what your "equals" believe in or love? Could that not start off something more sinister?


OK have it your own way. If people have a grim, miserable attitude towards life and are hypersensitive about something then I agree: they should either be left alone or turn their televisions off etc.
I wasn't aware that the phrase 'lighten up' didn't exist for religious people.

sallam

ron