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Why Was The Us Military Teaching 'total War' On Islam?


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#1 ala'adin

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 06:43 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk...canada-18030105

I was quite suprised at this...

#2 ParadiseLost

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:47 AM

it's sick,..and how people could actually sit there like sheep and not object to it is crazy

#3 AHMAD_73

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:59 AM

unbelievable!!!

is that was in the middle ages or 2000s?!

can this happen to any other religion even, rates' worshippers?!

who/where are the controlers and monitors of such educational staff in a modern country?!

lawyers, is that considered a "hate crime"?!

#4 SaracenSoldier

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 09:58 AM

I was just about to post this!


The U.S. military taught its future leaders that a “total war” against the world’s 1.4 billion Muslims would be necessary to protect America from Islamic terrorists, according to documents obtained by Danger Room. Among the options considered for that conflict: using the lessons of “Hiroshima” to wipe out whole cities at once, targeting the “civilian population wherever necessary.”




International laws protecting civilians in wartime are “no longer relevant,” Dooley continues. And that opens the possibility of applying “the historical precedents of Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki” to Islam’s holiest cities, and bringing about “Mecca and Medina['s] destruction.”




http://www.wired.com...otal-war-islam/

#5 SaracenSoldier

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 09:58 AM



#6 Nile_Salafy

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 04:49 PM

I don't see it surprising from what's been going for the past years. But would the timing of showing this have some political meaning ?

#7 Nightingale

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 07:21 PM

You know what...this kind of thing is what just really makes me wonder about some people. I know a member from my church that has attended there within the last two years...I'd be interested in seeing when this was approved to be taught.

Suffice to say, it makes me sick to my stomach that people can even contemplate this...

#8 Ron Shirt

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 08:42 PM

It's simple, they thought Islam had declared war on them after 9/11.That's what Bush thought and that's what a lot of people bought. Not rocket science as they say!

ron

#9 Nightingale

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 08:48 PM

Whether you agree with G.W. Bush or not...he did go out and specifically say that Islam was a religion of peace. Yes he made numerous mistakes over the course of his presidency following 9/11 I would venture to say, but at least give him credit that he made that declaration. As for his personal beliefs, I can't answer on those.

But even with that said, there is NO reason whatsoever to advocate genocide. I'm sorry but I would never be able to agree with such. And I happen to think most people feel the same way. Fear can do weird things to people, but committing murder on that scale is...well, the word I could think of is abominable.

#10 Aligarr

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:00 PM

This subject was taught in one class , in one school , by one teacher . This was not approved by the US military and the class disbanded upon discovery of it . This is not the view of the President , nor of the Pentagon nor of any US Military Leader .

#11 Nightingale

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:11 PM

This subject was taught in one class , in one school , by one teacher . This was not approved by the US military and the class disbanded upon discovery of it . This is not the view of the President , nor of the Pentagon nor of any US Military Leader .


I agree. However, the fact that this class went on for at least some time is what is disturbing. I applaud General Dempsey for moving quickly to stop it as soon as he knew about it. No, the issue is the people who took the class and never said anything as much as it is the teacher. That's my opinion.

#12 Aligarr

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 01:03 PM

Apparently ONE did take exception an reported it .As for the others who didn't . that's the way it is in the military .The possibility of retaliation by their superior officer teaching the class , not knowing the proper channels to go thru regarding the class , and simply because about 3 -4 hundred officers in total sat thru the class , does not mean in any way they agreed with it , or were willing to conduct themselves according to it .
The man pictured in the 5th post of this thread, did far more damage with what HE TAUGHT and WHO he influenced - namely that Major who opened fire on unarmed soldiers and civilians at Fort Hood . I believe his name was Alawi ....he is dead now , victim of a drone attack .

#13 ParadiseLost

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:37 PM

It reflects the political culture - people follow the crowd and do not speak out against wrong things. Its worrying how people think that Nazi Germany is something of the past and that people are no longer the puppets of their governments... Allah however encourages us to always speak out about injustices because sometimes even the majority are not right also sometimes it takes one person to speak out to get others to speak out

#14 Ron Shirt

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:54 PM

It reflects the political culture - people follow the crowd and do not speak out against wrong things. Its worrying how people think that Nazi Germany is something of the past and that people are no longer the puppets of their governments... Allah however encourages us to always speak out about injustices because sometimes even the majority are not right also sometimes it takes one person to speak out to get others to speak out


Yes I think you're absolutely right, but it's not just in the sphere of political culture - it's everywhere in society. I think I've mentioned the analogy of sheep more than once on this forum.
But I have to say that I have never yet seen a Muslim disagree with another Muslim, during the 7 or so years I've been on this forum. When it comes to differences everyone seems to 'close ranks', it seems to me.
Hence my recent post regarding trying to establish our common human characteristics.

Regards,

Ron

Edited by Ron Shirt, 23 May 2012 - 04:55 PM.


#15 ParadiseLost

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:15 PM

But I have to say that I have never yet seen a Muslim disagree with another Muslim, during the 7 or so years I've been on this forum. When it comes to differences everyone seems to 'close ranks', it seems to me.
Hence my recent post regarding trying to establish our common human characteristics.

Regards,

Ron

I definitely speak out if someone says something that is against Islam or they are talking in a rude way to another member so I do not think you are speaking for everyone there.

#16 Ron Shirt

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:39 PM

I definitely speak out if someone says something that is against Islam or they are talking in a rude way to another member so I do not think you are speaking for everyone there.


Yes, thanks. Speaking in a rude way is obviously wrong. Some people tolerate it more than others I think and possibly those are people who are rude themselves. But if you analyse it, often I think rudeness is actually a result of frustration with not being able to communicate with another human who has a very diferrent perspective on the world.

regards,

ron

#17 Aligarr

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 06:29 PM

There seems to be a miscommunication here , what Ron Shirt said , atleast as I understood it , was that muslims never disageee with muslims , and that to be directed at words or action of muslims .It had nothing to do with defaming Islam or being rude .And he's mostly correct , for when it comes to man's inhumanity to man ,many muslims portray that as a ONE WAY street . That is claiming for themselves to be the victims and never the perpetrators Paradise Lost ,. you can not attribute the words of one man in the military , or even several , to be the view of politics in general in the US .

Secondly , Paradise Lost , you can not compare the notion of Total War with the intentional genocide that the Nazis engaged in . The Nazis were not at war with the Jews for one thing , they singled them out for systyematic extermination under any and all circumstances .The conept of Total War involves the strategy that the enemy will be destroyed with concerns for collateral damage becoming only a secondary consideration ,and this notion comes into being when an enemy is entrenched among , or can not be distinguished from civilians . Such an idea , is not , nor has not been held by the US military or the overewheming majority of US Politicians , least of all the American People , regarding the present War on Terror if you will , or the War on Al Queda as Obama has specified . That is not to say innocents have not been collateral damage since 9/11 , for it has ,BY BOTH SIDES .All I can say about that is , that it is not policy , nor was it intentional .However , I cannot say that regarding Al Queda and other groups who have out of purpose and for effect , have deliberately targeted innocents .

#18 Nightingale

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 07:03 PM

There seems to be a miscommunication here , what Ron Shirt said , atleast as I understood it , was that muslims never disageee with muslims , and that to be directed at words or action of muslims .It had nothing to do with defaming islam or being rude .And he's mostly correct , for when it comes to man's inhumanity to man ,many muslims portray that as a ONE WAY street . That is claiming for themselves to be the victims and never the perpetrators Paradise Lost ,. you can not attribute the words of one man in the military , or even several , to be the view of politics in general in the US .

Secondly , Paradise Lost , you can not compare the notion of Total War with the intentional genocide that the Nazis engaged in . The Nazis were not at war with the Jews for one thing , they singled them out for systyematic extermination under any and all circumstances .The conept of Total War involves the strategy that the enemy will be destroyed with concerns for collateral damage becoming only a secondary consideration ,and this notion comes into being when an enemy is entrenched among , or can not be distinguished from civilians . Such an idea , is not , nor has not been held by the US military or the overewheming majority of US Politicians , least of all the American People , regarding the present War on Terror if you will , or the War on Al Queda as Obama has specified . That is not to say innocents have not been collateral damage since 9/11 , for it has ,BY BOTH SIDES .All I can say about that is , that it is not policy , nor was it intentional .However , I cannot say that regarding Al Queda and other groups who have out of purpose and for effect , have deliberately targeted innocents .


As a non-Muslim, I will quickly say this, as it is not my intention to upset anyone by speaking about something that has nothing to do with Islam. However, living in the US, especially the southern US...all I ever hear on the radio, television and in person is how everyone is waging a war against Christianity. Some (most definitely not all) Christians even get violent and threatening about it. They claim they are the only victims. So one can take it with a grain of salt in my opinion. Muslims would certainly not be the only ones to claim victimhood. (I'm speaking as a Christian in this instance so please don't just throw away what I say.)

Now, onto the other issue. I'm sure that ParadiseLost can speak for herself on this, but as a student of history, I'd also like to speak up. Total war, in this case the specific targeting of civilians, IS genocide. It was when the Nazis committed it, yet the US is just as guilty of it in the past, as are many nations. The goal of the firebombing of Dresden was to kill as many civilians as possible to make the Nazis sue for peace. The goal of the Atomic bomb being used against Japan was the same there. It doesn't matter what religion a person is, murder and genocide are still wrong. And anyone who says otherwise proves their lack of humanity in my mind. Yes innocents will be killed in wars, sadly there is little that can fix that 100% as one of my cousins attests to. But accidents can happen regrettably, whereas killing under these teachings wouldn't be an accident, would they?

I think that before people go on about the plank in someone else's eye, they need to remove the speck of sawdust from their own. And my apologies if I crossed over the line in any way.

#19 Aligarr

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 08:19 PM

It is not the strategy of Total War to engage in "Genocide " , the concept involves precisely what I stated , destroying the enemy at all costs regardless of collateral damage . Now if you wish to discuss WW2 , [not the present conflict ] , then yes you are correct,the strategy Total War was indeed practiced by Japan , the Allies and Germany . However the term "genocide " does not apply , except in the case of the Japanese slaughter of Chinese , and certain populations ofPacific Islanders , and in the case of the Germans murdering 6 million Jews . The only thing that comes close to that genocide practiced by the Nazis was the Case of the Kmer Rouge in Cambodia , The Sudan and the Turks against the Armenians . These took place NOT in the heat of battle , nor in the context of a military strategy , but by strict ideological or religious agenda .
Comparisons to the Nazis are frequently applied LOOSELY and incorrectly, with political or ideological agendas against opponents or antagonists but in all cases are completely without merit .

#20 ParadiseLost

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:57 PM

There seems to be a miscommunication here , what Ron Shirt said , atleast as I understood it , was that muslims never disageee with muslims , and that to be directed at words or action of muslims .It had nothing to do with defaming islam or being rude

There is not a miscommunication - if someone does something that is against islamic principles then I speak out against it and in my opinion other muslims do too. Saying never makes you seem you are very certain - there are definitely muslims who will correct other muslims and in fact there is a hadith in which the prophet told us to correct the behaviour of other muslims if we see a problem because they are a mirror of us. Let me get back to you with the actual hadith later if you don't mind.

Secondly , Paradise Lost , you can not compare the notion of Total War with the intentional genocide that the Nazis engaged in .

Firstly I didn't mention genocide so that is a presumption on your part. My analogy with Nazi Germany was about the propaganda and how they used the media to get people to conform to their ideology. Maybe you don't see it but I and many other Muslims see how Muslims are depicted in most western news sources in a very negative way and for most people they don't question what they read. Also the narrative of the Bush administration was very negative towards Muslims - for example even Laura Bush believed the invasion of Iraq/afghan would free women - freeing women from the burqa was the narrative a lot of the time and it made the burqa appear as the symbol of oppression - yet even many years later the women still wear the burqa because they never wanted to take it off in the first place.