4 replies to this topic

[Luckee]

It seems that making it forbidden to idolize is useless and even backfires. This makes it impossible for a person to even discuss or discover that he is idolizing! The ego will just defend itself. "no, I worship only Allah! ... Oh my... This pain really hurts. Pain u Akbar! Me idolizing? Nah, its forbidden. So no. Even if I did idolize, I automaticly pretend that I don't. We can't tall about this! Sshhh, the muslims are coming!"


What I think the prophet ment is, "it is impossible, not possible to be allowed, to worship anything beyond Allah" it is not forbidden. It is impossible! An illusion! Insanity! Self denial! Disbelieve!

[Nightingale]

It is forbidden to worship idols, not only in Islam but in Judaism and Christianity. It is a core of the Ten Commandments given to Moses. Idolatry is elevating anything to God's status, and yes it can even include churches, pastors, leaders, countries (flags) and so forth.

Now that isn't to say that you are supposed to disrespect those things. But, you do not worship them. Worship is reserved for God, not anything of man.

[Luckee]

I know that you know this.

Is it not possible that worshipping idols is perhaps "NOT POSSIBLE" ?
The idols are not even there to be worshipped!

Why do we assume that worship outside Allah is possible for us human beings?

When jesus said, or whoever said "thou shalt not kill" why do people feel so arrogant and bent the words around to "I shall kill, but it is forbidden to kill"? Why can't we believe that killing does not exist? Why can't we trust in the law that is given to us! A law that cannot be broken is a true unchanging law! Not a freakin commandment or whatever that means. It literally is talking about an eternal law.

"you cannot worship idols"
"you cannot kill"

If you look at it from that perspective. Killing and idolizing is simply a denial of ones own being! Why do we have to make it even more complicate and denie the denial of our own being and create even deeper cycles of insanity?

[Nightingale]

Jesus said it is not right to murder, just like Moses did. Be careful about throwing out the 'shalt not kill' line otherwise. God also said that we should not lie. Yes that can be VERY difficult, but it is still something God has commanded.

Just because something is difficult doesn't mean that it is permissible to allow. And yes it IS possible to not worship idols.

[Luckee]

I'm not saying it is difficult to lie, steal, kill or worship idols.

What I'm suggesting is, is that these things are impossible. They are not allowed by Allah. They are illusions. The thought of identification with them is an indicator if self denial. You can use the mercy of Allah and compassion, to create the experience for yourself of a hidden truth. Yet, in reality, it is only an illusion, because Allah does not allow lies.

It is not right to lie, because there is no such thing as hiding the truth. It does not exist. Allah is not a judgemental God who allows people to lie, steal, kill, and then forbids it, then punishes people for it. If we believe that, then we are creating God in our own image... Thats not the case, in my view. I rather think that Allah does not allow people to kill, steal, lie or worship idols. He creates these laws. It is impossible to break them. You can only denie your own being and think you break these laws and think there is no Allah.

Let me give an analogy:
A child looks at the mirror, angry. He doesn't like what he sees. He takes out a weapon and breaks the mirror. He thinks the person in the mirror is now dead. The person in the mirror is gone... The cycle of insanity has been initiated, self denial has happened, seperation with the self, fragmentation, exclusion, etc.