29 replies to this topic

[StopS]

I read/hear this word so often and never quite know what it means. Can anyone fill this with a definition so I can understand it it?

What I know so far:
Islam is a system, complete with built-in social, political, legal and economic concepts and systems for a state as well as the religion.
A phobia is an unwarranted fear.

pho·bi·a (fb-)
n.
1. A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and re######urance that it is not dangerous.
2. A strong fear, dislike, or aversion.

Psychiatry an abnormal intense and irrational fear of a given situation, organism, or object
[from Greek phobos fear]

phobia - an anxiety disorder characterized by extreme and irrational fear of simple things or social situations; "phobic disorder is a general term for all phobias"

Looking at the usage however, this does not make any sense. So what is the information the usage of this term is trying to convey?
Thanks.

[danieldemol]

I personally don't agree with one part of your definition in part 2. A person can have a strong dislike of something without fearing it.

[StopS]

I personally don't agree with one part of your definition in part 2. A person can have a strong dislike of something without fearing it.

Does that mean you agree with all of the rest?
These are not my, but commonly found definitions.
Now that you mention it, I agree with you. I would not call a dislike a phobia. An unfounded, emotionally based dislike, yes, that would be a phobia for me.

[danieldemol]

It seems reasonable to me, however I must remind you that as a person who is not nominally Muslim, I may be a little removed from your intended target audience

[StopS]

Strange. Considering I see the word so often I am a bit surprised that nobody is able to volunteer an opinion.

[Nightingale]

Islamophobia...in the United States at least is the continual denigration of a religion by media, public officials and others based off either incorrect or unfounded beliefs.

There is a group that is dedicated to Islamophobia here in the US that is STILL pressing to try and make it a federal crime for Muslims to be able to pray and live their lives. Check out David Yerushalmi if you don't believe me. Also look at the Dove World Outreach Church in Florida (who are as nuts as the Westboro Baptist Church).

[Wesley]

Islamophobia, as other fears, reside only in a small minority. However, most people do fear being forced to live in a way they do not desire. The problem is, the way God wants us to live does run contrary to our basic desires.

[StopS]

Islamophobia...in the United States at least is the continual denigration of a religion by media, public officials and others based off either incorrect or unfounded beliefs.

There is a group that is dedicated to Islamophobia here in the US that is STILL pressing to try and make it a federal crime for Muslims to be able to pray and live their lives. Check out David Yerushalmi if you don't believe me. Also look at the Dove World Outreach Church in Florida (who are as nuts as the Westboro Baptist Church).

What is "continual denigration of a religion by media"?
David Yerushalmi seems to be someone who does not want Shariah replacing the US constitution, which I can understand.
The Dove World Outreach Church claims there is only 1 god and it is their god. And I laughed about their childish rants. Oh boy, are they fundamentalist crazy or what?

So which of the 3 explains the contents of the word Islamophobia?

[StopS]

Islamophobia, as other fears, reside only in a small minority. However, most people do fear being forced to live in a way they do not desire. The problem is, the way God wants us to live does run contrary to our basic desires.

Am I reading this right? There IS a component of fear? Of what?

Why would a god create people the way he does not want them to behave?

[Nightingale]

All three are examples of Islamophobia as it exists. As for David Yerushalmi, none of the Muslims I talk to here in the US are pushing for Shariah over the Constitution. If you read his and other anti-Islamic people such as Geller and her partner...they want to make it a crime to be Muslim. Which violates the Constitution they say they wish to uphold. It's cl######ic hypocrisy.

The MSM (mainstream media...i.e. CNN, NBC, ABC, Fox News)...loves to trumpet stories that attack Islam. Anything that might possibly be terrorist-related, they come out and attack Islam, when oftentimes, there's a perfectly normal explanation without that. But do you see them apologize for demonizing a religion? No, I don't. To be fair, during Christmas and Easter they tend to attack Christianity too.

[StopS]

All three are examples of Islamophobia as it exists. As for David Yerushalmi, none of the Muslims I talk to here in the US are pushing for Shariah over the Constitution. If you read his and other anti-Islamic people such as Geller and her partner...they want to make it a crime to be Muslim. Which violates the Constitution they say they wish to uphold. It's cl######ic hypocrisy.

The MSM (mainstream media...i.e. CNN, NBC, ABC, Fox News)...loves to trumpet stories that attack Islam. Anything that might possibly be terrorist-related, they come out and attack Islam, when oftentimes, there's a perfectly normal explanation without that. But do you see them apologize for demonizing a religion? No, I don't. To be fair, during Christmas and Easter they tend to attack Christianity too.

Whoa, that's too fast for me.

David Yerushalmi does not want Shariah in the US. So if no Muslims want Shariah in the US it is a non-issue. And this would be the unwarranted fear of Shariah, i.e. Shariahphobia or Sharobia

"Geller and her partner". I remember the name. Are these the crazy couple who are constantly drumming on about what a threat Islam is for society? Who went against the Masjid in New York? If I remember correctly, they call the people's attention to the violence in what Muslims are doing in the name of Islam and show what is being used to brainwash youths. Is that a phobia? I am not aware of any rants against individual Muslims - but I speak under correction here. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

That is what news channels do. Report the news. And the more gory the better. So if no Muslim would cause any damage, what attack would they launch? Is there any unwarranted attention on Islam and Muslims in your opinion? I don't think that a person blowing themselves up has any "perfectly normal explanation". Is this a phobia? Not really.

Are the media "demonizing a religion"? Am I for "demonizing a religion"? No. A person can believe whatever they want. But remember that Islam is not just another religion. It is a system, a way of life and a worldview. With a religion promising eternal life in an afterlife. When Christians used to bash each other's heads in in Ireland and use terrorism and inhumane bombs the media was full of it. The same was true of the ANC in South Africa or ETA in Spain or RAF in Germany. So I don't see any unfair treatment of Islam in the media. And I would not call it a phobia either.

I was only ~70 meters away when a Muslim blew himself or herself up to knock down an entrance gate. I was only a few meters away when they came running into the hotel, screaming Allahu akbar, shooting everyone in sight. I ducked and got away. Is that reality or a phobia?

[Wesley]

Why would a god create people the way he does not want them to behave?

You might just have to ask God why He did something. I seem unable to answer on His behalf. My personal answer is most people are born with the ability to choose how they behave. Free will is amazing like that. For those without the capacity to choose, such as related to various developmental or medical issues, I believe they are not judged the same way. God created us exactly how we are to be. It is up to us to accept or not.

The other question I will not answer. I don't see a productive path that question can lead to.

[StopS]

You might just have to ask God why He did something. I seem unable to answer on His behalf. God created us exactly how we are to be. It is up to us to accept or not.

The other question I will not answer. I don't see a productive path that question can lead to.

Ah ok. I just saw you say: "the way God wants us to live", so I thought you know more about why things are the way they are.

But then again you say: "God created us exactly how we are to be". How do you know that if you don't know anything about why something happens? Strange. You claim that I am "created" exactly according to plan - but my desires are the opposite of this plan.

The questions you don't want to answer were regarding your vague statements which I could not understand. But if you don't want to clarify, that's cool.

[Nightingale]

Free will is a great thing. As soon as you take away free will, it cheapens the meaning. So yes, you were created and you were created to be yourself. No two people are exactly alike for a reason. And whether you like it or not, Allah wants us to call all of us to his truth, but it is up to you to make that decision.

Now as to the issue. Yes, some Muslims have done terrible things. Some atheists have too, and some Christians and some Jews and so on. The mistake everyone makes is lumping everyone in together, instead you should treat people on an individual basis...

[Perseveranze]

I personally don't agree with one part of your definition in part 2. A person can have a strong dislike of something without fearing it.

Well in this context, it sounds like it's balancing towards bigotry.

Edited by Perseveranze, 27 June 2012 - 09:17 PM.

[danieldemol]

Please explain Perseveranze

Edited by danieldemol, 27 June 2012 - 09:48 PM.

[StopS]

Free will is a great thing. As soon as you take away free will, it cheapens the meaning. So yes, you were created and you were created to be yourself. No two people are exactly alike for a reason. And whether you like it or not, Allah wants us to call all of us to his truth, but it is up to you to make that decision.

Now as to the issue. Yes, some Muslims have done terrible things. Some atheists have too, and some Christians and some Jews and so on. The mistake everyone makes is lumping everyone in together, instead you should treat people on an individual basis...

Haha, sorry, but I find "free will" a total misnomer. What is the opposite of "free will"? Is there a higher degree or lesser degree of "free will"? All it is, is saying if I want to raise my left arm and change my mind and lift the right arm, I can and I do.

I was "created"? How do you know that? Using what process? What are the tools and the markings which point to this?

How can I be "created to be myself" when my basic desires are the opposite of what they should be?

I think you are making a fundamental error here. Religions provide a social backdrop, provide the codex of conduct, the rituals and behavioural patterns. The individual is the opposite.

I treat people as individuals and don't care about race or creed and take them as they come and respect only what behaviour shows me about their personality.

[Wesley]

Haha, sorry, but I find "free will" a total misnomer. What is the opposite of "free will"? Is there a higher degree or lesser degree of "free will"? All it is, is saying if I want to raise my left arm and change my mind and lift the right arm, I can and I do.

I was "created"? How do you know that? Using what process? What are the tools and the markings which point to this?

How can I be "created to be myself" when my basic desires are the opposite of what they should be?

I think you are making a fundamental error here. Religions provide a social backdrop, provide the codex of conduct, the rituals and behavioural patterns. The individual is the opposite.

I treat people as individuals and don't care about race or creed and take them as they come and respect only what behaviour shows me about their personality.

It seems you are searching for a lot of answers, or at least asking a lot of questions. StopS, what do you believe the answers to be? It might create a focal point.

On the created portion.. if you can point out where scientific law has brought the discussion, please do. It will be very amazing to learn about why there is life and what motivated the elements to become alive. It will also be very amazing to learn about we came to be as we are, despite the laws of physics working against the development of more complex lifeforms. It will also be amazing to see where all this matter and energy came from. Something cannot come from nothing, meaning it all existed in some form. Once certain theories become actual laws, we might have very good answers for everyone to believe in and I suspect science and religion really will not differ, despite the perception it should.

I have no idea what all the questions you just asked have to deal with the definition of Islamophobia, but feel free to tie it in somehow.

[skydiver2]

Just a note here:
'Free will' does not actually exist for the vast majority who live in the world today; it is only a concept theoretically experienced by the very rich. Most people are simply involved with their families. With perhaps a little bit on the side.
Plus the fact of the context within which people speak of 'free will' on these types of forum, is: generally the freedom to explore any spiritual path which seems to appeal to the individual concerned. But as I've mentioned this takes the form of a 'spiritual calling' which, actually is quite rare.
Get used to it, we are not sheep.

Salaam,

Sky

Edited by skydiver2, 27 June 2012 - 10:19 PM.

[Nightingale]

Sky, you made my point, we are NOT sheep, we have the power to choose, which is what I call free will. So thank you for proving my point.