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How The Bible Led Me To Islam


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#1 SaracenSoldier

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:29 AM

How the Bible Led Me to Islam: The Story of a Former Christian Youth Minister - Joshua Evans




#2 sereihan

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 02:45 AM

There are verses in the Quran that recommended Christians and the Jews to find the truth from the bible:

Quran 5:65-66"

"If only the People of the Book had believed and been righteous, We should indeed have blotted out their iniquities and admitted them to Gardens of Bliss.

If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side."

Edited by sereihan, 29 June 2012 - 02:48 AM.


#3 danieldemol

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:06 AM

How are these statements contrary?


"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel"

(King James Bible, 2 Thessalonians)

and

"If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side."

Both of them insist Christians should obey the Gospel.

#4 danieldemol

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:32 AM

Agreed

#5 Wesley

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:45 AM

Great – then I suggest you and Wesley should stop trying to prove the Quran does not contradict the bible because in many cases it does.

God bless,


Please do not tell me what to do. In regards to belief, or independent reasoning, to each his own. If you feel frustrated, take a step back. Think about the values God teaches and consider how to apply those in your interactions with others. Maybe you can approach the subject you hope to teach in a different light. There are many ways to teach one thing.

Telling someone to stop expressing one's belief in the same God is not good.

#6 danieldemol

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 04:15 AM

Given that I never said the meaning of the Qur'an is different to the meaning of the Gospel why do you feel this should be so?


#7 danieldemol

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 04:37 AM

I confirm that I did not imply that the meaning of the Qur'an is different to the meaning of the Gospel.

All the best with your break, may the All-Merciful Lord bring you peace.

#8 fathi

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 03:40 PM

whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.” - 1 Thessalonians 1:10

Muslims do not believe that Jesus had died and was raised up from the dead, yet that’s what St Paul preached.

God bless,


Do you know the full history of Paul Augustine?

a) He was a former Pharisee
b) His wife left him because of his appearance and married the Ceasar of the Empire {motive anyone}
c) Did not Jesus (pbuh) teach that he would descend in the same manner that he ascended and not to listen if someone claimed to see him in the wilderness? Was not Paul's vision in the wilderness of the road of Damascus?
d) Do you not realize that there are 3 versions of the conversion of Paul in the Acts of the Apostles?
e) Did Jesus not say be leery of those who claim to hear him in the inner room? Did not Paul claim to get his 'revelations' from Jesus (pbuh) while in prison {which is an inner room}?

#9 fathi

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 04:00 PM

Yes I’m aware of these; however I would be interested to know where you got your reference for point B (marriage to Caesar)?

God bless,


I have to admit that point b I cannot remember where I learned this from as I read more stuff than I remember. I am like a sponge in that sense. Can any of the brothers help me in this point?

#10 fathi

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 04:14 PM

At this point we must conclude point B is unsubstantiated therefore false until evidence is provided.

God bless,


I will not say it is false until it is disproved as to do such is a known fallacy. Lack of proof does not prove falsehood. Surely you know this is a basic form of fallacy?

I will instead agree that at present moment it is a weak point as it is unproven (although it is not disproved)

#11 fathi

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 04:18 PM

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

  • Argument from ignorance (appeal to ignorance, argumentum ad ignorantiam) – assuming that a claim is true (or false) because it has not been proven false (true) or cannot be proven false (true).[13]


Edited by abdullahfath, 14 July 2012 - 04:18 PM.


#12 fathi

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 04:44 PM

a) his wife would have not been with him by the time he made this statement thus he would be living a life of celibacy
b) if you insist on sticking with the use of fallacies I must respectfully cease conversation with you because without reasonable logic being used it is all a waste of time. I have shown you using non Islamic means that the logic you are using for saying this is false is a fallacy. If you adhere to using a fallacy for one statement then how do I know that you will not do the same for others which makes me think I am likely wasting my time speaking with you.

#13 fathi

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 05:06 PM

a) its spelled celibacy not celebrate
b) it applies because lack of proof does not prove falsehood. Did you even bother to read what I posted for the fallacy?
c) lack of patience is not a fruit of the spirit brother. if you are patient with me I will find the resource again

However, if you wish to end the conversation then I will go that route

Edited by abdullahfath, 14 July 2012 - 05:06 PM.


#14 fathi

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 05:17 PM

You showed a verse which said simply that Paul wished to be celibate. In which context was this verse used? One can be married without having sexual relations although the marriage is not consummated without it it is still marriage.

Yet again you seem to be growing impatient. I am trying to simply say I will not say that said statement is false as there is no proof to the contrary and to say that something is false without evidence to prove it is would be a fallacy in logical thinking. I did, however, concede that we could refrain from using that point as it was also as unproven to be true at present as it was unproven to be false. Any questions?

#15 fathi

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 06:06 PM

At said time if his wife left he would have been considered unmarried even though it would have been a divorce as is decreed by the law

#16 SaracenSoldier

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 11:24 PM

Why don't we drop B for now. Would you be willing to respond to A,C,D and E Augustine?

#17 LifeInChrist

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 01:34 AM

Do you know the full history of Paul Augustine?

a) He was a former Pharisee
b) His wife left him because of his appearance and married the Ceasar of the Empire {motive anyone}
c) Did not Jesus (pbuh) teach that he would descend in the same manner that he ascended and not to listen if someone claimed to see him in the wilderness? Was not Paul's vision in the wilderness of the road of Damascus?
d) Do you not realize that there are 3 versions of the conversion of Paul in the Acts of the Apostles?
e) Did Jesus not say be leery of those who claim to hear him in the inner room? Did not Paul claim to get his 'revelations' from Jesus (pbuh) while in prison {which is an inner room}?


In response to your point B:
  • It’s spelt Caesar not Ceasar
  • By admitting you do not have evidence you have refuted yourself.
  • Making up some Micky Mouse story then accusing someone to be in error of fallacy due to lack of evidence is unreasonable and silly. By your own standard I can allege your prophet Mohammed at the age of 13 was part of the circus and accuse you in error of fallacy if you cannot show me evidence against it.


#18 Saracen21stC

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 02:02 AM

Why don't we drop B for now. Would you be willing to respond to A,C,D and E Augustine?


Exactly, Let's forget about Point B, at least for NOW!!!!

#19 fathi

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 01:11 PM

1) Notice how they focus only on the one but stay from the others?
2) On the point B what did I say? I said since I cannot prove it at said time but it cannot be disproved then we must consider it invalid at present
3) Unlike your Bible we can actually prove you false on that statement Carlos because we know the life of the prophet in extreme detail. At the age of 13 the prophet was working a trade route to Syria with his uncle Abu Talib