74 replies to this topic

[SaracenSoldier]

"...there I was on the floor with that cop on my back who tore my clothes with scissors and the rest he tore with his hands. Meanwhile, my face was being kicked and my body was being punched by the two policemen who stood beside me (...) At that point, a male cop came and he put handcuffs on me, with my hands behind my back. I had my hair tied in a knot, he snatched the rubber band out of my hair and he pulled me by my hair to put me on my feet. He pulled my hair and my handcuffs and I sat on my two knees.”

They dragged me so I could get up and they dragged me by the police department in front of all their colleagues. The colleagues asked, “Who is this?” Which the police said: “This is a burqa, this is a burqa!” For me this was a triple humiliation because I was half naked and this was a big humiliation for me, because I felt how everyone stared at me, I felt dirty by their eyes that were focused on my body, this was a humiliation for me. They paraded me for five minutes or so across the police station. And they were screaming: “Look, look this is a burqa!” And to finish, they threw me in a cell for about 2 hours.”

http://www.cagepriso...han-guantanamo”

[Aligarr]

As far as I know , no one was killed in Guantanimo . That is not to justify anything that took place there . But of whom do you speak ? And what will you show to whom ?

[SaracenSoldier]

As far as I know , no one was killed in Guantanimo . That is not to justify anything that took place there . But of whom do you speak ? And what will you show to whom ?

That quote is not from me. That is what a police officer said to a Muslim lady while beating her.

[ala'adin]

May Allah give her sabr, a shocking story...

[Aligarr]

Sorry Saracen Soldier , your link didn't work when I clicked on it the other night . I wil look into this story to understand what cauised the Identity check to begin with .
There is one universal rule to follow no matter where you are , man or woman and that is do not resist or touch the police officer ....this will guarantee and arrest where one may not have been necessarry to begin with .
The remark made by the police to her about Guantanimo , was uncalled for ,and totally inappropriate to any situation .

[Aligarr]

Full covering of the face is banned in Belgium and France . This woman was asked to remove it , she refused , wrestled with a female policewoman slightly injuring her , and was then arrested .She broke the law . What followed was not called for but should be expected .
What if the situation were reversed , that is, a western woman should enter an Islamic country and not dress according to their rules ? She would be arrested or worse . If told to cover-up and refused then wrestled with police ....what do you expect would then happen ?
It is certainly not a good situation , but that's the way it is in the world today .When I go to the Middle East accompanied by my wife , I make sure we follow the rules of dress and public behavior . It's Their Country and Their Laws and we abide them .
Having said that , there is no excuse for unnecessarry violence or insults towards this woman once the woman ceased to resist her arrest .

[Nightingale]

This is the link of the victim in her own words. Considering the brutality of the attacks documented against her, I really wouldn't be able to support the police on this at all. As she said herself, she had been fined before and paid it, rather than denying her beliefs, which is her right to do. No matter what, police brutality is never okay.



This also reminds me of the story about the homeless man in Fullerton who was such a threat that five police officers had to beat him and suffocate him so badly that he died. And people actually sided with those officers as well.

The police do a difficult job, I admit that, but people like these officers give all police officers a bad name, and again I could never support or condone the actions the police took in this case, no matter the circumstances.

[Saracen21stC]

Full covering of the face is banned in Belgium and France .

Both Burqa and Niqab are banned there even though the devout Muslim women have voiced their disapproval of the ban. They intentionally make laws by targeting devout Muslims.

This woman was asked to remove it ,

They asked to Remove whole Burqa .

she refused ,

As a Muslim she has done the right thing by refusing to remove the whole Burkha

wrestled with a female policewoman slightly injuring her ,

If you force any women be she Muslim or non-Muslim to remove her cloth like Burkha, she has the right to retaliate. Those vile Polices forced her first to remove whole Burkha, she retaliated for her self-defence. That's very fair.

and was then arrested .She broke the law .

A country which promises freedom should never have a law banning clothes which cover the whole part of their body. Who gave them right to attack a women (be it Muslim or Christian or of other faith) for covering their most of the body? And who are you to speak in support of uncovering women of their burkhas?

What followed was not called for but should be expected .

Oh I see! Women could be criminalized for covering their most of the body. Forcing ,beating and harassing women for covering their full body is very Western then. And People of very low mentality can say that it 'should be expected'

What if the situation were reversed , that is, a western woman should enter an Islamic country and not dress according to their rules ?

Most of the Muslim countries do not force women to wear Burkha. And covering the body is not same as uncovering the body. Even in the Western countries covering up to a certain extent is necessary. Many People are not allowed to walk around naked in the West.

She would be arrested or worse .

She would probably be arrested, fined, but there is no Islam law to sexually harass women for not covering body as per Islam.

If told to cover-up and refused then wrestled with police ....what do you expect would then happen ?

Even in the Western countries covering up to a certain extent is necessary. For example, there are some streakers who enter a football or cricket field. they are arrested and forcefully taken away from the field. So, this sort rule is also applied in the West.

[Saracen21stC]

It is certainly not a good situation , but that's the way it is in the world today .

The Western countries are the most powerful nations today and they decide many things in the World. Your comment proves that they have failed to make ' good situation'. And the way proposals to get burkha, hijab banned are rising, it shows that they are on their agenda to attack Islam and Muslims.

And yes! you seem to be justifying making those not so good situations.

When I go to the Middle East accompanied by my wife , I make sure we follow the rules of dress and public behavior .

As it has been shown earlier, you analogy has failed miserably. Covering the body, and uncovering the body is not same thing. Even in Western countries, streakers are forcibly wrapped with clothes by Polices.


And in Middle East Muslim countries, there is no Islamic law to forcefully uncover your wife by sitting on her buttock using a scissor to cut her clothes including underwear, tear her clothes using hands of men, kicking on her face, pulling her hair violently, kneeling her, making her completely nude, using clothes to suffocate her, beating violently, and then parading her half naked in the police station.

It's Their Country and Their Laws and we abide them .

No country in this earth should have law to uncover women forcibly and sexually harass her. You sound like a supporter of rapist to me.

Having said that , there is no excuse for unnecessarry violence or insults towards this woman once the woman ceased to resist her arrest .

Oh ho! So, there are some necessary violence and insults towards women to be used if they cover their most of the body. People with such mentality are the real criminals who come to justify this sort sexual harassment. If you were in front of me justifying activities of these polices against women of any faith, I would have given a slap on your face.

I just wonder how can a human with compassion justify those acts (quoted at the original post) of those tyrant Polices.

[Aligarr]

You haver alot to say Saracen Soldier , I justify nothing , I simply say that when one is approached by police you co-operate period . Her resistance gave the police their "excuse " . Of course any brutality is wrong , but if you resist an arrest , even in the US muslim or not , man or woman , and then lay a hand on the policeperson , you're going to jail ,and not softly .
She was asked to uncover her face , THAT is what is banned in Belgium . She refused and then assaulted the police woman . What I speak is not justification but common sense . If you get violent with police , they will get violent with you , THAT is what I said and meant mentioning "UNNECESSARRY " .
In addition the burqua is not required by the Koran , it is not a religious duty , it is a religious tradition alien to Western Countries , just as a women's head uncovered or any part of the legs showing is alien and illegal in some Islamic countries .

Never mind what you would do to me if I was in front of your face .

Respect is a two way street , you respect the ways of others in their country and they do the same in yours . If you know there is a law ,and you break it , then you cause a confrontation , once that occurs , given human nature , the rest is typical .

[Nightingale]

Wrong, she didn't refuse. She said she would uncover her face for police to identify her, then she would cover back up. They decided to strip her naked, which goes beyond any human decency and that is when she struggled. She had already willingly got in their vehicle and went with them to the police station, something even the police admit to when reports came out.

She didn't assault the police woman. At least here in the US, it would never be considered assault. She was already handcuffed and basically helpless, and then if you start getting hit and kicked, your natural reaction is to struggle. If you disagree there, I'd say your lying to yourself. So they got violent with her, and because of that a policewoman got hurt while she was knocked unconscious. Saying that she attacked a police officer is wrong considering that so far all the evidence backs up her claim.

[Aligarr]

I have read the same story Saracen Soldier read , the woman was asked to remove the FACE COVERING ONLY - she refused , became beligerant and an altercation ensued with the policewoman ,the woman assaulted the policewoman This initiated the violence , and what caused the arrest . If you put your hand on a police officer while resisting arrest , here in the US , you will be charged with assault and resisting arrest .Continue to be violent and most likely the police will do the same .That's not justification just fact .

[SaracenSoldier]

Firstly, you were discussing with brother Saracen21stC not me.

Secondly, you make me SICK trying to blame our honorable sister and defending those barbarians.

[Nightingale]

The fact is I believe her more than I believe the press, because the press has had differing reports and sensationalism. That is what makes me believe her, as she said...the police did nothing really wrong until they got to the station.

[Aligarr]

Unfortunately the story grows .It is already nearly a month or more old . This women has done this before , she is a Belgian convert to Islam .In addition the whole incident took place in the context of a demonstration along with about 8 others . Upon frisking by two policewomen this woman head-butted one policewoman breaking her nose and knocking out two teeth .

I don't beleve anyone " more " than the other , I simply try to get the facts . Saracen Soldier posted only what this woman had to say .

[Saracen21stC]

@ Aligarr , You supporter of rapist, even if a woman attacks a police, she should not be sexually harassed in anyway. This is despicable.

She was attacked first to uncover fully and was verbally abused many times. So far your 'facts' are your own made up story. Or else prove that those are facts. And why those are facts?


And next time if I see a single word here justifying sexual harassment of this woman or any women, you are out of here. I hope that people of such sick mentality disappears from the earth.

[Aligarr]

Uh ......she wasn't sexually harrassed , and I do not support rapists . And I guess it doesn't really matter which of the two of you I'm speaking to , because I am speaking the facts as opposed to what you are repeating , repeating what the woman has said , which you have no idea of how much is true and how much is not . This woman has done this before , therefore she is no innocent bystander just walking by .Her purpose was to confront the police while breaking a law . If you don't like the laws of a particular country and feel that you can not live with those laws , then one should leave and go to a country where the law accomodates their sensibilities .

And did I hear you say you want to know why a fact is a fact ? Are you serious ?
In addition , DONT YOU GO ACCUSING ME OF SUPPORTING SEXUALL HARRASSMENT of this woman , because SHE WAS NOT SEXUALLY HARRASSED ....that is only what you want to believe . I DO NOT support sexual harrassment , but I DO SUPPORT following the law of the land you are living in .
And in case you dont know any better , asking her to remove her face covering ...IS NOT SEXUAL HARRASSMENT /.

[Aligarr]

Both of you Saracen Soldier and Saracen21stC have the burden of proof to show , not me .I have researched this story , and NOWHERE , I MEAN NOWHERE ,have I found a shred of evidence that this woman was sexually harrassed .
So instead of issuing insults and threats to me , I suggest you produce some PROOF , OTHER THAN the words of this woman , who has a motive to lie about the incident .

[Saracen21stC]

@ Aligarr, These are lies, there is not a single proof of your own made up story except anti-Islamic source who have agenda to blame Islam and harass devout Muslim women. This law was newly created even though Muslim women protested and protests against this. This woman is Belgian, so who are you to ask her to leave the country for wearing Burkha? She never attacked the police first , they rather attacked and verbally abused her. Before this incident she has been always paying fines for covering her whole body with Burkha + niqab. And if you say she had the motive of lying, you are the one who should show the proof of lying.

I do not need you own comment or rather lies here. If there is any credible source confirming every bit of story and refuting that women, you will have to show.

It's the people of your mentally who are threatening devout Muslims.

[Aligarr]

Why dont you just say that you don't like the law , instead of attempting baseless accusations ? I do NOT have the responsibility to refute HEARSAY .
YOU ,Saracen21stC have the responsibility to PROVE what this woman claims as true . All reports From Belgium , France and Europe in general ...NONE support your story .WHERE are you getting your information from ????
As far as I can see ,this woman was arrested for wearing full face covering / when asked to remove it she refused /when forced to remove it [face covering only ] she resisted , became violent and assaulted a policewoman / this same woman has behaved like this before / both the woman and the policewoman were taken to a hospitol and treated for their injuries from the fight initiated by this woman . /there is no mention of any sexual assault -PERIOD .
The woman, atleast according to the "narrative posted " at the beginning of the thread by Saracen Soldier , claimed she was the victim of sexual harrassment by police ...there is NO PROOF anywhere to support this other than the woman's own allegations , which remain UNSUBSTANTIATED . You are basing all of your conclusion on her words ,without any FACTS .So you ASSUME the rest of the world is lying and the woman is the only one speaking the truth .
Almost a month has pased since the incident ,enough time for the truth to surface ,and there is STILL NOTHING in the way of FACTS ...just her accusations , which were meant to only incite others to violence , AS IT DID in fact incite violence, WHICH there IS proof of . A mob had stormed the police station hurling rocks and other objects about 11 persons were detained and released as well as this woman . You have done no earnest research to find the truth , you simply read something somewhere and accepted it without proof , and now you make accusations against me because I refute her story -YOU must prove her story /NOT ME .
In addition you made false accusations about me saying I support sexual harrassmnent which NEVER even occurred , You say I support rape ,which is a lie .I take those accusations seriously , and again you have no proof , other than taking my own words out of context and using them against me in your accusations .......AN APOLOGY IS IN ORDER .