18 replies to this topic

[atheism101]

What would you do if your son or daughter deconverted from Islam and converted to either a different religion or became an atheist?

[Padre5]

Continue to love and support him/her, of course!
All people are entitled to form their own beliefs. Free will DOES exist; if there is a God, that is something God gave us. The whole idea of Apostasy is obscene!

[dot]

I would surely blame myself, for not educating my kid enough. I would do my best to help them change their minds, through reasoning and education. But in the end, its Allah Al-Mighty who guides whom He wants, and each individual is accountable for their choices, provided that I did not neglect my role in raising and teaching them the Islamic way of life.

Non Muslims are often confused about apostasy. No Muslim should be punished by anyone for leaving Islam, as long as its their personal and private choice. Unless they go public and start what could attract others to leave Islam, like publishing a book or preaching away from Islam, no punishment should be inflicted by humans. Its only Allah Al-Mighty that will deal with them, if they die in that state.

[atheism101]

I would surely blame myself, for not educating my kid enough. I would do my best to help them change their minds, through reasoning and education. But in the end, each individual is accountable for their choices, provided that I did not neglect my role in raising and teaching them the Islamic way of life.

Would you, say, kick them out of the house? Disown them? Prevent your other kids from listening to his/her arguments too much?

Non Muslims are often confused about apostasy. No Muslim should be punished for leaving Islam, as long as its their personal and private choice.

I don't like the fact that you seem to undermine issues real people such as myself actually face. If I do ever let my family know about leaving Islam, I am in threat of being kicked out of the house, disowned, etc. At the very least, everyone, particularly my parents, would be hostile towards me, making my life at home miserable. Furthermore, in an Islamic state apostates are to be punished by death. Granted you probably do not live an Islamic state, I doubt the other end of the deal is that if it isn't an Islamic state, you just let them exercise their freedom of thought.

Unless they go public and start what could attract others to leave Islam, like publishing a book or preaching away from Islam, no punishment should be given by humans. Its only Allah Al-Mighty that will deal with them.

Why is going public or preaching away from Islam worthy of any more hostility than going public and preaching towards Islam deserves from nonmuslims?

[dot]

You seem pretty confused about Islam, or your family might possibly need more Islamic education.
To be a kafir is a free choice granted to you by your Creator.
All the cases that I know of, are about young people losing faith during their teen ages. Then, through a journey of doubt, they come to a self conclusion that there s a god, and that Islam is the perfect way of life. I've yet to meet or know anyone in real life who left Islam for good. But even if such person exists, like I said, only Allah guides whom he wants.

By going public, bragging about your kufr, you become a threat or fitnah to the Islamic community. Young people and those with little ties with their Lord could be affected. In such case, executing you would save your fitnah from spreading. But there are endless steps to be taken before coming to that execution. Unfortunately, that punishment is not implemented in most Muslim countries.

Why is going public or preaching away from Islam worthy of any more hostility than going public and preaching towards Islam deserves from nonmuslims?

You sound as if I'm the one who set those rules!
Perhaps because Islam is the ultimate way of life? or maybe because Muslims care for their religion much more than any other religion in the world? or is it because Islam is the seal of religions and the last message from our Creator? that if we lost it no other chance will be given to us until the end of time?

[atheism101]

You seem pretty confused about Islam, or your family might possibly need more Islamic education.
To be a kafir is a free choice granted to you by your Creator.
All the cases that I know of, are about young people losing faith during their teen ages. Then, through a journey of doubt, they come to a self conclusion that there s a god, and that Islam is the perfect way of life. I've yet to meet or know anyone in real life who left Islam for good. But even if such person exists, like I said, only Allah guides whom he wants.

There's many ex-muslim societies and yes, most ex-muslims die non-muslim. To deny this is just silly disregard for truth.
If Allah guides whom he wants, then we humans are bound to what he has decided to us. We're completely powerless to change without his help, so it is not our fault. More on this on my other topics such as free will is an illusion.

By going public, bragging about your kufr, you become a threat or fitnah to the Islamic community. Young people and those with little ties with their Lord could be affected. In such case, executing you would save your fitnah from spreading. But there are endless steps to be taken before coming to that execution. Unfortunately, that punishment is not implemented in most Muslim countries.

Ever heard of freedom of speech? Also, you did not answer my question. i.e.

Why is going public or preaching away from Islam worthy of any more hostility than going public and preaching towards Islam deserves from nonmuslims?

[Younes]

If Allah guides whom he wants, then we humans are bound to what he has decided to us. We're completely powerless to change without his help, so it is not our fault. More on this on my other topics such as free will is an illusion.

(16:35). And those who worshipped others with Allah said: "If Allah had so willed, neither we nor our fathers would have worshipped any but Him nor would we have forbidden anything without (a command from) Him.'' Those before them did the same. Then! Are the Messengers charged with anything but to clearly convey the Message)

[atheism101]

(16:35). And those who worshipped others with Allah said: "If Allah had so willed, neither we nor our fathers would have worshipped any but Him nor would we have forbidden anything without (a command from) Him.'' Those before them did the same. Then! Are the Messengers charged with anything but to clearly convey the Message)

I don't get it.

[andalusi]

If Allah guides whom he wants, then we humans are bound to what he has decided to us. We're completely powerless to change without his help, so it is not our fault.

if you read quran you would understand.

To be guided you need to deserve it, to be guided from God. If your heart is pure, and you honestly want to know the true and be guided by God, just ask God for guidence, and God will open your eyes and heart for the true, it will be clear in your eyes what is wrong what is the truth.

[atheism101]

if you read quran you would understand.

To be guided you need to deserve it, to be guided from God. If your heart is pure, and you honestly want to know the true and be guided by God, just ask God for guidence, and God will open your eyes and heart for the true, it will be clear in your eyes what is wrong what is the truth.

To be guided by the flying spaghetti monster, you need to deserve it. If your plate is pure and you want to taste the truth then just ask the FSM for guidance, and He will open your fridge and fill your plate with the truth. It will be clear in your mouth what is true and what isn't.

Edited by atheism101, 31 July 2012 - 11:49 PM.

[andalusi]

To be guided by the flying spaghetti monster, you need to deserve it. If your plate is pure and you want to taste the truth then just ask the FSM for guidance, and He will open your fridge and fill your plate with the truth. It will be clear in your mouth what is true and what isn't.

the problem is that your spaggeti monster dont send books and prophets, while God does.

[Nightingale]

atheism101, why don't you ask the question of all people rather than just simply Muslims turning away from Islam? What about an atheist parent disowning/disinheriting a child because they chose to follow a religion that they feel is truth? Or a Christian parent? Or a Pagan parent? Or...well, you get the idea.

Do you not think those happen in just as much prevalence (if not more in the US)?

[atheism101]

the problem is that your spaggeti monster dont send books and prophets, while God does.

Yes he does! I am one!

[atheism101]

atheism101, why don't you ask the question of all people rather than just simply Muslims turning away from Islam? What about an atheist parent disowning/disinheriting a child because they chose to follow a religion that they feel is truth? Or a Christian parent? Or a Pagan parent? Or...well, you get the idea.

Do you not think those happen in just as much prevalence (if not more in the US)?

I doubt an atheist parent would have any reason to disown or disinherit a child because they chose to follow a religion. I would disagree with this if anyone did so. And I haven't denied that the same happens in any religious community. Several wrongs don't make a right. Islam teaches that apostates should die in an Islamic state, and you ought to be able to defend this belief without saying that other religions do the same or similar.

[Nightingale]

My father who is atheist (my mother is conservative Christian) have disowned and disinherited me, so I speak from personal experience. I have yet to actually see someone killed for apostasy. That's from my personal knowledge.

[atheism101]

My father who is atheist (my mother is conservative Christian) have disowned and disinherited me, so I speak from personal experience. I have yet to actually see someone killed for apostasy. That's from my personal knowledge.

Like I said, I would not support it regardless of who did it. Although, I do wonder if your mother being a conservative Christian had more of a role in getting you disowned than your father's atheism, because I honestly cannot see why an atheist would have any reason to care so much as to disown his or her daughter. It seems like a really silly thing to do. I still see why perhaps your mother could be motivated by religious ideals to disown you, but I cannot say the same for your father. In any case, both are in the wrong, and I do not support this in any condition. I am honestly sorry to hear about your situation.
And yes, I have not personally seen anyone killed for apostasy either. But we live in a society with a secular moral system and so of course you don't see it anymore. It's that people aren't killed for apostasy *despite* religion. If it were up to religion, than in Islamic states, there would still be a death penalty for apostasy. Do you at least agree that this is the shariah law for an Islamic state? I'm not saying that it would practically happen in a first world 21st century country. But for instance, one could be disowned, as you can attest to.

[Nightingale]

Actually, my father is the driving force behind it. He works in Saudi Arabia and won't tolerate a Muslim in his family according to him. So, while my mother dislikes Muslims, my father is the one that demanded me cast out.

[atheism101]

Actually, my father is the driving force behind it. He works in Saudi Arabia and won't tolerate a Muslim in his family according to him. So, while my mother dislikes Muslims, my father is the one that demanded me cast out.

This kind of sounds like a cultural distaste of some sort. His decision seems really irrational and he ought to be ashamed of himself.

[atheism101]

I'm not sure here - are people on this forum disagreeing with the death penalty (at least in an Islamic state, perhaps even elsewhere) for apostasy? I had expected approval.