16 replies to this topic

[KenPruitt]

I thought this was the case, but with all of the new research coming out about the health benefits of it, I'm beginning to have my doubts.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Younes]

As-salamu 'alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

Yes, marijuana does intoxicate the mind. There is nothing controversial about this.

[KenPruitt]

I'm not fully convinced that it is an intoxicant. For starters, there are all of the health benefits from smoking marijuana. Secondly, there are no health detriments from smoking it, or at least none that I'm aware of. (I'd post links to this but I'm not allowed to post links just yet.)

We also need to remember that Marijuana is NOT a man-made creation like cigarettes, heroine, crystal meth, alcoholic drinks, it is a natural plant (one of Allah's creations I might add) that is loaded with vitamin content and has hundreds of benefits to it.

[ParadiseLost]

As salaam alaykum

To act like marijuana doesn't intoxicate is to just ignore reality. Many scientists agree that it has many side effects especially on mental health. The following article shows there are many side effects to using the drug: http://www.drugabuse...facts/marijuana

And while there may be some health benefits to it that does not mean it is ok to use it. Allah also tells us in the quran that alcohol has benefits but that the sin in alcohol is greater than the benefit which is why we should stay away from it. This makes sense because while scientists claim that alcoholic drinks such as red wine can be good for the blood it does not take away from the destroying effects alcohol can have on the body and how it effects society from breaking up families to anti-social behaviour. Marijuana is no different.

Narrated AbudDarda: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah has sent down both the disease and the cure, and He has appointed a cure for every disease, so treat yourselves medically, but use nothing unlawful. (Abu Dawud Book 28, Hadith 3865)

Also just because it is not a man made creation does not mean it couldn't possibly be haraam. We are also forbidden to eat pork and humans did not create pigs. Didn't you ever think that God made these things haraam as a test for us - to see who really believes and follows what he says?


More useful links:
http://www.islamqa.c.../115761/smoking
http://spa.qibla.com...ID=3264&CATE=13

[KenPruitt]

As salaam alaykum

To act like marijuana doesn't intoxicate is to just ignore reality. Many scientists agree that it has many side effects especially on mental health. The following article shows there are many side effects to using the drug: http://www.drugabuse...facts/marijuana

And while there may be some health benefits to it that does not mean it is ok to use it. Allah also tells us in the quran that alcohol has benefits but that the sin in alcohol is greater than the benefit which is why we should stay away from it. This makes sense because while scientists claim that alcoholic drinks such as red wine can be good for the blood it does not take away from the destroying effects alcohol can have on the body and how it effects society from breaking up families to anti-social behaviour. Marijuana is no different.

Narrated AbudDarda: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah has sent down both the disease and the cure, and He has appointed a cure for every disease, so treat yourselves medically, but use nothing unlawful. (Abu Dawud Book 28, Hadith 3865)

Also just because it is not a man made creation does not mean it couldn't possibly be haraam. We are also forbidden to eat pork and humans did not create pigs. Didn't you ever think that God made these things haraam as a test for us - to see who really believes and follows what he says?


More useful links:
http://www.islamqa.c.../115761/smoking
http://spa.qibla.com...ID=3264&CATE=13

First of all, those health side-effects listed in the government propaganda site that you posted have been thoroughly debunked. A good documentary to watch is, "The Emperor Wears No Clothes" I think is the name of it. They talk about the propaganda behind Marijuana, including the idea that it makes white women want to have orgies with Blacks and Mexicans (I'm not kidding, they actually said this stuff. Look up a film called "Reefer Madness"). And in fact, it is proven to have absolutely no detrimental side effects. None. The only real reason it was made illegal is because hemp could be used for so many things (it can make paper, fuel, leather, and more), it was about to put a lot of very wealthy business tycoons out of business. So, they lobbied the government (and of course there are behind-the-scenes-shenanigans every time something like that happens), and thus it was made illegal after a lengthy propaganda campaign.

Secondly, the Hadiths are NOT a credible source of anything. They are not the word of God, and roughly 95% of it isn't even the actual words of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). Thus, they are utterly irrelevant.

The question is, is Marijuana an intoxicant? I don't believe that it is, but if you want to argue that all intoxicants are forbidden, then I can simply point to hundreds of cancer and HIV patients who are taking Marijuana as a means to help them recover. Are you going to forbid cancer patients and AIDS patients treatment (Marijuana is prescribed to both medical groups where the laws allow for it) on the idea that Marijuana isn't lawful? How do you explain this?

You seriously may want to rethink this position. The implications are not good.

[ParadiseLost]

There are many credible scientific studies to show there is a direct connection between marijuana and effects of mental health - I actually don't care about what propaganda you think there is behind marijuana because I already know firsthand the effects it has on people. I don't need some scientist to tell me it causes health issues. A member of my family used to use marijuana, thankfully no longer, and I saw the effects it had on them especially how it makes them paranoid - so I would never advise it to anyone - I wouldn't care what health benefits it has. And if someone is going to claim it causes pain relief there are many substitutes for pain relief.

I am actually not going to even bother talking with someone who says the hadiths are not a credible source of anything because you clearly don't know what you are talking about. You need to set your priorities straight especially in the month of Ramadan. Learn about the science of hadith before claiming things like 95% of them aren't actually the words of Muhammad and they are irrelevant. If you want to spend your time in the month of Ramadan learning about marijuana then go ahead.

[ala'adin]

In your first post on this topic you said you had some doubt about it, yet since others have posted you have become strong in defended it as legitimate. it makes me think that you have an agenda. please also check out Dr Johnathon brown like i said before about hadith

As a reminder you cannot twist and pull things to suit yourself, the religion is not like that. Remember that you are a SLAVE, a Slave cannot change the law of his master, if he goes against the law of his master he will be held to account. Remember that this world is nothing but desires, those that you can seek and attain lawfully and those that are unlawful stay with those that are lawful and me moderate and remember that to Allah is your return so prepare yourself for that day.

[Nightingale]

Where is your proof that there are absolutely no detrimental effects of marijuana use? Even those who support marijuana use are quick to point out that there are side-effects, as with any drug or intoxicant. You saying that there are none, when even the most knowledgeable medical minds say there are several is interesting to say the least.

As for comments about the hadiths, well I am a new Muslim but I wouldn't ever disrespect Islam by claiming that. Which is essentially what you seem to say. That would be like a Christian discounting the letters of Paul while still proclaiming themselves a Christian. You can't separate the hadiths from Islam.

[hamza81]

Ted you have contradicted yourself on so many occassions already. You first posted this thread like you are unsure whether Marijuana was an intoxicant or not and as the thread went on and many people told you that it is an intoxicant you now all of a sudden seem to be more sure than ever that it does not intoxicate.

What you have to realise is there is NO disagreement nor is there any debate amongst Botanists and Scientists regarding the fact that Marijuana is an intoxicant. On top of that ask the millions of people who smoke it whether it is an intoxicant or not. They would not smoke it if it did not intoxicate.

On top of that MANY studies have shown and proven the link between Marijuana use and psychosis proves that it has many detrimental effects. Particularly on youngsters who take it before their brains are fully developed. I myself have grown up in a society where Marijuana is seen as "normal" just like tea and biscuits and i can tell you one thing for certain that it ruins lives, not only of those who take it but the familys and those involved with those who take it. I also know of people who had taken it once or twice and developed psychosis because of it and many others of whom have been effected mentally due to taking Marijuana. Marijuana also leads to more harder drugs.

Then you state that hadith are not a credible source in Islam. This just proves without a doubt that not only do you not know anything about the effects of Marijuana, but that you are also very ignorant and arrogant to make such a heretical statement that has actually taken you out of the fold of Islam (if indeed you are a Muslim in the first place).

So i urge you Ken to stop being narrow minded and ignorant and open your heart and learn about Islam properly under the guidance of a proper and reliable scholar, or at least read books written by proper and reliable scholars. Read and learn about the sciences of hadith and how they are authenticated because if you doubt hadith then you doubt the Qur'an as they were compiled by many of the same people who wrote hadith from the Prophet. On top of that we have chains of transmission to prove the authenticity of hadith and it is clear that you are unaware of the sciences of hadith. If you are unclear or have misconceptions about a particular matter then look it up properly before making such heretical conclusions which are so dangerous that it has taken you out of the fold of orthodox Islam.

With regards to Marijuana and also read Medical journals on Marijuana and go out there and ask proper long term users with regards to how Marijuana has effected their lives because your statements prove that you do not live in this world if you truly believe what you have stated regarding Marijuana.

Please see the following video where a specialist proves which proves the link between Marijuana use and cognitive impairment:

Medical Marijuana Use Linked to Cognitive Impairment

[Amna4]

I am not supporting the argument for marijuana use, but I will defend the credibility of there being no (physical) side effects from the use of marijuana. There have been multiple studies done on this, and if I remember correctly (we studied these in classes), none produced above a weak correlation between physical ill-effects and marijuana use. Most specifically, I remember a study done on birth defects. Both alcohol and cigarette use during pregnancy raised the chances of the child being born with a defect, while there was no correlation between marijuana use and birth defects.

As for psychological effects, everyone is affected differently. Even watching some movies (even children's films) could trigger emotional distress in certain individuals.

Again, I do not support the use of marijuana. I am just placing information that might educate a little.

[Younes]

As-salamu 'alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

The Prophet (pbuh) said that what intoxicates in large amounts is forbidden in small amounts.

Thus it does not really matter whether there are side effects or not when an intoxicant is in question. I mean even wine does not necessarily have side effects when drunk in small amounts yet that does not make it halal.

Amna, I know you were not arguing for the lawfulness of marijuana. I am just putting this out here since it needs to be said since it deals with the original topic at hand.

[KenPruitt]

"In your first post on this topic you said you had some doubt about it, yet since others have posted you have become strong in defended it as legitimate. it makes me think that you have an agenda."

I'm convinced now it's not because of what you don't seem to mind letting people use. You don't seem to mind someone who is in extreme pain taking Vicodin or Lortab or Morphine (three VERY physically addictive, toxic opiates) for their pain. How can these three highly addictive opiates not be considered an intoxicant in medical use, but Marijuana which in fact has no side effects and isn't physically addictive be considered an intoxicant? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. if Marijuana is an intoxicant, then Vicodin, Lortab, Morphine, and all of the other opiate pain killers (Oxycotton is a big one) are definitely intoxicants and are therefore forbidden even in medical use. This is the conclusion you're forced to to come to if you follow this nonsense to its end.

As far as that video is concerned, this man is lying through his teeth. Marijuana is responsible for absolutely no counts of lung cancer, and those case studies are from people who smoked cigarettes.

Here is a documentary to watch on the subject.



"As for comments about the hadiths, well I am a new Muslim but I wouldn't ever disrespect Islam by claiming that."

You're disrespecting Islam by embracing them, contrary to what all of these would-be scholars are saying. The only legitimate function of the Hadiths is to give us a historical perspective of the time in which the Prophet (pbuh) lived. Outside of that, the Hadiths have no authority and to say that they do is to invent a lie not only against Allah but against the Qur'an. The Qur'an tells you that it is complete. The Qur'an also doesn't contradict itself, and even warns you that that which isn't the word of god will be loaded with contradictions. The Hadiths are in fact loaded with contradictions, and sometimes they even contradict the Qur'an. This is common knowledge to anyone who knows anything about the history of the Hadiths, and if someone has studied the history of the Hadiths, including the time in which everyone was forging Hadiths for their own person profit (as an example of this, there was a Hadith at one point which said, "Eating Flour Cookies Makes Man Strong", and it's no coincidence that the man who put this into circulation, Muhammed b. Hajjaj Mahai, was a merchant who was selling flour cookies). During the second century of Islam, even the staunch supporters of the Hadith, the "People of Tradition" knew that the number of forged Hadiths were staggering, but the scholars said that all you had to do was sort out the authentic Hadiths from the forgeries and that they had the exclusive authority to do this. So they set out to perform this task. One of the most prominent of these scholars, al-Bukhari, is said to have chosen 2,602 out of 300,000 Hadiths. Now bear in mind that the Hadiths weren't ever recorded until 2 centuries after his death, and these scholars think that they can choose the "authentic" Hadiths out of this? Are you kidding? ("Islam Without Extremes: A Muslim Case for Liberty" by Mustafa Akyol is my source here.)

The Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) was a great man, chosen by Allah to deliver his message to the Arabic peoples, but he wasn't some suprahuman figure like the Christians view Jesus. The Prophet Muhammed was a great man, but he was just a man; a man who lived in his own time period, and besides the revelation given to him by Allah, was restricted to the wisdom that existed in his time period. This is the reason the Hadiths are illegitimate. They've been given far more importance than they deserve in the name of a Sunnah (tradition) that would otherwise be dead. Tradition changes. Culture changes. The Qur'an is timeless, the Hadiths are not. And this is just the tip of the ice-berg. That's not getting into how many times the Hadiths contradict the Qur'an.

[Younes]

Well your issue is obviously a lot worse than just simply wondering about the permissability of marijuana use. Your post about the Hadiths was common yet ignorant thoughts that are espoused by hadith rejectors.

If you want to actually learn, here is a good book on the hadiths: http://mac.abc.se/~onesr/d2/shla_e.pdf

However, it seems that your problem is that you believe that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was sent to the Arab peoples (while he was sent to the whole world according to the Qur'an) and thus he is limited in understanding and his Sunnah should not be followed.

The ironic thing about hadith rejectors is that they end shooting themselves in the foot when they attact the Hadiths. Is the Qur'an preserved according to you? (This is not necessarily a given seeing your unorthodox beliefs). If it is, then how was it preserved? What proof do you have for it? Hint: it was preserved using the same method as the Hadiths.

[Younes]

Another resource:

http://www.islamic-a...ess.org/Hadith/

[Younes]

So they set out to perform this task. One of the most prominent of these scholars, al-Bukhari, is said to have chosen 2,602 out of 300,000 Hadiths. Now bear in mind that the Hadiths weren't ever recorded until 2 centuries after his death, and these scholars think that they can choose the "authentic" Hadiths out of this? Are you kidding? ("Islam Without Extremes: A Muslim Case for Liberty" by Mustafa Akyol is my source here.)

The picture you are painting is quite false, as if forged hadiths were the majority. That is not the case. You try to prove your case by saying al-Bukhari (rah) chose his collection out of several thousand hadiths, which is true, and implying that the rest which he did not include in his collection were forged, inauthentic, thus proving your point of forged hadiths by far outnumbering authentic ones. However, did you ever stop to think why al-Bukhari (rah) did not include every authentic hadith in his collection? The reason is actually quite simple. For fear of unbearing length. He wanted his compilation to be a reference, not just a huge collection. A compilation of 300 000 hadiths is extremly hard to preserve in book form also, so there are practical reasons as well. Plus even the most dedicated people will be overwhelmed by a compilation that is extremely lenghty.

Another reason which you probably did not pause to think about is the following. Let's I have narration from A saying, "Lift your hands when you say Allahu Akbar" and another from B saying the same excact thing. How many hadiths do I have? In hadith terms, I have two hadiths although the matn (content) of the Hadiths is the same. Now what about situation where I have a hundred narrations saying the same excact thing (matn/content). All are authentic, yet I only include one in my compilation. In effect, I have chose one out of a hundred. Try to see how this fits what the situation you talked about.

You can read about this concept from this specific link: http://www.islamic-a...th/exisnad.html

[Younes]

Al-Bukhari (rah): "I have not included in my book al-Jami` but what is authentic, and I left out among the authentic for fear of [excessive] length."


http://www.islamic-a...th/bukhari.html

Good article. Goes a little bit more, or a lot more, indepth, depending on how you look at it than the simple quote above.

[Hoomee]

I have to say that I go along wih the studies that say marijuana does have side effects.

It may or may not be physically addictive but it does make you less able to function while operating complex machinery, and it does mess with your memory, and is also involved with mental problems later in life. I would be happy to post raft after raft of informative linkss on the subject were I permitted. The fact tht alcohol and tobacco may be moreor less or equally damaging is not a compelling argument. Being shot with a.22 is less damaging than being shot with a .44 magnum but I do not see that as an argument for allowing people to be shot with a .22, do you?