12 replies to this topic

[abdullahfath]

I decided to post this here since we began uncovering some of who Al-Qaeda is and who really runs them amidst another thread and decided that this topic was so intriguing it really should have its own thread.

Now I think that this thread should begin with a relatively neutral statement regarding the connection between the three and then we will begin to dwelve deeper and deeper into the three organizations and their possible and altogether likely connections.

Although there isn't any evidence that the CIA directly supported the Taliban or Al Qaeda, some basis for military support of the Taliban was provided when, in the early 1980s, the CIA and the ISI (Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency) provided arms to Afghans resisting the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and the ISI assisted the process of gathering radical Muslims from around the world to fight against the Soviets.^[9] Osama Bin Laden was one of the key players in organizing training camps for the foreign Arab volunteers, although his organization, Maktab al-Khidamat, was exclusively Saudi funded. The U.S. poured funds and arms into Afghanistan, and "by 1987, 65,000 tons of U.S.-made weapons and ammunition a year were entering the war

http://www.britannic...ence-Agency-CIA

al-Qaeda ( /ælˈkaɪdə/ al-KY-də; Arabic: القاعدة‎ al-qāʿidah, Arabic: [ælqɑːʕɪdɐ], translation: "The Base" and alternatively spelled al-Qaida and sometimes al-Qa'ida) is a global militant Islamist organization founded by Osama bin Laden at some point between August 1988^[16] and late 1989,^[17] with its origins being traceable to the Soviet War in Afghanistan.^[18] It operates as a network comprising both a multinational, stateless army^[19] and a radical Sunni Muslim movement calling for global Jihad and a strict interpretation of sharia law. It has been designated as a terrorist organization by the United Nations Security Council, NATO, the European Union, the United Kingdom, the United States, and various other countries (see below). Al-Qaeda has carried out several attacks on Christian churches,^[20] and other targets it considers kafir.^[21]

note: al qaeda does not mean the base... it actually means the root..moving on

[AHMAD_73]

assalamo Alykom, brother

as i know, "Al-qadaa" is the "base" and it ment to be the "base of Jihad" in Pakestan (i believe in Beshawer), where the new Arab vulenteers to fight in Afghanistan suppose to stay for 3 month, have some PTs, military training, armed and then distributed to the fighting units in Afghanistan. the Muslem indeviduals and leaders goals coinside with the USA goals to defeat the USSR at this time. so the USA urged the Arab leaders to allow those youth to perform Jihad and supported them with some finance and intellegence support.

after the war ended, some of those guys returned back to their countries with more brave hearts and more strict Islamic ideas, while the regiemes where unable to hear any different opinion specially if it's Islamic, the clachs began at the begining of the 90s. that led the rest of the Mujahedeen to stay in Afghanistan. the opposition of Usama bin Ladden to the Allies Forces presence in the Saudi Arabia (after the gulf war) led him to return back and recollect the "Qadaa" .... the role of those guys, as well as others, in helping the oppressed Moslems in Bosnia 1992-1995, Kosovo 1996-1998,and chychnya and the Taliban presence 1994-1996 inspired Usama to have a "ready to go Islamic fighting forces" to help their fellow Moslems where ever they beeing oppresed......in some reports those guys reached 5000:10,000 well trained fighters, groung in a fast way.

now the Moslem leaders didn't like that (since these forces are out of their control), the US didn't like that for the same reason and could be because that frightened the lovely Israel and later the resistance in Iraq...the US supported the very loyal rulers to chase and arrest those guys and the guys replayed by attacks....and the story continued.....

[abdullahfath]

well my imam told me it meant roots but that is trivial really...

do you have any sources to back this theory of yours? Right now what I have seen through my atheistic friend on here Al-Qaeda appears to be a CIA funded, and founded organization tracing back to the cold war against the U.S.S.R.

You might want to look up the United Nations Security Council ( specifically the five permanent members ) along with the top ten economies of the globe. The top five are the UNSC, the next four are rallying for position in the UNSC .... if one wants to control global economy the first thing they would have to do is consolidate the wealth and distract the myriad of poor. What better way to distract than through war?

[AHMAD_73]

well my imam told me it meant roots but that is trivial really...

in fact brother, it's so obvious that "قاعدة = Qadaa = Base" and the military base in arabic is a Qadaa, while "roots = جزور= gozoor" ....you may check Google transtation for that.

do you have any sources to back this theory of yours? Right now what I have seen through my atheistic friend on here Al-Qaeda appears to be a CIA funded, and founded organization tracing back to the cold war against the U.S.S.R.

in fact i don't have a specific source for that, it's about loong time readings and monitoring events. the ultimate dream of any Moslem youth in the 80s was to fight agaist the Mulhedden, atheists, USSR. as i told i can reason the supportive relation of the USA (though many political, finantial and intellegence ways) to the Mujahdeen (all sects) during the Afghan war 1979-1989, but i doubt any other later relations. generally any intelligance system will never raise up such sect of people who have a full different religion or ideology, even if they are under control some time, since if they got out of his control, he will be the looser. i believe the 1993 Somalia fightings of Quadaa against the USA intervention is a clear evedance, specially what happened to the Marenes in Maghadishou streets.

but i don't exclude the idea that the USA intellegence could penetrate the Quadaa, through a group of agents or spies, Moslem or non-moslems, who can direct the actions of the Quadaa through indirect methods.

You might want to look up the United Nations Security Council ( specifically the five permanent members ) along with the top ten economies of the globe. The top five are the UNSC, the next four are rallying for position in the UNSC .... if one wants to control global economy the first thing they would have to do is consolidate the wealth and distract the myriad of poor. What better way to distract than through war?

many many ways, to have power, collect the world's gold....the presenting of Banks, paper money, visa cards, stock markets, secret accounts, controlling reciesion and flourshing cycles, controling media, domenating the banks, dominating the military industries ............are very effective ways to gain power. mainly it's not made by a country but a sect of people who uses the strong countries (at time) to accumplish their staged goals.

to held a war you don't have to have a military presence, the diffirence in color, ethnic, religion, the need of control of power/land/resources, the historical backgrounds and old wars are great reasons to wake up through media and few number of agents. stratigic planners of the old dominating countries (Britain, France, Germany, .....) during the periods of occupation did all what is needed in dividing and plotting countries' borders the to keep these reasons alive.....

look at the map and check that,.
for example a small triangle located south-east of Egypt which is logically suppose to be Egyptian is given to Sudan and kept uner Egyptian admistration ..
"Al-Eskandrounah district" is a Serian land with Arab inhabitants is given to Turkey.....
a very big civilized country like Iraq is given no ports on the arbd gulf while a beduin un-civilized small country (at the time of dividing) Kuiwit is given all available ports...
the Kurdish people are divided by some countries by the right percentage to keep trouples.....
Kashmeer is a Moslem land should be Pakistani (according the original law of dividing Indea), is given to Indea....

all of these examples are mines left by the occupaires to be a war sources .....BTW i don't exclude our ignorance and un-civilization and not following the Islam teachings to avoid such tricks

[Padre5]

For the record, I believe Ahmad_73 has got it right in the two posts above. israel was created as a result of the Balfour Declaration at the end of the First World War, and was actually "given" the land involved because of the collective guilt of the British, French and Americans after the Holocaust and World War II. It is probably far too late to change things now, so I feel very strongly that the folks in the Mid-East need to learn a way to live together in peace. Of course, the condition of the Palestinian people MUST improve, and too few Americans are willing to attack the israelis for this. The Zionist movement is still in control of Congress as to this issue!
However, neither this nor the presence of Americans in Saudi Arabia justify bin Laden, or his jihad! And, of course, I believe only a very warped reading of the Quar'an and the hadiths lead to such violence!

Edited by Padre5, 21 August 2012 - 08:17 PM.

[AHMAD_73]

For the record, I believe Ahmad_73 has got it right in the two posts above. israel was created as a result of the Balfour Declaration at the end of the First World War, and was actually "given" the land involved because of the collective guilt of the British, French and Americans after the Holocaust and World War II. It is probably far too late to change things now, so I feel very strongly that the folks in the Mid-East need to learn a way to live together in peace. Of course, the condition of the Palestinian people MUST improve, and too few Americans are willing to attack the israelis for this. The Zionist movement is still in control of Congress as to this issue!

i believe you had a good historical trace of the problem and the US and the west and the even east don't different too much about accepting the "NOW" real situation (occupation acc. to UN). but the main stream practices of the Israilies don't show any change of their main ideology which is "stealing and occupaying more lands every day", "collapsing Palestine prperties every day, 1000s/year", "kikking out more more Palestinians every day", "killing more innocents every day"......"building new settlements on the stolen land for the American jewish citizins and give them a second citizinship, while de-citizinized and kikking the original citizins.......

i'm not taking about history, i'm talking about today and tomorow........what kind of agreements you feel the palestinian should agree on, is that of the day before yesterday, yesterday or today ??????....and i mean that literally.

away of the lands all over Palestine and in the setelments in the heart of the west bank, do you think the Israeli will stop changing demography of Quds or submet the Holy Mosque to the Moslems???

However, neither this nor the presence of Americans in Saudi Arabia justify bin Laden, or his jihad! And, of course, I believe only a very warped reading of the Quar'an and the hadiths lead to such violence!

} إِنَّكَ لَا تَهْدِي مَنْ أَحْبَبْتَ وَلَكِنَّ اللَّهَ يَهْدِي مَن يَشَاء وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ {56"

although you can find christians and Jews (historical scale successive 1400 years) live every where in the Islamic countries having their full freedum and honor, a 6-8% Christians, this very moments, controls about 40% of my country economic and have a worshipping palces (meter/individual) more than what a Moslem have, their properties and churchs are protected by Moslems (governments and individuals), ......why do you think? why do you think the Moslems in the Islamic countries didn't immitate the weasterner christians who masscared and kikked out every Moslem in Andalosia (spain), then killed and traced every semi-Moslem? held the "inspection courts" for the suspected Muslems? why no thing is mentioned in history about a similar revenge reaction in any Islamic country??!!?!?!?!?
because that what Islam taught us

i'm sure, if i asked you why did the US involved in the II WW? you will find circumstances and events that will justify that and satisfy you (while if that was the same for Moslems, that will never satisfy you!!!!!),......and mostly will be the same about "collecting and presoning the US citizins from Japanese roots in camps" and/or "bombing Japan with atomic bombs"....

i'm sure, as well, if i asked you about a specific example in Quran or hadeeth that spread "limitless/unjustified" violance and asked you about its circumstances, i'm pretty sure you will not answer, or you will just repeat what you used to read in anti-Islamic sites......am I wrong?

[Padre5]

Good grief, my friend! What made you so angry? I agree with you, for the most part. Read my posts a bit more carefully, please! And you are wrong about "anti-Islamic sites." I really hate all violence, including terrorism of all kinds, including that wich has been done for or in the name of this country! Check out my son, Will Hopkins, to understand me a bit better. Go to ZoomInfo.com and type in that name. And what the israelis are doing is wrong.... they treat the Muslims like we Americans used to treat blacks and native Americans, which was also wrong. History is too full of barbaric behavior to list it all! So calm down. Strive for more tolerance! Remember, we gather here in friendship to work for a better world!

[abdullahfath]

That is very true. I have met much hostility since I reverted to Islam and I am a white American...but to most Americans Muslim is Muslim

btw,
I must admit my fault in thinking that Al Qaeda meant root and not base, a brother from the masjid corrected me. My fear is not anyone on here but Allah as I had no intention of making a false claim and in so doing commit haram but we should get back to the topic at hand. I do not believe that Al Qaeda was inflitrated but rather that it was founded by the U.S. especially the C.I.A. and that the Taliban is a tool of the U.S.

Edited by abdullahfath, 22 August 2012 - 04:41 AM.

[abdullahfath]

I thought my friend, abdullahfath, was being a bit extreme when he stated that the CIA created Al-Qaeda. However, a very little research established some facts important for all of us to know! This article is from a website run by American supporters of Ron Paul.

"Al-Qaeda originally a computer program by the CIA
Submitted by jshowell on Mon, 12/29/2008 - 11:13
in Daily Paul Liberty Forum

http://shaphan.typep..._cook_the_.html

Robin Cook, the Database and Secrets

On the day after the July 7th, 2005 bombings on London transport, former foreign secretary Robin Cook MP wrote what turned out to be his penultimate newspaper column for the Guardian. In it he revealed something about al-Qaeda that perhaps he shouldn't have. Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan.

Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west. As far as I know, this was the first time publicly, in the anglophone world, that the al-Qaeda name had been explained as referring to a computer database.

In the francophone world, a colourful former French military intelligence officer, Pierre-Henri Bunel, had had a book published in 2004, "Proche-Orient, une guerre mondiale?", extracts of which appeared [in French] on a French conspiracy website. The extract went into some detail of how al-Qaeda originally referred to a computer database of Islamist fighters. But, AFAIK, it was not until after Robin Cook had revealed the same in the Guardian, and after his death a month later, that an English translation of Bunel's words appeared on the web. It's a rough translation, which doesn't read well. But the basic outline of his account accords with what Cook had revealed.

Here's my suspicion: that Robin Cook knew nothing about P-H Bunel's book or article, and that his knowledge of the origin of the Qaeda name stemmed solely from his time at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. In other words, that both men had, independently of each other, revealed that, as they understood it, the designation 'al-Qaeda' had originally referred to a computer database. And, according to Bunel, that that name had been operative at least by the mid-'80s. But yesterday MI5 the government published its 'narrative' of the July 7th bombings [.pdf]. Annex 3 of the whitewash was a chronology of the development of modern jihadism. Extract:

c1984 Radical preacher Abdullah Azzam set up an organisation called Maktab al-Khidmat (MAK) "Bureau of Services" to disseminate propaganda about jihad in Afghanistan. Usama bin Laden (UbL) joins.

1989 Withdrawal of Soviet forces from Afghanistan. UbL returns to Saudi Arabia. Decision by MAK to continue to support jihadist causes. Thinking around "the base" or "foundation" (translation: Al Qaida) for further operations articulated.

1988-89 UbL disagreement over focus of the cause and starts to form Al Qaida. [...]

So, MI5's version of the aetiology of the 'Qaeda' name makes no mention of computer databases, or its use by western intelligence agencies before 1989, and it repeats previous explanations as to its origins. So, either Cook and Bunel were wrong, or they were right but wrong to reveal it. And while Bunel is a peripheral figure lacking credibility, Robin Cook was neither.

When I first read Cook's July 8th article, and the zinger about 'al-Qaeda' as a database, I wondered about what secret he might reveal to us next. But now I wonder about what, say, MI6 thought about the possibility of the former foreign secretary, who had signed the Official Secrets Act for life, revealing other things that he shouldn't (if, that is, the database story were true). Then, it would have become a matter of national security. How could they prevent him from repeating his mistake? Could they have had him arrested and charged under the OSA? Did they try to speak to him, between July 8th and August 6th, 2005, to warn him as to his future conduct?

If Robin Cook was starting to spill secrets, his sudden death one month later would have saved the defence, intelligence and security services from having to confront a difficult problem, one which would have had no obvious, certain solution."

Now with this redirection...why would the C.I.A want to create such a group and what could be the purpose of perpetuating a group after the U.S.S.R. has collapsed and been evicted from Afghanistan?

[AHMAD_73]

Good grief, my friend! What made you so angry? I agree with you, for the most part. Read my posts a bit more carefully, please! And you are wrong about "anti-Islamic sites." I really hate all violence, including terrorism of all kinds, including that wich has been done for or in the name of this country! Check out my son, Will Hopkins, to understand me a bit better. Go to ZoomInfo.com and type in that name. And what the israelis are doing is wrong.... they treat the Muslims like we Americans used to treat blacks and native Americans, which was also wrong. History is too full of barbaric behavior to list it all! So calm down. Strive for more tolerance! Remember, we gather here in friendship to work for a better world!

sory for that, it was my mistake, i did understand the word "warped" in an opposite way, i thought it means fast or direct. that changed the meaning of your statment

I believe only a very warped (straight forward) reading of the Quar'an and the hadiths lead to such violence!

again, i appolegize about that.....

i feel like i have to return back my old signature

[Padre5]

Ahmad, your apology is accepted (of course) and appreciated. I don't want to anger anybody, unless they are jerks about something. Some of the members who have been banned since I"ve been here were jerks, but you have never seemed anything but very good and reasonable. I'm very glad you now grasp what I was trying to say... do you agree?

[AHMAD_73]

Ahmad, your apology is accepted (of course) and appreciated. I don't want to anger anybody, unless they are jerks about something. Some of the members who have been banned since I"ve been here were jerks, but you have never seemed anything but very good and reasonable. I'm very glad you now grasp what I was trying to say... do you agree?

i got your point of view, i hope you got mine as well...

[aknative]

i believe you had a good historical trace of the problem and the US and the west and the even east don't different too much about accepting the "NOW" real situation (occupation acc. to UN). but the main stream practices of the Israilies don't show any change of their main ideology which is "stealing and occupaying more lands every day", "collapsing Palestine prperties every day, 1000s/year", "kikking out more more Palestinians every day", "killing more innocents every day"......"building new settlements on the stolen land for the American jewish citizins and give them a second citizinship, while de-citizinized and kikking the original citizins.......

i'm not taking about history, i'm talking about today and tomorow........what kind of agreements you feel the palestinian should agree on, is that of the day before yesterday, yesterday or today ??????....and i mean that literally.

away of the lands all over Palestine and in the setelments in the heart of the west bank, do you think the israeli will stop changing demography of Quds or submet the Holy Masjid to the Moslems???

} إِنَّكَ لَا تَهْدِي مَنْ أَحْبَبْتَ وَلَكِنَّ اللَّهَ يَهْدِي مَن يَشَاء وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ {56"

although you can find christians and Jews (historical scale successive 1400 years) live every where in the Islamic countries having their full freedum and honor, a 6-8% Christians, this very moments, controls about 40% of my country economic and have a worshipping palces (meter/individual) more than what a Moslem have, their properties and churchs are protected by Moslems (governments and individuals), ......why do you think? why do you think the Moslems in the Islamic countries didn't immitate the weasterner christians who masscared and kikked out every Moslem in Andalosia (spain), then killed and traced every semi-Moslem? held the "inspection courts" for the suspected Muslems? why no thing is mentioned in history about a similar revenge reaction in any Islamic country??!!?!?!?!?
because that what Islam taught us

i'm sure, if i asked you why did the US involved in the II WW? you will find circumstances and events that will justify that and satisfy you (while if that was the same for Moslems, that will never satisfy you!!!!!),......and mostly will be the same about "collecting and presoning the US citizins from Japanese roots in camps" and/or "bombing Japan with atomic bombs"....

i'm sure, as well, if i asked you about a specific example in Quran or hadeeth that spread "limitless/unjustified" violance and asked you about its circumstances, i'm pretty sure you will not answer, or you will just repeat what you used to read in anti-Islamic sites......am I wrong?

i believe you had a good historical trace of the problem and the US and the west and the even east don't different too much about accepting the "NOW" real situation (occupation acc. to UN). but the main stream practices of the Israilies don't show any change of their main ideology which is "stealing and occupaying more lands every day", "collapsing Palestine prperties every day, 1000s/year", "kikking out more more Palestinians every day", "killing more innocents every day"......"building new settlements on the stolen land for the American jewish citizins and give them a second citizinship, while de-citizinized and kikking the original citizins.......

i'm not taking about history, i'm talking about today and tomorow........what kind of agreements you feel the palestinian should agree on, is that of the day before yesterday, yesterday or today ??????....and i mean that literally.

away of the lands all over Palestine and in the setelments in the heart of the west bank, do you think the israeli will stop changing demography of Quds or submet the Holy Masjid to the Moslems???

} إِنَّكَ لَا تَهْدِي مَنْ أَحْبَبْتَ وَلَكِنَّ اللَّهَ يَهْدِي مَن يَشَاء وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ {56"

although you can find christians and Jews (historical scale successive 1400 years) live every where in the Islamic countries having their full freedum and honor, a 6-8% Christians, this very moments, controls about 40% of my country economic and have a worshipping palces (meter/individual) more than what a Moslem have, their properties and churchs are protected by Moslems (governments and individuals), ......why do you think? why do you think the Moslems in the Islamic countries didn't immitate the weasterner christians who masscared and kikked out every Moslem in Andalosia (spain), then killed and traced every semi-Moslem? held the "inspection courts" for the suspected Muslems? why no thing is mentioned in history about a similar revenge reaction in any Islamic country??!!?!?!?!?
because that what Islam taught us

i'm sure, if i asked you why did the US involved in the II WW? you will find circumstances and events that will justify that and satisfy you (while if that was the same for Moslems, that will never satisfy you!!!!!),......and mostly will be the same about "collecting and presoning the US citizins from Japanese roots in camps" and/or "bombing Japan with atomic bombs"....

i'm sure, as well, if i asked you about a specific example in Quran or hadeeth that spread "limitless/unjustified" violance and asked you about its circumstances, i'm pretty sure you will not answer, or you will just repeat what you used to read in anti-Islamic sites......am I wrong?

i believe you had a good historical trace of the problem and the US and the west and the even east don't different too much about accepting the "NOW" real situation (occupation acc. to UN). but the main stream practices of the Israilies don't show any change of their main ideology which is "stealing and occupaying more lands every day", "collapsing Palestine prperties every day, 1000s/year", "kikking out more more Palestinians every day", "killing more innocents every day"......"building new settlements on the stolen land for the American jewish citizins and give them a second citizinship, while de-citizinized and kikking the original citizins.......

i'm not taking about history, i'm talking about today and tomorow........what kind of agreements you feel the palestinian should agree on, is that of the day before yesterday, yesterday or today ??????....and i mean that literally.

away of the lands all over Palestine and in the setelments in the heart of the west bank, do you think the israeli will stop changing demography of Quds or submet the Holy Masjid to the Moslems???

} إِنَّكَ لَا تَهْدِي مَنْ أَحْبَبْتَ وَلَكِنَّ اللَّهَ يَهْدِي مَن يَشَاء وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ {56"

although you can find christians and Jews (historical scale successive 1400 years) live every where in the Islamic countries having their full freedum and honor, a 6-8% Christians, this very moments, controls about 40% of my country economic and have a worshipping palces (meter/individual) more than what a Moslem have, their properties and churchs are protected by Moslems (governments and individuals), ......why do you think? why do you think the Moslems in the Islamic countries didn't immitate the weasterner christians who masscared and kikked out every Moslem in Andalosia (spain), then killed and traced every semi-Moslem? held the "inspection courts" for the suspected Muslems? why no thing is mentioned in history about a similar revenge reaction in any Islamic country??!!?!?!?!?
because that what Islam taught us

i'm sure, if i asked you why did the US involved in the II WW? you will find circumstances and events that will justify that and satisfy you (while if that was the same for Moslems, that will never satisfy you!!!!!),......and mostly will be the same about "collecting and presoning the US citizins from Japanese roots in camps" and/or "bombing Japan with atomic bombs"....

i'm sure, as well, if i asked you about a specific example in Quran or hadeeth that spread "limitless/unjustified" violance and asked you about its circumstances, i'm pretty sure you will not answer, or you will just repeat what you used to read in anti-Islamic sites......am I wrong?

i agree with Ahmad when it comes to the Palistine occupation. The Jews need to stop building, back out of the settlements, and pay/compenstate the Palistinians for the illegal taking of their land. This isnt the middle ages, you cant just take over a neighboring countries land to expand your own borders.