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Do You Back Western Intervention In Syria


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#21 dot

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:51 PM

If the US and the west are really keen and honest in their humanitarian initiative, all the Syrian need is to impose a no-fly zone. That is all the Syrian free army is asking for. But I think that's not their intention. They want to destroy all weaponry that could someday fall in non-loyal-to-the-west hands and possibly be used against israel.



#22 iceHorse

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 02:59 PM

dot,

 

Perhaps you're partly correct - perhaps the US doesn't want the middle east to destroy itself, like with nukes?



#23 SaracenSoldier

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 12:34 AM

I do not back the western intervention, while i know it is a dream I would prefer to see the leaders of the muslim nation grow a backbone and assist in the removal of the tyrant. But for that to happen so much must change in the world, along with the stigma that is attached to people who wish to assist the Syrian people by the western governments.

 

 

There are "leaders" who have a back bone and are doing something about it. The issue is that the Muslim masses don't view them as leaders of the Ummah. 



#24 SaracenSoldier

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 12:58 AM

I think the situation is pretty complex. There are no clear cut allies nor is the situation black and white. I think the US would have loved to topple Assad and install a friendly regime. Even though Assad wasn't a threat a to Israel or the US, his removal would have meant the weakening of the Shia alliance(Hezb,Syria,Iran) and removing Russian influence from the Mediterranean, especially the Russian naval base in Tartus.

 

The problem for the US is that the potential Pro US allies within the rebellion have been overshadowed by Jihadi movements whose interests and loyalties neither lie with Russia nor the US. Especially after the recently declared 'Islamic State of Iraq and Syria' the US would probably prefer Assad to stay there instead of the Islamic State coming to power. This is why the west is hesitant in helping the rebels. 

 

The reason why the US would want to strike at Assad now is probably just symbolic, to win support of the Syrian masses and/or they want Assad's weapons removed so they don't fall into the hands of the young Islamic State or its allies. Its sort of like a rock-scissors-paper type of complex and confusing scenario. 

 

Obviously these are just some random observations and their reasons could be different. 



#25 Guan Yu

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 05:25 PM

Who do you think is responsible for the chemical attack in Syria? 

 

There are several prooofs that it wasn't Assad:

1. Right now the frontline is stable, there is no significant risk of rebels overrunning Damascus or making fast gains anywhere in the country. 

2. The attack occurred on the day when UN inspectors visited Syria (they were invited here by Assad)

3. After the attack the US and allies quickly declared that it was Assad's fault (as if they were waiting for it) even though no real investigation was done (there will never be any)

4. The US claims that they possess an "irrefutable evidence" against the Syrian regiime but no such evidence will be made public.

 

In my opinion it was either a rebel provocation or an "individual initiative" of some Syrian army commander.

 

Obama is in a strange situation. Public approval of a possible intervention oscillates around 20-30%. If he attacks, there will be public outrage. If he doesn't, he will lose his face as an unreliable ally. Weird...



#26 Nightingale

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 07:20 PM

To be honest, Obama has been waiting for his chance to go after Iran in support of Israel. I think starting a fight with Syria that escalates to actual "boots on the ground" to prevent a repeat of Kosovo and such...in his mind...will allow him to put pressure on Iran. And give the warmongers in the US congress and their Military Industrialist allies the provocation they need to attack Iran as well.



#27 Redeem

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 07:30 PM

America's intervention in Syria is selfish and serves only the interests and agendas of its government. They're not doing it to stop Assad or to help the opposition or to avenge the 400 kids they keep referencing, but to send a message to other countries like Iran and North Korea in case they get any ideas.

 

Interestingly enough, America wasn't so eager to bomb israel over its use of white phosphorus in Gaza.


Edited by Redeem, 02 September 2013 - 07:31 PM.


#28 iceHorse

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 09:01 PM

I agree that it's complex. I probably think the U.S. should not strike.

 

That said, it's interesting to try to think of this situation without factoring in history. I'm not saying we shouldn't factor in history, but as an experiment, what if the U.S. had never had any influence or made any actions in the region. Would that change you thinking?

 

As another experiment, why is historical consistency important? What does it really matter if sometimes the U.S. responded to the use of WMDs and sometimes it didn't? Couldn't we say that every time a strong nation comes to the aid of oppressed people that's a good thing? Even if it's not consistently applied?

 

As Syria is discussed here, wouldn't it be worth discussing the positive, humanitarian interventions that the U.S. made during the Kosovo war? Interventions that had no implications about oil and that helped to save oppressed Muslims?

 

I'm not saying the balance sheet is even. I am saying things aren't always black and white. 



#29 Redeem

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:53 AM

I agree that it's complex. I probably think the U.S. should not strike.

 

That said, it's interesting to try to think of this situation without factoring in history. I'm not saying we shouldn't factor in history, but as an experiment, what if the U.S. had never had any influence or made any actions in the region. Would that change you thinking?

 

As another experiment, why is historical consistency important? What does it really matter if sometimes the U.S. responded to the use of WMDs and sometimes it didn't? Couldn't we say that every time a strong nation comes to the aid of oppressed people that's a good thing? Even if it's not consistently applied?

 

As Syria is discussed here, wouldn't it be worth discussing the positive, humanitarian interventions that the U.S. made during the Kosovo war? Interventions that had no implications about oil and that helped to save oppressed Muslims?

 

I'm not saying the balance sheet is even. I am saying things aren't always black and white. 

 

I appreciate your open-minded and amiable approach to an otherwise tense subject. If people like you were in the U.S. congress, it would be a lot easier for us Muslims to be a little less wary and critical of the U.S. Wanting to help an oppressed people is a noble thing, and it's something that we should all support. But after reading articles and listening to NPR and watching CNN for days on end since the attack in Syria, it's clear the U.S. is only looking out for its best interests. The government has made it clear intervention is meant as deterrence to make Iran and Hezbollah and North Korea think twice about crossing the U.S. in the future.

 

As long as the U.S. puts its best interests first, there's no guarantee that these best interests will be what is good for the Middle East or for Muslims as a whole. And that's what troubles me.

 

It's the same issue I have as to why the U.S. didn't act when reports of israel using white phosphorus came out. It shouldn't have surprised me. It clearly didn't benefit America to condemn and attack its strongest ally.

 

So for me, the biggest problem isn't that Obama wants to attack. It's what he hopes to gain from it.

 

Salam.



#30 IAmZamzam

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 04:34 PM

I came here so that I could spread around this link to a popular online petition: http://dontattacksyria.com/

 

I would also like to encourage all of my fellow Americans to email, tweet, and especially call up their local congresspeople. We need to latch onto them like a series of stubborn little dogs on a mailman’s route.

 

That there even *was* a chemical weapons attack in the first place has been disputed: (An alternate link can be found here: http://tv.naturalnew...1BD336C2196AD17) Imagine that a few dead housewives in the same county of the U.S. happened to have remote traces of mustard and bleach on their skin and the papers started jumping to the conclusion that they’d been gassed to death by terrorists. You’d think your society had turned into a madhouse. Now I’m not saying that the video is valid—I don’t know enough about either chemistry or the chemical investigation to say—but I do know one thing:

 

Assad *shmassad*: Wikileaks has revealed the only true reason why the U.S. government cares one whit about Syria:

http://wikileaks.org....html#efmAcfAfB

 

And we already knew about the pipeline. And the ever diminishing supply of oil and other such resources on this planet which is making the hoarding of such things an increasing necessity. And about drinking buddy Israel’s stake in this game. *They’ve* got the goods, as well as lots of financial backing for ol’ Sam. In the end the energy companies (the lobbyists in general, to a fair extent) are always in charge. I don’t know who it was that first said that as long as war is profitable there will never be peace but he sure knew what he was talking about!

 

Call. Write. Sign. And don’t just follow the link. Feel free to find stuff on your own too.

 

Wouldn't it be worth discussing the positive, humanitarian interventions that the U.S. made during the Kosovo war?

 

Please tell me you meant that sarcastically.


Edited by IAmZamzam, 06 September 2013 - 04:34 PM.


#31 IAmZamzam

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 01:19 AM

I've come up with something else. Here is President Obama's contact info. God willing I plan to write him myself--but surely I won't be the only one here to do so?



#32 Aligarr

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 10:57 AM

There will be no US intervention in Syria , No boots on the ground , no  NO-FLY   Zone .  The rebels are showing themselves no better than Assad when it come to barbarism . Perhaps it is just the outside forces but American Opinion is formed by such acts . Americans; see this as something to stay out of more and more each day . If anyone wants to check the polls , 63%  of Americans say STAY OUT OF IT .

 

 And rightly so . It is a civil war , It involves Arabs/Muslims , let them solve it or intervene if they care to . The US should NEVER go further than economic sanctions , unless attacked by entities in  another country .



#33 abz2000

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 05:32 AM

Assalamu'alaikum wa rahmatAllahi wabarakaatuhu


I just happened to come across and read a thoughtful piece on the phenomena of American exceptionalism and how it has been confusingly used and unravelled over the past few centuries, the fact that they still use such rhetoric is quite amazing for anyone who has been following events on the global stage with a keen eye, it's a bit long but well worth the read,

I've provided the first two paragraphs and linked the full article below:

One would do good to bear operation northwoods and nurse nayirah in mind when evaluating the recent claims:






Exceptionalism

Trevor B. McCrisken"American exceptionalism" is a term used to describe the belief that the United States is an extraordinary nation with a special role to play in human history; a nation that is not only unique but also superior. Alexis de Tocqueville was the first to use the term "exceptional" to describe the United States and the American people in his classic work Democracy in America (1835–1840), but the idea of America as an exceptional entity can be traced back to the earliest colonial times. Jack P. Greene's analysis of a wealth of contemporary materials has established that by "the beginning of the nineteenth century the idea of America as an exceptional entity had long been an integral component in the identification of America." Many scholars of the belief in American exceptionalism argue that it forms one of the core elements of American national identity and American nationalism. Deborah Madsen, for example, contends that exceptionalism is "one of the most important concepts underlying modern theories of American cultural identity." It is a central part of the American belief system or what Benedict Anderson calls its "imagined community."


The ways in which U.S. foreign policy is made and conducted are influenced by the underlying assumptions that Americans hold about themselves and the rest of the world. Like most nations, the United States has a distinctive pattern of policymaking that is determined by unique aspects of its national culture. Each country's historical and cultural heritage, its montage of national beliefs and experience—its national identity—has an influence, whether consciously or not, upon the way it practices politics. U.S. foreign policy is driven by a variety of causal factors including strategic, economic, political, and bureaucratic interests; international and domestic pressures; the personalities and agendas of policymakers; and the actions of other nations. However, the belief in exceptionalism, since it is a core element of American national identity, has an important underlying influence on foreign policy activity. This belief is one of the main ideas that, according to Michael Hunt, has "performed for generations of Americans that essential function of giving order to their vision of the world and defining their place in it." Although such views are not "codified in formal, systemic terms," Hunt shows that the evidence for their existence and influence can be found in the "private musings" of policymakers and, more importantly, "the public rhetoric by which they have justified their actions and communicated their opinions to one another and to the nation." The belief in American exceptionalism provides an essential element of the cultural and intellectual framework for the making and conduct of U.S. foreign policy.

http://www.encyclope...3402300063.html

Edited by abz2000, 10 December 2015 - 05:45 AM.


#34 abz2000

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 01:47 AM



#Syria: In the Footsteps of Dayton in Palestine, Americans Train “The Moderate Opposition”

Drowning in Treason and Agency to its American Master against a Revolting People who will not be Diverted by the World’s Conspiracies from Achieving their Goals

After a lot of talks were going on about the American and Western politicians training “The Moderate Syrian Opposition”, with constant calls from the traitor coalition to its masters for arming and coordination, we assume the right to wonder:
Is it the training for weaponry, or training for subversion and treason of the sacrifices of the people of Ash-Sham and the blood of their martyrs?! Since when did America care about our blood, dignity and interests and it is the mother of crime in its homeland, so how about in our homeland? How will the issue be straightened while the resonant has been announced by the Syrian revolutionaries: “America: Hasn’t our blood quenched your hatred yet?!”
We say to those who call for that or is silent: Have you forgotten “The Lawrence of Arabia”?! Or it seems that you have forgotten the crimes of Dayton and the criminals he has prepared and trained to commit various types of injustice and torture on the Muslims of Palestine to an extent that it exceeded the crimes of “israel”, but it rather reached the limit for some who preferred to be arrested by “israel” than falling into the dirty hands trained by even dirtier hands?! Are you satisfied that our situation is like that of those who get out of a muddy swamp so he cleans himself and puts perfume on it then goes to plunge into a new swamp?!

Give us a place where America entered without encroaching it with havoc, destruction, and blood baths!! Have Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia, and others transformed into heavens and permanent paradises or into tortures, moans, screams, blood, and carnage?!
What is wrong with you? How do you make judgments?!

“Friendly Fires” are killing the Kurds in Ain al Arab (Kobane). Therefore, who is holding people accountable and who’s originally responding to the denunciation and condemnation?! Before this, there was the targeting of the sincere revolutionaries, which reached many factions with some under the excuse of fighting “terrorism” and “ISIS”!! Another American symphony about “information” about the Khurasan organization on the Land of Ash-Sham as an excuse ready for more crimes against Islam and the Muslims, so who is holding America accountable for what its hands are committing against the Islamic Ummah?! Is America working on preparing “The Moderate Opposition” to be the “Merciful Angels” or arms abiding by the orders of the American master as declared by the American politicians with their tongues and not the tongues of others?!

O Muslims in the Proud Ash-Sham:
The Lord of The Throne سبحانه وتعالى decided upon this matter in His Mighty Book by describing the nature of the conflict between us and the West as a conflict between Kufr and Iman… There is no meeting point in it or intersection… So, is there anyone who takes heed or considers this?!
Allah سبحانه وتعالى said:

:وَلَن تَرْضَى عَنكَ الْيَهُودُ وَلاَ
النَّصَارَى حَتَّى تَتَّبِعَ مِلَّتَهُمْ“
And never will the Jews or
the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion”(al-Baqara: 120)

He سبحانه وتعالى also said:
:يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ ل
اَ تَتَّخِذُواْ الْيَهُودَ وَالنَّصَارَى أَوْلِيَاء بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء بَعْضٍ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّهُم مِّنكُمْ فَإِنَّهُ مِنْهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ“

You who have iman! do not take the Jews and Christians as your awliya; they are the awliya of one another. Any of you who takes them as awliya is one of them. Allah does not guide wrongdoing people.”(Al-Maaida, 5:51)

We in Hizb ut Tahrir / Wilayah Syria warn whoever puts his hand in the hand of the Americans and their criminal allies (the Arab rulers) from the wrath of The One Who Takes Retribution, The Overpowering Lord, then from the anger of the revolting people of Ash-Sham who have presented huge sacrifices to be ruled with the justness of Islam over the ruins of tyranny, and not by the injustice of those whom America works to prepare so that they obey it and become cheap tools used by it after removing the head of the system and keeping its muddy roots in control of all sorts of security and military criminal branches.

Ash-Sham is the home of the pious believers, who watered this blessed land with their pure blood. They will not be satisfied with half-solutions or any partial solutions, but rather they will not be satisfied without overthrowing the system with all of its symbols, pillars, and crimes, to rule upon its ruins with the justness and mercy of Islam in a state ordered by the Prophet of Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم which the governing system in it will be the system of Khilafah.
That is a promise of Allah سبحانه وتعالى and the glad tidings of His Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم, and who is more truthful in saying other than Allah سبحانه وتعالى and His Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم?
Allah سبحانه وتعالى said:

:وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مِنكُمْ وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ لَيَسْتَخْلِفَنَّهُم فِي الْأَرْضِ كَمَــا اسْتَخْلَفَ الَّذِينَ مِـــن قَبْلِهِمْ وَلَيُمَكِّنَنَّ لَهُمْ دِينَهُمُ الَّذِي ارْتَضَى لَهُمْ وَلَيُبَدِّلَنَّهُم مِّـــن بَعْدِ خَوْفِهِمْ أَمْــناً يَعْبُدُونَنِي لَا يُشْرِكُونَ بِي شَيْئاً وَمَـــن كَفَرَ بَـــعْدَ ذَلِكَ فَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ“

Allah has promised those of you who have iman and do right actions that He will make them successors in the land as He made those before them successors, and will firmly establish for them their deen with which He is pleased and give them, in place of their fear, security. ‘They worship Me, not associating anything with Me.’ Any who are kafir after that, such people are deviators.”(An-Nur, 24:55)

Ahmad Abdul WahabHead of the Media Office of Hizb ut Tahrir Wilayah of SyriaThursday 22nd Dhul Hijjah 1435 AH – 16/10/2014 CENo: 214/1435 AH

https://syriaupdate....tag/mujahideen/





Edited by abz2000, 11 December 2015 - 01:50 AM.


#35 ECLIPSE

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 06:27 AM

Looks like EVERYONE backs intervention in Syria , and looks like EVERYONE is doing it . EAST AND WEST .


Edited by ECLIPSE, 14 December 2015 - 06:28 AM.


#36 iceHorse

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 10:21 PM

Nope, all intervention has made the war worse. it has gone too long

 

Can you describe what you think the rest of the world should do, if anything?

 

(wow, this thread came back from the dead  :)   )



#37 iceHorse

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 10:49 PM

I mean like getting too involved an adding conflict is wrong, humanatiarina aid and peacekeeping is needed

 

Are regional leaders doing any meaningful peacekeeping?



#38 dot

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 07:29 AM

I fully support any power who proceeds to arrest or kill the butcher Bashar.