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Everything posted by 3dshocker

  1. God's Existence

    that problem in the function of yours is common sense and came off as a "well duh" when I first read it. now if only more people were sensible :D
  2. Is Sodomy Prohibited In Divine Law

    yea that was off topic but that's in response to your arrogant ways of trying to implicitly establish what you believe to be divine law as true.
  3. Well there was that one about the big bang. Any muslims on the forum wanna take that one up?
  4. Cruel Hadith

    what does not being supported by scientific evidence have to do with being based on blindness? Faith simply means that you don't need a logical proof and therein lies the blindness. As for atheism, it is supported by rationalism/logic. When there is lack of logical proof to believe in something, the rational stance is that you do not believe in it. There doesn't seem to be a logical proof of God's existence - check illogicals thread on logical proof of god to see how sad the attempt is - and this is the reason I don't believe in God.
  5. Evolution?

    alameen, the second part of what you posted doesn't make any sense? care to reword it?
  6. Cruel Hadith

    Bit of a contradiction there. Faith is blind by nature due to lack of logical reasoning. If you had a logical reason to believe, it wouldn't be faith now would it? What? Nobody likes Ghandi around here? mods note-please do not insult Allah!
  7. Evolution?

    I hope your reasoning for this is something more well thought out than "the Quran sez so"
  8. Why Are They The Terrorist?

    unfortuenately I haven't been able to agree with too much on the muslim side since you guys are very dedicated to Islam. Since I'm in disagreement with alot of the things in Islam, and since your ways of thinkg are based on Islam it's only natural that I don't accept your views as being rational. I guess you feel the same way about us?
  9. Cruel Hadith

    yea, there is, his name is Ghandi. Yes, it must be wrong to not go with the herd.
  10. Is Sodomy Prohibited In Divine Law

    my friend, who are you to determine what is sin and what is not sin? Because you are a muslim you feel that only Islam is right and everyone else is wrong, and that entitles you to label right and wrong? The right and wrong defined by your religion remain applicable only to people of your religion. You have no authority and no right to attempt to enfore Islamic way of life outside Islam.
  11. God's Existence

    I'm sure you've gone over the works of hume and come to the realization that we can't really know anything? Aside from our own vague existence anyway.
  12. Is Sodomy Prohibited In Divine Law

    yes, people may convert out of relgion into a non belief state ~ such as myself. Why would I or other non-believers follow religious rules at that point? the concept of "divine law" is meaningful to you, and considered foolishness to us secular people ~ and there is roughly a billion of us - not a number you can scratch aside.
  13. Why Are They The Terrorist?

    unfortuneately so far it's a one way street ~ I don't see too many muslims on this forum trying to understand the non-muslim side. I don't quite consider this progress~
  14. Evolution?

    you say that a beginning must exist? do you have a logical reason to believe that there is a beginning? Gravity was a law when it was assumed that Newton had it right. Just because it's considered law does not mean that it's a fact ~ science is incapable of establishing facts, they can only establish highly probable stuff. You can't get around the fact that it's a theory. The theory may become strongly supported but it can never be considered the absolute truth/law. The laws of gravity are based on the general theory of relativity, and recieves support etc every time something falls. Evolution is also a theory supported strongly by modern day evolution that is taking place (particularily within simple organisms) and it is also strongly supported in the field of paleontology. And according to national geographic and other science journals, it is also strongly supported in biology etc. (www.)"http://ironcircus/blog/000267.html"]ironcircus/blog/000267.html[/url] check out the two images~
  15. Is Sodomy Prohibited In Divine Law

    liberal views of freedom have triumphed on the west side ~ religion is not as powerful as it was during the dark ages. We try to rule with logic and reason now~it's why we no longer burn witches at the stake
  16. Why Are They The Terrorist?

    just because you think you are doing something for a certain idea, doesn't imply that you understood the idea at all. atleast thats my take on it.
  17. Islamophobia Acting Like Freedom Of Speech

    great ^_^ #1 How do you determine what is responsible speech? #2 Whats the logic behind the anti-defamation law? #3 How do you justify giving a group of people protection from insult when any arguement can be construed as insult. For example the first thing I said to some muslims after learning about the cartoon thing is "comon, it's just some cartoons no need to get worked up over it" then they said muhammad was really that important to them, I told them "you're all over obsessive nuts! what's the matter with you!?" Then they accused me of hating them! Then I said "***!? I said your all insane because I think you are insane, not because I hate you!".... #4 This anti-defamational law of yours would prevent people from speaking what they believe if it can be construed as offensive towards another race. If X who is a jew believes something to be true ~ like the hijab is degrading to women. And Y who is a muslim believes something to be true ~ like all jews are cheap. Neither would be able to say anything to the other and continue believing what they believe. Is this what you would rather have? The reason I support unrestricted free speech is because regardless of how much I disagree with someone, it is always possible that there is truth in what they say. I want them to be able to say it so that we can engage in a dialogue and find out if it's the truth. No cursing/swearing/obscenities here please (and that includes in short form) - yusufar
  18. Is Sodomy Prohibited In Divine Law

    To believe something you need a logical reason. To disbelieve all you need is lack of a logical reason. This is why it's more logical to not believe that there is a giant orange kitty hiding in a cave on the moon. When there is no logical reason to believe in something, the default stance is to neglect it as irrelevant and untrue. There are also some experiences that point to the existence of leprechauns (sp?), dragons and aliens. Individual experiences cannot be considered fact from the words of the individuals alone. Just because I'm damn sure I saw a ghost, it does not mean that ghosts exists. Also there's a key thing you have to understand here, and this goes back to the whole agnostic atheism thing. There are three stances regarding the afterlife. 1) I believe the afterlife exists - unproven, hence there is no logical reason to believe this 2) I do not believe the afterlife exists - requires no proof and is the natural logical position. 3) I believe the afterlife does not exist - unproven, hence there is no logical reason to believe this. The 3rd one is proving a negative which is generally very difficult to do.
  19. Islamophobia Acting Like Freedom Of Speech

    It was the cartoons and the following world wide protests that brought me to this forum. I decided to check out this muslim forum originally to find out why people are getting ****** over cartoons ~ and why are you against total freedom of speech? Is it because of this? You would like to avoid irresponsible usage of freedom? You think responsible speech is better than absolute free speech? maybe I'm just interpreting this wrong but it seems strange? You support responsible free speech which you say does not exist? By default then all use of free speech could be irresponsible thus making all speech "bad" by your terms? If this is not the case then how do you identify and evaluate responsible use of free speech?
  20. Is Sodomy Prohibited In Divine Law

    I agree that you can't rule anything at all due to the impossibility of proving absolutes. Your example of the afterlife however was terrible. Illogical things such as the afterlife would not be factored into a logical decision making process. If the afterlife was to be considered a factor, there would need to be a logical reason to believe the afterlife exists. I'm sure you see the problem of considering factors we don't know to be true. For example your dad could be an alien!
  21. yes...needs to be addressed by religious clergy...who...who for some reason cannot deviate from rational thinking and are incapable of implementing wrong decisions....
  22. Evolution?

    err, srry about that, didn't notice till now. but meh, theres not much substance in that quoted part of mine anyway. ...science can't prove evolution as fact, neither can it prove gravity, or electrons, or atomic structure as fact. At best these are all just assumed to be highly probable. You really should dig into the origins of science and find why this is so. Given this, science cannot prove the Quran wrong at all. However science and the quran do come into conflict in terms of what they say. The example we're dealing here with is evolution. Other examples would be that sun setting in murky water thing. The orbit of the sun, flat earth (i think) etc. I don't know enough about evolution but that is also exactly how I understand it ~ adaptation to the environment. The state of being religious or non-religious has no effect on the scientific method of investigation. Therefore you or I would be able to take the exact same approach and come accross the exact same results regardless of our religious differences. Therein lies the success you refer to. The religious and non religious factor have a powerful influence on what we conclude from the results. For example, had I discovered atomic theory, I would have finished off by saying "ooooh! this is cool!" whereas you may finish off by saying "this is so magnificent, it is a sign of gods creation!". I guess you could say the difference between a religious and non-religious scientist would be that the religious ones have a tendacy to attach "Goddidit" to the end of every conclusion. Strangely this is the exact same thing that people believe about God :D anywayz, science has never concluded that something was just there, so I'm not sure where you're getting this from. Look up the big bang or evolution depending on which ever it is your refering to. I don't Know enough about the start of evolution to take a stance on that. I think it was something about amino acids right?
  23. Is Sodomy Prohibited In Divine Law

    I think I know what you mean ~ let me rephrase that last bit The goal of a liberal society is to maximize the freedom of the individual while reducing harm to others. We take the logical path towards achieving this as much as we can. For example logic was used to deem adult pornography acceptable, but child pornography unnacceptable. Google this one, from here you can learn alot more about the liberal side!
  24. Is Sodomy Prohibited In Divine Law

    just because I posted after you doesn't mean I'm replying to you~ I usually quote a person that I am replying to. Considering that secular society rejects religion based laws (or "divine" laws as you say) I'd say you have a whole lot against secular society?
  25. Evolution?

    then I shall call them the self contradictors! :D I am not in Islam and probably don't follow the same rules you do, hence my use of the word hypocrite in this case. sounds nice. you believing anything does not mean it is true~ same goes for everyone else. I agree that that is what you are saying, I do not agree with what you say ofcourse. my friend, you are not a genuine scientist unless you have taken philosophy and discovered the origin of science. The reason that science and religion conflict is because philosophy and religion conflict. Faith means nothing in philosophy, it is all based on logical proofs and that is the reason there is a conflict between science and Islam. The conflicts themselves are blatant and obvious to those without faith. i.e. if someone says Islam and science do not conflict and then says a product of scientific investigation (evolution) is wrong because it does not coincide with what the quran says (god created adam). The logic behind this accusation is clear: science and and Islam are clearly in conflict if parts of Islam (god created adam) and parts of science (evolution) do not coincide.