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Everything posted by darla_1753

  1. Linguistic Hangovers

    Salaam, In English the relationship is there, as it is in German and (though to a lesser extent, I believe) in French. However, isn't that as irrelevent to the behaviour of the Church as the words for pig, cow and sheep? (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Days_of_the_week"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Days_of_the_week[/url] suggests that ecclesiastical Latin, ie: the language the Church was interested in, uses a numerical system. The table says Arabic also follows a numerical system of numbering. Peace and Love, DARLA
  2. If I Was A Malaevolent/mischievious God

    Salaam, He's not even arguing that it's Satan doing so. He's saying imagine that the true state of affairs is polytheism (like the ancient greeks or romans) and then to work from there... Peace and Love, DARLA
  3. If I Was A Malaevolent/mischievious God

    Salaam, Yasnov, we believe in one God who has revealed Himself to us through texts and has laid down rules for our lives in those texts. Frank is asking how we know that is true as opposed to there actually being many gods and one just being mischievous and sending down prophets, books and rules to mislead us. Quite a novel question, actually. My answer is that I can no more believe in polytheism than I can in atheism. I have faith that there is one God (etc etc). Religion isn't about 'proving' that monotheism is true over polytheism. It is having faith that is the case and living that faith. Hindus have GOT to have one, they have thousands, don't they? Anyway, I'm more familiar with European 'families' so better stick here. Peace and Love, DARLA
  4. New Cartoons Of Rasool-allah!

    Salaam, Dot, the Swedish government does not control the press in Sweden, that is why we (if the others do not mind me speaking for them) are against it. When Microsoft behaves badly, there is no suggestion of speaking to the US government or boycotting them to make them change their ways. If the publication had been in a media controlled by the Swedish government I would say boycott away, but the fact is that this paper is just a business like any other. Further, if people kick up a fuss, more people will buy the particular paper to see what it's editiorials etc are like. So not only is IKEA being punished for something it didn't do, the Swedish government being asked to apologise for something it had not control over but the one organisation that DID have control over what was published is getting a bonus in more readers, name recognition and a grant of victim status. Out of curiosity, let us say you were on a committee of a bog standard EU country drawing up new laws on freedom of speech, where would you draw the line so it was still reasonable in a European context? If you ban all pictures of Mohammed as blasphemous, there is the easy argument that the Bible is also blasphemous to Muslims. If so say it is merely 'insulting' pictures, one has to cover the meaning of insulting. Whence the line? Peace and Love, DARLA
  5. New Cartoons Of Rasool-allah!

    Salaam, I find all taxation a (sometimes necessary) theft. It's the hardcore libertarian in me. re: Holocaust denial. I think you're a crazy anti-semetic loon if you deny it, but I will uphold your right to do so. Britain doesn't imprison people on that basis and I disagree with Germany and Austria doing the same. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be annoying, I still just don't get the IKEA-newspaper link. Explain it like you would to a three year old because my mind is still saying that if people stop buying IKEA bookcases, the newspaper still won't care. If it's practical, it won't work. If it's symbolic, it seem pointless to punish A for B's 'sins'. I don't know what FFI is, I'm afraid, but I'll guess it enough for the point to be made. re: 'official national media', see, here's the crux of the matter. We have free press. Unlike half the countries in the world, it's not controlled by the government. If it *is* being controlled and we don't know about it, then the government is rubbish at controlling it! Now, some countries in Europe do have an 'official government news channel' or similar. If a channel is under control of the government and says things likely to provoke a diplomatic incident, then yes, complain to that government. However, the vast majority of media sources, including the Swedish paper, aren't so controlled. You might as well complain to the Swedish government about your IKEA bookcase missing a couple of screws as about their free media. Peace and Lvoe, DARLA ps: is the IKEA bookcase thing getting boring? I need a new one, that's all so it's the first piece of Swedish product that come to mind that you guys are likely to use. (Meatballs, which tend to contain pork, are number one, in case of curiosity).
  6. If I Was A Malaevolent/mischievious God

    Salaam, To actually get to (partly) Frank's point. Under a polythesitic system, worshippers frequently worship their gods by adopting some of their attributes. For example, Mars or Bacchus. Gods such as Pan 'glory' when there is mischief in the world and all stories seem to suggest a low attention span and a desire for instant gratification. A long term plan which stopped people getting drunk etc wouldn't really seem up Pan's street. Of course, this just assumes we're covering someone like Pan or Loki. Peace and Love, DARLA
  7. New Cartoons Of Rasool-allah!

    Salaam, My government steals money from me all the time in taxation. My judiciary uphold various HR in the face of varied opposition. But that is besides the point. Why is the ME not buying IKEA bookcases going to teach newspaper a lesson. That you'll have to break down for me as I just don't get it. If it is the lesson that 'you shouldn't have freedom of speech', remember, it is the same freedom of speech which allows women to wear hijab and niqaab, which allows the quran to be read and taught, which allows Masjids to be built, which allows us to debate its merits on this. Without this freedom one ends up with KSA and no religious choice at all, or DPRNK- even worse! As for the 'well, this is just insulting and so an abuse of FOS'. Gays no doubt find many parts of the Quran insulting, I feel insulted nearly every time I come onto this forum, everyone is insulted everyday whether unintentionally or gratuitously. There are two solutions: either we ban everyone from speaking, looking and thinking or we grow thicker skins and accept that FOS has so many benefits to a society that we've got to put up with the occaisional annoyance. Peace and Love, DARLA
  8. Al Masjid Al-haram

    Salaam, This question will sounds odd so apologies in advance. Last time I checked, the word 'haram' meant the opposite of 'halal'. So pork would be haram. Does the word 'haram' in the name of the Meccan Masjid also mean 'forbidden' so it would be 'the Masjid of forbidden stuff'. If so, it seems a little bit of a strange name for (what I assume) is the holiest Masjid in Islam. I'm sure there has to be a reason, could someone please explain it to me? Thank you! Peace and Love, DARLA
  9. New Cartoons Of Rasool-allah!

    Salaam, with money people may buy MORE expression but everyone has access to the right in the first place. Given that IKEA and the newspapr have nothing to do with each other, have never influenced each other and if they did would probably be invesitgated by competition policy, do enlighten me what is to be taught! These are free market economies, we treat corporations as legal personalities because that's what they are- individual personalities. You might as well 'teach' me, therefore, because a man 5 miles away killed someone. Peace and Love, DARLA
  10. New Cartoons Of Rasool-allah!

    Salaam, To punish one for the actions of another or to punish a country for having freedom of speech seems a little crazy to me, frankly. I'm with Anthony. When people turn it into a diplomatic incident, it shows they fundamentally do not understand the very concept of freedom of speech and a free press as it's practised in the West. Peace and Love, DARLA
  11. Do You Know Ayatul Kursi?

    Salaam, What a beautiful verse! Thank you for having the 'I'm not Muslim' option, btw, I have a mild obsession with polls but don't know how many I've skewed the results of :sl: Peace and Love, DARLA
  12. Mosques In The West

    Salaam, (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yeteconomist(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9724266"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yeteconomist(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/opinion/displayst...tory_id=9724266[/url] N PITTSBURGH, a Turkish group, pious but peaceful, decides to rethink its plans for an Islamic centre after an angry public hearing. In Clitheroe, a town in northern England, a plan to turn an ex-church into a Masjid wins planning approval after seven failed bids. In Austria a far-rightist, Jörg Haider, grabs headlines by proposing that no Masjids or minarets should be built in the province of Carinthia, where he is governor. In Memphis, Tennessee, Muslims manage to build a large cemetery despite local objections to their burial customs. On the face of it, there is something similar about all these vignettes of inter-faith politics in the Western world. They all illustrate the strong emotions, and opportunistic electoral games, that are surfacing in many countries as Muslim minorities, increasingly prosperous and confident, aspire to build more Masjids and other communal buildings. All these stories show the way in which whipped-up fears of a “clash of civilisations†can inflame the humdrum politics of a locality. But there is a big transatlantic difference in the way such disputes are handled (see article). Although America has plenty of Islam-bashers ready to play on people's fears, it offers better protection to the Masjid builders. In particular, its constitution, legal system and political culture all generally take the side of religious liberty. America's tradition of freedom is rooted in the First Amendment, and its stipulation that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...†Another recourse for embattled minorities of any kind is “Section 1983†of America's civil-rights legislation, which allows an individual who is deprived of a legal or constitutional right to sue the official responsible. More important than the letter of the law is an ethos that leans in favour of religious communities which are “new†(to their neighbours) and simply want to practise their faith in a way that harms nobody. In America the tone of disputes over religious buildings (or cultural centres or cemeteries) is affected by everyone's presumption that if the issue went to the highest level, the cause of liberty would probably prevail. The European Convention on Human Rights, and the court that enforces it, also protect religious freedom. But the convention is not central to European politics in the way the Supreme Court and constitution are in America. The European court disappointed advocates of religious liberty when it upheld Turkey's ban on the headscarf in universities. The risk in the garages Legal principles aside, there are pragmatic reasons for favouring the American way. Most Masjids in the Western world pose no threat to non-Muslim citizens; but a few do pose such a danger, because of the hatred that is preached in them. In such cases police forces generally have the legal armoury they need to step in and make arrests if necessary. Quashing extremism will surely be easier in an atmosphere where the founding and running of Masjids is an open, transparent business. As Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, once said: “It is not minarets which are dangerous; it is basements and garages which hide secret places of worship.†Will someone please tell the Swiss? Politicians from two of the biggest political parties are seeking to insert a sentence into the country's constitution forbidding the building of minarets. Measures of this sort exemplify the bigotry that lies behind much of the opposition to Masjid building in Europe. Christians in the West have long complained about how hard it is for their brethren in Muslim lands to build churches. Fair enough. But they should practise what they preach. (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yeteconomist(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9724266"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yeteconomist(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/opinion/displayst...tory_id=9724266[/url] Peace and Love, DARLA
  13. Mosques In The West

    Salaam, Thank you. Thought it was just one of those nice 'slightly different angle' articles. Peace and Love, DARLA
  14. Evil Iran Bombs Kurdish Civilians

    Salaam, Gnuneo, aren't you somewhat concerned by some social practices which seem more predominant in Kurdish areas than, say, in the rest of Turkey? I'm particularly referring to 'honour' killings and other such attitudes and practices. Whilst I say, yes, the Kurds aren't treated well by the Turks, this has improved over more recent years, should continue to do so and central goverment in Turkey is making louder and louder noises in regard to honour killings which will hopefully lead to a decrease. Isn't there a risk that without this influence, honour killings may increase? Further, and I may be COMPLETELY wrong here, isn't the PKK Marxist in some form or another? On the basis of say, EVERY Marxist state in C20th I would say should they get in charge, tehre could be problems in terms of HR etc there. None of this excuses Iran's behaviour, of course, I just questions the assumtion that Kurdistan would be a good thing for all it's citizens. For nationalistic men, maybe. Foir those who's villages are being bombed, probably (though a war is likely, IMHO, were Kurdistan to become a reality). For the 50% who are women, less so. Peace and Love, DARLA
  15. Christians Condemn Christians

    Salaam, *sobs* it was Catholicophobia.... Ahem. :sl: Isn't the world a nicer place now nearly all of us have grown up and love each other :sl: Peace and Love, DARLA
  16. Christians Condemn Christians

    Salaam, There are also the Sufis which I believe is the third significant group. Much smaller on a worldwide scale than the other two but the last census in the UK showed them making up 70% of British Muslims. Sunnis still have 4 different schools of jurisprudence and then there are groups like Wahabis on top of that but I think the 4 Sunni groups tend to rub along in the same way that, say, Methodists and Anglicans do in somewhere like Britain. However, I think the disagreements are more similar to the disagreements between groups such as High and Low Anglicans rather than anything else (ie: largely athestic as 99% of the time they're in agreement). Mainstream Sunnis aren't slaughtering each other any more than mainstream Protestants but there are always the crazies around the edges. Peace and Love, DARLA {Moderator note} This post has violated forum rule #27. Action taken. For more details, please read our (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?act=boardrules"]Forum Rules[/url].
  17. Salaam, I know there is a question every few months on Sharia banking. I was looking into different student accounts (damn HSBC) and saw a link for this one. (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetlloydstsb(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/current_accounts/islamic_student_account.asp"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetlloydstsb(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/current_accounts/...ent_account.asp[/url] If you're not a student, then they offer a different account which seems to also cover home finance and baby bonds etc (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetlloydstsb(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/current_accounts/islamic_account.asp"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetlloydstsb(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/current_accounts/...mic_account.asp[/url] Hope it's useful for you all. Peace and Love, DARLA
  18. (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetdailystar(contact admin if its a beneficial link).lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=5&article_id=84655"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetdailystar(contact admin if its a beneficial link).lb/article.asp?ed...rticle_id=84655[/url] Islam doesn't strive for a mullah-led theocracy By Mohammad Habash Commentary by Tuesday, August 21, 2007 I am often invited by religious authorities in the Gulf countries and Saudi Arabia to attend meetings that are held to urge people to follow Islamic faith and law, while avoiding any debate connected to politics or political rights. Political rights, my hosts insist, are maintained by the ruling regimes themselves, and these follow the teachings of the Koran. But recently an invitation came from the Faisal Center for Islamic Research and Studies, which actually wanted me to talk about democracy, or "good governance," as the participants called it. Until recently, this topic was taboo in Saudi Arabia, where the regime doesn't allow any margin for political debate, and commands people to listen, obey, and leave matters of government to their rulers. It was obvious that the conference organizers' goal was to revive religious and political speech in order to find a middle ground between Islamic faith and democracy. I argued that, as many Islamic scholars have recognized, Islamic jurisprudence is compatible with democratic values. Every country that has chosen democracy has come closer to achieving Islam's goals of equality and social justice. Democracy suffers in the Islamic world due to skepticism about everything that comes from the West, especially the United States. Thus, some leaders view democratization efforts as a new form of colonialism or imperialism in disguise. But the region's hesitancy to embrace democracy goes beyond mere fear of Western hegemony. There is a deep philosophical dispute about the nature of democracy. Some Islamic thinkers point to an inevitable contradiction between Islamic and democratic values. They argue that Islam requires submission to the will of God, while democracy implies submission to the will of people. This notion was clear in the writings of Sayyid Qutb, who saw parliaments as preventing people from submitting to the rule of God. Yet Sayyid Qutb's understanding contradicts the established practices of the Prophet Mohammad, who created the first real state in the Arabian Peninsula by declaring the constitution of Medina, which stated: "Mohammad and the Jews of Bani-Aof [who were citizens of Medina at that time] are one nation." Thus, social relations were to be based on equality and justice, not religious beliefs. Indeed, the Prophet Mohammad's most important political truce, the Hodaybiah Agreement between his rising nation and the leaders of Quraish (the dominant tribe in Mecca at that time), stated clearly that "everybody is free to join the league of Mohammad or the league of Quraish." Many non-Muslim tribes like the Christians of Nagran, the Jews of Fadk, and the pagans of Khozaa, joined Mohammad's league and became part of the Islamic state. All Muslim and non-Muslim tribes had equal rights and freedoms, and enjoyed the protection of the state. Most importantly, Mecca was later opened to protect the pagan people of Khozaa against the attacks of Quraish. (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetdailystar(contact admin if its a beneficial link).lb"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetdailystar(contact admin if its a beneficial link).lb[/url] So it was not Mohammad's intent to build a theocratic or religious state under the rule of mullahs. He was establishing a democratic civil state where people were equal in rights and obligations. Reconciling the true understanding of Islam and democracy will lead to a full realization of the richness of the Islamic experiment. It could also add great vitality to the democratic experiment by bringing it closer to the Muslim street. But the Islamic mainstream must first realize the importance of democratic reform, which is possible only by clearly understanding the Prophet's message, which promises genuine solutions for every time and place. Although the creation of study centers to debate the concept of Islamic democracy reflects the natural evolution of Islamic thinking, it will not go unopposed. Indeed, during one of the sessions I attended, Sheikh Ahmad Rageh of Al-Imam University responded angrily to the Tunisian researcher Salaheddin al-Jorashi: "How do you expect us to accept the freedom of faith in Islam? It is something that exists only in your illusions. We believe in a religion that doesn't bargain with right, or hesitate in creed. We believe in a religion that orders us to kill the converts. There is no place in our nation for a malevolent or a renegade." I find it hard to understand how Sheikh Rageh can miss (or ignore) the clear verses in the Koran, which order us to do the very opposite: "Let there be no compulsion in religion; "Thou art not one to manage their affairs"; "We have not sent thee to be disposer of their affairs for them"; and "Say, 'The truth is from your Lord,' let him who will, believe, and let him who will, reject." There are many other verses in the Koran that bear a message of tolerance and freedom. The mine of Islamic jurisprudence is very rich, but the problem is in the way its treasures are used. As the ancient Arabs used to say: "A man's choice is a piece of his mind." The struggle in the Islamic world nowadays is a struggle for a piece of the Muslim mind. Mohammad Habash, a member of the Syrian Parliament, is director of the Islamic Studies Center in Damascus. THE DAILY STAR publishes this commentary in collaboration with Project Syndicate (you are not allowed to post links yetproject-syndicate(contact admin if its a beneficial link)) (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetdailystar(contact admin if its a beneficial link).lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=5&article_id=84655"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetdailystar(contact admin if its a beneficial link).lb/article.asp?ed...rticle_id=84655[/url] __________________________________________________ ________________ Peace and Love, DARLA
  19. Are Muslims Allowed To Participate In Democratic Elections?

    Salaam, When I search the online Quran from this site it says: 12:40 "All that you worship instead of God is nothing but [empty] names which you have invented [42] - you and your forefathers- [and] for which God has bestowed no warrant from on high. Judgment [as to what is right and what is wrong] rests with God alone-[and] He has ordained that you should worship nought but Him: this is the [one] ever-true faith; but most people know it not [43] This seems very dissimilar from 12:40 quoted in the previous post. Would the writer care the explain the difference as it seems to be the verse most of the argument is based upon. It seems to be banning innovation into new definitions of what is right and what is wrong saying only God has the right to say 'this is right and this is wrong' Further, the context is in the story of Joseph when he is discussing theology with his cell mates and explaning the deficiencies in their religions. I can't understand how one would come to the conclusion drawn! Peace and Love, DARLA
  20. One's Covering Herself

    Salaam, My comment was merely to illustrate that hijab should be spiritual as well as physical. If a man can be certain that he himself if not deficient in *his* 'hijab' (in his mind/lower gaze) then he may comment on females. If he is not certain that he is flawless in this regard, maybe he would be better to look first to himself before considering the actions of others. Peace and Love, DARLA
  21. One's Covering Herself

    Salaam, Surely if you lowered your own gaze there wouldn't be such a big problem? Peace and Love, DARLA
  22. Salaam, Surely if someone objects to Christians building such evil and vemonous institutions such as schools, hospitals and soup kitchen (my, aren't we bad people. Practically evil, with behaviour like that) then the solution is to build them in the name of your ideology instead. The competition means the poor benefit through greater access to such services. The various religions involved benefit by having a clash of ideas and so further clarifying their own beliefs and no-one is forced to any religion through physical necessity. I have objections to the Jesus Army (yes, they really are called that) who feed the homeless people under the bridge near where I live because they ask the homeless man to say a prayer before he eats the soup. I tend to feel prayer should be voluntary and come from the heart or it's just useless. My solution? Give time and money to the *other* organisation that feeds the same guys (alternating days) but does it on the 'it's kinda nice to do it' reason. If people put the effort that they put into complaining about how unfair their/someone elses life is into fixing it, the world would be a far better place. Peace and Love, DARLA
  23. Are Muslims Allowed To Participate In Democratic Elections?

    Salaam, What is you not voting for person X means person Y won and Y sends in the aforementioned armies. I think to be on the safe side, you should vote. Doing nothing is as much of an action as doing something. It's the height of illogical thinking to claim otherwise. Peace and Love, DARLA
  24. Islam Doesn't Strive For A Mullah-led Theocracy

    Salaam, Anthony, nice post :sl: Says part of my arguement so much better than I could say it! Peace and Love, DARLA
  25. Turkey

    Salaam, 1. I'm sticking this in here because there is a fair load of random stuff. Please move it if it belongs somewhere else :sl: 2. As some (the sisters) know, I went to Turkey recently and basked in a heatwave for two weeks. For those in Northern Europe, all submissions of jealousy on the grounds of weather have been previously submitted by non-internet friends already (my response: ha ha ha). It's an awesome country, I would advice everyone to go, especially to Istanbul. I have several questions, some of which may be dumber, or less relevant, than others. 3. Re Photos: I don't wear hijab (duh!). I realise it is against forum rules to post topics of myself etc therefore. However, some of the photos that were taken are pretty amazing. Would there be any objections to me posting a link to a site like flickr with the photos on it? To me it seems similar to posting a link to bbc etc wiht non-hijabis, but go for it if you have an argument as to why I should, please. Otherwise, I'll start creating an album :sl: 4. I realise women do not have to do salaat in the Masjid and it is fine (better?) for them to do it at home. If, however, a woman is out (say shopping) and hears the call to prayer from a Masjid next to her, should she attend? (Curious). I wasn't surprised that most of the hijabi women didn't (erm, if I say 'fashion hijabis' would that be offensive?), but 'long black' (see below) hijabis also seems to ignore it which surprised me more. 5. I thought the same thing was said (in Arabic) for all 5 calls all over the world (something like Allahu Akhbar x3, Shahada and then some other stuff ). I seem to have been wrong on this as different times had (appeared to have?) different prayers. Would someone like to educate me, please? And could it just have been horrific pronunciation from the imam in the Masjid next to our hotel in Bodrum that made it sounds completely different to those in Istanbul? (BTW, I generally have a fairly positive attitude to Islam. This goes down rapidly at 5:15 am....) 6. Of the women who wore the hijab in Turkey, most wore a simple, colourful scarf in a triangle and normal, but modest, clothes. There were some who wore a long black scarf that 'tied' under the nose that was a similar length to the hijab I see Somalian women in the UK wearing (waist length) that looked like it folded up under the waist and then fell again to create the skirt. Are the 'long black' hijabis wearing it like that because the burqa is banned and they're just conservative? Or for another reason? If any of the questions are confusing, I'm sorry. Tell me, and I'll try to clarify. Peace and Love, DARLA