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Moishe3rd

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  1. For Westerners

    Indeed. My point about the Christian Reformation was that Cromwell's England was just one of many fundamentalist sects during that time period that imposed their will upon their unwilling inhabitants - and neighboring countries. Most people are only vaguely familiar with Cromwell's reign of terror - cutting the heads off of royalty doesn't seem particular alarming to us today, however - it was a brand new religious terror idea at the time. Obviously, Cromwell was an inspiration for generations of Islamists to come... Then, there was the massive death toll. It is estimated that between Cromwell's English reign of terror and his invasions of Catholic Ireland and Protestant Scotland, that this brief foray into "Puritan fundamentalism," murdered around one million people. Not a small number for the times. Multiply Cromwell by all of Europe, where the same religious wars were going on from Italy to Scandinavia, all the way into Russia; even far abroad as such similar sects such as Domincans and Franciscans murdered each other in the Name of their version of G-d and you have an entire continent decimated with over 100 million murdered. Today this translates into the same kind of religious wars; fought by the same kind of "fundamentalists;" with the same savage rapaciousness; and the same kind of potential for worldwide devastation. Except that it is now Muslims that are laying waste to each other in the Name of their version of Islam. The fact that after 200 years there are Wahhabists who have ameliorated their creed and operate as scholarly organs within the State, is not comforting. Cromwell's "Puritans" settled America also and from them evolved the most Just and Righteous version of Christianity that has ever existed on this planet. "Wahhabism" was created in intolerance; hatred; and murder of other Muslims who did not accept the creed of al Wahhab/ ibn Saud. It laid waste to the Arabian peninsula for over 200 years and twice sacked; looted; burned; and destroyed Mecca in the Name of their "cleansing" creed. In its last Jihad, it finally obliterated the traditions of 1400 years of Islam; murdering hundreds of thousands of Muslims; and driving out the Sharifs of Mecca, allowing non-Muslim foreigners to install the Hashemites far off lands, creating failed kingdoms over Muslims who were not their people or tribe. The ###### children of this Saudi Arabian jihad are either the sickeningly corrupt House of Saud or the new mufsidun sheiks who declared themselves to be the new standard bearers of fanatic Wahhabist doctrines. And, like the Christian Reformation of old - this sickness has spread engulfing the entire Muslim and Arab world as they murder each other in a struggle to Dominate the imaginary New Salafist Caliphate. The Shia, of course, have their standard bearer in the game of Madness in the form of the takfir government of Iran - the Wilayat al Fiqh - a cult created by Khomeini, the al-Wahhab of his day, and totally condemned by the Grand Ayatollah Sistani, the pre-eminent Shia cleric of today. This Shia cult has led to the Iranians - a normally both cosmopolitan, educated AND religious people, to cease attending prayers at the State controlled Masjids - Attendance going from around 50% before Khomeini to around 3% today. Unless the Muslim clerics can, indeed, change the face of Islam so that this "Cromwellian international insurrection in order to impose G-d’s law on earth" is not destroying both dar al-Islam and dar al-harb; both worlds are in for a world of hurt.
  2. For Westerners

    Well, as I cannot elicit any response on the thread I started, maybe I can comment on this one... (First of all - elided? It appears to be either a misprint or a mispeakerism...) I would humbly suggest that this "new model" of Islam - calling it Isalmist for lack of a better "English" word - is a form of what was called "Reformation" in European Christianity. The Caliph or Sultan of yesteryear may not have exercised "religious authority," but the imam or clergy could also not exercise "religious innovation." Therefore, all the various, local, tribal traditions of Islam that evolved and differed worldwide - remained local. In theory, the Caliph could "innovate." He could certainly declare "jihad kabeer," the Lesser Jihad. In practice, that rarely occurred. However, from time to time, individuals would declare themselves as the Imam; the Emir; the Sheik... the Mahdi. Generally, these individuals failed in their messianic quest and were imprisoned or killed. Today, with the success of the Saudi Arabian Jihad, one of these self declared "mahdis," al-Wahhab, has infected all of Islam with his doctrine. It took him 200 years and some massive slaughters in between, but he has now spawned many children. All of these various imams and ayatollahs and whatevers, have taken it upon themselves, over the last hundred years, the powers of the "rightly guided Caliph" to declare jihad kabeer. And, as I am sure you all know - the main target of this Jihad is other Muslims - whether they be Sunni or Shia or any Muslim who will not accept the new cult put forth by these mufsidun. The next part of this dialog is interesting - as it totally underestimates what was happening in the Christian world at the time.... Cromwell was just one figure in what came to be called the Christian Reformation. Each player in this "Reformation," took upon themselves the powers of the "Pope," and declared that their version of Christianity was THE version and therefore the rest of the Christians were heretics. Over 100 million Christian Europeans were slaughtered by each other in the few hundred years from around 1453 to the 1700's in an orgy of blood and destruction over which of all these newly developed Christian sects would have the Power.... Thousands of cities and towns were wiped out and Europe was devastated. There is no reason not to fear that the same thing is happening today in Islam. And, with today's modern technology, there is no reason not to believe that the deaths would not go into the billions with portions of the planet left unihabitable. This is not a good scenario.
  3. Four years ago, in May of 2006, I started a thread here called something like "Terrorism in the Muslim World." I can't find this thread today, so I may be remembering it wrong, but that was the gist of it. Last week, I began a thread in several different forums that I frequent called "Islam is Not Evil." I received various responses to this thread, the most virulent and aggressive against my premise was from the most Right Wing forum of which I am a senior member and with whose political views I generally agree. My purpose in posting this topic is that I am sincerely interested in the idea that I am setting forth and I sincerely desire feedback. (Especially the feedback from those who blasted me in my Right Wing forum and who believe that Islam is inherently evil. Hopefully, my post is within the guidelines of this forum and there will be people here who are willing to give me any kind of detailed response at all - positive, negative or indifferent... Thank you. Without further ado: Islam is Not Evil I keep on repeating a theme of mine every time I discuss Islam and israel and the "War on Terror," and I realized that it is time to try and state my case and request feedback. However, unfortunately, having tried to write this out over the last several years, I find that my arguments make more sense to me "in response" to someone else's assertions than just boldly stating what I have learned from my years of research. Therefore, I am using some statements or questions that were asked in order to try and get my points across. I would dearly love those who see the seriousness of the Islamist threat, to study more on the history of Islam and understand the changes in the philosophy today that make it appear that Islam has ONLY, ALWAYS, been about violent, murderous jihad, are simply new interpretations of Islam which have been invented to serve the self-aggrandizing ambitions of their inventors and proponents. This belief, that the current Jihaddi death cult interpretation of Islam is the only Islam possible and which has always existed, is incorrect. A statement was made: This is untrue. The Islamic Arab world is undergoing a great Sectarian Civil War right now and has been doing so for over 100 years. Modern Islamic "scholars;" imams; sheikhs; clerics; emirs; mujtahids; qadis; muftis; hakims; and all the other miscellany of decision makers in the mythical unity of dar al-Islam, agree on NOTHING! They have been murdering each other and fighting to become the dominant force in Islam in order to re-establish their mythical Salafist Caliphate for over 100 years! The "war against the West;" israel; the United States and the rest of the world - dar al-harb, is a pimple on the butt of their fratricidal internecine war against each other. And, if the rest of the world doesn't wake up and face this fact that Islamists and Arabists are hell bent on destroying each other, this war will indeed kill off several more billion people on this planet and leave large portions of the Earth scorched and uninhabitable. Another statement: This belief is buying, lock, stock and barrel, the drivel that Islamist Jihaddi nutbar death cultist mufsidun sell as: "Islam - As It Was and Ever Shall Be." The current Death Cult credo is an interpretation of Islam that has no basis in the 1,400 year history of Islam. It is the same as claiming that the Death Cultists who destroyed Europe and wiped out nearly 100 million European Christians during the "Christian Reformation" preached the one and only "Christianity - As It Was and Ever Shall Be." Or the Death Cultist Jews who ended up having the entire Nation of israel obliterated by the Romans preached the one and only "Judaism - As It Was and Ever Shall Be." People have got to stop drinking this Islamist Koolaid. Because- if those who are willing to fight this Islamist and Arabist Evil continue to insist that today's Cultist Crap that all of these different sects propound is the ONLY Islam - And thereby include the 90% of Arabs and Muslims who could care less; or are illiterates who believe anything they taught; or those who are just trying to remain invisible so that some crazy death cultist doesn't cut their head off; or who can only feed, clothe and educate their children by sending them off to some Islamist madrassa; or the whole host of other issues that keep 90% of humanity from doing anything about anything, Ever! - then you will indeed continue to strengthen the Crazies by insisting that ALL Muslims are Evil and Crazy. That is both stupid and untrue. And, lastly, the “laundry list†question: I included this rather lengthy quote because it sounds so plausible - it's what everyone knows about Islam, right? I mean, from one point of view, why would any Muslim want to disagree with the above, right? However, the answer to all of these particular questions is NO, not all Muslims agree on the above. Most of the world, including Muslims and Arabs, has bought into the four or five endlessly repeated quotes from the Koran having to do with Death and Violence. Everyone just loves the Verse of the Sword from the Koran: "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush." Oops - but the Jihaddi death cultists and the anti-Muslim crowd always seem to forget to include the next sentence: "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." The point being that Islam has interpreted its own sacred texts for over 1,000 years as having more to do with peace, prosperity, and striving for goodness than in murdering the "non-believer." And, today's Islamist Death Cultists classify the "non-believers" primarily as other Muslims who don't believe in their particular Islamist cult. The Death Cult of Shia Wilayat al Fiqh in Iran believes that Muslims and non-Muslims who do not believe in their dream of a global totalitarian state are deserving of Death. Most Iranians do not. The Sunni Wahhabist Death Cult of Saudi Arabia and all of its attendant children such as the Muslim Brotherhood; and Hamas; and Al Qaeda; and the Taliban; and other offshoots too numerous (and confusing) to mention, all believe that Muslims and non-Muslims who do not believe in their dream of a global totalitarian state are deserving of Death. The corrupt ruling House of Saud; the rulers of Egypt; the average secular Arab in Gaza; the Pashtun tribesman in Afghanistan or Pakistan, do not. All of these disparate elements and more are murdering - primarily each other - to "win the hearts and minds" of the masses of ordinary Arabs and Muslims in a War of Dominance. Modern day Islamic "Jihad" is a blasphemy in Islam that Islamist and Arabist death cultists have foisted on the entire world where the entire planet now believes in their madness. And, if we continue to believe in these blaspheming Mufsidun, then the world is in for more and more serious hurt. Okay, Islamic Forum, any thoughts?
  4. ~ Israels Nazi Tactics ~

    When have the Arabs called Palestinians ever responded to "international mediators?" Ever? Please give us an example. israel's response has been restrained. They haven't murdered anyone and they have attacked the government that is attacking israel.
  5. And, thank you very much for the article on terminology. This is good.
  6. Forgive me, but you have used that phrase several times and, in the context of what you wrote above in terms of free trade and the inevitability of the influence of money on all peoples of all religions, could you be very specific about what it means to "stop interfering?" I would like to address or discuss this point by point, if possible... Being somewhat of a student of history, I do not know of any examples, ever, where "the oppressed and deprived peoples of the world, Muslim or otherwise," ever, "put in place more just and equitable government." Could you provide me with such an example? Again, I am confused as to the terms you are using. Are you trying to convey that this kind of terrorism has occurred before with positive results? Or are you trying to convey that this kind of terrorism has occurred before against oppressive regimes with... no results? Please give me some examples or clarification. Thank you. Unfortunately, no. I believe that above, in the last part I quoted, you are trying to say that we should submit to the Will of G-d and never practice anything that G-d would consider unjust. Is that correct? If so, I would agree that this is the way to live for the sake of one's soul, however, I do not see how that would prevent the unjust people from simply killing those who live this way. Again, as a student of history, it has been my experience that when the pacifists or even moderates who do not want to fight in the manner of their enemies, live in an unjust regime, they are generally simply murdered. I believe that this is easily demonstrable in today's world by taking the example of Sudan. There are many other examples, but it would seem that Sudan is easily the most egregious of the current crop of unjust regimes simply murdering those that they can...
  7. Israel Cannot Rely On Europe's Jews

    I would humbly submit that the Guardian is a raving lunatic left wing newspaper that creates stories out of thin air and hasn't a clue as to what the real facts are in any case... Just my opinion... Shalom
  8. Thank you. I got the phrase from you. It seemed appropriate and I thank you for it. I suspect that if the US stopped interfering in some basic ways, like buying oil for instance, that all the great things that Muslim governments are doing with their oil revenues might cease. That wouldn't be good, would it? :D
  9. Then why not support a fight against terrorism in your own right? Denounce the United States, by all means. And then, spend the same amount of time and effort looking up the statistics on the rise in terrorism perverse people who call themselves Muslims have perpetrated. Spend the same amount of time and effort cataloguing the number of people murdered; tortured and butchered by perverse people who call themselves Muslims. Spend the same amount of time and effort tallying the number of homes that have been destroyed by perverse people who call themselves Muslims. Spend the same amount of time and effort tracking down and opening your eyes to what disgusting perverts who call themselves Muslims are preaching in the name of Islam. You would then be in a position to condemn and advise on how the United States might be able to combat these perverse people who call themselves Muslim....
  10. Turkey; Pakistan; Libya; Sudan; Algeria; Tunis; Morocco - have all been free of "foreign intervention and interference in Muslim lands" for a very long time. The rest of the Middle East and other Muslim countries have interacted with "foreign intervention" as they chose - whether allying themselves with the Soviets - as did Egypt and Syria; or with the US - as did Afghanistan and Iran; or against everyone - as did Iran and Afghanistan; or whatever... If that's "all it takes," then your "Muslim countries" seemed to have dropped the ball. Of course. Because it has already happened. Yes. It would be less than sane and quite childishly foolish for Muslims to believe that the United States dismisses killing innocent Muslims as "collateral damage," while perverts who call themselves Muslims deliberately slaughter ever larger numbers of Muslims all over the world, whether "the West, particularly the US" is present or not. The United States has never "dismissed" killing innocent people. Perverts who call themselves Muslims celebrate the mass slaughter of innocent Muslims. So yes. The United States should expect to have Muslims on their side when they are trying to prevent the mass slaughter and destruction of in "Muslim lands" by perverts who call themselves Muslim.
  11. I would humbly suggest that discussion is better than: Or it is better than other suicide attacks by disgusting perverts who call themselves Muslim. I would humbly suggest that these perverse people who call themselves Muslims and commit digusting acts of terror might be dissuaded by real Muslims if those Muslims were to condemn and even fight against those perverse people who call themselves Muslim. No? Shalom
  12. The last post I made responding to your posts.
  13. Real Solutions

    Ah well, it was too good to last... Here is where I show my natural predjudices - but, you asked for anyone's answer, so: I would leave out "small." Palestine can be whatever State the Arabs agree to control after they have surrendered and renounced violence. If the Arabs renounce violence and create a lawful society, then they will be in control of their borders. Whatever they need to defend themselves from aggression by other Arab countries looking to take them over, again. No. No and none. Well, with a peaceful Arab State that has renounced violence, I imagine that they would be heavily compensated financially by the israelis. They would probably build them new ones. No. You are writing in present time, not in the time of the mythological Arab State. In present time the PA is encouraging rocket attacks by various groups. There would be no reason to close any borders of a peaceful State. It simply couldn't happen unless israel were attacked again. So, no attacks, no destruction. Again, same answer. There would be no reason not to if the Arabs created a peaceful, lawful State. The Arabs should surrender; renounce violence and imprison or otherwise punish all those who violated this declaration and intent. The United States and India.
  14. Real Solutions

    Thank you. I agree with you. I happen to be a religious Torah observant (ultra) Orthodox Jew who also fancies myself as an American patriot. So, I have a severe problem with those "perverts who call themselves Muslim" (to coin a phrase suggested on another thread by yusafar) who commit rather hideous acts of violence and mayhem. I am, therefore, not very sympathetic to the Arabs who are currently attacking and/or accusing israel of whatever.... However, what I was positing above is what I believe would happen IF the Arabs ever actually "surrendered" and sued for peace and renounced violence. I believe that if that could ever happen - that there would definitely be a Palestinian State in a very short period of time and, not only that, but israel would be under such pressure from its own citizens and the entire world to grant any and all concessions to its Arab neighbors and its own Arab citizens that, withing ten or twenty years, the two states would end up joining into one state that would therefore lose its "Jewish" character and Constitution. I believe this would be inevitable were the Arabs ever to "declare peace." Nonetheless, based on history and what I wrote above vis a vis tribal attitudes, I do not believe that the Arabs will ever declare peace and control the violent elements amongst them that desire chaos and death. Which puts me in the odd position of praying for the Peace of Jerusalem, which I believe would, ultimately, destroy israel as a Jewish State. Then again, it's all in G-d's hands. Inshallah
  15. Real Solutions

    The Arab states are new countries hewed together from a patchwork of tribal and religious cultures. In Gaza; in Syria; in Lebanon; Egypt; Jordan; israel; etcetera, there are a multitude of different tribes and clans and different religions, even if the majority are ostensibly Muslim. Amongst those who claim Islam as part of their tribal heritage, there is everything from Shia to Sunni to Druze to Allawi to the Muslim Brotherhood to the Wahhabists... All of these groups, from al Saud in Saudi Arabia to the Hashemite kingdom in Jordan to the Allawi Baathists in Syria to the Arab Christians in Lebanon to the loose Socialist Islamism of Hosni Mubarak in Egypt, all have tribal and political agendas where there is a constant jockeying for power. The civil war that currently rages between Fatach and Hamas in Gaza is an mini example of this tribal / religious / political rivalry. This sort of sectarian warfare and attempt at domination is a trademark of tribal societies. It is a thousand year old tradition in the Middle East. For the Arabs in israel, Gaza and wherever else to break with that tradition and throw their weight behind a unified nation state, such as israel, even if it were dominated by Arabs and Muslims, would be totally antithetical to the age old power structure of the Middle East. In the same fashion that the Arab nations tried to unify (and failed rather notably) against israel, so they would try to unify to destroy this new kind of interloper; this new infidel - a nation state based on equality; religious freedom and law. If such a state were to actually succeed, it would make a mockery of all of the various sects and tribes that claim that "their way" is the only way that deserves predominance.
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