Jump to content
Islamic Forum

OneGod

Member
  • Content count

    17
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by OneGod

  1. Sikh's And Hindu's

    Once again I am astounded by the ignorance of some so-called religious, peaceful, loving people. Sikhi is a monotheistic religion. Some of you proceed to defend Islam while stating that you cannot judge the people who incorrectly practice Islam but judge the intent of the religion itself. HOWEVER, when it comes to extending the same courtesy to other religions, you fail to do so. Many Sikhs keep pictures of the Gurus in their homes not because they worship them but because they like to be reminded. You know, it's sort of like how you keep family pictures on the wall. Regardless, the religion and the Sri Guru Granth Sahib state that one should not worship in this way. One Universal Creator God. The Name is Truth. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent (Jap Ji Sahib) "The ignorant and the blind wander deluded by doubt; deluded and confused, they pick flowers to offer to their idols." (p. 1264) "The stone idols have drowned the world, and the Pandits, the religious scholars, have plundered it on the way." (p. 1371) "Some buy idols and worship them; in their stubborn-mindedness, they make pilgrimages to sacred shrines" (p. 1371) "They bathe at sacred shrines of pilgrimage, making offerings of flowers, and burning incense before idols." (p. 465) "Your idol does not feed the hungry, or save the dying" (p. 1271) These are all direct quotes from the SGGS so they are fact and not just made up off some website with its own agenda. Anyone can look these up in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib who has command of the Gurmukhi script or a good translation. These are just some of MANY quotes from the scriptures that address the negativity of pilgrimage and/or idol worship. Before you run around making unfounded, ignorant, and unsubstantiated remarks, maybe the research should be done more carefully.
  2. Hello

    Hi, I just wanted to say hello. I am not a Muslim but I wanted to learn a little bit more about Islam! Thanks!
  3. Question

    I have a question for the Islamic men out there. I visited the UK last year and went to Birmingham. I reside mainly in Western Canada where there is very little tension between Muslims and Sikhs. So for me, Birmingham was a shock in terms of its conflict between the two groups. Furthermore, it was the height of summer and I had only brought along skirts that I was wearing in London, not realizing the complete cultural difference between Birmingham and London. Now, in Canada, if a guy hassles me or hits on me, I can tell him to take a hike. Well, my cousins tried to explain to me that, in Birmingham, I couldn't wear a skirt because the guys would not consider you decent. Well, I have never had a boyfriend, do not "whore around" like many conservatively dressed girld do, and set out to prove them wrong. Boy, did I ever feel dumb. In Canada, I have never experienced anyone thinking I have lesser morals because I wear a skirt (mind you, this was to the knees...not some micro-mini) In fact, I'm usually the conservative one in the crowd of girls baring their thongs, wearing tankinis, and halters. Now, to come to the part that I wanted to know about. The majority of the guys that approached me were Muslim. A lot of them were really nice and wanted to know where I was from etc. and did not mind when I turned them away from anything other than a chat. However, there was a substantial amount that were very overbearing, aggressive, and pushy. One group even followed us to the car and I, in Canada usually outspoken, was actually frightened to the extent that I did not say a word and simply went shopping the next day to buy something other than shorts or skirts that I could wear in the summer weather. Now, I'd like to know how Islam views such a thing in terms of Islamic men behaving this way towards women who are not Muslim. I know that a Muslim woman is not expected to bare her legs, arms, etc so it may have been a lesser problem. However, just because I am wearing a skirt does not give anyone the right to treat me badly. Islamic culture comes in contact with Western culture all the time so I was just wondering what's supposed to happen since Islamic men should not be coveting women who they are not married to anyway. I'm not saying other religious groups don't do this because, God knows, they do. But I was wondering if in Islam there is a differentiation in the treatment of Islamic and non-Islamic women? For example, I know in other religions, it depends on the guy and he won't care about religion usually and will approach a woman with the same attitude despite her color/race etc and base it just on dress or her make-up etc. So if she's a Christian woman wearing a skirt or a Jewish woman wearing a skirt, the skirt will make up his mind rather than the religion. According to my cousin, this harassment happens more to Sikh women. Do you feel this is the case? Why/why not? Just a completely different dynamic than I found here where I have a large number of Muslim friends and the guys treat me no different than the white girls or the Islamic girls! Any opinions?
  4. Aisha

    I think what changes and made these things unacceptable was the advent of psychology. We also now know that children of certain ages are not emotionally ready for sexual congress and responsibility that comes with marriage and sex. In addition, we live longer. In a society where you only lived to average 4o-50, your whole life span is way less and things have to move along faster. Because we know about the psychological aspects, our moral compass has shifted (IMO) Why not? Why is it that a change in societal standards makes the previous society immune to criticism for their beliefs? If we look back on slavery in south side America during a time which discrimation against the blacks was the norm, are we not allowed to criticize it as a society with bad moral standards containing many rascists? If asked what you thought of slavery, are you not allowed to make a statement about it simply because it happened in the past in a different society? Good point. I think I'm starting to see where you're coming from. The difference, as I see it, though is that whites knowingly caused harm to blacks and degraded them and treated them badly and imprisoned them. It is a totally different case from people who are living a society norm that was not believed to cause harm. I'm sure that some whites thought that they were doing the "savages" a favor by civilizing them but most knew that they were treating the blacks in a wrong manner. On the other hand, marrying young was a societal norm where it was not meant to cause harm to the female. IMO, that would be the difference between the two. In terms of morality, it's hard to answer. My morals in present day society being raised in my parents home are different than someone's morals centuries before would have been. Heck, even different family members in the same home sometimes have different morals so that's very subjective. I think that, as we learn more about the world, we develop a better sense of what our morals are. I wasn't really sure what you were asking!
  5. Hi all! I don't read Arabic and I was wondering what most people would recommend as a good translation of the Qu'ran. I just wanted all of your opinions on what would be the best translation because I know there are some poor ones out there and I don't want to buy one which is largely biased. I know there will be a little bias in every one but I want the one with the least amount. Hope you can help!
  6. New Article At Islam-sikhism Site

    Oh...didn't you say that you used to be a Sikh? You must not have been a very good one if you don't even know your basic scripture? As you can deduce, there is a hint of sarcasm there. I'm questioning whether you were ever a Sikh or if you are just pretending you were one, for what purpose I know not.
  7. New Article At Islam-sikhism Site

    I guess I can say the same to you. Please look at Sikhism first and then at Sikhs. Religion is not always practiced the way it is meant to be. I was just pointing out how meaningless your deduction was by using one phrased the same way. Just because some women choose to dress a certain way doesn't mean that is what is proposed by Sikhi. The SGGS states "People are entangled in the enjoyment of fine clothes, but gold and silver are only dust. They acquire beautiful horses and elephants, and ornate carriages of many kinds. They think of nothing else, and they forget all their relatives. They ignore their Creator; without the Name, they are impure.†It also states 'Friend, all other wear ruins bliss, That which to the limbs is torment, and with foul thinking fills the mind." I think that from those two quotes you can clearly deduce as a logical thinking person that as a Sikh one should wear plain, simple, free-flowing, comfortable, modest clothes. As I've stated before, Sikhi does not give you specific rules to follow in a transient world. It shows you a path and it is up to you to follow that path. For some, this is the way religion works for them. Others need set criteria so one is not necessarily better than the other. I would not claim to know the Qu'ran (since I cannot read Arabic) and I definitely would provide a translated reference if I was making claims about Islam. I think my finding these two quotes negates your sentence that "...there is nothing mentioned about how to dress during your visit to Gurudwara or anywhere else in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji" so that's one of the MANY mistakes on that site to which you keep referring. I still think that site is a travesty and I can refute 90% of the trash that is on there. If you want to go post by post, we can do it over the next umpteen months. One is checked off anyhow. Lastly, I still believe that nothing should distract you from prayer if you intend to pray. My example was just that, a hypothetical...practically, it shouldn't happen Regardless, I guess it comes down to how you pray. Guru Nanak Dev Ji said that you shouldn't have to be in a specific place to recite the name of God or pray. You can do it anywhere. When I pray, I close my eyes and close out everything around me so in order for me to actually notice these distractions, I would probably have to be touched. If one prays with their eyes open or does not meditate as deeply as I, perhaps you are right, they may well notice smells or clothes. I feel personally, for myself, that if I'm noticing what a person is wearing or how they smell, I'm not really into praying too much if I can let such little things distract me. That's my personal opinion. I can understand that yours is different. The thing with mine though, it doesn't require that anyone change but me. It puts the power in my hands and nobody elses.
  8. Aisha

    3d shocker - I don't think you understand what I'm saying at all. Either that or you are not reading my posts carefully enough. What was acceptable in the past may not be acceptable today (ie. intercourse with children) However, because of that we cannot judge someone's actions in what was accepted and common practice in the past by today's standards. For example, in the past, people believed that the world was flat. Well, today we know that is not true. Despite this, we cannot say that all those people were idiots because they simply did not know any better. If today somebody walked around stating that the world was flat, we would be justified in thinking he was an idiot. Likewise, if a new religion arose whose Prophet felt it was ok to have intercourse with children, that would also not be acceptable. Although we recognize it as a negative quality presently, I'm sure it wasn't seen as stigmatic back then so we can't judge from our vantage point. Subhaanallah - I'm going to take your response to my post as how you meant it. Being a relatively bright individual, I can see that you're attempting to discredit Sikhi. Let me start by stating that yes, you are right. I don't consider Guru Nanak Dev Ji to be a prophet. I do not take it as the insult that you intended. I'm not a fundamentalist, baptized Sikh in the context that Guru Gobind Singh Ji intended so I'm not going to argue that with you in the slightest. However, I also do not believe there are any real prophets, sons of God, etc. Only very spiritual men who are all (including us) children of God. Of course Guru Nanak Dev Ji was not perfect, he was simply a good man who tried to be the best he could. I would say that about Jesus as well and Muhammad(although baptized Sikhs/Muslims/Christians would passionately disagree and here would arise the kerfuffle as staunchly religious folk of ANY religion are usually too set in their ways to see that there are different points of view and we can all have them without hating one another or insulting one another's beliefs. you'd have fundamentalist Muslims talking about Muhammad's miracles and fundamentalist Christians talking about Jesus' miracles and fundamentalist Sikhs talking about the Gurus' miracles, etc.) I'm sure that the person I've studied Guru Nanak Dev Ji to be would have been the first person to say that he is far from perfect and that there's always room for improvement. And you're right, Guru Nanak Dev Ji worshipped one true God who was unknown to us. Um, are you really so hubristic to think that you actually know who/what the real God is? Do you offer proof? If so, you should publish and quickly as I fall to your feet and follow any religion you wish to espouse. That is what I find so wonderful about my version of Sikhi...we are people, we make mistakes, we don't know all and sometimes we're not meant to. We don't know God on a personal basis. Our goodness is a search for that truth. As to your other question...HUH? What does it mean? I don't know if you've read any of my other threads but Sikhi and the Guru Granth Sahib does not give one a set of rules to follow that are transient and ever-changing. While "Do not steal thy neighbour's goat" may have been a valid concern in 1500 Punjab, it sure as sugar isn't that pertinent in 21st century Canada. The Gurus recognized that time changes...what is valid/lawful/acceptable changes but human nature and the nature of goodness does not change. Sikhi doesn't provide you with hard and fast rules and guidelines. It simply shows you what qualities you need to be a good person and if you, having free will, follow them, you will be at peace with yourself and be a use to others. If you choose not to, that also is your free will. While the age of 14 may have been a great age to get married in that time, in Canada now, you can marry at 23 or 24 etc. so that question isn't even really applicable because the two religions are completely different in terms of how they are practiced and what their definition of spirituality is. Just because something is different, it should not mean that you run from it in fear or bash it in ignorance. There is good in everything and we, as people commonly living on this beautiful rock called Earth, should try to see that goodness and learn from it. Which, ultimately, explains what I'm doing here. I'm not here to convert. I love Sikhi. But heck, if Guru Nanak Dev Ji could learn from Kabir and other sufi mystics, I can sure learn from everything around me. Islam interests me the most because of Pakistan's proximity to Punjab and historical Mughal presence in India. So now I'm curious (and notice, I do not make any negative remarks about Islam because I think it is rude and disrespectful to put down anybody's beliefs - unless they are blatantly harming others!) So back to that curiosity...does the Qu'ran actually give an ideal age for marriage? I'd be interested to know.
  9. Question

    Illogical, I guess I can take it as a compliment so that's one good thing and you're right, it's always nice to have a handsome man say hello (except for the scary ones!) and I do see the argument behind modest dressing. You are right about the skimpy dressing drawing more attention. Like I said, in Canada, it's positivley conservative in some circles (especially since I was wearing a long-sleeved top!) so I didn't really think it was immodest. It was loose and not tight-fitting at all. However, when in Rome.....so yes I should have believed her. The Qu'ran does say then, that both men and women should be modest and cast their eyes downward. Therefore, it shouldn't really matter what I wore though because these men, being real Muslims, shouldn't have been looking anyway right? I just didn't think there were still Western countries where women are judged solely by what they wear (unless they're prancing around in underclothing!) and I feel the men should take responsibility for their role as well and not just pass it off as "If she wasn't wearing that, I wouldn't have....." So my next question would be...would you still consider these types of men Muslims or are they unbelievers? What about those who drink or go to the bars or smoke but were born into Islam? And do you think these types of people would have approached me the same way if I were wearing trousers?
  10. Understanding

    The only thing that I can say comes form a humanistic perspective. Many people in your life will teach you things (some good and some bad) and many people will come in and drift out. You don't want to spend the majority of your time on this beautiful place called earth with someone who berates you or makes you feel bad about yourself (no matter what they do afterward to make up for it and be nice!) There are many nice men out there who will treat you with respect. The people who respect you and are open-minded will be the ones you learn most from because you really learn and assimilate information when you are able to question and reconcile things in your own head through questioning and dialogue. This can only occur if you feel safe enough in your relationship to allow it to occur. Nobody on this earth can make you feel lesser without your permission. Don't give your permission. You can have so much more to offer the world when you are in a positive mood. He's not worth your time. There's only so long you can pretend to agree with everything he says to keep peace in the house. I know that many women are taught about sabr and endurance but this is not going to allow you to experience happiness on this earth and acquire knowledge and exhibit curiosity and excitement. It will only go so far before anger erupts into something more and before you become tired of parroting back like a mindless bird. Let him go.
  11. Aisha

    I don't think that people are arguing that, in this day and age, sex with a child is absolutely wrong. However, in that day and age, it may have been common practice. For example, personally, I am disgusted by genital mutilation; however, many women who practice it as part of their culture will vouch for it's practice. I have no place or space from which to judge the practices of a completely different culture much less a completely different age. It is called cultural relativism. What is wrong in our eyes relative to our culture may be right to another relative to their culture. It's not about the perfection or imperfection of humanity. Personally, I don't believe prophets, disciples, etc in any religion are perfect. That's what makes them human (and interesting/charismatic). However, you can't argue this one same point (or rather re-argue ineffectually) because it's not from your time/space. Until you can address this dichotomy between where you come from and where they came from, you can't be effective in your contention.
  12. How Is This Peaceful?

    I think it's so funny that when Muslims commit acts of terrorism, there's so much publicity about the "evils of the brown race" yet when Christians rolled through so much of history converting and pillaging and eradicating and missionizing (OK, I know thats not a real word!) that nobody ever thought to say "Hey, these Christians are an example of the evils of the white race" Why is is when a minority commits a crime, the whole community is responsible but when a white does the same, it's individual responsibility? ie. Timothy McVeigh, George Bush, etc
  13. New Article At Islam-sikhism Site

    You know what, I came to this site seeking to find out more about Islam because I thought, as a religion with such a large following, it must have something good to offer. I still think it does, however, I do not think that I will find it here where it is openly condoned to write such nonsense about other religions. My Sikhi teaches me that every religion has value. Kabir has contributed to the Guru Granth Sahib as has Guru Nanak Dev Ji. It saddens me that every link to this site leads to a false statement or misunderstood statement about Sikhi. Yes, Sikhs believe women are equal to men. Of course there are physiological differences; however, the religion states that women can do anything that men can. The reason some Sikh men and women dress the same is to promote such equity. Women can battle as well as men as is witnessed by Mai Bhago, etc. If Islam states that there is a difference and the genders should have their own aptitudes, that also is a valid argument. But you cannot say that one is right and one is wrong. They are just different. PS. The women of whom you speak (the ones that dress up to go to the gurdwara, etc) are usually there for a wedding (I've been to plently of Nikaahs where women dressed up provocatively...Australia, UK, Canada, USA) I personally believe that if you are in a place to pray, nothing should distract you from that purpose and if you are so easily distracted, it's your mind that needs adjustment. Unless a woman is prancing around nude in front of you, you should be able to do what you came to do.
  14. New Article At Islam-sikhism######

    I forgot to say that I feel Sikhi is not about laying down a strict set of rules to follow that quickly become outdates as the world rapidly changes, but is instead about giving advice on how to live your life, and we, as humans with free will, have to choose to act accordingly. Oh, I was also going through the rest of that site and there is so much wrong with it, that it is a little bit scary in it's ignorance. For example, in the section of the "Impossible God" there is a statement about the inaccuracy of the Sikh religion based on contradictions. Sikhi believes that God is in everything: in fire and water (contradiction), in earth and air (contradiction), formless yet found in everything (contradiction)...etc. etc I could keep going but I won't. HOWEVER, the main point is that we, as humans are unable to grasp exactly what God is so it's everything and nothing all at the same time. Is the contention that Islam (or any other religion) can give a precise definition of God? If so, wow, that's hubristic. If not, some tolerance please and understanding from those themselves who have been oft misunderstood.
  15. New Article At Islam-sikhism######

    I don't know what the point of this post was but I don't believe real Sikhi is about laying down the law about how people should live their lives. That line from the Adi Granth illustrates that if man and woman are one light (soul) in two bodies, then they are equals. Guru Nanak Dev Ji (in Asa Di Var) states that: We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. We grow up stronger and wiser having drunk milk from the breast of woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to Kings? The woman is born from woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman. From reading these (and other such scruptures) it is evident that the intent was to provide women with equity. It was not to address every aspect of life that was present historically. During that time period of which you speak, forced marriage was not a concern. Indian women married who their parents chose. There was no concept of love or choice. Both men's and women's fates were decided by who their parents thought would be a good match, either for financial reasons or familial connections. The gurus recognized the inequity of dowry (or financial motives) for marriage and wrote: Any other dowry, which the perverse place for show, that is false pride and worthless gilding. O' my Father! give me the Name of Lord God as a gift and dowry. This was so that women were not being "sold" with the spoils going to the highest bidder. Again, parental choice of marriage partners was common in ALL religions in India at the time. This was NOT a cultural concern. It was the cultural NORM. If you are going to post hateful remarks about other religions, at least make an effort to get them right. I think it's very sad that we minorities are so busy making fun of one another, looking for negativity in one another's religions and cultural practices that we are failing to join together against the ever-increasing threat of white racism. As my gurus would say, I ask forgiveness for anything that offends for it was not meant in that manner.
  16. Aisha

    To those of you who aren't getting it, I don't think that you can ask the question "What would you do if I married your 13-year old sister, etc.?" because we are now living in 2006 in a completely different age than the Prophet Muhammad. What may have been normal at that time is not normal to us now. So to answer your question, right now, I would be sickened that anyone could even imagine having intercourse with a 10 year old, or a 13-year old, or even a 19-year old and I can't imagine why the age of consent is so young. It makes me sick that we don't allow our children to be children for long. However, in the past, who knows? I may have loved the chance to have my 12-year old daughter married to a man who commanded such respect. I don't understand it but, frankly, I don't have to. If you believe that people's cultural practices are their own, no matter how foreign to you, you have to realize that there are some things that will not make sense to you and move on.
×