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bungalow2

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About bungalow2

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  1. Seperate Religion And State?

    Umm, you have shown a verse saying that humans develop from "a clot of congealed blood", and you have shown a verse saying that humans are formed out of "an extract of clay". Which of these utterly contradictory (and both wildly incorrect) ideas does the Koran really mean? ######, Islam does not allow free investigstion and argument because it does not allow you to decide to no longer be a Muslim. It's like saying that someone in jail is free because they are allowed to discuss the outside world.
  2. Islamic State Today

    Yes, they ultimately make their own decision about which authority to believe. But how does this work in a State? Surely it often happens that the views of the State as to what constitutes correct Islamic practise and the views of individuals differ. For example that is exactly what is happening in Egypt today. The response is assasinations and bombings. Why would the Caliphate be any different? The Taliban has shown that it has no compunction in killing teachers who teach girls. Would girls go to school in the Caliphate? If so, why wouldn't the Taliban continue to kill teachers?
  3. Islamic State Today

    Ahmed Sharif, there are different legal systems in the West, and many more in the East, North and South which are not Shariah. You cannot just say "in Western society". From my knowledge (reasonable) of the legal system in my country, the judge does not give his/her judgement then quote the law. I'm not actually sure what you mean by this, actually, but rest assured that in my country's legal system (blend of statute and British-derived common law) the judge does absolutely nothing which does not conform to the law. It may be impossible for humans to entirely leave off their individual views, but as far as it is possible the judge does so. If the judge happens to be on the High Court and in the majority, his/her interpretation is binding and is accepted as binding. I'll ask again, if the Caliphate's TV station plays music , or if the Caliphate's schools teach music, will all Muslims agree? If they don't, how will they respond? We already know how the Taliban would respond.
  4. Seperate Religion And State?

    Actually, the first verse could quite easily be seen as advocating passive contemplation, a la Buddhism; the second has nothing to do with gaining knowledge except in the negtive sense that we have learned that people are NOT formed out of a clot of congealed blood, and the Koran is thus wrong. But you do have a problem, ######. If (as someone else posted) Islam gives rules for every second of everyone's life, then there is absolutely no room for questioning, hypothesizing or even enguiry as to the benefits of the rules. I think the sudden change of the rule about alcohol (which, by the way, proves beyond doubt that the Koran is not infallible) shows this beautifully. Before the change Muslims would have argued to the death that alcohol was permitted; after the change they would argue to the death that it isn't. How can you have any self respect in that sort of system?
  5. Islamic State Today

    So, if the Caliphate's TV station plays music, will everyone accept that this is a correct interpretation of the Koran? And it's also why we see appeals to higher courts, ending in the court of final appeal. What that court says is the law. What is the law in a Caliphate? If any interpretatuion is valid, no interpretations are binding. Thus there is no law except the mob.
  6. Islamic State Today

    No, you have failed to read my post. Perhaps the law in the British (and other) system does come down to the individual opinion of a judge - actually, the individual opinions of the High Court or the Privy Council or whatever the highest body is in the particular system - but that opinion holds. Once the highest body has made its determination, that is the end of the argument. It is the law. That isn't the case in Sharia - the arguing goes on forever. Imagine that there is a Caliphate. Imagine that the Caliphate has a state TV station. Would that station play music? If it did, some Muslims would blow it up. Yet many other Muslims would say that music is acceptable. Where is the final authority? By the way, a religion or a legal system that " tells us how to live every second of our life" is a hideous perversion of the human spirit. Ugh! You really should try freedom. It's the best way for humans. edit - typos.
  7. The "moon Landings"

    For having to put up with your nonsense? Thanks, but I find it entertaining, especially on this topic. But just in case you have a scrap of reason - tell us what evidence you would acdept to convince you that the Americans had landed on the moon. Actually, here's a challenge - imagine that you were employed by NASA during the moon landings (assuming that they really happened), and your job was to make sure that future generations would believe that the landings had happened. How would you do this? What evidence could you leave that would convince the sceptical, such as ######?
  8. Seperate Religion And State?

    *sigh* yes, Islam is "a complete system", therefore Islam is a political system as well as a religious system. And my point stands - it is not possible for Muslims to debate modes of government because they have no choice but to accept the mode they believe their god dictates. And on a broader scale, it is theoretically not possible for Muslims to debate anything because their "complete system" is supposedly perfect and also because to question this "complete system" would be blasphemy. Of course in reality there is no consensus nor any means of achieving consensus on just what the rules actually are, so you have constant squabbling and sects.
  9. Seperate Religion And State?

    Yes, Islam is a political system as well as a religion. And because Muslims are not allowed to question Islam, they are unable to argue about political issues such as the separation of Church and State. To do so would be blasphemous. In fact, as Muslims believe that the Koran contains all knowledge, and as they believe that to question the Koran is blasphemous, Muslims are not allowed to argue about anything if arguing involves (as it almost always does) hypothesising. No wonder they get so frustrated and violent so quickly. While I agree that there might be different ways of viewing the world, there is (broadly, with quibbles among experts) no argument about what constitutes logic. But give me your definition of logic, anyway. {Moderator note} This post has violated forum rule #14. Action taken. For more details, please read our (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?act=boardrules"]Forum Rules[/url]. Non-Muslims are kindly advised not to use "Islam is.." in their discussions. We expect non-Muslims to use "Is Islam.." in question form. Non-Muslims are welcomed to learn about our religion and ask questions, not telling us what it is. Thanks.
  10. Islamic State Today

    Sorry, I don't understand your sarcastic criticism. My point is that in every legal system I can think of, except Sharia, there is a definitive ruling available. True, this can change but while a ruling is in force there is no argument that this is the law and it must be followed. It's what's known as The Rule of Law. As you yourself have said, there is no equivalent in Sharia, and it basically comes down to individual opinion. As we've seen in Khartoum lately, individual opinion is a rotten way of running a legal system. Perhaps it's this lack of a legal system they can respect which causes Muslims to resort to riots and hysterical calls for death as a normal response to problems?
  11. Islamic State Today

    Well, the US Supreme Court has the ultimate responibility for American law, and is the accepted final authority. In that sense the US Supreme Court (and the state Supreme Courts if you want to be picky of jurisdictional matters) has 'total knowledge' of US law. That's the case in every other legal system I can think of, except Shariah. So, in a Caliphate what do you do when scholars disagree or non-scholars disagree with scholars? Burn down a few buildings?
  12. Actually, I haven't heard people described as conservative Muslims. The dichotomy seems to be between moderate and fundamentalist.
  13. Seperate Religion And State?

    Anyway, back on topic ... I see this question as impossible for Muslims to consider objectively, as their god and prophet have specifically told them that Islam is a political system as well as a religion. To deny it would be blasphemy. Like so many things that Muslims pretend to discuss, it is based on irrational belief and a fear of hell, not argument, proof and logic. Muslims are not alone in this, of course, but they (currently) are the perveyors of the most nonsense in the world. Regarding my earlier point that religions do (sometimes) oppress - it's telling that none of the angry responses actually deny this, they just do the very, very familiar "Yeah well, so does Teh West" cop-out. That is not actually an argument.
  14. Islamic State Today

    So why doesn't OBL obey their rulings? Why doesn't the mob in Khartoum? Why didn't they stop the Iran/Iraq wars? It seems to me that you are postulating an ideal then saying that problems occur because people don't accept your ideal. If there genuinely are indisputable rulings, why aren't these referred to by all Muslims?
  15. The "moon Landings"

    Yasnov, you've now passd over into the realm of farce.
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