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Everything posted by fallow

  1. Torture In Hell

    It's enough that a self-aware supreme being might question his/her motives for creating people in the first place, and it's surely enough that a sensible human would despise this god, even if out of fear they did not do so openly.
  2. Seperate Religion And State?

    I appreciate what you're saying but I dispute your figures (which is sort of beside the point, I realise, but it's also an example of the "think of a number and triple it" school of victimology). I doubt that "the West" has killed tens of millions of Muslims in, say, the past 500 years. Even if you attribute a death by a Muslim suicide bomber in Baghdad to "the West" I doubt that the figure is anywhere close. By the way, Russia is not part of "the West".
  3. Bhutto Killed In Bomb Attack

    So much for the 'kill a Muslim and you kill the whole world", and "one drop of Muslim blood is worth more than" erm something-or-other. It's a huge problem for Islam that there's no recognised leadership - one or two people might condemn this sort of speech but it will only be as individuals, and the extremists will be able to dismiss it as such.
  4. That basically says that the less the ability a person has to make a free choice about suicide, the less there is culpability for it (in fact. IMHO it ceases to BE suicide in a moral sense). Very sensible. Isn't that pretty much the Islamic position on this (and on any other sin)? That there has to be intent?
  5. Iraqi 'freedom Fighters' Torture Chamber Found

    ######, if you are citing the UN as proof that the invasion was illegal (I agree with the UN that it was illegal), you have to also cite the UN recognizing the current Iraqi governemt as legal (I agree with the UN that it is legal). What would be the quickest way to get the US military out of Iraq? For the "freedom fighters" and crazy jihadis to stop killing innocent Iraqis. Your definition of 'genocide' is incorrect. Please be more careful about throwing around this highly-charged word. Also, more importantly in the long run, using it incorrectly devalues it and by extension makes light of the crimes properly described by it. That in turn makes those crimes more likely to recur.
  6. How The Fbi Framed A Muslim Charity

    Examples, please?
  7. Bhutto Killed In Bomb Attack

    Thinking about female leaders ... in Europe, anyway, it's harder to find a poor female leader than a good one. Elizabeth I (and II if you allow that the head of state is the leader, and if so, Victoria is arguably the greatest leader Britain has had), Catherine the Great ... Poor ones? can't think of any, off the top of my head.
  8. Bhutto Killed In Bomb Attack

    I've noticed some calling her an apostate (and thus deserved death) - if she actually was an apostate, how could she have hoped to do well in elections in Pakistan?
  9. {sniff} Are You A Zionist?

    So, you are saying that the Palestinians should continue in their current miserable position, commiting futile acts of violence and suffering reprisals (and vice versa if you insist), forever. You know that israel cannot be defeated, yet you refuse to consider the only other option, which is negotiation. Nelson Mandela did it, why can't the Palestinians?
  10. {sniff} Are You A Zionist?

    What is the point of that? We already know that you hate israel. The question is, how do you help the Palestinians? Is it not possible for israel to be militarily defeated. So there is no choice but to negotiate. A two-state solution is the only realistic option on the table. The sooner a two-state solution is negotiated, the sooner the Palesinians will begin a better life. Encouraging hatred and violence against israel just means that the Palestinians remain in a comfortless limbo.
  11. Iraqi 'freedom Fighters' Torture Chamber Found

    Well, no, not according to international law. The current Iraqi government is recognised; it is legal. Most Iraqis are being killed by other Muslims, including "freedom fighters". You REALLY MUST take care of the words you use! The word 'genocide' has a specific meaning, and could not possibly apply to a relatively few civillian death in an attack on a town. You make your argument ludicrous by misusing words like that. You are laughed at, and by extension the people you want to help are laughed at. It does them worse than no good. Not really. In the world of international law, the current Iraqi governemnt is a legal government. The current Iraqi government is entitled to call on international assistance to defeat rebels and foreign fighters who are trying to start a civil war. The Iraqi people voted for the current government. The "freedom fighters" are trying to take the country away from the Iraqi people.
  12. Torture In Hell

    If he doesn't exist, who are you responding to?
  13. {sniff} Are You A Zionist?

    Who said that? Didn't you read my post? What perentage of atrocities attributed to Muslim groups (and usually claimed by them) do you think are actually false-flag operations by the CIA and Mossad? 90%? 50%? 10%? How do you decide that an atrocity is really by a Muslim group or actually by false-flaggers? You stolen car analogy actually tells me that Jews have the right to all of Jerusalem, since they built it and first owned it. Who said I loved israel? I am quite fond of secular Jewish culture, true, but that doesn't translate to loving a nation. I do criticize israel for holding onto the land it won in battle in 1967. That is irrational, I agree, as I don't criticize most other countries for their current boundaries, even though most of these were won from their neighbours in wars. However, I quite agree that israel cannot negotiate with people who are commited to the total destruction of israel and (some of them) the total destruction of all Jews. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, you will never defeat israel by force. So negotiation is your only option. So screaming obscene racism such as 'The Protocols...' and blaming "Zionists" for every crime committed by Muslims is crippling your only option. The greatest political success story of the 20th century was Nelson Mandela's almost bloodless victory in the battle against apartheid. (And no, nothing done to the Palesinians has been in the same league as the horrors inflicted on the majority in South Africa under apartheid.) Why on earth aren't the Paletinians and their friends trying that path?
  14. Iraqi 'freedom Fighters' Torture Chamber Found

    I agree that the invasion was illegal, I agree that the occupation up to the point of free elections and UN recognition was illegal. As of now there is a quasi-legality to the Iraqi government. As of now, Mulsims slaughtering Muslims is the main problem in Iraq. However, I cannot see that anything especially bad happened at Fallujah. It must be remarkable in the history of warfare that a city was warned that it was about to be attacked (and, what must have been obvious to any sane person, defeated) and the civillians told to leave.
  15. {sniff} Are You A Zionist?

    I'm sure that the intelligence agenices, police forces and armies of every country in the world, and every country that there has ever been, sometimes commit horrible crimes. It would be nice if they stopped doing it. However, to go from this to assuming that every atrocity for which Muslim groups claim responsibility is the work of Mossad or the CIA is insane.
  16. Torture In Hell

    R: Uhh, it does. Ignoring the laws of say, seatbelts matter. Ignoring the laws of drunk driving matter. Need I go on? S: Conceded. Don't know why you conceded that. This is a quibble, but your point was that ignoring a law is not a problem unless you break it. If that distinction is worth making then it doesn't necessarily follow that ignoring the seatbelt laws mean that you don't wear a seatbelt. You might wear one because you know it makes you safer, not because the law tells you to. My behaviour conforms with the law not (wholly) because I choose to obey the law, but because my choice of good behaviour and the laws' coincides.
  17. {sniff} Are You A Zionist?

    So, no Muslim organisations ever targets civillians, eh? It's always false-flag israelis? They sure do get around, don't they! Killing tourists by the hundred in Bali, killing Muslims by the thousand in Algeria (by the million in Darfour), suicide bombing cafes in israel, trains in Madrid and London, beheading the odd reporter, blowing up the odd plane - you have to admire their persistance! It must have been really hard to get Mossad agents into Afghanistan to kill teachers who taught little girls!
  18. Iraqi 'freedom Fighters' Torture Chamber Found

    It's a pity that they seem to be mostly killing other Muslims, then.
  19. {sniff} Are You A Zionist?

    Why? You are the one making claims about WMDs, not me. You said that the US had used WMDs on Grenada. I asked you which WMDs the US used on Grenada. And for some reason you refuse to reply. Why? What, you're saying that all civilian deaths in wartime are murder? Answer yes or no, please. Just for a second, pretend that you think like a normal human being, and admit that 145,000 deaths over the course of WWII is a relatively small number. Then we can discuss whether or not any civillian death in wartime is murder. Bear in mind that the Nazis killed 40,000 innocent English civillians in two months early in the war, long before any German or Italian civillian had been killed. Oher than those killed by the Nazis and Fascists, I mean. Yes? And? The second world war ended on 2 September, 1945. Got a source for that? And was it an official involvement or individuals volunteering? LOL - so if France had just waited to be invaded it wouldn't have been a 'cause' of the war. Hahahahahaah! YOU started comparing the US to the Nazis, hence this talk about WWII. If YOU want to talk about WWII, start another thread. (Funny little fellow!) edits for typos
  20. World Depopulation Is Top Nsa Agenda

    You like playing dumb, don't you? A hypothetical invasion, against which the Australian government was considering options. It's a bit late to consider defence options once an invasion has begun. How is that a difficult concept? Good - I'm not going to research it for you, but if you look through UN discussion of Afghanistan and resolutions against the Taliban prior to 9/11 you'll see evidence. These are freely available online. Again, nonsense. Australia could choose to have a race-based immigration policy and still get skilled immigrants. In fact Australia DID have a race-based immigration policy 50 years ago. 'Race' is now not a recognised concept in Australian law. About a month ago, the "general public" used its "mentality" and elected a PM who has a Chinese son-in-law. Australia is a democracy - the government reflects the will of the people.
  21. {sniff} Are You A Zionist?

    YOU claimed that the US used WMDs in Grenada. YOU don't have the courage to admit that you are wrong. Always ready with a lie, aren't you? I did not "belittle and ridicule" anything. I pointed out that as far as civilian deaths in WWII go, 145,000 is a small number. As a comparison, well over 40,000 people, almost all civillians, in England were killed in under 60 days by German bombing. And Britain wasn't even invaded. *sigh* Here we go again. You post sometiung dumb and then prevaricate. You claimed "the US regime has illegally intervened in many countries during and after the World War II." I asked for an example of the US illegally intervening during WWII. You gave an example of AFTER WWII. Now you lie about it WHY? Do you think telling lies makes it go away? Can you give us an example of the US "supplying men" to Britain before 1942? Yes? You say that WWII was "caused by" France, among other countries. I asked you to tell me how France caused WWII. Yes? I pointed out that the Dresden raid was lead and, I think, planned by the Brits. It was certainly a result of the British "Bomber" Harris' urging. Yes, the USAF participated in this RAF-lead raid. *yawn* Your point was that the US wantonly killed civillians in Fallujah. In fact you were wrong - the US gave a great deal of notice of the attack and told civillians to leave. It might have been nice if Al Quaeda had told Moroccan civillians to stay away from last week's bomb, mightn't it?
  22. {sniff} Are You A Zionist?

    I have no idea how much the US gives israel each year. I assume it's a lot. If I cared to find out it would take me a few seconds on google, but I don't actually care. You are the one obsessed with US support of israel, how come you don't know? edit for typos
  23. How The Fbi Framed A Muslim Charity

    Please read this slowly and carefully. If your information is correct it will be available from sources which are credible. whatreallyhappened is not a credible source.
  24. {sniff} Are You A Zionist?

    Hahahahahahah! You claimed that the US used WMDs in Grenada. What were these WMDs? Since WMDs are so terrible, they must have caused huge numbers of casualties, right? Can you tell us the total death toll of the Grenada invasion? Nazi Germany and its allies attacked without provocation almost all of Europe, several countries in Africa, plus Russia, Turkey, Egypt, China, Burma, Thailand, Malaya (sic), Singapore, the Philippines, Singapore, New Guinea, Australia, the USA an probably others I haven't mentioned. In just five years it was the cause of over 70 million deaths. Actually, that IS a small number, and I suspect that that is Italian civillian deaths in total - remember that the Germans started attacking Italians as they retreated. I didn't say they were, I said that Germany and Japan killed many more civillians than the Allies did, and that Germany invented the tactic of "Total War", in which indiscriminate bombing of cities was begun. However, now that you mention it, I suspect that Germany killed more German civillians than the Allies did - the communists, Jews, homosexuals, artists and so on slaughtered in their millions were Germans. And I questioned your assertion that the US illegally intervended in any country during WWII and asked for an example. You haven't given an example. Why is it so hard to get you to support your own statements? You seem a bit confused about WWII. It began in 1939 - the US became a reluctant participant in 1942. The Nazis had been terrorising and slaughtering the innocent citizens of Europe (and Russia, and parts of Africa and so on) for quite some time, resisted almost solely by Britain and (later) Russia. Rubbish. Can you explain how French aggression caused WWII? Yes, dumbkoff, I know what Dresden is, otherwise I wouldn't have pointed out that Dresden was more of a British operation than a US one. Why not address my point instead of C&Ping schoolkid history? Again, your history is poor. The whole world knew that the US was going to attack Fallujah at least a week in advance, because the US announced it. Civillians were told to leave.