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repeater

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  1. "The Australian investigation" was by a totally unqualified (in ANY of the fields his 'investigation' required) crank. I would give it even less creedence than the usual denier rubbish. Look it up for a laugh.
  2. Yasnov, here's a clue. You will not find academic historians (that is the people with the qualifications) running holocaust denial websites. Try to find the academic journals in which genuine historians publish. Most won't be available online unless you subscribe or are a student at a university, but the abstracts (very brief summary of the finding/argument of the article) are often freel available. This should at least give you an idea of what the current issues are and what the current thinking is. This will not be anywhere near as simple as just reading racist hate sites. You'll need to find the univerities which publish journals relating to this topic (as suggested above, 'genocide studies' might be a good search to start with) and to read a lot of abstracts to get an idea of what the mainstream consensus is. A good academic at a good university will probably respond to an email query, although probably not if it's "Hi, I know that the Zionists are threatening you but what's the real story about the Holofraud?" Ask them for links to journals.
  3. hatsoff seems to have taken the reins here very successfully, but before I sit back and watch, I'd like to comment on one of Odoknarf's early responses: Firstly, we have no idea if he "produced" anything else. In an oral tradition just reciting a poem to your wife is "producing" something. What does being a writer "by profession" have to do with it? Shakespear became a professional writer because he was extemely good at writing, not the other way round. Anyway, the episodic nature of the Koran's production is equivalent to a poet producing work throughout his/her life. And by the end Mohammed was definitely a "professional". Who said he suddenly developed this at the age of 40? Mohammed? If I'm assuming that god didn't dictate it I would assume that he had spent the preceeding 20-odd years developing his poems and his political/military plans. I think his older, wealthy wife is a huge clue as to driving force here. By the way, I don't know if you have said it but others have - in an oral tradition Mohammed's supposed illiteracy makes no difference whatsoever. Mentioning it is intellectually dishonest - an 'illiterate' these days is used of an uneducated and possibly simple person, so by inference when applied to Mohammed it's suggesting that he wasn't educated or bright enough to have written great poetry. But of course in his culture illiteracy meant no such thing.
  4. Question For Reverts

    Nonsense. Great poets do this all the time, as do great philosphers. Perhaps Mohammed was the greatest poet ever to live. But even if you are right that Mohammed could not have written the Koran by himself, then we have to suppose another alternative, and ANY alternative (eg he found a pile of ancient scrolls and modified them; he had a commitee of poets writing with him; a great poet was living secretly in Mecca ... ) is vastly more likely than the idea that it was written by a supernatural being.
  5. Fair enough, but note that there was only one 'Holocaust' - the word is only used to describe the Nazi genocide of WWII. Also, while abominable things have been done to other peoples, I'm not sure that there was ever a plan to deliberately wipe out an entire people. You need to be understand this, Yasnov: Revisionism happens in academic history all the time. It involves looking at an event or period and seeing if the accepted version of events is still correct in the light of new evidence or (more often) new ways of thinking about history. That happened with WWII history, including the Holocaust, and no-one had a problem with it. It's what historians DO. It was accepted that the Holocaust happend much as the previously accepted version said. The word 'revisionist' only got a bad name after the normal boring academic job was over, when UNQUALIFIED people took it up. The ONLY 'revisionist' (ie Holocauset-denying) historian with any academic credibility was David Irving, and he was more of a popular historian (that is, he wrote mass-market 'history lite') than an academic.
  6. Question For Reverts

    Well, it's well worthwhile googling Edinburgh Univerity Journals, then selecting the Journal of Qu'ranic Studies - currently all editions of all their journals are online and free until the end of April (I think). The Journal is a bit more specialised than I was looking for as an answer to my question on this thread, but it's fascinating nevertheless. Thanks again.
  7. Not "everyone else". The Nazis did not have a programme of trying to kill every French person on the planet, for example. NO-ONE denies or forgets the gypsies, the Communists, the homosexuals, the intellectuals who the Nazis murdered. However the systematic attempt to murder all of the Jews of Europe was on a much larger scale, was without any reason whatsoever except moronic racism, and very nearly succeeded. Thank god it didn't. Like it or not, the Jewish Holocaust has beome the symbol of the lowest point that humanity has ever reached. It's vitally important that the Holocaust is remembered and that the lessons are learned. GENUINE academic historians spent a decade or so producing revisionist versions of WWII history. They broadly concluded that the Holocaust happened as had been said by their predecessors.. But at the end of the process a nasty bunch on UNQUALIFIED asorted nutters decided to make names for themselves by starting the Holocaust denial industry. It has NO credibility with real historians.
  8. Passages In The Quraan

    The problem is that you are basing your Lit Crit on the untenable belief that the author is a god. If the author isn't given any more status than any other author, this is pretty much yer standard Charlton Heston-style god speil, compied (and perhaps improved on) in a thousand Fantasy and Sci-Fi novels. I'll ask again - in what way is the verse beautiful, other than its meaning (which I don't find especially beautiful either, but that's another issue)?
  9. The idea that Mohammed could not have written the Koran, if true, calls for other explanations - ANY of which, no matter how far-fetched, are almost infinitely less far-fetched than a supernatural being existing. The stuff about 'no editing' is plain wrong (aren't the abrogated verses editing?), and anyway, given that it wasn't written down until X years later, no-one knows how closely the final product related to what Mohammed actually said - nor is it guaranteed that the Koran we have now is exactly the same as the one first written down. Sure, there's tradition that it was written exactly as Mohammed said it, but that tradition comes from people with a very strong incentive - polititcal, social, financial - to make Islam appear in the best light possible. The bias of Muslim historians in other matters has been noted from Gibbon down, so why not assume that the same sort of bias is at work in the history of the Koran's copmposition? I personally think that it's likely that Mohammed was a genius who composed the Koran himself. The Koran is not a long work. He had a whole 23 years to do it (the comparison with Shakespeare is not a good one - his volume of work is vastly larger than Mohammed's, and was written vastly faster - Proust would be a better comparison, although even he wrote far more than Mohammed) and plenty of people to try out his ideas on, even if they were not aware of it (or don't admit it). Just because there's a work which is 'the best work of literature in Arabic' doesn't mean it was written by a god. SOMEthing had to be the best.
  10. Middle East Undersea Cable Cutting

    I read on another site that undersea cables get cut all the time, usually by other cables being laid across them. It's worth noting that in this case not all the cables were cut, meaning that if it WAS sabotage, it was incompetent and futile.
  11. The Idea Of A Jewish State

    FYI, here's the Australian view (from the country overview on the DFAT site - no doubt mre detailed policy is available but I couldn't be bothered searching it out): We've just had a change of government but I doubt that the policy will change much.
  12. Question For Reverts

    Thanks for that.
  13. Joseph, you didn't engage in the thread, which exists to provide the evidence requested by atheists.
  14. Qur'an And Prophets

    What? Are you saying that humans and/or prophets existed 4 million years ago???
  15. Absolutely 100% certain. (You could quibble that the motivation for the Holocaust was racism, thus learning about it must mean acknowledging race as a concept, but that's not what you're getting at.)
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