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SuperZeZ

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Everything posted by SuperZeZ

  1. First off, I would like to thank those who participated in answering the questions I asked in my previous thread, "Why Didn't Muhammad Campaign Against Child Marriage?". I appreciate the patience and politeness my questions were answered with, and I hope that you found me to be comparably civil in my messages, and I further hope that this will continue to be true with this discussion as well. I had asked those questions because I had heard things about the Prophet Muhammad that I had considered morally objectionable, namely taking a slave and a child as brides. However, my primary goal in asking these questions was not to gain evidence of what Muhammad did. My goal in asking such questions was to discern what Muslims believe Muhammad did, and what they think of him in light of what they believe he did. I'm sorry to say that I have my doubts that any discussion on this forum would convince me to become a Muslim (though I leave open the possibility it could happen), but my goal in asking these questions is to gain a better understanding for the Islamic moral code, because that's the part of Islam that has been the most heavily criticized in my experience. I simply wish to gain a better understanding of what guides my fellow human beings, looking past both the Islamophobic fear-mongering on one end and the apologetics on the other end. Now, on the second page of my previous thread, a sub-discussion emerged that I consider somewhat chilling, so I wanted to ask it directly, so hopefully I get more answers to it. One of the participants in the discussion said that I was correct in thinking that, in Islam, "good", "just" and "right" are defined as whatever Allah commands us to do. So I have a question: Is there anything that you would refuse to do on moral grounds, even if Allah directly commanded you specifically to do it? Please give this significant thought. Think about the most abhorrent deed you have ever heard somebody do to somebody else, and imagine being commanded by Allah to do it to your brother, your sister, your mother, your father, your children, or your spouse. Would you refuse to do it? And if you refused, would you feel guilty for refusing to do it? Again, please think about this very carefully, and remember that this is entirely hypothetical, and I know that this scenario is not considered to be at all likely by most Muslims, but that is not the point. The point is that there are plenty of things I can think of that I would refuse to do no matter who told me to do them, and I would not feel at all guilty for refusing to do them; rather, I would be positive that, in refusing to perform such an act, I had done the only right thing I could have done in that situation. I'm sure this is a difficult question, but I feel it is extremely important, and must be taken seriously.
  2. Hey everybody, I'm writing a book, and in it there is a religion based in the arab world. The founder of that religion invented an arabic word. It's not a real word, but I want to check with people who know arabic to make sure of a couple of things: 1: The word, or a word pronounced exactly the same way, doesn't already exist in arabic 2: The word is actually linguistically accurate, and how it would be spelled in arabic The word would be written in english as "vorak", and would be pronounced like the first two syllables of "Morocco" but with a V, and it translates to "lying to children and frightening them to keep them in line." Basically, the founder of this faith felt that that was such a grave sin that it needed a word to convey it succinctly, so people could call other people out on it without their sentences becoming awkward. Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated :)
  3. Writing A Book, Need Some Advice

    Thanks, yeah, I meant the transliteration, how I'd write it in english, so thanks a ton!
  4. Writing A Book, Need Some Advice

    Thank you so much! Just to clarify, what would be the most accurate romanization of this word? Since you said that, as I had come to suspect, V and O aren't part of normal Arabic, I'm guessing that it would be romanized with other letters, an I'm just curious what those would be. Again, I really appreciate your help with this!
  5. Writing A Book, Need Some Advice

    Yeah, I was worried that it would sound a bit dodgy, lemme give a bit of explanation: See, my book is a work of post-apocalyptic fiction, and the nature of it is such that religion would get mentioned quite frequently, so I took the opportunity to make my story's universe have a completely different set of religious beliefs than the real world, so it's kind of an "alternate earth" piece of fiction. This would be the primary religion of the middle-east in this universe. Long story short, one of this religion's teachings is that the three worst sins one can commit are Rape, Slavery, and lying to children to frighten them and keep them in line. As this is such a grave sin, the founder of this religion invented a word for it, so the horrific trio of sins is known as "Rape, Slavery and Vorak." Another thing I'd like to point out is that I can give you my word that this book portrays the arab world in a positive light, and I have no desire to be insulting or offensive, which is why I want to make sure about this word.
  6. Writing A Book, Need Some Advice

    I've done a bit of research using the very helpful tutorials on this forum, and I've concluded that the word uses two letters with no arabic equivalents (V and O). Just wondering on the off chance that it's true, is there already a word in Arabic for "lying to children and frightening them to keep them in line"? It's incredibly specific and obscure, so I have my doubts, but just want to check. And if there isn't already a word for it, does anybody have a suggestion for a good fictional Arabic word for it i could use?
  7. Writing A Book, Need Some Advice

    Well I wouldn't make any claims of it being a real arabic word, I'd make it clear that the word was invented by the founder of that religion, one which is unique to this book's universe. I just want to check for plausibility, in that the word isn't already taken, and that it could be a real word. I've found myself being very careful about the words I use, out of a fear of sounding offensive, as that is not my intention, and I apologize if I've come across as that.
  8. I've often heard, and my reading of the Qur'an seems to suggest, that before Islam, the people of the book were worshipping Allah properly and thus would not go to hell. This may be a misconstrual of what that means, but the question that always brought to mind was this: In the time between when Christianity was founded and Islam was founded, which group, according to Islam, had the true faith: the Jews or the Christians? If I have indeed misunderstood what I have read, I'd appreciate clarification, and I hope you could forgive my ignorance on the matter in that case :)
  9. Why Doesn't Allah Help Us?

    So how do you define evil? And how evil do you think I am?
  10. Why Doesn't Allah Help Us?

    Are you saying everybody who isn't a muslim is wicked, and that's why they disbelieve? What about the tenth plague, the one where the firstborn children of Egypt were killed? Were the children being punished? And if it was their parents, why inflict a punishment that hurt people who weren't being punished?
  11. Why Doesn't Allah Help Us?

    This personally confuses me, because I read several passages in the Qur'an that seem to indicate that Allah intentionally hardens the hearts the unbelievers, and isn't that forcing them into a certain opinion? Also, with the example of Egypt, what exactly was gained by sending the plagues to force Pharaoh to let them go, at the cost of the lives of so many blameless egyptian children? Was the lesson the hebrews learned really worth those lives?
  12. Why Doesn't Allah Help Us?

    What were the political positions of the two groups? Can you provide more information? I think the answer almost certainly lies there, in what the groups were advocating.
  13. Is There Anything You Could Not Do For Allah?

    Pardon? Are you saying my claim is in contradiction of evidence?
  14. Is There Anything You Could Not Do For Allah?

    Oh I have no intention of dodging any questions. What "unscientific" claim did I make? And how do you define "Scientific"? I just want to make sure we're on the same page.
  15. Is There Anything You Could Not Do For Allah?

    Nice use of skepticism! You are correct, my experience that heterosexuals don't get these "urges" is anecdotal and based on my life experience, but seeing as you haven't shown any studies that demonstrate that it IS a temptation, my anecdotal evidence, however weak, is currently the strongest evidence put forward in this discussion regarding whether or not homosexuality is actually a temptation in the matter. Actually, it's occurred to me that we've gone far off topic in this thread, but I wish to continue this discussion, so I think I'll make a new topic for discussion of homosexuality.
  16. Is There Anything You Could Not Do For Allah?

    What sinful actions? The sinful actions you're referencing are the spread of AIDS, so what exactly did homosexuals do that was so evil before AIDS?
  17. Which Was The True Faith Before Muhammad?

    The definitions for Mushlam that I've found are "perfect" and "peace." Can you point me to a hebrew translation dictionary that translates it as Muslim? Also, how are you sure it doesn't mean "perfect"?
  18. Is There Anything You Could Not Do For Allah?

    Raihanna, do people who are beaten, raped, or lose body parts have a higher likelihood of going to hell? Secondly, by what measure is AIDS the most deadly disease ever? It took me a while to find a list that even showed it in the top ten, and even then it was 5th. Lastly, if STIs didnt exist, what would be wrong with homosexuality? I ask because obviously if Allah exists, he must have made the decision to bring AIDS into the world, And again, if lesbians are NOT more susceptible to STDs than straight women are, if they're actually LESS, wouldn't that mean that being a woman and NOT being a lesbian is sinful because it spreads disease more?
  19. Is There Anything You Could Not Do For Allah?

    If a serial killer specifically targeted doctors and law enforcement officers and killed them in utterly brutal ways, would that mean that allowing your children to become doctors and police officers is immoral? No, it's the serial killer's fault for killing people, not his victims for picking his target occupations as careers. Likewise, if there's psychological damage done to homosexuals because millions of muslims think they're no better than murderers, that's the muslims' fault for discriminating against people who haven't hurt anybody else, not the homosexuals for not concealing their sexual orientation from their neighbors. Let me ask you something: Have you ever felt sexual attraction to another woman? Have you actually experienced this temptation? Because I have never felt sexually attracted to men, even for a moment. Very few people do. Do you know any of your straight friends who have felt such "Temptation"? I'm willing to bet you won't know very many, and I invite you to wonder why that is. Why on earth doesn't this temptation affect everybody, certainly not as much as lust and greed do? Why would Allah punish people so severely for failing a "test" that most people on earth don't ever have to take?
  20. Is There Anything You Could Not Do For Allah?

    Raihanna, I encourage you to read the studies before you use them as evidence like this, because "I think these guys knew what they were doing" is not enough to be sure something's accurate. Just because something is peer-reviewed doesn't mean it's escaped valid criticism in the peer review process. Please read the study before citing it, because as I said, the writer of the article (not the study, the main article) clearly did not read it very carefully, or he/she would have noticed the obvious flaws in their methodology. And if you think that such sloppy work has no impact on the rest of the study, you should ask yourself: If I sent you a report that began by claiming things that the cited documents didn't even remotely imply, wouldn't you question the integrity of the article in general? Furthermore, some of the disadvantages the article listed to being homosexual were social, specifically mentioning bigotry against them, and 100 years ago the same argument could have been made that it's unhealthy to be black.
  21. Is There Anything You Could Not Do For Allah?

    I don't think you mis-printed it, I just want the link so I can see where this was posted and what responses people might have had towards it. Very well, I'll look for it myself. Also, I'm aware that it cites multiple different articles, but the one it cited to make the claim that "lesbians also have sex with men" and that "Lesbians are more than 4 times more likely to have had over 50 sexual partners than heterosexual women" were citing that article at that moment to back up their claims, and the claims they made from it are demonstrably false, based on a failure to notice the definitions used in the first case, and not noticing the skewed proportion of prostitutes within the sample groups in the latter. And do you disagree with the point I made, that the case study I talked about is guilty of selection bias and is thus not representative of the populations it's comparing?
  22. Is There Anything You Could Not Do For Allah?

    I noticed a problem with the first study I saw cited (I'm replying to this as I work my way down, checking out the sources), I believe this is what it's referring to: http://sti.bmj.com/c.../5/345.abstract You will notice that these aren't lesbians they're refering to, they're talking about non-heterosexuals. Any woman who has ever had sex with a woman even once goes into one group, and then women who have never had sex with another woman are the "control". Granted, they then divide it into "exclusive WSW", but even then it only checks back a year for sex with men, even though they check through the entire life with women. But the main issue I have is that the control is "Every woman who hasn't had sex with a woman." There are several problems with this, but the most obvious one I noticed was that the terms for the "control" group don't actually require members of the control group to have ever had sex. Do you see why that might skew the results? Furthermore, they were taking their sample from an STI and HIV service, which means that a good portion of the people who would be part of their sample would have significant reason to believe that they might have an STI already, or think they might have been born with one or became infected through a blood transfusion, and want to check. Do you see why that might also skew the results significantly? The sample is taken from a group not representative of the whole population. Why didn't they take their sample from something that doesn't attract a particular demographic, but which also tests for aids? Blood donation records would probably have been more accurate, though it would still be far from perfect. Edit: It appears I wasn't the first to say that. This is a peer reviewed journal, and there were criticisms of it that pointed out more issues of selection bias: "For example, over twice as many of the WSW as the control group were current sex workers; 38% of the WSW had had a previous termination of pregnancy; nearly six times as many of the WSW had a history of injecting drug use." Twice as many were sex workers? That probably goes a significant way towards explaining that "Four times as likely to have had over 50 sex partners" statistic. Your article also makes the claim that "lesbians have sex with men", when really it's referring to WSW (Women who have sex with women), not Lesbians. Can I see the original link to this article? It seems the writer may not have read the study thoroughly.
  23. Is There Anything You Could Not Do For Allah?

    Raihanna, is that quoted from a web page? I appreciate taking the time to format it and everything, that must have taken a while, but I think that people browsing the thread would probably have preferred if you had just given a link. That post is huge. I'm about to start reading through it, just thought I'd let you know :)
  24. Is There Anything You Could Not Do For Allah?

    About the knife example: Note that I said short term and long term. You make her put the knife down because while she's enjoying it, she doesn't understand that she'll likely get herself hurt for doing it, possibly with irreversible consequences, like losing an eye, or losing a finger, or even death. It's not that there's something inherently wrong about the joy she gets out of playing with knives. Heck, it probably isn't far from the time where we could have some kind of virtual reality and she could play with knives in the safety of simulation without risk of injury. It is, however, important for her to understand that in the real world, knives can hurt people. It's likely she's too young to be messing with knives even in a virtual environment, but even then, what makes it important to stop her is the fact that it has a high likelihood of permanently making her life less enjoyable, or even ending it. Oh, and while the STD argument may apply to gays, it's completely false for lesbians. Lesbians are actually completely immune to getting AIDS unless they're unlucky with a needle or blood transfusion, and they're far less likely to catch other STDs than even heterosexuals are.
  25. Is There Anything You Could Not Do For Allah?

    So yes, you would not tolerate it if Allah lied to you? You would cease to be a Muslim if he spoke to you directly and told you something that later turned out to be a lie? And if not, if you think he'd still deserve to be worshipped, then why do you think it would be so unthinkable for Allah to lie?
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