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About Panentheist13

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    Believer without religion
  1. It's a little bit more than that. While I don't cheer for his side, knowledge is knowledge. Just Wiki on String Theorem It doesn't help the atheist argument, really, as I see it. Only adds to the ultra complexity, and beauty, of, I'll call it, the Initiating Event. Heh. Science is a wonderful lens through which to see the work of the divine methinks. Wonder upon wonder. -panentheist13
  2. Chaos Theory describes systems that are so complex and dynamic that in order to determine the determine the outcome or prediction of outcomes, one must know the exact state of the triggering events. Even if one does know the exact state of the triggering events, even in a deterministic system, the outcomes are impossible to predict. Chaos Theory therefore is not Order coming from Chaos. Chaos Theory could be pointed to if one wished to discuss a god event. We do not know the initial state or event triggering the creation of reality. We believe we know many things. We have know way to predict the final outcome of that creation event. Science is not based completely on fact, but rather much of science is based on belief. We know this, so we believe this should follow suit. There is a law: Matter cannot be created or destroyed. This law has not been violated that we know of, even in quantum level events. This law is based on some tested facts that have held SO far, as well as beliefs that it should hold under all conditions. Quantum physics is still an infant, as really is all of science. They are just beginning to scratch the surface of how our cells operate at a quantum level, even communicate, and are studying quantum brain biology and the study of neural communication at the quantum level. All this is happening. However, it is all based on chains and chains of beliefs that get overturned when new facts or beliefs emerge. It is a dynamic system we cannon predict the outcome of. This infinitely wonderful complexity came from a single initiating event. Science speaks in terms of multi-dimensions and multiple 'worlds', string theory, and other wonderful belief systems that are budding fresh. Yet for all of those gifted scientists and great minds, who among you and I can and have proved the world is round. You and I go out and we see the horizon and we are told the world is round, or by some that it is flat, yet who among us has proved it to ourselves to make sure it's fact? We believe. Science is belief. So is belief in the Anti-God. Atheism would have you believe it is based on reason, logic, fact, but is no less a belief system than any religion, nor is it worshiped less. See here its crusaders spreading its word to the unbeliever. Were they to be scientifically honest, they'd be agnostic, a wise stance and in holding with Chaos Theory. A stance of many scientists. But no, they worship Anti-God instead and say they know what happened at the initiating event and all other following events. They know the source and the outcomes. They alone, based on beliefs. As we preach to them, they preach to us. There is little difference. We say we know because we are counselled by that initial Event, while they say they know because they are counselled by men. There will be no gain on either side until we stop trying to sell our goods to each other and deal with the things that matter, together, such as using our resources and knowledge to lift the people of this complex world out of pain and strife. panentheist13 ...end rant :sl:
  3. "pairs" Being Mentioned In The Qur'an

    If you are talking about the fundamental building blocks of this Universe, then so far everything exists in pairs. But a person who wants to be contrary can just start picking things and say what about this and what about that and you can go on and on. That pairs dominate the life structure on this planet, that chromosomes almost always are in sets of twos in plants, animals, bacteria, fungus, etc should be noted as true. In our social-linguistic-cultural-perceptual worlds pairs arise because we create them. Because we perceive something as beautiful, we then have created a meaning for ugliness, etc - Old master/s Lao and Chuangtzu. As to the Angels, if they are the messengers of god and we the receivers of the messages, and they are made energy, and we of matter, and they are close to god and perfect, and we are far from god and imperfect, and they bring the light of knowledge to those who live in the dark... perhaps they are our opposite. They could also be the opposites of the Jinn. The Jinn are uncontrolled energy, wavering smokeless flame. Freewilled, undependable and imperfect. They carry with them the ultimate traitor, the devourer. While the Angels are coherent energy of one purpose, one will, in line with God's Word, unfaltering for all time. Perception really. -panentheist13
  4. The Root Of All Sins

    Greetings If I might add my thoughts, I would say that in my opinion the root of all sins is desiring more than is right, required, healthy. This desiring more than enough arises from having a body that has needs and senses. We are wired with certain natural inborn desires to seek certain forms of gratification through the use of the senses in order to carry out survival. If we did not enjoy food early on, or feel the pain of the sun and seek shelter, or other pleasures/pains, we would have not survived our early days. We, however, having free will and no limits save those we have learned from ourselves or from sages, philosophers, and prophets, allow those desires to reign unchecked. Desire for more food than you need leads to various other sins: gluttony - theft - hoarding - war over food supplies and territory. Desire for more sex of course leads to unrestricted population growth (Need resource/conflict increase) - disease - break down of individual and social bonds. Desire for power over others through many avenues all arise from the basic initial god-given desires that help us survive. Pride and arrogance arise from believing you finally have some form of something more than someone else, be it material like money or non-material like genius or power. Ignorance, in my opinion, is not a sin. The sin is remaining ignorant once the truth is revealed. Jinn, I would presume, being finite creations of God would also have to have some basic natural desires so that they survive. From what I've read here so far, they are finite like us, but of flame, with free will, but created first. I would then have to guess that, although made of smokeless flame, they would have some sort of structure that would support similar desires, even if their needs are different. I will cease my rambling here and hope I've added something to the conversation and not detracted from it. -Panentheist13
  5. If Islam could come together under the same banner and be blessed once again with a leader as just, humble, and committed to the poor. the sick, and the weak as Umar ibn al-Khattāb, whom I've read a little about and come to respect, and was far-sighted enough to see past the short-sighted violence now so often displayed and fought for the soul, not just of the current believers, but of the entire human race (East and West) through noble word and deed rather than blood and horror... that would be a world worth seeing. It is a dream worth having. Forgive me if my dream insults in any way, but it is a good one I think. The dreamer -Panentheist13
  6. All About Perceptions

    I know I may be getting off point, but I wanted to add a quote from one of my favorite philosophers, a very humorous and enlightened soul from China... It is about beginnings, but it sums up what I think about some Western philosophers, such as Heidegger. Chuang Tzu (c.360 BC - c. 275 BC)
  7. Your Favorite Verses from the Quran

    "God is the light of the heavens and the earth. His light may be compared to a niche that enshrines a lamp, the lamp within a crystal of star-like brilliance. It is lit from from a blessed olive tree neither Eastern or Western. Its very oil would almost shine forth, though no fire touched it. Light upon light! God guides to his light whom He will." (Qur'an 24:35) "By another sign He created for you spouses from among yourselves, that you might live in peace with them, and planted love and kindness in your hearts. Surely there are signs in this for thinking men." (Qur'an 30:21) "To God belongs the east and the west. Whichever way you turn there is the face of God. He is omnipresent and all-knowing." (Qur'an 2:115) -Panentheist13
  8. Two Inquiries

    I do not know if you could see a Lost One such as I a brother or friend, but I have always respected your ideas and your conviction. You, in several ways, have added to my knowledge. And while I don't always reply to different posts, I read many. We may butt heads at times, but I think our hearts are in the right place. I can only speak for myself, but there is no evil in my heart for you or for anyone else I've met here. This place has brought me so much and has moved me down my road. It was after reading the Koran and then readiing one of your discussions here that I gave up alcohol for good, so I have you to thank for that. Orthodox, there is no need to seek forgiveness here. It's always free. Jazakullah khair For what you've done for me. Panentheist13
  9. Iran President Claims 9/11 Was Done By America.

    I agree with you. It's irrational for us, the US, to demand the removal of nuclear weapons while maintaining one of the greatest nuclear arsenals on the planet. First, it's hypocritical. Second, the cold war mentality still dictates to many the need for safety from other nuclear countries through fear of MAD... or mutually assured destruction. If you bomb us to oblivion, we'll bomb you bomb you to oblivion. However, the sad hole in that argument is that even without nuclear weapons, the US could still uphold their end of MAD from any nuclear attack using our conventional weapons. They just are not needed. Ugh. panentheist13
  10. Muslim Response To Koran Burnings On 9/11

    Freedom of speech allows one to say anything they like. Freedom of speech does not equal Freedom from Responsibility. The burning of the Quran in Florida is irresponsible and incendiary. It serves only to incite hatred and to inspire religious-based anti-muslim zeal. It drudges up the old crusader lies of the Catholic church, which I really don't feel like I need to dirty myself by repeating, in order to stoke the flames of the rising bigotry in America. It acts as a symbol and a rally point. Moments like these occur throughout history. They are starting points. Every brutal anti-racial/anti-religious movement begins with a build-up of emotional sentiment and a spark or several sparks. Nazi Germany. One needs go no further. Look at how we, I am a US citizen, are in a frenzy over our 'illegal immigrants' even though the facts say we've had less immigrants in the last 5 years than in a long time. Look at the incendiary language being used regarding both the Islamic religious center and the immigration issue. Free Speech without responsibility is just as deadly as a virus bomb. No matter how you dance around it, this is not good and it is not just a matter of free speech. Fortunately, and I hope people understand this, we're not all rabid dogs here. Many of us are really trying to do the right thing. Many of us, despite religions, despite economic situations, view the burning of the Quran or any Sacred Text with anger and disgust, and do what we can to fight it. I just wish ours was the louder voice. Ah forgive me. panentheist13
  11. There Is No 'ground Zero Mosque'

    Thank you SaracenSoldier
  12. Ground Zero Hypocrisy

    Peace be with you I have been really hoping that they can push that religious center through in New York. While I am an american, I don't live in New York, but I do understand a small degree of the reluctance of many there, but I feel that is exactly why the center needs to be built. Sadly, both the historically leaning US Christian majority as well as the secular school system have really, intentionally and unintentionally, blinded the majority of everyday citizens when it comes to other world religions, even those with strong following in their own country. A person really has to go out of there way here to break through that veil. It's hard to look outside if you don't have any windows. For instance, my parents are really kind, educated, well balanced people. They happen to be Christian. When I tried to share my interest in Islam with them, it was like I hit a brick wall. I was stunned. I had to break that wall down piece by piece, replacing false perceptions with what I have learned so far. And I broke through and it was nice. But then last week, we were out and we happened across a nice fellow and his family. The man had a beard and a turban. My parents looked at me after we passed as if to say, "a muslim family?," and I smiled and started teaching them about Sikhs. This time there were no walls. In my honest opinion, what america needs is not fewer Muslims and Masjids, but more religious centers and more active voices out there willing to risk teaching at least the basic ideals of their religion and bridging the gap with the public. So I really hope New York can move beyond the trauma and see some good in this center. panentheist13
  13. Sisters On The Display

    My apologies. I did carry the topic past Islam. I've inserted too much of my ego into my posts for which I apologize. I act with good intent but get carried away. Peace be with you :sl: panthentheist13
  14. Sisters On The Display

    I hope you do not mind me adding to this, but I would like to agree with both of you. As I am coming from outside, I believe this for all men and women. The internet is the most irresponsibly used creation of humanity. Anything you put on it, stays on it forever. It has so many dark places. I wish both men and women would refrain from posting indecent images, including youtube. Men should be treated equally to women. What Samia :sl: brings up is a very true problem. Many men, not just in the west, blame women for their own weaknesses. They say things like, "it was her fault I did that to her. See how she was dressed." Even in courts of law perhaps 20 years ago or less, men could get away with kind of horror, making the victim the criminal, in the US. Men need to guard their own weaknesses, be responsible for their own actions, and be just as modest as women, in my opinion. panentheist13
  15. You are making some very broad generalizations that are not altogether true and that do not do you justice. If what I'm reading in the Quran is true, as well as in my history books (I am no scholar), the Prophet (peace and blessing upon him) respected the truly holy Christians and Jews, and differentiated between them and those who distorted the teachings of Jesus. You do not differentiate between the two, and they do exist. Likewise, you belittle Christ's concept of love and compassion, having no true understanding of what he asked for. I am not a Christian, yet I am able to see the difference between great teachers and faulty students. While faulty students defiled his word (they ignore what he asked for), he did have true students living and dying peacefully trying to defend it. They did their best to halt the horror of Crusades. They made stands against the excesses of the Christian Church, the nobility, the evils of the inquisition, the blasphemous ways the church "converted" by the sword, etc. And they do their best to cross the gap between Islam and Christianity and try to bring peace to a world at war. They are out there. It's just sad that they are so few and that they have to fight Christians who fit your stereotype as well as the Muslims who enforce it. Yes, there are a lot of bad Christians out there. Yes, Western society is full of dark holes and has done horrible, horrible things. But that is why it is so important for good, strong people of faith to cross the battlefield and work together. Everyone talks like we're(the West) are a lost cause and Judgement Day is tomorrow. I believe you and I have a responsibility to the ummah - ummah earth - to change this mess and it isn't going to happen by pointing fingers and screaming war like we've been doing for over a thousand years. panentheist13