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About tonnyj

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  1. Regarding History Of Quranic Text

    Dont want to interrupt this tense dialogue going on here but my question still remains; are there any hadith to support what you say or are these just modern scholarly opinions?
  2. Regarding History Of Quranic Text

    Please brother if you find it please let me know. Salem
  3. Regarding History Of Quranic Text

    What does Ahruf mean? Are there any hadiths that support this or are these just scholarly opinions? Also is Ibn Hajar the same thing as Ibn Hajar, Fathal Bari? (What is this Fathal Bari?)
  4. Regarding History Of Quranic Text

    Thanks brother for trying to help but this is not the question I am really asking. I know of what you are talking about of the things you listed, the question I have is: If Allah decreed 7 dialects; taking the burden off the Prophet from reciting in 1 dialect only, why did the Companions discard what Allah had revealed to the Prophet and return to 1 dialect in written form? (Mushaf) I mean I know its a good thing that the Quran was compiled into 1 dialect but wouldn't Allah then just decide as well 1 is better? Why would Allah allow 7 if we all knew 1 dialect is better? Does this mean the Companions were more competent than Allah? Or am I missing another factor here?
  5. Regarding History Of Quranic Text

    Okay I'll be sure to check them out. I have one last question about this book. I still haven't really found an answer to this question as this was the main thing I was looking for. On page 154 it talks about "over twenty Companions have narrated hadiths confirming that the Quran was revealed in seven dialects." Here is where I find myself confused. Allah reveals through Jibriel to the Prophet that the Quran is allowable in 7 dialects. Yet After the Prophet's death Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman take a different direction and only make the Quran in 1 dialect. Now I know that having 1 dialect was a good thing because people would not differ on how to recite but my question is if Allah allowed 7 dialects for Muslims to recite in, why would the Companions feel the need to do more than Allah and narrow it down to 1 dialect? Is this inferring that the Companions thought they were more competent than Allah? (On page 163 this person might be thinking the same thing I am: "...Some orientalists allege that these scholars were attempting to improve upon the Quran's text; such a claim is blasphemous, insinuating that the Companions regarded themselves as more knowledgeable than Allah the All Knowing, the All Wise.")
  6. Regarding History Of Quranic Text

    Thank you brother for the help. So who would you consider a classical scholar? Do you mean the ones who were companions of the Prophet?
  7. Regarding History Of Quranic Text

    Okay this makes sense. Please help me with the other ones when you have time Salem
  8. Regarding History Of Quranic Text

    ** I read the article on: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_seekersguidance(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/ans-blog/2010/0...-early-muslims/"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_seekersguidance(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/ans-blog/2010/0...-early-muslims/[/url] I was a bit confused on some parts. Here are a few: I dont want to take this quote out of context but this seems to be the explanation I'm getting at. Basically this person is saying even the Makkans who sought to destroy the Muslims were not one to be treacherous snakes. Yet this person writes that these 'Makkans renounced their own citizenship' - which does not make sense to me if these Makkans were not ones to deceive. I think this gets as close to answering the question I had about raiding caravans. I guess some things were just permissible from Allah no matter what anybody says. But this lead me to another question. I watched a lecture by Dr.Tahir ul Qadri talking about fatwa against terrorism. He says that there is an unconditional ruling that forbids terrorism and that there are no 'buts' or 'ifs' to justify a terrorist act. So what about the caravan raids? Doesn't raiding caravans fall into the 'but' or 'if' category? So for instance a ruling in Islam could say 'do not kill a man because it is like killing the whole of mankind.' Now if we put a 'but' or 'if' ruling it might sound like this: 'do not kill a man because it is like killing the whole of mankind "BUT" if someone attacks you then it is permissible to strike the attacker down in death.' So this might now justify raiding caravans because on a certain condition it would be okay to massacre (aka terrorism) people and repossess the stolen goods that were once taken from the Muslims. I understand if Muslims were only fighting back to take possession of what was stolen from them. I have no problem accepting this but what confuses me is what Dr.Tahir ul Qadri talks about. Maybe if I never heard him speak this concept would not be more confusing. ** Okay so I guess Abdu Amr changed his name to Abdur Rahman once Islam was establishing. So then what does 'Abdu' mean from Abdu Amr? ** Right. So this was just a figure of speech? ** I have re-read this page and here is what it says: So doesn't this prove Abu Bakr did not know Quran very well?
  9. Regarding History Of Quranic Text

    Okay I guess you bring up a good point here. But what about Muslims raiding Jewish caravans in Medina? Didn't that occur?
  10. Salem I am currently re-reading the "History of the Quranic Text" by M.M. Al-Azami. I am coming across some things that are sparking up new curiosity. I am including the link where you can view the book in-case of quick reference. - (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_individual.utoronto.ca/fantastic/"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_individual.utoronto.ca/fantastic/[/url] - If you copy and paste that and click on the second link below 'download quran viewer' you can access the PDF but you might have to rotate the whole thing clockwise. In page 24, Prophet Muhammad is commanded by Jibriel to "read". We all know the Prophet was illiterate. My question is if Jibriel knows the Prophet is illiterate, why would he tell the Prophet to read? Does this mean the Prophet carried books with him into the cave? What is it he was supposed to read if there were no books in front of him? Isn't to 'read' a different word than it is to 'recite'? How come the verse says he was commanded to 'read'? (according to M. M. Al-Azami) On page 30 the people protecting the Prophet from Qurash made a pledge that included refraining from stealing from that day forth. On page 32 before the battle of Badr the Prophet and his companions decide to raid Quraish's caravan. My question is - aren't caravan raids the same thing as stealing? Isn't that what the Prophet made a pledge not to do with the people who were protecting him? (Hisham and al-Muttalib) Wasn't the Prophet raiding caravans on a regular basis to keep him and his army alive while he was acquiring strength in Medina? On page 59 it mentions people who reverted to Islam - Abu Bakr being the first. Along with his reversion were some of his friends who also embraced Islam - Abdur Rahman bin Auf and a few others. I want to take a look at this person's name Abdur Rahman bin Auf. My question is was his name Abdur Rahman before he embraced Islam? Would that mean this person already knew who Allah was prior to his reversion? Wouldn't that mean he reverted to Islam before Abu Bakr or possibly the Prophet? On page 78 - How come Abu Bakr informs Zaid ibn Thabit that Allah has reconciled with him for the task of compiling the Quran? Did not Allah only speak and reconcile with the Prophet? How is it now Zaid claims that Allah reconciled Abu Bakr, Umar, and himself for the task of compiling the Quran? On page 79 it talks about an elderly woman approaching Abu Bakr for advise on inheritance from a deceased grandson. Abu Bakr replied that in the Quran there is no mention of grandparents receiving inheritance from grandchildren. Al-Mughira recalls that there was a verse that would apply in grandma's favor. My question is how is it that Abu Bakr, supposed to be caliph because he knew Quran very well could not recall the verse Al-Mughira brought up?
  11. Abraham Muslim Or Hanifa?

    Thank you for brother. I think you brought up another good point. I will not argue over what is abstract which will lead me to meaningless discussion but when it comes to simple things I think those simple things should stay simple and be easy to comprehend.
  12. Abraham Muslim Or Hanifa?

    ...Say, [O Muhammad], "Indeed, I have been commanded to be the first [among you] who submit [to Allah ]... Good point; thank you. I just wanted to know another verse such as this that would still be in line with Quran. The general theme of the term ' first muslim' in the Quran is the first among a group or nation that became Muslims. The contention would stand some ground if Moses or Abraham or Muhammad pbut claim " I am the first Muslim EVER', but none of them did, hence they were the 'first Muslims' from among their nation, that is all. Thank you again brother for finding the above verse for me. now don't go around and ask people what does 'Alif Lam Meen' means... Dont worry brother. I don't have an idea of where I would go with this one.
  13. Abraham Muslim Or Hanifa?

    Ya good point. I dont know though about some things. I just think that there should be more clear cut answers for something so simple...
  14. Abraham Muslim Or Hanifa?

    You know its really funny how when I keep trying to ask questions - after a while people get tired of answering me. I just think its funny how Muslims expect one's self to defend Islam intellectually when Muslims are not answering the questions being brought up. Do we just ignore people who have serious questions?
  15. Abraham Muslim Or Hanifa?

    Salem brother. Ok I read the verses before it - Say, "Indeed, my Lord has guided me to a straight path - a correct religion - the way of Abraham, inclining toward truth. And he was not among those who associated others with Allah ." Say, "Indeed, my prayer, my rites of sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allah , Lord of the worlds. No partner has He. And this I have been commanded, and I am the first [among you] of the Muslims." (Surah 6:161-163) I'm reading these verses but I keep coming back to the same question. How come this verse does not specify he was the first Muslim among the Arabs as 'twowordsdali' pointed out? It just says 'he was the first Muslim' which leaves it open to a lot of different interpretations. See the brother 'twowordsdali' brought up a good point but I am wondering where in the Quran does it say what 'twowordsdali' says? ("and he was the first amongst the arabs to come back to the original religion of Prophet Abraham. And he was first to be a muslim in Arabia when no one was being a muslim,...") If I found a verse in the Quran that said this exact same thing, then I would be convinced this is what is meant. Im sorry brother but I dont seem to understand by what you mean of this. Are you trying to explain by relating this example to why Prophet Muhammad is mentioned as the first Muslim?