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sickle

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Everything posted by sickle

  1. I am starting this thread as a peaceful way to discuss the differences between the two & go over some things that might bother someone who is devoted to Christianity. I can truly start no argument on the assumption that someone is wrong, therefore I start off with the assumption that Islam is right ( as a means of discussing not as a personal preference you understand ) and as such I ask three simple questions to start with and when some have answered I will pose two more. I would humbly ask that the user with the handle of the sad clown be a sort of referee or judge on this so that things do not get insulting or mean. Because at the end of the day whether Christian or Muslim I think we agree ( at least for those who are loyal to their individual faith with sincerity ) that we desire only to worship the creator and please him. Hopefully if we remember this then at the end of the day we can refrain from talking to people in a way which I do, personally at least, believe would be less than pleasing to the creator of all that is. My first question involves a verse from the Bible ( yes you may respond using the Qur'an as your reference ) Luke 1:26-38 26 In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.†29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.†34 “How will this be,†Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?†35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.†38 “I am the Lord’s servant,†Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.†Then the angel left her. In this verse, which was the accounting of the most educated man among the disciples of Jesus as Luke was well reputed to be, the angel Gabriel tells Mary that she will conceive of the Holy Spirit & that this child will be the son of the most high, the son of God. This seems contrary to the teachings of Islam. But perhaps more interesting ( and entering into my second inquiry/question) is that Gabriel said be not afraid Second question, "be not afraid" almost seems to be a calling card of Gabriel the angel of God. In fact in the accounts of Gabriel in the Bible ( Daniel 8:15-17, Daniel 9:21-24, Luke 1:11-19 & Luke 1:26-35 ) someone is either falling on their face in fear or scared out of their wits ( also note that both counts of Gabriel in the New Testament of the Bible are in the book of Luke ) so then a proper accounting of whether it was Gabriel who visited Muhammad or not should be clear in how he responded Finally, if Allah is the only God as is to be said in a shahada then why in the well known 10 commandments did God say, thou shalt have no other gods before me for I am a jealous god? ( I can provide this verse using any translation of the Bible you wish )
  2. Genesis 19:24, "Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens" ....interesting Psalm 2:7, "will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, You are My Son, today I have begotten You" Genesis 6:3 "And the LORD said, ‘My Spirit shall not strive with man forever." Matthew 22: 41-46 He asked, "What do you think about the Christ?" "Whose Son is He? They said to Him, ‘The Son of David.’ He said to them, ‘How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying: The LORD said to my Lord, ‘Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool’? ‘If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?’ And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore." Isaiah 9:6-7, "For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, to order it and establish it with judgment and justice from that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this!" John 3:13 "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is the Son of Man who is in heaven." 15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.†John 14:15-21 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. John 14:10-14 “All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 14:25-26 I have more but verses like this especially where it says to pray in his name seems contrary to the teachings of Islam. Also last time I checked Jesus didn't pray five times a day, does this mean he didn't submit to the will of God? He did not normally pray in arabic, contrary to the salat and Jesus said himself that he will sit on the throne over the Earth and be judge. While you can refute the Bible due to its many translations the fact of the matter is that the concept of Jesus telling others to pray in his name and especially the Lord's prayer in which he instructed his followers on how to pray is in every translation of the Bible. If it is in every translation would it not be logical to say that this is truth? If it is in every translation does that mean that Jesus did not know the proper way to pray? also Allah refers to himself as the greatest deceiver as all and while you can say that God killed, what the commandments say actually is thou shall not commit murder and if you follow that up by reading the book of Leviticus you will find that there are allowances for killing someone and that murder in that time constituted killing someone without reason in cold blood. If someone was done wrongly it was justifiable to kill them. Every time someone was killed by God in the Bible it was because they did not follow the law or the commandments set down by God. Also if Islam is really only a continuation of the old teachings would it not stand to reason that there would be use of incense and sacrifice as this was the old way tracing all the way back to Genesis? Even modern non-religious experts on the history of the Hebrew people will tell you this is the case.
  3. Muslims state that Islam is the right path and that Muhammad was the final messenger of God. So rather than argue and debate I offer an open shot here to all. Prove to me that Islam is the faith of the one creator and that Muhammad was his messenger. You will see me on here but I will not be responding, ever. Just reading
  4. I had my shahada today. Something nagged me to follow through on it & go to the Muslim center here & there I had my shahada. A little background: I have tried many faiths as I was raised to test my faith and to never accept something blindly. I have done this with almost all denominations of Christianity & several other religions as well including Wicca. I was nestled for most of my life though in the Southern Baptist faith and there became a devote Christian who was zealous for my faith, some would have called me a fundamental Christian. I don't know how many know this but there are differences among the Christian denominations ( sects ). Some believe that authority and understanding come through the holy spirit while others think it comes through the Father, others Jesus ( pbuh ) but there are some who believe in the Bible as the word of God and that it is the direction of how to live life handed down by God ( when one is called a fundamental Christian it is usually those who believe the Bible as is and accept it as the truth ) and it was, oddly enough, the teachings of the Bible that led me to Islam. But, more specifically it was the teachings of Jesus ( pbuh ). I initially had issues with the contradiction in what was written in the Bible and what people were practicing in their everyday life. Then I started to have other issues. For example, if Jesus ( pbuh ) was the redeemer that offered us a way into heaven through his self sacrifice as is supposed in Christianity then why were there not one but two who went to heaven. Elijah ( pbuh ) and Enoch ( pbuh ) were both taken into heaven before they even died and it says this in the Bible, find any version you like it will say the same thing. Also Jesus ( pbuh ) was clear in saying that many will come in his name claiming that he has sent them but do not be deceived & not that long after he died ( again, according to the Bible ) Paul comes along and has the great vision on the road to Damascus. The Catholic Church says that Peter was the first Pope because he was given the keys to the kingdom by Jesus ( pbuh ) & yet 90% of the sermons they preach and is preached by other Christian leaders is from Paul. This made no sense. What really seemed oddest of all to me, & I had several arguments over this with my then fellow Christians was that Jesus ( pbuh ) said over and over again to follow the commandments and even at one point said that whoever follows the commandments of his father who is in heaven shall be great in heaven. Obviously I was facing many issues but being open minded as I was I began to look into Islam. I was going to test it & compare it to the Biblical teachings & more specifically the teachings of Jesus ( pbuh ) because as a Christian I was supposed to be a follower of Jesus ( pbuh ) first & foremost. Initially I was unconvinced then somehow I came across this white guy from Texas with a ton of facial hair that even had a southern accent, Yussuf Estes. It was upon listening to him and some of his use of Bible verses that I began to become more interested & I didn't just take his word for it either. I went back and read the verses in context to see if he was speaking from truth or error. From there it seemed to have a snowball effect, websites, youtube videos. I continued to try and test Islam and the message and more and more I came close to accepting Islam. I found my final peace last night through this website actually after someone linked me to another website on these boards that answered my few remaining questions and at roughly 4am I knew in my heart that Islam was the message of Allah and that Muhammad ( pbuh ) was indeed the prophet he said he was. Now, with my story told I have a very simple question ( sorta ) .... I have accepted Islam, now what do I do? what do I not do? Before you even ask yes the Islamic center was very friendly and I have multiple contact numbers, at least one of which I will likely be calling tomorrow but since I am on here tonight.
  5. While I did look into Islam and I did take a shahada & in fact even saw two people from masjid today I was still relatively new to everything and did not even know how to say the proper words for salat although I had learned how to perform Wudhu. In fact I had just received a transliteration of the Surah Al-Fatiha ( an essential part of every properly done salat ) the same night that I eventually went back to Christianity. However, I will say that I have heard arguments for & against this.
  6. Christianity & Islam

    I have already answered your question. Did you not understand the break down of how languages transition especially when it is being translated into English ( or one of the other Latin based languages such as French, or Spanish ) ? the capitalization is not just in son or in god but in other areas as well. It places emphasis. This has been explained right here above. The capitalization is done in order to show that it is a proper noun and not a pronoun. In English when you speak of something specific like Taco Bell you capitalize the first letter as it is a proper noun, the name of something specific. If it is something general like a restaurant the letter is not capitalized. Thus as when god specifically refers to the being Yawhew in scripture the letter g in God in capitalized to indicate a specific person, place, thing or ideal and likewise the son of a god would be lowercase because that is a general statement but the son of the god should be capitalized as that is speaking of a specific person. If this is your great example for disproving the Bible I have to be skeptical as this is a basic example of translating from one ( or in the case of the Bible, two assuming it is being translated from original language and not from Old English or German as many were ) language to another and as such certain alterations will occur in order to convey the same message because if it is done literally the message will not necessarily make sense in the other language. Ask a native spanish speaker to literally translate the spanish words of a movie to you sometime and watch as it comes out "altered" because languages are different in nature. Now that the lesson in grammar is over I kindly redirect you back to the 3 questions at the start of this:
  7. So let me see if I understand this accurately, the current argument is that the Bible has in-discrepancies & the Qur'an is today as it was in the past and as such should be followed? So the logic we are following now is if the religion remains the same & is unchanged over time we should follow it? Assuming ( from a non-biased view point...momentarily ) that everything Muslims believe about the Bible is accurate it still fails to logically show any reason why anyone anywhere should follow the Qur'an or any legitimate reason why Islam is supposed to be from God as opposed to any other faith. For example, technically speaking Norse has not changed over the years & is in fact the same today as it ever was. Does this now mean that I should start worshiping Odin? The words on the Norse religion has not been tampered with and can be found in original format. If we are talking about validation of source then perhaps Buddhism as the source is well known and a chain of credibility ( I believe that is the coin-term ) can be used to trace back who wrote it and when. Technically speaking Scientology has a chain of credibility as well as they can trace back to who wrote the first book. To me this current line of thinking sounds more like, this one bad, this one good. What evidence is there for following Islam?
  8. Christianity & Islam

    I have answered your question already in the previous response, if you do not find it satisfactory that is fine but you still have failed to address any of my questions
  9. John 14:7-10 John 10:30-38 Matthew 27:43 John 17:3-12 Luke 22:66-70 Daniel 7:13-14 ( one of my personal favorites as it answers that age old non Christian question as to why Jesus called himself the son of man ) Proverbs 30:4 Isaiah 9:6-7 (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetbiblegateway(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/"]An online Bible ( with option for any translation you prefer )[/url]
  10. Christianity & Islam

    a son is only used when talking to Mary about her son whom shall be named Jesus ( if you read the Bible you will find that Mary did in fact have other sons, one of whom was a disciple of Jesus ) thus he was a son of Mary ( or one of more to come ) while he was the son of the Most High, the son of God ( indicating only and a direct blood tie to God the father ) and the translation uses God with a capital G for emphasis because it is written in English. In Aramaic they would not need the capital letter to understand the difference between the two if you have ever studied another language you see this problem frequently, for example if I were to translate something directly from Spanish to English it would seem like it is saying something different to the native Spanish speaker who is not overly familiar with English because certain things have to be changed for the message to make sense in the other language. Now quid pro quo, I have asked a question, you responded with a question. Out of courtesy I answered. Now kindly address the rest of the post please and thank you
  11. Why Was The Wtc Bombed?

    The Ottoman army occupies Buda after the crushing Hungarian defeat in the Battle of Mohács. September 11th 1526 Expulsion order announced against the Moriscos of Valencia; beginning of the expulsion of all Spain's Moriscos. September 11th 1609 Technically speaking the world trade center was first attacked in 1993 a more interesting question might be what was the purpose of the world trade center? The world trade center was essentially the financial heartbeat of the world... in order to truly ( and logically ) understand why the world trade center was attacked you need to try and see it from outside your own perspective aj4u. These people wanted to bring global anarchy through financial instability across the planet. They wanted to initiate the second coming ( similar to certain radical Christian groups in the past like the Waco, TX wack job )
  12. This is the most reasonable response I have heard from you. It is a very good answer although ( and if I am mistaken by all means correct me ) does not the shahada state, "I testify that there is no god but Allah and I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah"? note: if you continue to respond as you did in the above quoted mean then I will respond
  13. I kindly direct your attention to: Luke 1:26-38 26 In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.†29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.†34 “How will this be,†Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?†35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.†38 “I am the Lord’s servant,†Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.†Then the angel left her. denote that Gabriel ( only mentioned in the book of Luke in the New Testament btw ) told Mary that the son of the Most High would be born through her, that the son of God would be born to her. So your statement that the normal person who reads the Bible would not come to the conclusion that Jesus is God ( as you put it ) would be inaccurate as they would attest that he was the son of God and not just a son of God
  14. In Matthew 4:1-11 ( the temptation of Jesus in the desert by Satan ) Satan actually directly asks Jesus to worship him and tries to tempt him to do this by offering him all the kingdoms of the world thus indicating that Satan desires worship
  15. Walid Shoebat

    <a href="you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetyoutube(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/watch?v=5fE4beY8LjU&feature=related" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Walid Shoebat on Islam and Allah</a> <- this is a short explanation of his believes <a href="you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetyoutube(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/watch?v=9OxKMxds-P8" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Walid Shoebat, Islam/antichrist</a> <- longer version my curiosity is to the thoughts of Muslims/Arabs on this and does he have some valid points on translations? {Moderator note} This post has violated forum rule #3. Action taken. For more details, please read our (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?act=boardrules"]Forum Rules[/url].
  16. You do realize the comforter was Paul right? How could Jesus appear to Paul on the road to Damscus unless he was no longer here on Earth? What did Paul do in most of the letters to the early churches? He gave comfort, not really rocket science there
  17. ahem but uh Christians are never actually directed to 'worship' Jesus. We are simply told by Jesus, himself, to pray in his name and that the Father's glory might be known he will do it for us. We are not told to pray to Jesus but Jesus taught us to pray to the father and many a Christian will then at the end say, in Jesus name, amen. The only ones I know of that pray to Jesus instead of through Jesus as he instructed us is the Catholics for which I cannot help you because I am Christian & there are times I barely understand that lot of people
  18. the foundation of my believes: Yawhew was and is and will always be the creator God, Yawhew chose Abraham to birth a great nation called israel whom Yawhew called his bride, his land, his child. The Hebrews ( Jews btw are only one group of Hebrews if anyone actually reads the recounting of the tale of the tribes of israel. The Hebrews were chosen as the people of God through whom he would do his works and make his majesty known. Jesus is the messiah, he was conceived of immaculate birth. Jesus did in fact get crucified, was placed in a burial room and rose on the third day after which he spent a little over a month with his disciples before ascending into heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. Why do I believe that Jesus did get crucified...? Well frankly because it makes the most sense. If the leaders of israel at that time ( the Pharisees ) would have known Jesus had not in fact been crucified they would have rioted and this is why the Romans went ahead with the crucifixion because the governor assigned over israel had already had several insurrections ( Pontius Pilate ) and if there was another one he could in fact lose his station as governor and quite possibly his life. Why would these individuals who hated Jesus so much ( later as Christianity began to spread this hatred would be joined between Romans and Hebrews alike ) not simply point out that in fact he never was crucified? They would have had first hand account of whether or not Jesus had taken the trip to golgotha. Simple validation of facts would have more than sufficed to end the massive growth of the then thought of cult known as followers of Christ. If I am to write off the Bible ( which btw in protestant Christianity, especially in the south, includes the Old & New Testaments ) then there is no reason for me not to follow someone else. If I am to write off the Bible as some have suggested then I have no more reason to believe the Qur'an than say the 5 Vedas, the puranas, The Book of the Dead, the Thirteen Classics, the Kojiki, Tao Te Ching, or even the Book of Shadows.
  19. Also in Exodus chapter 34 verse 14 ( the first of the 10 commandments ) reads: Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. any other god? If God is the only god ( and as I am to understand it there are no capital and lower case letters in aramaic languages ) then why even mention other god? Clearly here God ( Yawhew ) is indicating that there are in fact other gods but that it is he alone that we are to worship.
  20. Walid Shoebat

    a simple yes or no would have sufficed
  21. Walid Shoebat

    and the other symbol which translates to the words recited in the shahada?
  22. I thank all of you because of your challenging of my believes has forced me to read the Bible even more than before and now I realize that the great comforter that Jesus was speaking of was Paul as there was no way that he could appear to Paul on the road to Damascus as a glorious vision unless he had already left. I believe that Paul was the prophet, what was his message you say? His message was that salvation is for all the world including the gentiles and this salvation could be found through Jesus. As to the claim about the corruption of the Bible, I find it hard to believe it is all that corrupted if you take away the King James Version and those that used it as a basis for retranslating. Bible's like the New International Version went back to the old Hebrew & Greek in order to properly translate. Also there are certain hidden sects of Christianity that can trace their roots back to the original Christians ( primarily in Africa ) and their understanding of Jesus is very similar to that of which is found today. I will reply more later...
  23. a) again not understanding this area. Honestly I have never seen an internet cafe in my life, I hear they have lots of them up north though b) and "thou shalt not tempt the lord thy God" is a clear verse, I am not going to anger Yawheh for you c) you still have not addressed any of the questions originally asked in the first post despite the fact that I have been answering yours, it seems to me that you are only interested in trying to antagonize instead of actually answering anything and as such I think I am done replying to anything you post
  24. Walid Shoebat

    Perhaps my question was unclear so I shall restate it, is his translation of the symbols accurate or inaccurate?
  25. apparently you are not understanding of the lack of money down here. I dont have a webcam Next drinking it deliberately to test the Lord my God would be in contradiction to the teachings of Jesus now wouldn't it? "thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God" Matthew 4:6
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