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iceHorse last won the day on December 14 2013

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About iceHorse

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  1. Do You Back Western Intervention In Syria

    Are regional leaders doing any meaningful peacekeeping?
  2. Do You Back Western Intervention In Syria

    Can you describe what you think the rest of the world should do, if anything? (wow, this thread came back from the dead :) )
  3. The Quran Explains The Quran

    In verses 4:82, 10:15, 26:195, 43:2, 43:3 the Quran declares itself to be clear and understandable, and in 86:13 it declares that it holds the strict laws.
  4. The Quran Explains The Quran

    Younes, I think I have a good idea from you, thanks. dot, Happy New Year! I'm not trying to argue, but sometimes the best way to learn is to discuss the edges and the difficult concepts.
  5. Islamic Values, Take 2

    Since making this post, I've had some further discussions, and I think I might be able to be more specific. First, I was directed to this quote from Hassan al Banna. (I hope he is not a controversial figure, I just liked the quote): From my Western perspective I have to say I like this definition. Now it does leave some important details out. Below are four "values" that most people in the West view as essential: - freedom of speech (this includes the right to criticize any religion) - equality for all people (this includes women, gays, and Jews) - secular government (this means no Sharia) - freedom of religion (this means apostasy is not a crime) Whether you consider yourself "moderate" or not, I'm curious to know your stance on these four values. Of course it could well be that you agree with some but not all!
  6. The Quran Explains The Quran

    I tend to agree with QEDs logic. But either way, I would hope that we can say that the Quran can never be wrong. In other words, if some Imams say that the Hadith provides *extra details* not provided by the Quran, that could be okay. But shouldn't we be suspicious if any of the Hadith disagrees with the Quran?
  7. Several months ago I asked about Islamic values. At that time I left the question open-ended. Since then I have found a short list of values that I think sum up the things I care about: - Honor - Freedom - Arts - Knowledge - Friendship - Logic - Compassion Do you agree with this list? If not, how would you change it?
  8. Best Hadith Says Koran Is Corrupted

    Well now I'm getting confused. In a separate thread I proposed that the Quran is: true, clear, understandable and complete. No one disagreed with that proposal!
  9. The Quran Explains The Quran

    After six days, no one has disagreed with these conclusions. So, if we can say that the Quran is true, clear, understandable, and complete, then why are the Hadith needed at all? It would almost seem that the Hadith were created by people who didn't agree that the Quran is true, clear, understandable and complete?
  10. As I study the Quran I find many places in which it explains itself and defends itself against any attacks that might happen. Here is how I understand these verses: == The Qualities of the Quran 4:82 - The Quran has no contradictions within itself 10:15 - The Quran is clear and not changeable 15:9 and 41:41 - The Quran cannot be corrupted 26:195 - The Quran is written in plain (Arabic) language 39:23 - The Quran repeats some parts many times 43:2 and 43:3 - The Quran is clear and understandable 69:51 - The Quran is true and certain 86:13 - The Quran contains the strict laws (of Islam) == About Muhammad and the Quran 6:105 - The Quran is not a plagiarism 12:111 - The Quran is not a forgery 25:4 - The Quran is not a lie, it is not invented by Muhammad 81:22 - Muhammad is not a madman Do you think I have understood these passages correctly?
  11. Can We Define "moderate Muslim" ?

    I'm here to learn, not argue. On this point we will have to agree to disagree. :)
  12. Can We Define "moderate Muslim" ?

    Here are several places where the topic of fighting and dying for Allah is discussed: 3:140 3:143 3:157 3:158 3:169 - 3:172 4:69 4:74 4:75 4:77 9:20 9:29 9:38 - 9:43 9:86 33:16 33:23 47:2 - 47:4 47:20 56:10
  13. Can We Define "moderate Muslim" ?

    andalusi - I didn't know that. thanks! but in the Quran translation that I read, that's not the kind of martyrdom that the Quran is mostly talking about. it might be that the sort of situation you described is discussed a few times, but for the most part, martyrdom is discussed in the context of fighting non-believers. Correct?
  14. What Is Islamophobia To You?

    To look at it from a strictly academic perspective, we could say that: "Islam" is a collection of ideas, and "phobia" is an irrational fear of something. So technically, we could define Islamophobia as: "An irrational fear of the collection of ideas known as 'Islam' ". Now, whenever I see this term used in practice, it's not meant this way. It's usually meant as a short-hand for "bigotry against Muslims". I think it's a bad term that does more harm than good. Of course I know that sometimes there is "bigotry against Muslims". In a similar way, a lot of people don't like Jews, and we have a word for that, "anti-semitism". But anti-semitism refers to the people, not the ideas of Judiasm. The reason I say that the word does harm, is because of organizations like CAIR in the U.S. If someone in the U.S. burns a Quran, CAIR shouts: "Islamophobia!". But in the U.S., we are free to criticize every religion. If we want to, we can burn Qurans or Bibles or Torahs or the Bhagavad Gita, or whatever. And in the U.S. (and in other places in the West), people DO protest against religion; every religion. Not everybody likes the ideas in the Bible. not everybody likes the ideas in the Quran. Muslims think Christians are going to hell, and Christians think Muslims are going to hell, and some people (like me), think nobody is going to hell. So when CAIR cries "Islamophobia!" most people just think: "There go those CAIR jerks spouting off again". This doesn't help anyone.
  15. Thanks Younes, So reviewing, and it also sounds like the idea of classifying or rating (e.g. weak, sound, good...) ? Is it largely true that a relatively small percentage is considered to be "the best"? For example, if you understand this 10%, you really will have a good sense of the Hadith in general? If so, can anyone point me to that, most useful portion?