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Everything posted by gill

  1. Well, my friend, which country can you show up in and say I am a Muslim (or Christian) and get full rights of citizenship, the right to vote etc? You can make the argument but cannot back it up. You say I am right that non-Muslims don't have freedom to travel, but refuse to accept it as an example. Consistency is a crucial part of having a debate, but when you are merely arguing, anything is in play. I feel sorry for you former acquaintance who either waited too long to get with the program or arrived here too late in life. Perhaps she can look to the country where she has citizenship. Oh right, that would be unfair, she should be supported by US taxpayers instead. The system here is just so darn unfair, I am surprised she wasn't on the first jet to her country of origin. Now because I happen to have the good fortune to be born in the US I have a superiority complex? What is this, a kindergarten debate? Everyone was born somewhere and becomes a citizen without a test. It sounds like a bunch of sour grapes. Let's all get out our tiny violins. Boo hoo, I wasn't born here, boo hoo, I can't pass the test. And by the way, I don't really like you and what you stand for but I want all the rights and privileges that you have, with zero cost. My guess is that you cannot even comprehend how absolutely ridiculous this line of reasoning is. The logical solution is too return to your country of origin where you would not have to put up with the ridiculous concept of testing for citizenship. (Hopefully the test includes the ability to discriminate between religion and citizenry) I am sure that your homeland will provide all the things that you continue to complain that this country does not provide. Free entry to everyone, citizenry to everyone, no need to learn the language, or take any test. Put you on the government dole simply at your request. I am sure all these benefits will be to US standards. Social security payments at the current dollar to dinar conversion rate. Education at US levels at taxpayer expense. I wonder how I would be treated if I found myself in Saudi Arabia, complaining to high heaven about essentially everything Saudi, not speaking the language, arguing with all the Muslims about how great Christianity is, seeking automatic citizenship as well as demanding to be put on the dole?
  2. Sorry but you are the one changing the subject. This started out comparing the rights of a Kafir in a Muslim country and a Muslim in the US. I took it for granted that we all know that citizens have rights that non-citizens do not. Fourth grade stuff. Second, a US citizen living in Venezuela will be assisted by his country. A person who visited the US but in now in trouble in Venezuela presumably is a citizen of some country, he should look there for assistance. Now we maybe are into sixth grade stuff. All people can become Muslims. All people can become Christians. Religion is not the same as citizenry. Back down to maybe third grade stuff. Unreal. Yes, everyone can become a citizen, but there are requirements, just as in any country. What in the world are you expecting? Rolling a demented person in a wheelchair up to a judge and get automatic free citizenship? In the land of Oz maybe. More grade school stuff. I guess it is a sign of the times, people have a right to public education through high school, but pass a test? How unfair. Example number one. Freedom of travel. Non-Muslims cannot travel to Mecca. Discrimination based upon religion. Your turn. The US is a country of immigrants as were my grandparents. They became citizens by passing a test, and yes they had to learn English to do so. They were proud to be Americans and did not bad mouth the country that offered them opportunity. My grandfather had to take a job in the lumber industry. It is a dangerous job even today with workers sitting inside large pieces of heavy machinery much of the time. Back then, there were no chain saws, being a lumberjack meant swinging an ax all day long, trying to make enough money to pay passage for the rest of the family. To those who failed the test, you can pass this on along for me, work hard, study hard, stop whining.
  3. Perhaps I should have said that there is equal protection under the law. Of course citizens have rights that non-citizens do not. Give me a break. What country can you visit on vacation and vote in their elections? You are dodging the issue. Everyone can become a citizen, no matter their nationality etc. You have shown exactly zero examples of second class citizenry in the US. Of course, if you have not established residency, have not been allowed to enter the country, you are not going to gain citizenship while living elsewhere. Now if you are talking about our immigration laws being in need of reform, I would agree. That is not to say they are discriminatory. Every country has immigration laws. This would not be an issue if folks were really wanting to immigrate to the good old US of A. One sees very, very few complimentary comments about the US in this forum and tons of bad mouthing. Why would someone with that type of mindset even think about coming to the US in the first place? Why would one care? To try to make the argument that since there are more Mexican immigrants than there are those from Yemen, that the US is a country that allows second class citizenry?
  4. You have no idea? Perhaps that is true. You have never heard that non-Muslims cannot travel to Mecca? Build a Christian Church? Preach the Bible? Different tax rates for Kafir? You have never heard of any of this? Are you serious or just take me for a fool? Anyone, of any race, creed, religion or nationality is entitled to full and equal rights in the United States, whether you are a citizen, resident or an illegal alien. Expect to be escorted out if you are illegal and there are restrictions to immigration, but it would be hard to find a country that does not have similar laws. I would like to see an example of a US law that discriminates against any nationality. The closest we come to that are the laws that favor minorities, which is the same as saying they disfavor majorities, in reality white males, but that is a whole separate topic. I mention it only to point out the extent which this country has gone to prevent discrimination.
  5. I see no insult in Hathan's post, implicit or otherwise. Exclusively calling members of your faith brother and sister seems harmless enough unless seen in context. If you are not a brother or sister, you are a Kafir, a second-class citizen, when there is a Muslim majority who chooses to enforce the law. It is not just a discriminatory mindset that some or many may have, it is written and enforced. We in the West have worked hard at eliminating second-class citizenry and I would personally hate to see us reach the point where we would enforce discriminatory laws on those who discriminate against us. There is no escaping from the fact however that folks will often obtain the same amount respect that they choose to show others.
  6. Even he knew better than that :sl: Texas has its own set of problems directly affecting it, but I suppose we should all be concerned world events in this age of globalization.
  7. Robert Fisk appears to be a truther. Scroll down to Sept 11 attacks: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Robert_Fisk"]Wikipedia[/url] I honestly believed that this tread was started to bring forth ideas that would actually help the folks in the Middle East.
  8. I quickly scanned "Constant Conflict Philosophy" and there are two minor references to Islam in 11 pages: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetscribd(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/doc/54742379/The-%E2%80%9CConstant-Conflict%E2%80%9D-Philosophy-Doctrine-by-Maj-Ralph-Peters-Deputy-Chief-of-Staff-for-Intelligence"]Constant Conflict Philosophy[/url] It looks more like more of clash of civilizations than a tirade against Muslims. Here is what google provides for "The Mendacity of Hope" by Roger D Hodge: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetamazon(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/gp/product/006201126X?ie=UTF8&tag=washpost-books-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=006201126X"]The Mendacity of Hope[/url] It looks like Obama bashing. The last time I heard Mr Peters speak, he was saying we should end the whole Afghanistan project, perhaps keep a base there. He is a former military guy, who tends to disagree with the left and the right and often is critical of the direction of the military.
  9. The Jews are a successful people when compared to just about anyone. Education is really important but it is not the whole story. We all know people who are well educated but really out of touch. To dominate the movie industry one has to be in touch with society, and with globalization, in touch with much of the world. To build a successful and competitive society, one must be tied in with the rest of the world, not set apart by ideas and mindsets that are shared by essentially nobody else. If there is a new heart procedure or technical advance in manufacturing in another part of the world, one should be aware of it, communicate with colleagues and be ready and willing to incorporate that into your way of doing things. Even the Japanese, who are really earnest about remaining Japanese, are fully integrated into the global community. China and Korea are a couple other good examples. The game plan already exists, it is the implementation that is difficult. Even staying on course can be problematic; the US has definitely strayed.
  10. I guess we can stipulate that the map will never be reality, but today's reality is that Middle East is volatile, unlike Europe, where folks are getting even more cozy in Euroland. The only exception I can think of is the Basque Separatists. If we could see some of the folks separated from other folks who they really don't get along with, it sure would help. It looks like the Kurds are doing pretty well with their limited autonomy.
  11. Thank you big time, Silkworm. I am a fan of Mr Peters. Whether you agree with him or not, he is a smart guy with independent thought. I have not seen this article, but some time has passed since it was published. It would be interesting to see if he has tweeked his viewpoint. Here is the map: ######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetoilempire.us/oil-jpg/afj.peters_map_after.JPG[/img]
  12. Pretty darn strong statement. If you are a non-Muslim and have an opinion, odds are you are guilty of a hate crime?
  13. Hearing some of these same words over and over remind me of an old saying amongst attorneys: If you know the law, pound the law. If you know the facts, pound the facts. If you don't know either, pound the table.
  14. It makes you wonder why something like this was posted in the Islamic-Western dialogue, in hopes of gaining converts I guess. It's interesting that what seems perfectly acceptable to one party in the dialogue will seem totally over the top to the other. In that respect, it may be instructional in the differences between Islamic and Western thought. Westerners can thank of all folks, the Catholic Church of a millennium ago, and their struggle with the new found knowledge of the ancient Greeks. It's so easy for us now to have both spiritual beliefs and scientific knowledge without the need for one to supersede the other.
  15. Al Jazeera World: I Knew Bin Laden

    Thanks for posting. I watched it in it's entirety. It seemed fairly balanced but it does seem to need a part two. Forty-five minutes and it ends with Clinton not killing him.
  16. I said that 911 evidence is not relevant anymore. If you don't get it by now, you never will. No sense in continuing...... with you..... or others like you who feel the need to call others dishonest if you disagree with their opinions, or interpretation of the facts.
  17. tom, I thought I would google it just to make sure of your meaning: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_idioms.thefreedictionary(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/speak+with+forked+tongue"]Speaking with forked tongue[/url] Disagreement with another's posts is understandable, in fact, it would not be much of a forum if everyone thought the same way. Calling another's words dishonest is a whole different thing. Our dialogue is over.
  18. Six people, including two imams at Masjids in Florida, have been indicted on charges that include providing support to Pakistani Taliban terror plots, federal prosecutors said Saturday. Miami U.S. Attorney Wilfredo Ferrer announced the charges following the arrests of Hafiz Muhammed Sher Ali Khan, 76-year-old imam of the Miami Masjid; his son Izhar Khan, 24 years old, an imam at Jamaat al-Mu'mineen Masjid in Margate, Fla., a nearby suburb; and another son, Irfan Khan, 37 years old. All three are U.S. citizens of Pakistani origin and residents of south Florida. Federal Bureau of Investigation agents arrested Hafiz Khan after early morning services outside his Miami Masjid and Izhar Khan was arrested in the parking lot of his Masjid around the same time early Saturday, said John Gillies, special agent in charge of the FBI's Miami office. Irfan Khan was arrested at a hotel in Los Angeles, he said. Mr. Ferrer said: "Despite being an imam, or spiritual leader, Hafiz Khan was by no means a man of peace. Instead, as today's charges show, he acted with others to support terrorists to further acts of murder, kidnapping and maiming." (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_online.wsj(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/article/SB10001424052748703730804576323190890136916.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories#printMode"]The Wall Street Journal[/url] Although freedom of religion is one of our most cherished rights in the US, the time may soon be here when we start to look closely at what we accept as a religion, and what is merely a front for hatred and violence.
  19. I don't think 911 "evidence" is relevant anymore, except to those whose minds are clouded with one conspiracy theory on top of another. The irony is that no amount of evidence will allow them to believe anything that is inconsistent with their world view. Likewise, those in control of the evidence have been looking to bring bin Laden in dead or alive for nearly a decade. No need to justify anything at this point. I am sure that folks like the ones needing more 911 evidence need some justification, something they are unlikely ever to obtain. The evidence, more accurately, information, obtained at the bin Laden camp has as its number one priority the location of bin Laden's fellow lowlifes. Hopefully, they will be served the same drink......two shots and a splash. The bulk of the information will probably be a long time in reaching those without security clearances. Some of the information that has been released has been interesting for those trying to understand what type of guy he really was. I found the video of him sitting there watching himself to be strange, at best. Experience has taught many of us that those in public life, and our private lives as well, who preach piety to others are often no better, and often much worse than those who have had to listen to the preaching.
  20. Pornography found in bin Laden hideout (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetreuters(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/article/2011/05/13/us-binladen-######-idUSTRE74C4RK20110513"]Reuters[/url] Yeah, yeah, we know. Show you the evidence.
  21. Don't you just love it when folks talk utter nonsense, then tell you what you are supposed to do and not do. Then tell you to produce evidence, as if they could produce some. Never have seen a conspiracy theorist who could conduct a rational debate, ever.
  22. LOL's are hard to come by on this forum, but you got me with that one. Some folks never have seen a conspiracy theory they didn't like. We could start our own. Let's see...... Bin Laden's wife, 7 of 9, really did not see him shot. She was, what else, a Zionist spy, that's why we cannot find her now, of course. Obama, who is really George Bush after reconstructive surgery, has seen to it that Osama will break Guiness' world record for water boarding. Rumor has it that he already has the record. Only a rumor. however.
  23. FURIOUS BIN LADEN SUPPORTERS VOW TO TAKE REVENGE (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetexpress.co.uk/posts/view/245148/"]Express[/url] ######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_images.dailyexpress.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/285x214/245148_1.jpg[/img] Interesting sign :sl:
  24. I'm betting against us seeing anything like ethnic cleansing. The shine seems to be off the multicultural apple though. Folks are starting to see though others who have taken advantage of the freedoms provide by the West.