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The Master's Lieutenant

God in Bible and Quraan

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Samiullah, like it or not, we both worship God.  Just in different ways.

 

Yank, How do you worship God?

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Yank, How do you worship God?

 

Grace and Peace be with you Khamosh,

 

How did Noah, Enoch and Abraham worship God? With faith and trust and prayer and thanksgiving for what God provided for them in His generousity perhaps?

 

There was no Mecca, no kabah, there was no Jerusalam, no Temple, there was no law except that which was written on the hearts of the faith-filled. I think that was the primary reason Jesus kept pressing the Great Commandment to the Jewish people because in the evolution of the "laws of Moses" they had forgotten what served as the linchpin for the "whole" of the law and the Prophets (love of God and neighbour).

 

But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. - Matthew 22:34-40

 

For Christians of most any strip, this serves as the very foundation of the "whole" of our faith (love of God and neighbour). It is my guess that Yank worships God in like manner.

 

When we ask, what does this look like in practice, we can look at Matthew...

 

But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. "It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." - Matthew 20:25-28

 

We can also look to James...

 

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. - James 1:27

 

So what does Scripture tell us about our worship? Well, it tells me that I am to serve, love and take care of my fellow mankind and to love, praise and give thanks to God in Christ Jesus.

 

Peace 4 Real.

Edited by Ignatius

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Hi,

 

I believe your opinions were based on inadequate understanding of the role of Jesus in Christian's belief. This is the greatest difference between Islam and Christian. Who is Jesus? For Christian he is both God and Man. God becomes man so he can be sacrificed in order to deal with SIN. Anyone who wants to be saved must deal with Jesus because only Jesus(God) can deal with SIN. If any man wants to deal with sin on his own then he will pay for his sin by going through hell forever. I don't believe Islam has that concept. There is no such thing as sacrifice for SIN. SIN can be paid by doing good. It's something like a commodity. For a muslim there is no such thing as God giving guarantee that he is saved. It all depends on the final account of good vs. bad deeds in one's life. Christian sees God as the one providing the guarantee. That guarantee is God is willing to sacrifice His own life to save man. That's how much God's love is. That is real.

God's love is not cheap. It is not just words. It is words in action.

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Dear The Master's Lieutenant and others,

 

Please do not take the Bible and various verses entirely out of context to suit your own ends which is exactly what you have done. I could do the same for the Quran but you would be, understandably, extremely offended and I would probably be banned.

 

All the best.

 

 

Could you please give these examples in context.

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Hi,

 

I believe your opinions were based on inadequate understanding of the role of Jesus in Christian's belief. This is the greatest difference between Islam and Christian. Who is Jesus? For Christian he is both God and Man. God becomes man so he can be sacrificed in order to deal with SIN. Anyone who wants to be saved must deal with Jesus because only Jesus(God) can deal with SIN. If any man wants to deal with sin on his own then he will pay for his sin by going through hell forever. I don't believe Islam has that concept. There is no such thing as sacrifice for SIN. SIN can be paid by doing good. It's something like a commodity. For a muslim there is no such thing as God giving guarantee that he is saved. It all depends on the final account of good vs. bad deeds in one's life. Christian sees God as the one providing the guarantee. That guarantee is God is willing to sacrifice His own life to save man. That's how much God's love is. That is real.

God's love is not cheap. It is not just words. It is words in action.

 

 

Why must the all powerfull god become a man to forgive the thire sins?

Isn't a sin something that goes against the will of god? Isn't it IRONIC that god has to secrifice himself, to justify forgivness? Further more, if Jesus is god, and he knew he would die, Shouldn't he have tried to avoide it? After all, it would be considred "suicide" to know that u will be killed, but not avoiding the outcome. So, did god commit suicide? Is a Jesus a suicide bomber?

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Why must the all powerfull god become a man to forgive the thire sins?

Isn't a sin something that goes against the will of god? Isn't it IRONIC that god has to secrifice himself, to justify forgivness? Further more, if Jesus is god, and he knew he would die, Shouldn't he have tried to avoide it? After all, it would be considred "suicide" to know that u will be killed, but not avoiding the outcome. So, did god commit suicide? Is a Jesus a suicide bomber?

 

Yes, perhaps it is entirely hard to grasp the concept of a self-sacrificing God. After all we haven’t seen any of such a self-sacrificing love from the Leaders of this earth. Our Leaders sends men to win the battle. Our leaders do not send themselves in it; instead they gather up bodyguards to protect them.

 

Certainly how can a powerful, mighty, all-knowing God lower himself as man! Perhaps it is somewhat easier from a human perspective to accept a Mighty All-knowing Creator as a figurehead that you have to work your way up to in so that you may earn his favor. After all, our Human leaders present us a great example of this scenario, even our parents and our friends! We earn their favor by doing things that pleases them. Such is the limitation of Man’s love. God however can love unconditionally, even as we are hurting him with our sins.

 

Now you ask why Jesus’ death is a necessity so that sin may be forgiven.

 

I believe we all agree that God is Absolute and that he is Just.

 

That should also mean that his Holiness must be absolute. It is because of his Absolute Holiness that he cannot overlook Sin and it because he is Just that he rewards the rightful punishment for sin which is eternal death. Something had to be done to put an end to sin, so that it may be forgiven. Someone had to pay the price of our sins so that we do not have to pay it in the full measure of eternal death.

 

That is where role of God in the flesh comes. He came down to earth as the ultimate sacrifice. Sacrificing himself by dying in our place, paying the price of sin which is eternal death thereby putting an end to both.

 

So, did god commit suicide? Is a Jesus a suicide bomber?

 

Well we need to know the difference between suicide and sacrifice.

 

What is the purpose of a suicide bomber? What does it accomplish? To kill the many/ the death of the many.

 

What is the purpose of Jesus’ death on the cross? What did it accomplished? The life of the many.

 

Now I ask this of you. What is a creator if his creation does not know him? How exactly do we define God’s love if it hasn’t been revealed to us by him? More-over how can we honestly declare that we love God above all if he himself has not shown us the full measure of his grace? We humans who love conditionally!

 

I come to you with this answer. The necessity of Jesus’ death on the cross when entirely understood both in heart and in mind becomes the revelation of God’s love for us. That even as we are hurting him in our sinfulness, he loved us.

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Bismillahirrahmaanerraheem

Grace and Peace be with you all,

 

I was reading through this thread but some of the posts were a bit long and didn't appear to really address anything that I could really grasp.

 

As I understand it, there are some differences between the Biblical God (Yehweh) and the Qur'anic God (Allah).

 

As I understand it, the Qur'an teaches that Allah brings about Good and Evil. Is this true? If so, this is not what we are taught in the Bible. Can someone explain this?

 

Thanks.

 

Peace 4 Real.

Grace and peace be with you too

 

The Bible does infact teach that the Lord, Yahweh, brings about both Good and Evil.

 

Infact, the Bible is Far more extreme...judge for yourself:

 

II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against israel, and he moved David against them to say,

Go, number Isreal and Judah.

compare with:

I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Isreal, and provoked David to number israel.

 

You have two choices...either the Lord is Satan...and this is undoubtedly a great blasphemy, or the Lord is behind both the Good and Evil.

 

Peace 4 Real

Edited by newnew

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God Attributes in Bible and Quran

...

Does God Need to Refresh ?!

...

Does God Need to Refresh ?!

Bible :

 

For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. [Exo. 31:17]

 

Quran :

We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us. [Quran 50:38]

 

I have read the Quranic references in this post and agree with all of them: yet I still accept the Bible! How so? Consider what was told me of the 'Light Verse' with its references to glass and oil etc.:

 

The verse is a "similitude" or a "parable". There is no lamp, there is no glass, there is no tree, and there is no bright star. It's all metaphorical.

 

Christians agree that God does not rest, for He is almighty. It is all "metaphorical", as the Bible also says,

 

Have you not known? Have you not heard? The everlasting God, the LORD, The Creator of the ends of the earth, Neither faints nor is weary. His understanding is unsearchable.

 

Bible, Isaiah 40:28

 

Why is it I get the feeling that Muslims are taught to think that Christians are incapable of symbolical interpretations of the Bible? Why do you Muslims want us to adhere to literal interpretations of the Bible, which in the above cases (from post #1) can only produce an absurd belief in Allah?

 

Richard

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God Attributes in Bible and Quran

...

Does God Need to Refresh ?!

 

Bible :

 

For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. [Exo. 31:17]

 

Quran :

 

We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us. [Quran 50:38]

 

I have read the Quranic references in this post and agree with all of them: yet I still accept the Bible! How so? Consider what was told me of the 'Light Verse' with its references to glass and oil etc.

 

The verse is a "similitude" or a "parable". There is no lamp, there is no glass, there is no tree, and there is no bright star. It's all metaphorical.

 

Christians agree that God does not rest, for He is almighty. It is all "metaphorical", as the Bible also says,

 

 

so simple Richard, because in Quran that exactly what Allah told" ... ãËá äæÑå ßÜ " which litterally means " the similtude of his light is like a..... the Moslems didn't add these words.

while in the bible case we can't find " as he is resting, or like ... or the similitude of a resting god..."

 

would you plz interpret this verse from your point of view, what it suppose to be like [Exo. 31:17]

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Yes, perhaps it is entirely hard to grasp the concept of a self-sacrificing God. After all we haven’t seen any of such a self-sacrificing love from the Leaders of this earth. Our Leaders sends men to win the battle. Our leaders do not send themselves in it; instead they gather up bodyguards to protect them.

 

Certainly how can a powerful, mighty, all-knowing God lower himself as man! Perhaps it is somewhat easier from a human perspective to accept a Mighty All-knowing Creator as a figurehead that you have to work your way up to in so that you may earn his favor. After all, our Human leaders present us a great example of this scenario, even our parents and our friends! We earn their favor by doing things that pleases them. Such is the limitation of Man’s love. God however can love unconditionally, even as we are hurting him with our sins.

 

Now you ask why Jesus’ death is a necessity so that sin may be forgiven.

 

I believe we all agree that God is Absolute and that he is Just.

 

That should also mean that his Holiness must be absolute. It is because of his Absolute Holiness that he cannot overlook Sin and it because he is Just that he rewards the rightful punishment for sin which is eternal death. Something had to be done to put an end to sin, so that it may be forgiven. Someone had to pay the price of our sins so that we do not have to pay it in the full measure of eternal death.

 

That is where role of God in the flesh comes. He came down to earth as the ultimate sacrifice. Sacrificing himself by dying in our place, paying the price of sin which is eternal death thereby putting an end to both.

 

So, did god commit suicide? Is a Jesus a suicide bomber?

 

Well we need to know the difference between suicide and sacrifice.

 

What is the purpose of a suicide bomber? What does it accomplish? To kill the many/ the death of the many.

 

What is the purpose of Jesus’ death on the cross? What did it accomplished? The life of the many.

 

Now I ask this of you. What is a creator if his creation does not know him? How exactly do we define God’s love if it hasn’t been revealed to us by him? More-over how can we honestly declare that we love God above all if he himself has not shown us the full measure of his grace? We humans who love conditionally!

 

I come to you with this answer. The necessity of Jesus’ death on the cross when entirely understood both in heart and in mind becomes the revelation of God’s love for us. That even as we are hurting him in our sinfulness, he loved us.

That rings all true to me! Our God in the Bible is very personal, but the god of the Quran seems to be impersonal by comparsion. Even though Muslim say he is closer to us than the juglar, what does that mean? Edited by aj4u

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"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall hiss for the fly that is in the uttermost part of the rivers of Egypt, and for the bee that is in the land of Assyria" IS 7:18

 

"In the same day shall the Lord shave with a razor that is hired, namely, by them beyond the river, by the king of Assyria, the head, and the hair of the feet: and it shall also consume the beard" IS 7:20

 

" Then the LORD awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine" Ps 78:65

 

what could that interpreted?

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Do you and other Muslims want me to believe that God gets tired like a human? or that He is beyond all such worldly attributes, being Supreme over all?

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"In the same day shall the Lord shave with a razor that is hired, namely, by them beyond the river, by the king of Assyria, the head, and the hair of the feet: and it shall also consume the beard" IS 7:20

 

This is a translation into old English (referred to as KJV, it was King James I of England who authorised this translation about 400 years ago). I presume you think this verse means that Allah needed to shave his beard? (Why do you want us to believe in such blasphemous rubbish? I don't understand.)

 

Looking at other translations produces an easier reading in English:

 

In the same day the Lord will shave with a hired razor, With those from beyond the River,* with the king of Assyria, The head and the hair of the legs, And will also remove the beard.

(NKJV the New KJV, translation based on the KJV, but with modern English usage)

 

In that day the Lord will use a razor hired from beyond the River*—the king of Assyria—to shave your head and the hair of your legs, and to take off your beards also.

(NIV - New International translation, made I think about 40 years ago, seeking to make the source Greek and Hebrew even more understandable; this is better than the NKJV for those who's grasp of the English language is not so good)

 

Do you think Allah literally will shave using the king of Assyria as a razor? Doesn't the thought arise within you that this is symbolic? It is not Allah who shaves himself: the verse is talking about the king of Assyria coming to destroy the land, 'shaving the hairs off the land', so to speak. We Christians too know that Allah is beyond such things.

 

Consider this:

 

8:17: Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower.

(Pickthal translation)

 

Here the Quran does not use the word 'similtude' of Allah throwing, so according to your way of approaching the Bible, should I take this as meaning that Allah had to pick up in His hands some dust or stones, lift them up and then move his arm in their direction quickly? This is what it means to 'throw'.

 

Or perhaps I should read it as I would read the above quotations from the Bible, symbolically? It is the power of Allah that is being referred to, for Allah is not like a man but is beyond all human conception.

 

My heart is greatly saddened within me on seeing such foolishness: why did you not try to think for yourself how I might interpret it? How is such an approach trying to show me the peace within Islam?

 

Using the same symbolic way you interpret this verse of the Quran, you will be able to dismiss the Bible verses mentioned in this topic as being no more than symbolism.

 

Richard

:sl:

:'(

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Do you and other Muslims want me to believe that God gets tired like a human? or that He is beyond all such worldly attributes, being Supreme over all?

these questions have to be directed to the bible writers, scribers, and translators, and to those who hide and lost the original copies, and we add our voices to you in that.

 

the Moslem see the god,Allah Çááå , as the only perfect, the absolute and the most holy , "Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. " Y: [112:1-4], he is in no need of wives, sons, brothers,...or any thing. while evry thing is in urgent need to him,

 

The god' "zaat, ÐÇÊ", self or physics (the how and why)… is out of our knowledge, capabilities and mind limitations, except what he, all mighty told about himself, without how. ".... there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things)" Y: 042.011

 

while He almighty show himself through his attributes and beautiful names. he is Allah Çááå and he is......

1 ÇáÑÍãä Raḥmān The Exceedingly Compassionate, The Exceedingly Beneficent, The Exceedingly Gracious

2 ÇáÑÍíã Ar-Raḥīm The Exceedingly Merciful Beginning of every chapter except one, and in numerous other places

3 Çáãáß Al-Malik The King

4 ÇáÞÏæÓ Al-Quddūs The Holy, The Pure, The Perfect

5 ÇáÓáÇã As-Salām The Peace, The Source of Peace and Safety, The Savior

6 ÇáãÄãä Al-Mu'min The Guarantor, The Affirming

7 Çáãåíãä Al-Muhaymin The Guardian

8 ÇáÚÒíÒ Al-‘Azīz The Almighty, The Invulnerable, The Honorable

...

...

96 ÇáÈÇÞí Al-Bāqīy The Immutable, The Infinite, The Everlasting

97 ÇáæÇÑË Al-Wārith The Heir, The Inheritor of All

98 ÇáÑÔíÏ Ar-Rashīd The Guide to the Right Path

99 ÇáÕÈæÑ Aṣ-Ṣabūr The Timeless, The Patient

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam[/url]

 

do we agree on this?

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"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall hiss for the fly that is in the uttermost part of the rivers of Egypt, and for the bee that is in the land of Assyria" IS 7:18

"In the same day shall the Lord shave with a razor that is hired, namely, by them beyond the river, by the king of Assyria, the head, and the hair of the feet: and it shall also consume the beard" IS 7:20

" Then the LORD awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine" Ps 78:65

what could that interpreted?

 

This is a translation into old English (referred to as KJV, it was King James I of England who authorised this translation about 400 years ago). I presume you think this verse means that Allah needed to shave his beard? (Why do you want us to believe in such blasphemous rubbish? I don't understand.)

 

In the same day the Lord will shave with a hired razor, With those from beyond the River,* with the king of Assyria, The head and the hair of the legs, And will also remove the beard.

(NKJV the New KJV, translation based on the KJV, but with modern English usage)

 

In that day the Lord will use a razor hired from beyond the River*—the king of Assyria—to shave your head and the hair of your legs, and to take off your beards also.

(NIV - New International translation, made I think about 40 years ago, seeking to make the source Greek and Hebrew even more understandable; this is better than the NKJV for those who's grasp of the English language is not so good)

 

Do you think Allah literally will shave using the king of Assyria as a razor? Doesn't the thought arise within you that this is symbolic? It is not Allah who shaves himself: the verse is talking about the king of Assyria coming to destroy the land, 'shaving the hairs off the land', so to speak. We Christians too know that Allah is beyond such things.

Don't blame me or any Christian for the bad translation? You re-read it from the KJV and tell me what it mean even with metaphors?

 

i have no problem with the NIV translation on the contrary i can see the verse is nice "the God will use some one as a razor to shave for others" it seems to be metaphor of "the God will punish them"

while the meaning in the NKJV is totally different, i think it had a fatal mistake in translating such verse from my point of view and the scholars who translated the NIV too.

 

that's exactly what they told in the NIV introduction [Yet the King James Version has grave defects]

 

the question here, didn't the Christians wait too much to know about the grave mistakes in the KJV? what about the many generations who lived and died while believe that was the literal word of god?

isn't the status was worse before the KJV?

what could be these grave mistakes that the NIV corrected?

 

i'll try to download the NIV, and check the other "strange verses" from my point of view and then i may discuss it.

 

do you have any idea about some (political effect) differences between the NIV 1952 edition and the NIV 1971 edition? if though, which one do you prefer?

 

8:17: Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower.

(Pickthal translation)

Here the Quran does not use the word 'similtude' of Allah throwing, so according to your way of approaching the Bible, should I take this as meaning that Allah had to pick up in His hands some dust or stones, lift them up and then move his arm in their direction quickly? This is what it means to 'throw'.

i have no problems with that too, we have many of these " beauty pictures" in the Quran and in our daily life. it have an important branch in Arabic language called "Balaghah ÈáÇÛÉ" mostly "Rhetoric",

I can understand from the verse it indicates to "the direct and near support of the god to the believers"

 

Or perhaps I should read it as I would read the above quotations from the Bible, symbolically? It is the power of Allah that is being referred to, for Allah is not like a man but is beyond all human conception.

As I told you I cam easily perceive the NIV verse, while I believe that's not what the KJV indicates neither by direct meaning nor by any metaphoric meanings. And the Arabic versions too indicate no good meanings.

in the other two verses what could the "the god will hiss to the flies" or " the god will get up as a drunkard" be metaphor for? indicates what?

 

My heart is greatly saddened within me on seeing such foolishness: why did you not try to think for yourself how I might interpret it? How is such an approach trying to show me the peace within Islam? Using the same symbolic way you interpret this verse of the Quran, you will be able to dismiss the Bible verses mentioned in this topic as being no more than symbolism.

Don't blame me, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings,

I don't see any problem to admit that there are "translation problems" in the "KJV" and some have been corrected in the "NKJV", and others were corrected by "NIV" and will never reach the absolute for many reasons.

That will not in sake of the Moslems but you the Christian, just few of these mistranslated verses turned great percentages of the Christians to atheism, whish is so bad

 

Plz cheer up, we are just talking

Have a nice day

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"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall hiss for the fly that is in the uttermost part of the rivers of Egypt, and for the bee that is in the land of Assyria" IS 7:18

"In the same day shall the Lord shave with a razor that is hired, namely, by them beyond the river, by the king of Assyria, the head, and the hair of the feet: and it shall also consume the beard" IS 7:20

" Then the LORD awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine" Ps 78:65

what could that interpreted?

Don't blame me or any Christian for the bad translation? You re-read it from the KJV and tell me what it mean even with metaphors?

Are you saying you're a Christian?

 

 

the question here, didn't the Christians wait too much to know about the grave mistakes in the KJV? what about the many generations who lived and died while believe that was the literal word of god?

isn't the status was worse before the KJV?

what could be these grave mistakes that the NIV corrected?

 

i'll try to download the NIV, and check the other "strange verses" from my point of view and then i may discuss it.

 

do you have any idea about some (political effect) differences between the NIV 1952 edition and the NIV 1971 edition? if though, which one do you prefer?

 

 

i have no problems with that too, we have many of these " beauty pictures" in the Quran and in our daily life. it have an important branch in Arabic language called "Balaghah ÈáÇÛÉ" mostly "Rhetoric",

I can understand from the verse it indicates to "the direct and near support of the god to the believers"

 

 

As I told you I cam easily perceive the NIV verse, while I believe that's not what the KJV indicates neither by direct meaning nor by any metaphoric meanings. And the Arabic versions too indicate no good meanings.

in the other two verses what could the "the god will hiss to the flies" or " the god will get up as a drunkard" be metaphor for? indicates what?

Don't blame me, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings,

I don't see any problem to admit that there are "translation problems" in the "KJV" and some have been corrected in the "NKJV", and others were corrected by "NIV" and will never reach the absolute for many reasons.

That will not in sake of the Moslems but you the Christian, just few of these mistranslated verses turned great percentages of the Christians to atheism, whish is so bad

 

Plz cheer up, we are just talking

Have a nice day

There are translation errors in every Bible, the KJV has plenty, but I wouldn't be so foolish as to demiss the Bible as the Book that reveals His plans for our lives!

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(AHMAD_73 [at] Nov 15 2011, 09:40 AM)

"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall hiss for the fly that is in the uttermost part of the rivers of Egypt, and for the bee that is in the land of Assyria" IS 7:18

"In the same day shall the Lord shave with a razor that is hired, namely, by them beyond the river, by the king of Assyria, the head, and the hair of the feet: and it shall also consume the beard" IS 7:20

" Then the LORD awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine" Ps 78:65

what could that interpreted?

0-- Don't blame me or any Christian for the bad translation!! You re-read it from the KJV and tell me what it mean even with metaphors?

Are you saying you're a Christian?

" ÇáúÍóãúÏõ áöáøåö ÇáøóÐöí åóÏóÇäóÇ áöåóÜÐóÇ æóãóÇ ßõäøóÇ áöäóåúÊóÏöíó áóæúáÇ Ãóäú åóÏóÇäóÇ Çááøåõ"

by the meaning of following the messenger (Essa ibm Maryem), yes i'm following his orders and worshiping his god, Alhamdo llelah, and every Moslem have to be so.

 

(AHMAD_73 [at] Nov 15 2011, 09:40 AM)

1-- the question here, didn't the Christians wait too much to know about the grave mistakes in the KJV? what about the many generations who lived and died while believe that was the literal word of god?

2-- isn't the status was worse before the KJV?

3-- what could be these grave mistakes that the NIV corrected?

 

i'll try to download the NIV, and check the other "strange verses" from my point of view and then i may discuss it.

 

4-- do you have any idea about some (political effect) differences between the NIV 1952 edition and the NIV 1971 edition? if though, which one do you prefer?

 

i have no problems with that too, we have many of these " beauty pictures" in the Quran and in our daily life. it have an important branch in Arabic language called "Balaghah ÈáÇÛÉ" mostly "Rhetoric",

I can understand from the verse it indicates to "the direct and near support of the god to the believers"

 

As I told you I cam easily perceive the NIV verse, while I believe that's not what the KJV indicates neither by direct meaning nor by any metaphoric meanings. And the Arabic versions too indicate no good meanings.

 

5-- in the other two verses what could the "the god will hiss to the flies" or " the god will get up as a drunkard" be metaphor for? indicates what?

Don't blame me, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings,

 

I don't see any problem to admit that there are "translation problems" in the "KJV" and some have been corrected in the "NKJV", and others were corrected by "NIV" and will never reach the absolute for many reasons.

 

That will not in sake of the Moslems but you the Christian, just few of these mistranslated verses turned great percentages of the Christians to atheism, whish is so bad

 

Plz cheer up, we are just talking

Have a nice day

There are translation errors in every Bible,

6-- great, and so you are ready to know what are these "errors" so you can know what was the real god word? or not yet

 

the KJV has plenty (of errors),

7-- it will be too nice of you to show me a list of these errors, or at least the most significant

8--and then what is the bible who have the least number of errors, in your opinion?

 

but I wouldn't be so foolish as to demiss the Bible as the Book that reveals His plans for our lives!

and you can't keep ignoring that the rest of your life too

 

have a nice night

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Are you saying you're a Christian?

" ÇáúÃóãúÃõ áöáøåö ÇáøóÃöí åóÃóÇäóÇ áöåóÜÃóÇ æóãóÇ ßõäøóÇ áöäóåúÊóÃöíó áóæúáÇ Ãóäú åóÃóÇäóÇ Çááøåõ"

by the meaning of following the messenger (Essa ibm Maryem), yes i'm following his orders and worshiping his god, Alhamdo llelah, and every Moslem have to be so.

There are translation errors in every Bible,

6-- great, and so you are ready to know what are these "errors" so you can know what was the real god word? or not yet

7-- it will be too nice of you to show me a list of these errors, or at least the most significant

8--and then what is the bible who have the least number of errors, in your opinion?

and you can't keep ignoring that the rest of your life too

 

have a nice night

Why do you want a list. It won't help me or you and whatdo you mean by ignoring the rest of my life?

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Why do you want a list. It won't help me or you and whatdo you mean by ignoring the rest of my life?

1st, i'll consider that, you will not answer any of my queries :sl: !!! or you will??????

 

2nd both of your questions have the same answer, you said

 

but I wouldn't be so foolish as to demiss the Bible as the Book that reveals His plans for our lives!

if these plans are based on the bible?

 

while many of the bible words/meanings have "errors", then i think it's too important to know what are these errors. else you may have wrong plans

 

which bible, you mainly use to set your life plans????????

 

salam

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which bible, you mainly use to set your life plans????????

 

I have put my thoughts on the different Bible translations in the topic titled "Christian And Jewish Scriptures":

Bible Versions

 

Too many topics are taken up by the silly disputes over the Bible translations and manuscripts - please reply there.

 

Richard

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"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall hiss for the fly that is in the uttermost part of the rivers of Egypt, and for the bee that is in the land of Assyria" IS 7:18

"In the same day shall the Lord shave with a razor that is hired, namely, by them beyond the river, by the king of Assyria, the head, and the hair of the feet: and it shall also consume the beard" IS 7:20

" Then the LORD awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine" Ps 78:65

what could that interpreted?

Don't blame me or any Christian for the bad translation? You re-read it from the KJV and tell me what it mean even with metaphors?

 

i have no problem with the NIV translation on the contrary i can see the verse is nice "the God will use some one as a razor to shave for others" it seems to be metaphor of "the God will punish them"

while the meaning in the NKJV is totally different

 

The NIV translation is just easier to read, the NKJV follows the wording of the old KJV making it not quite so easy to read for those who do not know English as their first language ...

 

You quote from Isaiah 7:18 about the Lord calling ('hiss' indicating a metaphor of his anger at israel, so he does not just 'call' them) for the people of Egypt and Assyria - symbolised as biting flies and bees who will bite and sting israel, another metaphor.

 

So the KJV translation of Isaiah 7:20 means the same as the NIV - just read it in context.

 

Regarding 'resting and being refreshed' please go to

 

Does God Refresh Himself?

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_answering-Islam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Responses/Osama/zawadi_god_refreshed.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_answering-Islam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Responses/Osama...d_refreshed.htm[/url]

 

Search the web for "the LORD awaked as one out of sleep ..." and how it does not mean that Allaah get tired or drunk. I have not done this, but leave it as an exercise for you!

 

The reason I am sad on reading such things is that you do not seem to be asking with a view to changing your opinion, but only to throw seemingly difficult problems to us. I could go on and on about Allaah 'throwing' in the Quran, but I don't. I raised it as a comparison. Treat us as you would want to be treated.

 

Peace,

 

Richard

:sl:

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Bible VS Quran:

In Bible Satan Is The God Of The World !!
In Quran Allah Is The Lord Of The Worlds !!
In Bible Jesus Is The Cursed One !!
In Quran Satan Is The Cursed One !!

◄ 2 Corinthians 4:4 ►
New Living Translation
4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

◄ Galatians 3:13 ►
New International Version
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.

===========================

◄ Quran 1:2 ►
All praise is to Allah, Lord of the worlds.

◄ Quran 16:98 ►
So when you recite the Qur'an, [first] seek refuge in Allah from Satan, the expelled and cursed one [from His mercy].

No automatic alt text available.

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