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Shazzo

Death & The Pope

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Asalamu'Alycom

Brother, there is.  One who commits Shirk and dies committing it will NEVER be forgiven.  Brother, every Scholar has supported this.  What you are saying is a very Grave error. 

 

Subhanallah your heart is Miskeen (Innocent) and may Allah bless you for that, but there is a limit we have stop at. 

 

We have the right to say, Whoever denounces Islam is in Hell-Fire no matter what.

 

Just look at the example of the Prophet's (salla Allaahu 'alayhi wa salaam) Uncle.

 

We must not take it as a joke for whoever goes to Hell, but we can say whoever dies denouncing Islam will be in Hellfire, as long as we don't say it as a joke or laugh.

--------------------

 

Vist my new Islamic Site:

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_hstrial-besmail.homestead(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Islam.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_hstrial-besmail.homestead(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Islam.html[/url]

 

:D

Exactly

:D brother

and also :D sister Shazzo

:D :D

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:D

 

The Quran says, "Surely those who have faith (in Islam) and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabaeans - whoever believes in God and the Last Day - their reward is with their Lord and they will neither fear nor grieve"

(Quran 2:62 and 5:69).

 

so i'm confused!

 

Muslim narrated in his Saheeh (916) from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I asked my Lord for permission to pray for forgiveness for my mother, and He did not permit me. I asked Him for permission to visit her grave, and He granted me permission.�

 

was the mother a non-believer? :D

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:D

 

Yes she was..^^ She died b4 the Prophet :saw: had become a Prophet

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:D

 

pope may go jannah or jahannam. but we cant talk as if we 100 % sure about afterlife. even we dont know ourselves if we go jannah..

 

and this will be without conclusion.

 

it was also interesting to read an article written by stephen hand. it is said when a Koran was given to pope as a gift he kissed the koran...

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it was also interesting to read an article written by stephen hand. it is said when a Koran was given to pope as a gift he kissed the koran...

:D

 

see 2 pics of him "you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_forums.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=10978&st=0"]here in the first post[/url]. in one of them he's kissing the quran, and in second one he is prostrating like a muslim.

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Assalamualaikum,

 

pope may go jannah or jahannam. but we cant talk as if we 100 % sure about afterlife. even we dont know ourselves if we go jannah..

 

and this will be without conclusion.

 

it was also interesting to read an article written by stephen hand. it is said when a Koran was given to pope as a gift he kissed the koran...

 

SubhanAllah!!

 

If the pope died without saying the Shahaada then he will no doubt be given glad tidings of the Hell-Fire. There is no issue of we can't judge, we can't judge what the treatment of a muslim will be, a kafir's end is CLEAR CUT!!......nothing more to it.

 

Please read my refutation on the first page!!!

 

SubhanAllah it is unbelievable to see such ignorance here. If you do not believe that someone is a kafir when he so obviously is, then that will take you out of the fold of Islam also!

 

Fear Allah brothers and sisters for it seems most of you aren't even clear upon what you are on! Turn off your computers and go and study Tawheed & Aqeedah!! 90% of the posts here are pure ignorance, there are only a few brothers and sisters who know what they're talking about. Your all confusing each other.

 

Wallahi this forum does my head in sometimes

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Whether a soul goes to heaven or hell , only God knows this . Men are presumptious to second-guess God .

No one has returned to speak about it to date , so beyond death's door - no one has the answer .

 

One thing is for sure , the only one in the world who knows the fate of the Pope's soul ....is the Pope himself .

 

Men do not judge the immortal soul , therefore to cast doubt or approval is foolish .

The Pope was a good human being , and that should be enough for all , for there isn't anything else to be said or done .....for him or anyone else .

 

He will be missed , as any man of peace will be missed in a world that thirsts for peace .

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:D

 

Yea, and it was also said that b4 he was dying on his death bed he asked to have the bible be read over him..

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Assalamualaikum,

SubhanAllah!!

 

If the pope died without saying the Shahaada then he will no doubt be given glad tidings of the Hell-Fire. There is no issue of we can't judge, we can't judge what the treatment of a muslim will be, a kafir's end is CLEAR CUT!!......nothing more to it.

 

Please read my refutation on the first page!!!

 

SubhanAllah it is unbelievable to see such ignorance here. If you do not believe that someone is a kafir when he so obviously is, then that will take you out of the fold of Islam also!

 

Fear Allah brothers and sisters for it seems most of you aren't even clear upon what you are on! Turn off your computers and go and study Tawheed & Aqeedah!! 90% of the posts here are pure ignorance, there are only a few brothers and sisters who know what they're talking about. Your all confusing each other.

 

Wallahi this forum does my head in sometimes

 

:D

 

i understand your veiwpoint. but some people use the ayat below to say that it isn't all so clear-cut.

 

"Surely those who have faith (in Islam) and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabaeans - whoever believes in God and the Last Day - their reward is with their Lord and they will neither fear nor grieve"

(Quran 2:62 and 5:69).

 

What do u make of the above ayat?

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Wa Alaykum salam

 

The article is well written no doubt, a nice reminder that death is inevitable to everyone. What i find hard to grasp is the sense in which the author wrote this....one can not judge others no matter what, is not Asiya (ra) a good example...her husbnad was one of the worst kafir, yet she is promised paradise and the marriage of the prophet muhammad (pbuh). Let his existence live within the hearts of those he has touched personally....let his death be a reminder than no man can out-live life....Let him rest in his grave and focus on our own lives and not dwell on their deaths and their punishment or reward.

 

The pope has died....we all die.

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Guest amani

regarding the pope kissing the Quran

 

ermm i find that very wrong :D

 

when Umar RA wanted to see the verses when he was at his sisters house what did he have to do first?

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Peace and happiness to everyone,

 

'Allah's Mercy outweighs His Wrath'

But many Muslims’ wrath outweight their mercy

 

Hi, Amani

Allah guides who he wills.

And how does Allah exactly decide whom he will to guide and whom not?

 

Hi, Sis Quasab

 

Allah guides all those who want to be guided.

I cannot imagine that anyone does not want to be guided, so if everyone wants to be guided, Allah guides everyone, seems logical.

 

Hi, D-Ziner,

we should blame ourselves for letting him go without him accepting Islam.

And I suppose also for letting 4.5 billion other non Muslims “go without accepting Islam�. A lot of blame. Heavy load.

 

I suppose Allah is carefully reading this topic before deciding what to do with the Pope.

 

In the bible it says God will judge you as you judge others. Applied here, that means that those who think the Pope will go to hell will also go to hell, and those who are merciful and think he will be forgiven will also be forgiven.

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:D

 

Interesting thread and a good debate. Surely we should all be mindful of death, and ensure we prepare ourselves to meet our Maker.

 

However, I would like to ask your opinions on this Sahih Hadith from Bukhari:

 

Narrated 'Abdur Rahman bin Abi Laila: Sahl bin Hunaif and Qais bin Sad were sitting in the city of Al-Qadisiya. A funeral procession passed in front of them and they stood up. They were told that funeral procession was of one of the inhabitants of the land i.e. of a non-believer, under the protection of Muslims. They said, "A funeral procession passed in front of the Prophet and he stood up. When he was told that it was the coffin of a jew, he said, "Is it not a living being (soul)?" (Book #23, Hadith #399)

 

The Prophet (saw) stood up in respect for a funeral procession of a non-believer... Perhaps the sort of courtesy, kindness and respect we should show to anyone who dies?

 

:D

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Peace and happiness to everyone,

 

I suppose Allah is carefully reading this topic before deciding what to do with the Pope.

 

In the bible it says God will judge you as you judge others. Applied here, that means that those who think the Pope will go to hell will also go to hell, and those who are merciful and think he will be forgiven will also be forgiven.

 

peace brother,

 

i dont think it is right to judge pope as he will go to jannah or jahannam...

 

but the words of you about Allah insults me, coz He does not need to read any topic to decide anything. and He does not need to read coz He knows what we think or what we will think....thx

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From the perspective of a non-Muslim this topic seems quite confusing.

 

One would presume that Christians, even those not of the Catholic faith would see Pope John Paul as a spritual leader who would clearly be in heaven with God.

 

From a strict Buddhist perspective, the good Karma generated by the Holy Father would certainly result in a reincarnation which would be appropriate for a man of peace.

 

For Muslims, the death of a non-Muslim, even if that of a person of the higest level of consciousness, seems to be unclear and complicated.

 

I do not possess the answers, it is just an observation.

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Peace gill,

 

Obviously all of the above cannot be true. There can only be one truth. From an Islamic point of view, we do not speculate the fate of individuals. It is up to Allah :D to judge, and that's as far as we go.

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:D

 

Narrated 'Abdur Rahman bin Abi Laila: Sahl bin Hunaif and Qais bin Sad were sitting in the city of Al-Qadisiya. A funeral procession passed in front of them and they stood up. They were told that funeral procession was of one of the inhabitants of the land i.e. of a non-believer, under the protection of Muslims. They said, "A funeral procession passed in front of the Prophet and he stood up. When he was told that it was the coffin of a jew, he said, "Is it not a living being (soul)?"  (Book #23, Hadith #399)

 

 

 

Salam

 

Sister Anj:

 

An explanation of this hadith:

 

Muhammad Zakariyya Kandhlawi explains in his book "The Differences of the Imams" that there are two possible reasons why the Prophet, sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam, stood up; the difference of opinion being in the underlying cause of him standing up, sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam:

 

1. He immediately stood up when the bier of a disbeliever passed by. According to some narrations, he got up in honor of the angels accompanying the bier. If this is the case, there is even more reason to stand for the passing of a Muslim bier and the narrators of this hadith do not even mention the word "disbeliever" because it is irrelevant whether the bier is that of a believer or a disbeliever, due to the presence of the angels.

 

2. Other narrations indicate that the Messenger, sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam, stood up so that the bier would not pass above the heads of the Muslims, as it is a form of humiliation to them. In this case, standing would be restricted to the bier of a disbeliever only. Therefore, the word "disbeliever" must be mentioned in the hadith by the narrator.

 

I initially thought that the Prophet (sas) stood up out of respect for the soul also because this has always been the interpretation that I've heard of this hadith, but it seems from this explanation that it's not the case either way.

 

W'Allahu a'alam.

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Guest amani
From the perspective of a non-Muslim this topic seems quite confusing.

 

One would presume that Christians, even those not of the Catholic faith would see Pope John Paul as a spritual leader who would clearly be in heaven with God.

 

From a strict Buddhist perspective, the good Karma generated by the Holy Father would certainly result in a reincarnation which would be appropriate for a man of peace.

 

For Muslims, the death of a non-Muslim, even if that of a person of the higest level of consciousness,  seems to be unclear and complicated.

 

I do not possess the answers, it is just an observation.

 

 

 

hi

as muslims we do not want to make speculations :D

if he died as a non muslim then there is no doubt that, well, paradise is not for him

 

however we do not know what his last words were.

since none of us were there we cannot prove that he didnt say the words

 

`there is none worthy of worship but Allah. and Muhammed PBUH is the Prophet of Allah.`

 

if he died as we suspect he died, as a christian.then we believe he died in a state of disbelief..and therefore the place for such is hell.

 

:D

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strictly speakin, the good gonna go to heaven n the bad gonna go to hell

 

hence from christians' viewpoint, the pope gonna go to heaven. nonetheless god gonna have the final say

 

muslims can argue endless where the pope gonna be - hell or heaven. but its god's prerogative to make the decision nonetheless

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If you believe this Amani , then will you not have to expand the definition of what a muslim is ?

If a man can believe in the one God- live his life according to the One God's laws - do basically the same things a muslim does and observes throughout his lifetime -and after such a life , simply because he was not called "muslim " - do you feel the All Merciful God ,would reward such a life with hell ?

 

If so , would you please explain .

 

 

And what of those ,whom God has chosen to be born in such remote and diverse places on this Earth , where the words -muslim ,christian or jew have never been heard ?

 

 

Respects Amani , these are just questions , since the fortunes of birth are not chosen by men , but bestowed on them by the One God .

 

 

 

peace Paragon .

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:D

 

A Muslim is a person who believes in the One and Only God, believes in the Day of Judgement, and follows the Laws given by Him.

 

A person who says he/she believes in Him, but rejects any part of His Law/instruction has performed kufr (disbelief) to the extent of his/her rejection. The magnitude will affect the destination in the Hereafter. Rejection of a Messenger is a major rejection. Allah :D is Oft Forgiving and Most Merciful, and can forgive anyone for anything, depending on overall performance, belief in the heart, etc.

 

Following things blindly just because a person is born in an environment is not an excuse, specially where the person receives knowledge and rejects it. People in a remote area may be excused on these grounds, but not people who refuse to gain knowledge. Even some people who are born in a Muslim family follow things that are incorrect. They will not be excused from following innovation, which is totally discouraged in Islam.

 

Wassalam

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Guest amani

hi paragon

And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning).�[ 17:15]

i also found this which i think would answer your question..

 

A person who has never heard of Islam or the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and who has never heard the message in its correct and true form, will not be punished by Allaah if he dies in a state of kufr (disbelief). If it were asked what his fate will be, the answer will be that Allaah will test him on the Day of Resurrection: if he obeys, he will enter Paradise and if he disobeys he will enter Hell. The evidence (daleel) for this is the hadeeth of al-Aswad ibn Saree’, who reported that the Prophet of Allaah SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There are four (who will protest) to Allaah on the Day of Resurrection: the deaf man who never heard anything, the insane man, the very old man, and the man who died during the fatrah (the interval between the time of ‘Jesus, upon whom be peace and the time of Muhammad SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The deaf man will say, ‘O Lord, Islam came but I never heard anything.’ The insane man will say, ‘O Lord, Islam came but the children ran after me and threw stones at me.’ The very old man will say, ‘O Lord, Islam came but I did not understand anything.’ The man who died during the fatrah will say, ‘O Lord, no Messenger from You came to me.’ He will accept their promises of obedience, then word will be sent to them to enter the Fire. By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, if they enter it, it will be cool and safe for them.�

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=1244&dgn=4"]sheikh muhammed saleh munajjid[/url]

Edited by amani

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Sister Anj:
I'm a bro. :D

 

An explanation of this hadith:

 

Muhammad Zakariyya Kandhlawi explains in his book "The Differences of the Imams" that there are two possible reasons why the Prophet, sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam, stood up; the difference of opinion being in the underlying cause of him standing up, sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam:

 

1. ...

 

2. ...

 

I initially thought that the Prophet (sas) stood up out of respect for the soul also because this has always been the interpretation that I've heard of this hadith, but it seems from this explanation that it's not the case either way.

:D for the interpretations. Could you look in the source material that you have and tell us what basis are the scholars making their assumptions on? Is there another Hadith that can be cross referenced to suggest the real reason for the Prophet (saw) to stand up, apart from the reason he so mentions "is it not a living being?". I have not seen any narrations in Sahih collections that add anything to this hadith apart from this narrative - but I am open to examine any extra info you may have. :D :D

 

:D

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Peace,

 

I am reminded now of why I rarely visit these boards any more. The man who has done the most to create dialogue between Christians and Muslims, the man who opposed the Iraq war, the man who did all he could to bring peace to world dies.... and the first post by a Muslim about it talks about how he is going to hell.

 

I came to these boards initially with the hope of getting to know Muslims better. My desire was to find a mutual respect among us all and from there create some kind of bond.

 

I give up.

 

As long as the people who speak for Muslims continue to do nothing but denigrate those who do not agree with them, even those who do all they can to create relationships with Muslims, then there is no point in even attempting to have any kind of a relationship.

 

This forum does nothing but sadden and depress me every time I visit now. "Dialogue" is now a game to see who is better than who, instead of a search for common ground and respect.

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