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Follow Up To Darwins Theory Thread

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I followed the previous thread on Darwin to the link provided, the on-line text "Man and Nature" by Dr. Saleh As-Saleh. After reading the text I found I had a number of questions still unanswered. I would like to say firstly, that I have genuine questions regarding the theory and my motivation for posting here is not one of disrespect, but simply curiosity.

 

I guess I didn't find the answers I was looking for in it because it seemed to discuss the theory from the perspective of the contradictions between the theory and the Islam religion. It seemed to suggest you really have to believe in one or the other... From a non-muslims perspective this makes it difficult to weigh up Islams Creation versus Evolution because I suppose we don't have the "faith" that Muslims do, to simply say well if the theory is at odds with Islam then it must be wrong...

 

So this leads me to my question, if Muslims don't believe in evolution (or more specifically in Darwins theory of natural selection/sexual selection) how does Islam explain the different human races that exist, eg. Asian, Caucasion, Indian, African American... etc. and the different physical attributes associated with them. Surely this is widely recognised as evolution on some scale? If all humans descended from Adam and Eve, how is it that Islam explains the divesity we see in the world today?

 

So to clarify, do Muslims believe in any kind of evolution at all, and if so, if it is not based on Darwins theories, what is is based on? I guess I'm saying that I'm not here to argue whether or not we came from monkeys, obviously if you are Muslim you believe in Creation, but if anyone has any recommendations of any other writings from Islamic scolars on the history of human development from Creation to present day it would be greatly appreciated.

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Ever since man evolved into a conscious being, he had constantly wondered about his origin. In his intellectual childhood, the question was answered by biblical teachings. In the west, uptil 19th century, Christian theology formed the basis of Theory of Creationism which states:­

 

(1) that the World is of short duration, at the most 5757 years old.

(2) that the World is fixed and not changing.

(3) that the created species are constant, and do not evolve into other species.

(4) that the Perfect world is explicable only by omnipotent and beneficent creator.

(5) that the creation of man was special and apart from other created things.

 

This was the view held in the west till 1859 when the modern theory of evolution was introduced by Charles Darwin, in his work, titled OnThe Origin Of Species. There are two basic points to this theory;

 

(a) evolution is taking place on earth

(B) and it is driven by natural selection.

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How did he arrive at these two components of evolution? is interesting to know. From 1835-36, Darwin went on a voyage in southAtlantic and Pacific, which provided ample opportunity for him, to observe various species on land. He was struck by variety withineach specie at a particular geographical area. This gave him the idea of lack of fixity of species; rather species are changing into one another. Then he observed humans cross breeding various animals selectively to improve species. He understood that in environment,ontrolled by man, selection is provided my man; but who provides the selection process, in the natural environment of species?

 

In 1838, Darwin was influenced by the essay on the Principle of population, anonymously published by Malthus, in which he stated theoor’s law; Only those able to produce, deserve to survive, those who lived of rich and produced nothing, all assistance to them muststop. This gave Darwin the idea of selection of the fittest by Nature, or survival of the fittest. This evolutionary work shocked people, whoso far knew only the Creationism. Darwin was joined by Ernest Heckle and T. H. Huxley, in his atheist theory and in declared that man musthave evolved from ape like ancestor, thus putting man in the phyllogenetic tree of animal kingdom. This was the end of anthropocentrism of bible and rise of atheism in England. Prior to this Germany and France had already rejected religion. Later on Karl Marx also used Darwin’s work, to promote communism and Lenin created scientific museum on Darwinism, to completely eliminateChristianity from People’s life.

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Further work by Paleontologists, Molecular Biologists and Geneticists lead us to believe that every aspect of Phenotype is controlled byGenotype. At the cellular level the genes control every metabolic activity. The biochemical basis of the gene is Deoxyribonucleic Acid,in short DNA, which is confined in the nucleus and convey its orders through messenger RNA (Ribonucleic Acid) to the site of proteinsynthesis. Hundreds of biochemical reaction are taking place simultaneously, in the cytoplasm promoted by hundreds of enzymes in the same cytoplasm, and the beauty of the system is that one metabolic reaction does not interfere with other, all under control of DNA. There is a perfect order maintained by DNA, which is just four amino acids chain, arranged in a special sequence. Scientists pondered foryears, as to where did these four Amino Acids come from for the first time? In an attempt to answer this question, Dr. Miller in 1955 did an experiment in his lab. He took a mixture of methane, hydrogen, ammonia, steam and water, and passed the electric spark through this mixture and was able to demonstrate the formation of amino acids in the water. He postulates that in the primitive atmosphere of earth,these gases were present and when atmospheric gases were charged with thunderbolt, basic amino acids were produced in water,which by chance got arranged in sequence of DNA and 1st genetic code was born, and life started in the form of unicellular structure.

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Over billions of years, the unicellular structure changed into multi-cellular structures, plant kingdom, then animal kingdom evolved into invertebrates, vertebrates, insects, fishes, reptiles, birds, mammals and finally man. As you can see, there are some serious flaws and gaps, in this theory of evolution. First of all no body for sure knows if those gases werepresent in the atmosphere. Secondly, how could mere chance and accident, initiate such intricate, complex, sophisticated process of life, with perfect order in function and structure of the cell? Nay it can not be, in the words of Maurice Bucaille, “It tantamount to saying that the spontaneously forming steel particles from Iron ore and coal at high temperature, could have lead to the construction of Eiffel Tower, through a series of happy coincidences, that assembled the material in proper order.†Further, no body has ever demonstrated the conversion of one species into the other; and what is the proof that man is the descendant of big apes? It is purely a conjecture and theorization based on anatomical and physiological similarities between species. This is purely an attempt to humanize the animals and animalize the humans. Look at the order of evolution, first plants, why? Because every living being consumes Oxygen and releases CO2 and plants do the opposite, therefore Allah Almighty, according to His plan, first made arrangement for O2 by creating plant kingdom first.

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According to Science Mankind has undergone four transformation as listed below.

 

Australopithecus: These are the earliest ancestors who resembles today’s human beings, 1.5 meter in size, smaller than today’s average man. Cranial capacity is about 500 cubic centimeters, capable of thought and using tolls designed by himself, the quality that is not seen in apes. Time wise about 3.5 million years ago. Subsequently replaced by; Pithecanthropines: This is the second wave of hominids, estimated to have lived about 500,000 years ago, survived for about 350,000 years. Their size had grown between 1.58 cm to 1.78 meter. Cranial capacity had grown to 900 Cu. Cm. And intellectual power had grown, invention, creation, and reasoning have developed. Again replaced by; Neanderthals (Paleanthropians): is third wave of hominids appeared about 100,000 years ago and lived for 60,000 years. They were medium sized, perfectly bipedal, low forehead, rudimentary chin, cranial capacity reached 1300 cc. Lived in caves. They used to bury their dead with horns antlers and tools indicating some spirituality, replaced by;

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Homo Sapiens: is today’s man; started about 40,000 years ago. Height increased to 1.80 cms, cranial capacity reached 1350 cc, skull became more spherical, ridge above the orbits disappeared, psychic activity much superior than predecessor. These are the four stages of human evolutions, where one group of people were replaced by subsequent group with progressive increase in the size of brain and increase in the intellectual capacity. The size of the brain of man 40, 000 year ago was as large as it is today, while mankind was primitive and did not even need that sized brain. Think about, why? Robert Ornstein raises this question in his book “Evolution of consciousnessâ€Â. There is some purpose behind it, it is not created in vain. Why do we have a highly evolved visual system. Why creator gave us sophisticated hearing mechanism. Does nature have a future plan for us.

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Quran and Evolution:

 

Origin of Life:

Science tells us now that the life on earth originated from water. Even today while we are exploring the galaxies and actively searching for life on other planets, the 1st question we ask; is there any water on that planet to sustain life, because without water life is impossible.Quran has told us about this reality some 1400 years ago, before the discovery of science, said the same thing in

 

| Surah Al Anbiya verse 30

(Out of their sheer ignorance some people take natural phenomena as deities or divinities. This is despite the fact the entire continuum of the universe has been created by Allah Almighty and remains fervently in action according to His given programme. At present various phenomena in the universe appear to them as functioning separately from one another, but) Do they not seriously understand that in the initial stages of creation all of them were one mass which We then parted, so that the various celestial bodies started floating in their own orbits (21:33. 36:40). (Take for example the planet earth. In its initial stages it separated from the original mass, just like a stone thrown out from a catapult - 79:30). Later (when the earth became ready to bear or produce living things) We started life from water. (All living things are created from a mixture of water - 24:45. And over this fountain of life Allah Almighty has kept His own control - 11:7). It is strange that even after all this explanation, they do not believe that only Allah Almighty wields absolute sovereignty over everything in the universe.

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First living thing was algae in plant kingdom then animal kingdom started. Quran makes reference to plant kingdom in;

 

Surah Taha verse 53 | He is the One Who has stored means of nourishment for all of you everywhere on this spacious earth. made and traced out ways for your movements. and sends down water from the sky and with which He grows various vegetation and plants |.

 

The Ayah also points out the sexual reproduction in plant kingdom, much before science discovered it. In Surah Raad verse 3 male and female fruit plants are described. Similarly reference is made to the water origin of animals in

 

Surah Nur verse 45

| And according to His Law, Allah Almighty has created every living being out of water (in that the process of life was initiated from water and its survival also depends on it - 21:30). Among living objects there are some which crawl on their bellies, some walk on two legs and some on four. Allah Almighty creates whatever He likes according to His Law of creation. He has set measures for everything; and He has absolute control over everything |.

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Creation Of Men :

You just read Aya, that every living thing came out of water as a matter of fact 60% of human’s body is water. There are number of verses in Quran that refer to the earthly origin of man, which the Science found later. Let us go through verses.

 

| Allah Almighty caused you to grow from earth. Surah Hud verse 61

 

| We fashioned you from soil. Surah Hajj verse 5

 

| Allah Almighty is the one who fashioned you from clay. Surah Al Anam verse 2

 

| Allah Almighty the creation of man from clay. Surah As Sajdah verse 7

 

| We fashioned them from sticky clay. Surah As Saffat verse 11

 

| Allah Almighty (God) fashioned man from a clay, like pottery. Surah Ar Rahman verse 14

 

| We fashioned man from the quintessence of clay. Surah Al Muminun verse 11

 

 

Quintessence means gist or extract of some thing. All the chemical components of human body can also be found in earth as well, that is what the aya implies. So, long before the science discovered earthly origin of man, Quran said it before.

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Transformation of Man:

We have seen four waves of humans, transformed over a period of time, accepted in Science. Is there any thing in Quran about these transformations. Following verses refer to that:

 

| Ingratitude produces disorder in the land. This is illustrated by the story of Adam which has been narrated earlier (2/30-38). We created you and fashioned you and then We asked Malaika to bow before Adam, the representative of humanity. They all bowed, but Iblees did not ... |Surah Al Araf verse 11

 

| The Rabb (Who according to His law of creation) took you through various evolutionary stages one after the other; and fashioned you by removing unnecessary elements, thereby creating excellent balance, proportion and symmetry in you.Thereafter, according to His Law of Mashiyyat, He gave you a suitable form.. |Surah Al Infitar verse 7-8

 

| This tussle occurs because We have bestowed man with the ability to nourish and develop his self and lead a balanced life in a dignified manner |Surah At Tin Verse 4

 

The word taqwiym means to organize something in planned way, implying therefore an order of progress that has been strictly defined in advance. Evolutionists use exactly the same expression while describing the transformation of man in evolution. Further evidence of transformation comes from

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Surah Nuh Verse 14

| How can you attain this state of life? For this you should ponder over the Divine Law of Creation, according to which you have passed through various evolutionary stages to attain human form." In this evolutionary process each step took you forward and made you better and superior. All this happened without your effort, knowledge or discretion, but the moment you started exercising your discretion, you went astray and started slipping downwards |

 

Surah Dahr verse 28, Allah Almighty refers to men as a group, and how groups of people were replaced.

 

| (They are very proud that they are mighty and strong; but they forget that). We have created them; and We have endowed strength and stability to their countenances. If they oppose Our Laws, then according to Our Law of Mashiyyat, it is not at all difficult for Us to wholly replace them with another nation |

 

Same thing is repeated in verse Surah Al Anam verse 133, about the groups of men.

 

| If (Allah Almighty) wills He destroys you and in your place appoints whom He wills, as your successor, just as He brought your forth, from the descendants of other people.†These two ayah talk about the disappearance of certain comminutes and their replacement with others, according to the laws of Allah Almighty. Today’s human could very well be the result of these phenomena and events |.

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Have you ever wondered why so many verses are in Quran about origin of life in general and man is particular, while it is not even a book of Science? The reason for that is, the Quran had condemned the existing wrong opinion, at the time of its revelation, and then

dictates the right opinion. Bible also had the description of origin of life and man, which is not only rejected by Science but also rejected by the second Vatican council in 1960s: “Saying that there are many things in bible which are proved wrong by the Science†I will end this paper with the statement, that Quran is the word of God and creation around us, is the work of Allah Almighty (God). If the source of both is same, then there can not be any discrepancy in the two, one has to confirm the other. One is theory and other is the

practical, therefore nothing in Science is against Quran. As we have seen today science actually confirms what Quran had already said. Scientists are only discovering the laws of the creator, because everything in nature is caused, by secondary causes, regulated by

the primary cause, the creator. To serve best his creator,human beings should read and abide Allah Almighty laws and their cause and effect. It is regretable that the task that was asigned to the Muslims that is being done by non Muslims, why Muslims are not on the fore-front, while they have the guidance of Quran in their hand. Earlier Muslims made scientific discoveries, as a matter of fact they are the pioneers of today’s Science. Karen Armstrong, the author of “Holy Warâ€Â, says, “This fact has never been acknowledged in the west that all the scientific and technological development that we have today, we owe it to the Arabs and Muslimsâ€Â. Therefore let the Muslim youth today, persevere to regain the lost position, and work for the betterment of mankind, which is the greatest Ibadat (always act according to the laws of Allah Almighty with 100% believe in its authority).

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Assalamu'Alaykum

 

About darwinism and his theroies i suggjest for you to visit this website and download free moives. This particular movie is called

 

"THE DISASTERS DARWINISM BROUGHT TO HUMANITY"

 

video discription:

 

This documentary presents an aspect of the theory of evolution that has so far remained hidden. It unveils the ideological links between Darwinism and the totalitarian ideologies like fascism and communism. You will see the fruits of Darwinism in the killing fields of Hitler, Stalin or Mao.

 

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.harunyahya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/m_video_detail.php?api_id=1132"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.harunyahya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/m_video_detail.php?api_id=1132[/url]

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And to your question of man being divided into different races:

 

A dialogue with Sayyed Muhammad Hussein Fadlullah

 

The Quranic text institutionalizes a formula for coexistence of the various human committees that is based on security, tolerance and civil peace: O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

 

What are the basis of knowing one another that you inspire from the Holy Quran? And what are the principles of the culture of coexisting with the other in the same society and the ways to conduct dialogue and reaching an understanding with the external other ?

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The Ayah you referred to is the basis of the jurisprudence of knowing one another. It stresses several important points:

 

Firstly: Confirming the existing national, geographic and ethic differences, which cannot be changed, being structural and not marginal characteristics.

 

Trying to cancel such particularities in human dealings would lead to big problems on the psychological and practical levels . On the other hand giving a lot of emphasis to these particularities will also create additional problems.

 

Secondly: Islam encourages people to benefit from these particularities in their positive aspects, calling for men to interact emotionally and practically with those who share them these particularities, provided that it does not turn into an aggressive fanaticism, thus deviating from the rules Islam has ordained for human relations. The particularities will thus turn into a barrier, that separates each group from the other… The best expression of this idea is what Imam Ali bin Al-Hussein (a.s. ) said: "What is considered a sin in fanaticism is when one sees the evil people among his community better than the good of the others. It is not fanatic to love your our people, but to help them in doing wrong".

 

Thirdly: The human diversity might be expressed in the diversity of scientific and practical experience which makes each people in need of the others. And thus they will know one another on the bases of mutual needs.

 

And this , in its turn, will provide an opportunity for them to meet and become closer, and ultimately discover that there are common grounds they join between them.

 

Knowing the other represents a means to discover him to learn about what experiences and sciences he knows, as well as his conditions, projects and aspirations, thus paving the way for cooperation among them that extends to the various levels.

 

This suggests that Islam does not put a barrier that prevents people from cooperating in the areas they agree upon, although they might continue to differ in other areas.

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It has considered reaching common terms as a means of securing coexistence Say: O followers of the Book! come to an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that) some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they turn back, then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims (4:64). Islam also considered that entering into argument with the people of the Book should be in the way that is better :

 

And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."

considering this to be the only means to conduct a dialogue with the other.

 

This means of conducting dialogue is a universal one that the call of Islam adopted

 

Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knows best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.

 

This suggests that the other whom you differ with is not a man you should not try to establish a relationship with. It is part of our cultural and human responsibility to meet together on the ideas that we both agree upon while conducting a dialogue with what we disagree upon, in a experience of ascending process of knowing one another

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and btw how come i'm not able to start a new topic in the general discussions?

gives an error saying i'm not allowed to start a topic there? :s

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Sorry Kaboom, after reading your many numerous posts in this thread (several times).. I've lost track of which way your argument was going or if you addressed all the points in the original post. You are like a politician! Can you provide a shorter answer if you have the time please?

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I just wanted to say thankyou to Kaboom for taking the time to respond to my question in such detail and depth. It always amazes me how generous the people on this forum are when it comes to answering questions about Islam.

 

I must agree with TheShiningLight in that it is a lot to take in and I too will have to re-read this thread a few times before I can put all the pieces together. I have read Charles Darwins biography and portions of "Descent of Man" so I am somewhat familiar with his theory and how it developed. If anyone else has a differing perspective on this topic or anything to add please feel free to comment. It is always difficult for me to tell if an explanation like the one provided is an individuals interpretation or a widely accepted translation of direct quotes from the Quran.

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In response to the post from 3Washey I didn't find your comments particularly constructive as they didn't address my question at all. I completely disagree with the perspective you ofer and find it rather narrow minded and uninformed. To draw comparisons between Darwins theory and Hitler is a tad far fetched.

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Greetings kaboom,

 

I must tell you that Middle-Eastern scientific advancement 1500 years ago is discussed in the West's classrooms.

 

I am not a scientist, but have read regarding Darwin's theory, and most of the scientific community support it. The only scientists who do not support it are those in the hard sciences like engineering. Many theologians, and astronomers subscribe to the Big Bang theory as well, including the Vatican. Remember, the much technology started with theory, such as the Quantum Theory creating the insight into creating our cell phones. Yes, I know Einstein rejected his own theory, stating God does not play dice with the universe. Copernican theory was rejected, and Galileo was forced to deny it or face torture or death. Electricity is a theorectical construct. Each has been confirmed by scientific observation. But this is off topic.

 

What scientists mean when discussing theory is not dreamy and unreliable speculation, but an explanation that fits the evidence. They accept the theory with confience but with provisions that new data may appear.

 

Most of those who strictly follow scripture reject this theory, similar to how Compernican theory was rejected. Even papal pronouncements claim that there is room for both God and Darwin in that divine initiative may have started the ball rolling.

 

The gist of Evolutionary theory is that a small, random, heritable differences among individuals result in different chances of survival and reproduction; success for some, death without offspring for others. This natural culling leads to significant changes in shape, size, strength, armament, color, biochemistry, and behavior among the descendants. Exess population drives the competitive struggle. Less successful competitiors produce few surving offspring, and the useless or native various tend to disappear. The useful variation tend to be perpetuated and magnified. This is known as anagenesis.

 

Continued in my next post.

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Continued reply to kaboom from aspasia:

 

Now to the speciation. Genetic changes sometimes change within an isolated segment of a species, not througout the whole because the isolated populaton adapts to its local condition. Eventually, this species becomes irreversibly distinct, so different that there can be no interbreeding.

 

This study is broken into four categories: biogeography, paleontology, embryology, and morphology.

 

Biogeography studies the geographic studies which species inhabit which part of the planet and why. Paleontology investigates extinct life-forms through the fossil record. Embryology examines the stages of develoopment that embryos pass through before birth or hatching and how immature forms of animals that metamorphose such as the larva of insects. Morphology is the science of anatomical shape and design.

 

Darwin simply asked questions like why do male mammals have nipples? Why do some snakes carry rudiments of tiny legs? Why do certain species of flightless beetles have wings that never open?

 

To the above I must add, why are some humans born with small gills near their ears?

 

Remember, that many ethnic groups have many religious rituals that suit their environment. For example, alcohol dehydrates and Islam was created in a desert country. Hence it is a common sense rule for survival.

 

Also, the first known humans probably originated in Africa. As they migrated out of the savannah, and food became scarce, they probably developed omnivorous habits to survive. Many claim that this caused the increase in human brain size.

 

As humans spread to various geographical areas their skin, eye and hair changed for survival. Hence, people from the hot climates have dark skin, wide nostrils and brown eyes. The darkness, or more melatonin protects them from the sun's rays. In the cold climates the people have aquiline noses probably to prevent their lungs from freezing. The lighter skin stems from the fact that instead of protection they needed to adapt to absorb the vitamin D from the sun.

 

Remember, that many Blacks who fled from the US South to the North came down with rickets from lack of vitamin D from the sun. That is, the North is much colder than the South and their dark skin prevented the vitamin from being absorbed into their bodies.

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