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Rationalist

What Would It Take?

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It's no secret that you Muslims often present the challenge of finding a single error/contradiction within The Qur'an.

 

Let's suppose, hypothetically, that someone were to present to you a contradiction in The Qur'an.

 

Naturally, you would look for a resolution.

 

However, let's suppose that you do lots of research, contact a bunch of scholars (etc), and yet fail to find a reasonable resolution.

 

- Would you then accept that The Qur'an is not perfect, and thus not the word of God? (And so, leave Islam)

 

- Or, would you assume that there does exist a resolution, but that you've just been unable to find it?

 

 

Now this is quite a predicament; because it wouldn't require very much faith to take the latter approach.

 

However, if you're going to neglect a presented contradiction (because of faith), then this claim of "perfection", which you Muslims present to be a falsifiable statement, is effectively not falsifiable.

 

That is to say that even if someone were to meet this challenge of yours with a legitimate contradiction, you would not be convinced that Islam is wrong -- whereas, you of course claim otherwise.

 

 

I realise that I haven't really asked a question, per se. More, raised an issue that I think should be addressed.

 

Any thoughts?

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PropellerAds

Peace, Rationalist.

 

You are assuming a lot :sl:

 

But IF this would happen. I would accept the Quran as a perfect word from Allah. Why? Because we can find contradictions, even if they don't exsist. Allah knows the best and He surely knows what He has said. And there are no errors in the Quran. :no:

 

I don't know whether this answered your question, but that's what I am thinking. :sl:

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In other words, when you (speaking generally here) say

 

"The day you find an error in the Qur'an, is the day that I leave Islam",

 

you are in fact lying (whether intentional or not).

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Have I said that? No. Some have, of course. I can't say what they think who said that they'll leave Islam if there would be an error. Which of course will never happen because there are no errors in Quran. But I'd never leave Islam, because I believe in Allah, Mohammad (pbuh) as His prophet, and Quran.

 

Allah knows the best. :sl:

 

But this is just my thought, I'd love to hear others thoughts, too. :sl:

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Have I said that?

 

(Nope; that's why I added "(speaking generally here)" - to mean "you Muslims, in general"). :)

 

But, whether an error could be found in the Qur'an or not is irrelevent here; we're speaking purely hypothetically.

 

Surely, if an error was found though, that would prove that the Qur'an is not divine (seeing as the Qur'an claims self-perfection)...

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Quran is the word Of God , God promised to keep quran and protect it , we love quran , we do belive in it , keep away from mentioning our holly book .

 

 

 

Thank you sis Ebtesam :sl:

 

Allah bless you and keep you away from such poisoned people ..

 

 

slalam

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If non-Muslims aren't allowed to talk to you about you holy book, and if everything you do is supposed to be in accodance with this book, how is it possible that Muslims and non-Muslims can understand each other?

 

(I would have considered that your post was another aberration from someone who fantasises about being a doctor, but as Dot closed the other thread, apparently because the Koran was being discussed by non-Muslims, it seems that this view isn't your own delusion.)

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If non-Muslims aren't allowed to talk to you about you holy book, and if everything you do is supposed to be in accodance with this book, how is it possible that Muslims and non-Muslims can understand each other?

 

(I would have considered that your post was another aberration from someone who fantasises about being a doctor, but as Dot closed the other thread, apparently because the Koran was being discussed by non-Muslims, it seems that this view isn't your own delusion.)

 

 

You show alot of disrespect towards our religion. Talk to us properly, in a civil manner

and we'll reply, with respect. Peace.

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Sorry, can you give me an example of this disrespect? Isn't it just that I don't believe that your religion is true?

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I would have considered that your post was another aberration from someone who fantasises about being a doctor

 

what ? what does has to do with anything ?!

 

you just come here to make fights and to annoy muslims , go and do your tricks somewhere else

 

 

we are happy without you ! cannot u notice that ?

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Isn't it just that I don't believe that your religion is true?

 

 

this is disrespect , are you sure that you are a female ? I think that you are male who likes to be considerd to be a male .. go and see a doc

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I've heard of a lot of so-called contradictions in the Qur'an. I've yet to see even a single one. If a person takes the time to learn the Qur'an and to study and understand its meaning, they would never encounter anything that is remotely contradictory.

 

Salam.

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this is disrespect , are you sure that you are a female ? I think that you are male who likes to be considerd to be a male .. go and see a doc

 

lets's understand each other for a better world! Islamic Western Dialogue!

It doesn't seem like there's much hope so far!

If it is disrespectful to show disbelief in another persons religion (in good faith, thats ignorance to you) then there doesn't seem to be much chance of any 'understanding' does there? You should know as a Doctor that you have to forgive people for the way they grew up. Isn't that right?

 

peace

 

kb

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lets's understand each other for a better world! Islamic Western Dialogue!

It doesn't seem like there's much hope so far!

If it is disrespectful to show disbelief in another persons religion (in good faith, thats ignorance to you) then there doesn't seem to be much chance of any 'understanding' does there? You should know as a Doctor that you have to forgive people for the way they grew up. Isn't that right?

 

peace

 

kb

 

 

I open my arms and welcome anyone who wants to have a usefull conversation without disrespecting :

 

1- Allah " God ".

2- Mohamed peace be upon him .

3-The Holly Quran .

 

we hasbeya Allah wa ne2ma al wakeel

 

moments

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I open my arms and welcome anyone who wants to have a usefull conversation without disrespecting :

 

1- Allah " God ".

2- Mohamed peace be upon him .

3-The Holly Quran .

 

we hasbeya Allah wa ne2ma al wakeel

 

moments

 

 

What is your definition of "disrespect"?

 

If I said "I don't believe in Allah, because ...", would that be "disrespectful", to you?

 

It would seem that everytime anyone raises any doubt regarding Islam, you play the hurt card and expect us to drop it. That's not how debates work, I'm afraid.

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What is your definition of "disrespect"?

 

If I said "I don't believe in Allah, because ...", would that be "disrespectful", to you?

 

It would seem that everytime anyone raises any doubt regarding Islam, you play the hurt card and expect us to drop it. That's not how debates work, I'm afraid.

 

 

We are not in a war here , we are civilized people , why u want to prove that Islam is wrong ?

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Salam Alekum

 

i wana say to non-muslims befor put many assumptions and blind judgment's words about Quran and Islam u should learn about Quran and study about Islam and Islam life

 

is it??

when u have eat food do u say it is tasty or not befor you eat???

or first u eat and then say ur opnian

 

May Allah guide u

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I'm not an expert on the Qur'an, but I have read it.

Either way, I should have every right to ask questions; just as you have every right to either answer my questions, or ignore them.

But you (mainly aimed at Moments), do not have the right to insult me for asking.

 

... why u want to prove that Islam is wrong ?

 

I don't. I want to find out what's true, by studying evidence and thinking rationally.

If such lines of inquiry suggest that Islam is wrong, then I will continue along that path until pointed in another direction.

 

Sticking with your values, and refusing to even consider the possibility that you're wrong, is in fact fundamentalism.

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there is no possibility that Islam is wrong , that 's what billion of muslims belive in ..

 

keep talking , this wont change anything and people will convert to Islam whatever happens

 

thanks Allah

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Peace :sl:

 

Have you read the Quran? Or just the translation of it and its meanings? Which one? If it's a translated one, then tell me please, who are the translators. And was it approved? Thank you :sl:

 

Peace.

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there is no possibility that Islam is wrong , that 's what billion of muslims belive in ..

 

Then you are a fundamentalist. Fortunately, there are plenty of [good] Muslims who are willing to listen to evidence, and are open to discussions -- they're the rational ones, who give Islam a good name.

 

Not only is it irrational to be 100% certain about anything, but it's dangerous. Because that's the only ingredient that seperates the extremists from the moderates.

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Peace :sl:

 

Have you read the Quran? Or just the translation of it and its meanings? Which one? If it's a translated one, then tell me please, who are the translators. And was it approved? Thank you :sl:

 

Peace.

 

Unfortunately, I don't know Arabic - so I have not read the Qur'an.

But I have read the Yusuf Ali translation (which I believe is one of the most popular).

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Then you are a fundamentalist. Fortunately, there are plenty of [good] Muslims who are willing to listen to evidence, and are open to discussions -- they're the rational ones, who give Islam a good name.

 

Not only is it irrational to be 100% certain about anything, but it's dangerous. Because that's the only ingredient that seperates the extremists from the moderates.

 

So basicaly you are calling this member a fundamentalist because he believes 100% in the God's teachings and laws? Is that it? Since the religion of Islam is God's way to guide us and the Quran is God's word for us to follow,believing in it 100% is what it means believing in God. You can say "I believe a little bit...or I believe some of it"...you either believe or you don't. And because of that we are fundamentalists? You sound a bit like CNN and FOX news.

And out of curiosity just what kind of evidence are there so called "good" muslims...willing to listen too? Evidence about what?

Evidence about what?

 

For example I personaly believe 100% that Islam is the way.Even so I don't think about killing "unbelievers" or commit any heinous act.I just live my life in peace,pay my taxes and mind my own bussines.But according to you I might as well be labeled as a fundamentalist because of my 100% convictions regarding ny religion.

That's a new one....lol....

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Peace upon those who follow the guidance

Rationalist,

Just starting this topic, with its aggressive title, suggests bad intentions. I've warned you before in private. Now this is a public warning. You cannot keep on fighting Islam in this forum. You are here to ask and learn about Islam. If you turn our offer down, its your loss. However, trying to prove us wrong means you've come to the wrong forum. You're closer to being banned, so think before starting any more of such ill-intentioned topics. Ask us any questions about Islam, not how to manage to get us out of Islam.

 

The Quran proved over time that it is more accurate than science and scientists. Read about it and you're find out that many scientific theories and findings that used to contradict what was mentioned in the Quran, 14 centuries ago, were later on found to be wrong, and new findings matched those same unchanged verses. So if you managed to find any new scientific finding in the future that seemed to contradict a Quranic verse, statistics suggests it would probably be proven wrong some time later. Our solid and unshaken confidence in the Quran will never change. And We were proven right every time.

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