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Muhammad In The Bible

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Thank you all very much for the replies.

 

This post will discuss the term, "Brethren."

 

After an exhaustive search of the Bible for the word brethren, I found no reference to brethren being used to describe descendants of Ishmael. I did though find plenty of references to brethren being used for the Isrealites.

 

Ex 2:11

And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.

 

 

Gen 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. 

 

 

Gen 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, [even] with Isaac. 

 

 

Gen 21:11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son. 

 

 

Gen 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called

 

 

Gen 21:13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he [is] thy seed. 

 

Then the bondwoman is cast out from Abrhamam's family.

 

And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave [it] unto Hagar, putting [it] on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.

 

This was because Sarah did not want Ishmael to have any inheritance rights and because he mocked Isaac. Thus Ishmael no longer was considered a brother or relative of Isaac and all of Isreal because through Isaac the seed of Isreal came.

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It is further discussed in Gal:

 

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 

 

 

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now. 

 

 

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 

 

 

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. 

 

 

Here, Paul clearly calls the children of Isaac brethren and further distances the children of Isaac from the children of Ishmael by saying "we are not children of the bondwoman."

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Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

 

 

Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

 

 

Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

 

 

Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

 

 

Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

 

 

Act 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

 

 

Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

 

 

Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

 

 

 

Someone mentioned that even Christians doubt the validity of this verse. I have never heard this. Please provide proof that even Christians doubt this verse, for it clearly shows that Jesus was the one mentioned.

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:D

 

 

I shall come to the part about that prophet later! But let us try to solve this problem about “brethrenâ€.

 

You say you don’t find anywhere in the bible that Ishmael is referred to as one of the brethren. Before I give you the references and all, let ask! Can mosses be his own brother! When u said,

 

“Ex 2:11

And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.â€

 

Now Moses was not his own brethren, Hebrew was his brethren! Similarly, when God is talking to the israelites! Then you cannot say that the israelites are the brethren of themselves! If I say that the Jews were the brethren of Moses, sure it’s true. When you say that the israelites were the brethren of the israelites, makes no sense! Ishmael, was the brother of if Isaac. Paul does not liking it would not change the fact for Allah (God). We all know that Ishmael was the brother of Isaac. Now who would come under the brethren of Isaac, off course Ishmael!

 

Ok. Let me give you some reference from the Bible which refer to the Ishmael being the “brethren†of Isaac!

 

continue...

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:D

 

Genesis 16:12 (“016:012 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.â€)

Genesis 16:12 clearly states about Ishmael and his children “he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.†Genesis 25:9 (“025:009 And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;â€) imply that Ishmael and Isaac lived together and were present at the time Abraham passed away.

It must be appropriate to point out

that “cousins†in the orient are usually called “brothers†and since Tawrat was revealed to israelites, it means it was inevitable to speak according to the idioms of their language. Ishmael has no brothers beside Isaac that makes children of Isaac and Ishmael “brethren†to each other. We find further proof of it in Genesis 25:18 (“025:018 And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria: and he died in the presence of all his brethrenâ€) this verse tells us that Ishmael died in the presence of his brethren.

 

w/salaam

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Grace and Peace be with you all,

 

As I Christian, I have only heard of the Covenant of Abraham being through the line of Isaac and not Ishmael. Ishmael didn't receive an inheritance. Our scriptures suggest that Ishmael may have been the first child of Abraham of the flesh but not the child of God's Promise. The child promised to Abraham is through Sarah. Isaac was the Child of Promise and thus was the child to inherit God's Covenant and God's favor.

 

It was this favor that would bring Prophets from the God's Chosen People to aid them and guide them eventhough they were rebellous and unruly God continued to love them. As I Christian, I recognize that our Salvation is from the Jews, through Jesus Christ by God's Grace through Faith due in part to the Jews disbelief. We inherit Salvation through our belief in Jesus Christ as the Messiah and Begotten Son of God. It is the same Conventant of faith which Abraham had for he too was justified by faith. There was no Mosiac Law or Shariah Law there was only Faith in God and in His direction to the heart of Abraham. This is also the case with Noah. It was their faith in God that served as righteousness. No Law did this.

 

Peace 4 Real

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:D

 

Genesis 16:12 (“016:012 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.â€) 

Genesis 16:12 clearly states about Ishmael and his children “he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.†Genesis 25:9 (“025:009 And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;â€) imply that Ishmael and Isaac lived together and were present at the time Abraham passed away.

It must be appropriate to point out

that “cousins†in the orient are usually called “brothers†and since Tawrat was revealed to israelites, it means it was inevitable to speak according to the idioms of their language. Ishmael has no brothers beside Isaac that makes children of Isaac and Ishmael “brethren†to each other. We find further proof of it in Genesis 25:18 (“025:018 And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria: and he died in the presence of all his brethrenâ€) this verse tells us that Ishmael died in the presence of his brethren.

 

w/salaam

 

What do you say to or call a fellow muslim male when greeting him? I believe I have heard: "Brother" Is this right?

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What do you say to or call a fellow muslim male when greeting him?  I believe I have heard:  "Brother"  Is this right?

 

Oh, and remember this verse where Paul calls his fellow Isrealites brethren:

 

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. 

 

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The Story of Al-Alaq in the Bible

 

"And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which [men] deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, [i pray thee]: and he saith, I cannot; for it [is] sealed: And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, [i pray thee]: and he saith, I am not learned. Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near [me] with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, [even] a marvelous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise [men] shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid. Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us? Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? [is] it not yet a very little while, and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field, and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest? And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness." (Isaiah 29:11-18)

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This information was from a forums at thetruereligion(contact admin if its a beneficial link):

 

Muhammad was predicted to come in the Gospel of John:

 

Just a quick note, the Arabic word "Muhammad" is an expression which means "The honorable one" or "The glorified one" or "The admirable". Prophet Muhammad was the first in the Middle East to be named "Muhammad". Below, you will see how Jesus in today's Gospel of John had called this human Prophet which he predicted his coming "The honorable one".

Jesus in the Greek Bible used the Greek word "Periklytos" which means the admirable or glorified one. He called that predicted human prophet "Periklytos". This word corresponds exactly to the Arabic word "Muhammad" which also means the "admired one" or "glorified one." In other words, "Periklytos" is "Muhammad" in Greek.

 

Let us start...

 

In the Bible we can find the following four passages wherein Jesus (peace be upon him) predicts a great event:

John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever"

 

John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me"

 

John 14:26 "But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

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continued...

 

John 16:7-14 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show [it] unto you."

 

In these four verses, the word "comforter" is translated from the word "Paraclete" ("Ho Parakletos" in Greek). Parakletos in Greek is interpreted as "an advocate", one who pleads the cause of another, one who councils or advises another from deep concern for the other's welfare (Beacon Bible commentary volume VII, p.168). In these verses we are told that once Jesus (peace be upon him) departs, a Paraclete will come. He will glorify Jesus (peace be upon him), and he will guide mankind into all truth. This "Paraclete" is identified in John 14:26 as the Holy Ghost.

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continued...

 

It must be pointed out that the original Greek manuscripts speak of a "Holy pneuma." The word pneuma {pnyoo'-mah} is the Greek root word for "spirit." There is no separate word for "Ghost" in the Greek manuscripts, of which there are claimed to be over 24,000 today. The translators of the King James Version of the Bible translate this word as "Ghost" to convey their own personal understanding of the text. However, a more accurate translation is "Holy Spirit." More faithful and recent translations of the Bible, such as the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), do indeed now translate it as "Holy Spirit." This is significant, and will be expounded upon shortly.

 

All Bibles in existence today are compiled from "ancient manuscripts," the most ancient of which being those of the fourth century C.E. Any scholar of the Bible will tell us that no two ancient manuscripts are exactly identical. All Bibles in our possession today are the result of extensive cutting and pasting from these various manuscripts with no single one being the definitive reference.

What the translators of the Bible have done when presented with such discrepancies is to do their best to choose the correct version. In other words, since they cannot know which "ancient manuscript" is the correct one, they must do a little detective work on the text in order to decide which "version" of a given verse to accept. John 14:26 is just such an example of such selection techniques.

John 14:26 is the only verse of the Bible which associates the Parakletos with the Holy Spirit. But if we were to go back to the "ancient manuscripts" themselves, we would find that they are not all in agreement that the "Parakletos" is the Holy Spirit. For instance, in the famous the Codex Syriacus, written around the fifth century C.E., and discovered in 1812 on Mount Sinai by Mrs.Agnes S. Lewis (and Mrs. Bensley), the text of 14:26 reads; "Paraclete, the Spirit"; and not "Paraclete, the Holy Spirit.".

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continued...

 

Very Important Point: A "Spirit" in the New Testament is a human Prophet. Therefore, Jesus had predicted the coming of a human Prophet (spirit) after him and not the Holy Spirit. Jesus would not have used the word "he" for the Holy Spirit. He would have used "it" instead in John 14:26 above. Read 1 John 4:1-3 below:

 

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world," (1 John 4:1-3)

(also see 1 John 4:6), or an inspired human, for example read 1 Corinthians 2:10, 2 Thessalonians 2:2, ...etc.

 

There had been many cases of deliberate modification of the Biblical text by members of the Christian clergy themselves, as well as deliberate large scale projects to "correct" the Bible, and the writings of "the early fathers," (such as the deliberate insertion of the verse of 1 John 5:7 which is now universally discarded) It is, therefore, possible that either:

 

1) The word "Holy" could have been dropped by a careless copyist., or

2) Someone could have inserted the word "Holy" to convey his personal understanding of the text.

 

Which was it? In order to arrive at the answer we must follow the same path of detective work the Biblical scholars themselves do. We must study the characteristics of the "Paraclete" and compare them to both the "Holy Spirit" and to a "Spirit." Muslims believe that Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the one intended and not the Holy Ghost. In the Christian's own "Gospel of Barnabas" Muhammad is mentioned by name here. The Trinitarian church, however, has done its utmost to obliterate all existing copies of "The Gospel of Barnabas," and to hide it from the masses or to label it a forgery (see chapter 7). For this reason, it becomes necessary to show that even the Gospels adopted by Paul's church also originally spoke of Muhammad (peace be upon him).

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Grace and Peace to all,

 

What is the point for short posting rules if people just post 5-7 posts "copy and past" from websites easily accessable over the internet?

 

Doesn't this defeat the purpose of short posting rules?

 

Peace 4 Real.

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continued...

 

1) Christian scholars see evidence of tampering, especially with the word "Spirit":

 

In the famous "Anchor Bible" we find the following quote: "The word parakletos is peculiar in the NT to the Johnannine literature. In John ii Jesus is a parakletos (not a title), serving as a heavenly intercessor with the Father ... Christian tradition has identified this figure (Paraclete) as the Holy Spirit, but scholars like Spitta, Delafosse, Windisch, Sasse, Bultmann, and Betz have doubted whether this identification is true to the original picture and have suggested that the Paraclete was once an independent salvific figure, later confused with the Holy Spirit." (The Anchor Bible, Doubleday & Company, Inc, Garden City, N.Y. 1970, Volume 29A, p. 1135)

 

We are about to see some of the evidence that goes to prove this position.

 

2) Does the Holy Spirit "speak" or "inspire":

 

Important Note: The Greek word translated as "hear" in the Biblical verses ("whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak") is the Greek word "akouo" {ak-oo'-o} meaning to perceive sounds. It has, for instance, given us the word "acoustics," the science of sounds. Similarly the verb "to speak" is the Greek verb "laleo" {lal-eh'-o} which has the general meaning "to emit sounds" and the specific meaning "to speak." This verb occurs very frequently in the Greek text of the Gospels. It designates a solemn declaration by Jesus (peace be upon him) during his preaching’s (For example Matthew 9:18). Obviously these verbs require hearing and speech organs in order to facilitate them. There is a distinct difference between someone "inspiring" something and him "speaking" something. So the Paraclete will "hear" and "speak," not "inspire."

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---------

 

I just started it out so I'll give you a link to take a look at:

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_thetruereligion(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/modules/ipboard/index.php?showtopic=776"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_thetruereligion(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/modules/ipboard...p?showtopic=776[/url]

 

Fahid

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Grace and Peace Fahid,

 

I've read this lengthly argument for the Holy Spirit being Muhammad before and I have trouble accepting it especially since we have evidence of the Holy Spirit decending upon the Disciplines of Jesus on Pentecost in Acts 2:1-11.

 

I won't post the scripture out of respect for your site but I would encourage Muslims to read the Bible as a whole in order to understand it. A lot of these arguments don't make sense unless an individual only reads them in isolation from the rest of Holy Scripture.

 

Peace 4 Real.

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An opinion is an opinion only Allah knows Best!

 

A Protestant has there opinion on scriptures, A Catholic has theres (and further down in denominations of Christianity) and non-Christians have theres.

 

We can always argue back and forth. We can't just simply say no Muslim scholar has read it throughly, the Muslim arguement is read the words of Christ (as) himself instead of others who said things about him examples are such as Christ (as) speaking of taking hold of commandments while paul says to put it on the cross... (and of course you have a different opinion regarding our arguement).

 

I recommend the works of Dr. Zakir Naik he has practically memorized many of the scriptures from Hinduism to Christianity.

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.irf(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.irf(contact admin if its a beneficial link)[/url]

 

I'm sure he would love to hear from you about your opinions.

 

Fahid

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An opinion is an opinion only Allah knows Best!

 

Grace and Peace fahid,

 

Truly God knows best.

 

A Protestant has there opinion on scriptures, A Catholic has theres (and further down in denominations of Christianity) and non-Christians have theres.

 

I think the important point to make here is that Protestants and Catholics don't typically differ a great deal on interpretation but merely with the emphasis of application of Holy Scripture.

 

We can always argue back and forth. We can't just simply say no Muslim scholar has read it throughly, the Muslim arguement is read the words of Christ (as) himself instead of others who said things about him examples are such as Christ (as) speaking of taking hold of commandments while paul says to put it on the cross... (and of course you have a different opinion regarding our arguement).

 

There is no need to get upset or defensive. I merely point out that there is a good reason Christians haven't been looking for another prophet and the answer in found in Acts 2:1-11. At Pentecost, Christ sent the Holy Spirit to dwell in those of His Church and guide them to all knowledge of Salvation. To argue that the Holy Spirit was "a man" refutes this historic event which not only happen but was recorded in Holy Scripture.

 

I'm sure he would love to hear from you about your opinions.

 

Acts 2:1-11 isn't "my opinion", it's historical fact. I encourage you to read it yourself. Truly, in every faith there is room for opinions. In Christianity the old saying goes...

 

Unity in essentials, Liberty in non-essentials, and in all things Charity.

 

I continue to think those where very wise words.

 

Peace 4 Real.

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But the Holy Spirit has already been around as you have shown me also in Acts. About Pentecost this is what I read in the NIV edition.

 

Pentecost

 

In the twentieth century Pentecost has become a source of confusion, embarrassment or division for Christians, even as it has become a curiosity, if not an object of ridicule, for non-Christians. What is repeatable--and what is unrepeatable--of that miraculous outpouring of the Spirit and speaking in tongues? Luke helps us sort through our various reactions so Pentecost can become the comfort and the challenge it was meant to be. Peter's speech speaks to the cause and significance of the event.

 

 

What I meant by opinion is interpretation (why else would there be a "source of confusion" regarding an example as pentecost).

 

Christ (as) said according to the NT:

 

"if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

 

Holy Spirit was around before and during the lifetime of Christ (as)....How can it be "the" Holy Spirit?

 

Anyway thanks for sharing.

 

Fahid

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But the Holy Spirit has already been around as you have shown me also in Acts. About Pentecost this is what I read in the NIV edition.

 

Pentecost

 

In the twentieth century Pentecost has become a source of confusion, embarrassment or division for Christians, even as it has become a curiosity, if not an object of ridicule, for non-Christians. What is repeatable--and what is unrepeatable--of that miraculous outpouring of the Spirit and speaking in tongues? Luke helps us sort through our various reactions so Pentecost can become the comfort and the challenge it was meant to be. Peter's speech speaks to the cause and significance of the event.

 

What I meant by opinion is interpretation (why else would there be a "source of confusion" regarding an example as pentecost).

 

Grace and Peace,

 

What version and page number does that come from and I will try to determine more but from the context offered I gather they the author is elluding to Christians attempting to recreate Pentecost in their own faith life compete with speaking in tongues and other examples of the more exotic gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

Pentecostal Christians are noted for these kinds of things and Evangelical and Catholic Christians typically dislike the theatrics found in Pentecostal Churches.

 

Just a note, Pentecostalism is the fastest growing expression of Christianity at present. I am not a Pentecostal Christian but I don't have any problem with their practices.

 

Unity in essentials, Liberty in non-essentials and in all things Charity.

 

Peace 4 Real.

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New International Version. Turn to Acts 2:1 and read the Commentary.

 

Fahid

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Christ (as) said according to the NT:

 

"if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

 

Holy Spirit was around before and during the lifetime of Christ (as)....How can it be "the" Holy Spirit?

 

Anyway thanks for sharing.

 

Grace and Peace,

 

Yes the Holy Spirit has been around since the beginning. Note in Genesis it was the Spirit of God which floated over the waters.

 

Every Prophet of the Lord is in possession of the Holy Spirit or the Holy Spirit is in possession of him but after our Lord Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit was send down to "all the Church". This is unpresidented! Sure every once in a while God sent the Holy Spirit upon one of the Jews to admonish and guide His people but never had the Holy Spirit desended upon a whole host of individuals, the whole Church of the Living God. The Church celebrates it's start with Pentecost. It was the beginning of the Kingdom of Heaven on earth through the guidance of individual believers never to be overthrown by Satan. Amen.

 

Peace 4 Real.

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New International Version. Turn to Acts 2:1 and read the Commentary.

 

Fahid

 

Grace and Peace Fahid,

 

I don't have one with me at the moment but I'll check it out and try and get back with you on this but I think I'm correct in my belief that the commentator is talking about "Pentecostalism" and how many groups in Christianity find this divisive. I don't but that is just me.

 

Peace 5 Real.

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Assalamu Aleikum wa Rahmatullahee wa Barakatu

 

According to the New Testament, wasn't the Holy Spirit with Jesus aleihi salam all the time throughout his life. In Qur'an it is said "To Moses We gave the Scriptures and after him We sent other apostles. We gave Jesus the son of Mary veritable signs and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit. Will you then scorn each apostle whose message does not suit your fancies, charging some with imposture and slaying others?" (Suratul-Baqarah 87)

 

The Holy Spirit was which Jesus from day one. The Holy Spirit could be either an angel, or the injeel, or Iman (indestructable faith), or Wisdom (knowledge and good judgment). It could mean that Jesus was strengthened by the Holy Spirit of Truth. The Holy Spirit could mean that "Truth".

 

The Father = The Will of God

The Son = The Word of God

The Holy Spirit = The Wisdom of God

 

Islam means to submit to the Will of God by following the Word of God and by trusting in the Wisdom of God. :D :D :D

 

Salam

Edited by muhsinmuttaqi

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