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Atheists: What Does It Take For You To Believe?

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evolution and creation in Islam are one and the same

 

What on earth does that mean?

 

Anyway, do you have any proof of a god other than th eargument from creation?

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PropellerAds

*sigh* Answers to your questions:

 

Please answer to my this simple question...

So my question is how did it come to evolve by slow, steady, infinitesimally small Darwinian improvements? Is it really possible that thousands upon thousands of lucky chance mutations happened coincidentally so that the lens and the retina, which cannot work without each other, evolved in synchrony?

 

Yes, I believe it evolved although I don't think your description of its evolution is correct.

 

So if it was not evolved then how did it come into existence at first place?

 

I believe it evolved.

 

Who created the eye in such a way that it can produce sharp images that scientist and engineers have not been able to produce till today?

 

I believe it evolved.

 

 

Question number 2 : So if you say its not God , then who might it be? Of course theory of evolution is not surviving in this case ...... Oh is it you who created it?

 

I believe it evolved.

 

I would like to ask you another question... If its not God who designed and created it full at the same time, then how did the creatures survive at first place according to theory of evolution? If it was not God who designed the cells, then who might it be? Is it you?

 

No idea, I've never stiudied it. But I do know that the vast majority of scientists do not consider that a god did it.

 

So how did the eyes of all the human beings are located in its optimum place which is the head ? Eyebrows above the eyes ears side ways, nose in the middle, and mouth underneth it ..... Answer to this simple quetion ... Is it simply by chance?

 

Do you know anything about evolution? Mutations are the "chance" element, natural selection of advantageous mutations is the "choosing element".

 

Answer my questions and then tell me who could have created the living beings in such a perfect design. Is it simply by chance, God created it, or everybody design their body themselves?

 

Evolution explains most things (including the fact that most things aren't actually perfect) and there is plenty of evidence for it. There is simply no evidence at all that a god exists. That's what this thread is supposed to be about - you're supposed to be providing EVIDENCE.

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:sl:

 

Proof of God,well

 

How does day turn into day?

How does night turn into day?

How does rain come down from the night?

 

Must take someone to control all that.

 

Thing is the Universe could not have come into existence just by magic.Everything has a creator.

Your prob gonna say who created Allah right?

 

Well He is the beginning and the end.Its hard for us to comprehend this because our mind capacity is very limited.

 

There are signs out there but the thing is you make excuses,reasons to not believe.

 

No matter what us muslims say to you guys you will always try and argue against it from your own view.

 

Why not think about it from a neutral point of view?

 

Instead of rejecting what we have to say,why not accept it and see how you feel?

 

Proof of God is the Quran aswell.The Quran is the word of Allah.Its elegance,beauty,level of depth and understanding no one could match?

 

Why cause its the word of Allah.

 

Ok if its not the word of God then surely you could match the level of writing in the Quran.

 

How comes the best writers couldn't even match it?

 

:sl:

Edited by Aaqib Ahmed

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Peace vishah,

 

Is it really possible that thousands upon thousands of lucky chance mutations happened coincidentally so that the lens and the retina, which cannot work without each other, evolved in synchrony?

 

So as not to derail this topic into a discussion of evolution I have created a new thread (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=141857"]here[/url]

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:sl:

How does day turn into day?

How does night turn into day?

How does rain come down from the night?

 

Must take someone to control all that.

 

Why? They are all explained by natural causes.

 

 

Thing is the Universe could not have come into existence just by magic.

 

LOL, if you are postulating a supernatural being, it's YOU who are postulating magic.

 

Everything has a creator.

 

Apparently not, according to science.

 

Your prob gonna say who created Allah right?

 

No, I don't believe that Allah (or any other supernatural being) exists.

 

Why not think about it from a neutral point of view?

 

Actually, I AM thinking of it from a neutral point of view. I am prepared to consider any EVIDENCE (not opinion) you might have, and if it is compelling I will accept it.

 

Proof of God is the Quran aswell.The Quran is the word of Allah.Its elegance,beauty,level of depth and understanding no one could match?

 

Why cause its the word of Allah.

 

Ok if its not the word of God then surely you could match the level of writing in the Quran.

 

How comes the best writers couldn't even match it?

 

Can you suggest how we would set up an experiment to test this claim?

 

The proof is really clear.But we can't make a blind person see,or a deaf person hear can we now?

 

Actually, you haven't offered any proof at all.

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if you dont believe any supernatural being exist and the name Allah means AL (THE) LAH(GOD) THE GOD. if you dont believe that then how do you explain calling yourself a christian??? are you a hypocrite?? im not being funny please explain.

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if you dont believe any supernatural being exist and the name Allah means AL (THE) LAH(GOD) THE GOD. if you dont believe that then how do you explain calling yourself a christian??? are you a hypocrite?? im not being funny please explain.

 

Read my sig. I'm culturally a Christian and an agnostic (some atheists might want to call me a soft athiest). Secular christianity isn't all that uncommon.

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Yes, I believe it evolved although I don't think your description of its evolution is correct.

What every the description it will be, it should still has to deal with the cells, and even 1 single cell is not able to evolve it self. Not to speak of cells, but not even a single DNA could evolve.

 

I believe it evolved.

See its simply your belief

I believe it evolved.

See its simply your belief

I believe it evolved.

See its simply your belief

No idea, I've never stiudied it. But I do know that the vast majority of scientists do not consider that a god did it.

You cannot answer to this question... and the evolutionist even cannot.

 

Do you know anything about evolution? Mutations are the "chance" element, natural selection of advantageous mutations is the "choosing element".

I would like to ask you back the same question. I know about mutations, and evolutionists has been testing to see if their theory is correct.

 

Can you give me 1 example of a gentic mutation. Even a great evolutionist who talkes about mutation was unable to answer this question, so if you could answer then I think you need to take over his place..

 

So you talk about mutations right... See the results of it... Its so harmful to life..

######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_hyahya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/images_books/images_incompatible/Cernobil2.jpg[/img]

######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_hyahya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/images_books/images_incompatible/cernobil1.jpg[/img]

 

######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_hyahya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/images_books/images_inco...le/cernobil.jpg[/img]

 

Chance mutations are always harmful to humans and all other living things. The horrifying results of the 1986 nuclear accident at Chernobyl show the effect of mutations.

 

Evolution explains most things (including the fact that most things aren't actually perfect) and there is plenty of evidence for it. There is simply no evidence at all that a god exists. That's what this thread is supposed to be about - you're supposed to be providing EVIDENCE.

 

Thats what evolutionist say simply. Their hope is left on artists who can draw well and story tellers and writers who can influence the people... The reason why I chose evolution vs creationism is to show you the proof that God has created it... But since you are simply ignoring on what I say, ( what evolutionists do when it goes to a certain extent) then I am sure this wont help in this matter .....

 

I would like to end, disusing about the evolution since it it wont be fruitful, with these quotes from scientists, and as a response to those who said "scientist and evolution"... Beware to whom you call as a scientists. As soon as one get an MBBS doesnt make one .... Please do not reply to this post as this is the end of talking about evolution in this topic as you dont have interest in this..

 

"Nine-tenths of the talk of evolutionists is sheer nonsense, not founded on observation and wholly unsupported by facts. This museum is full of proofs of the utter falsity of their views. In all this great museum, there is not a particle of evidence of the transmutation of species." (Dr. Etheridge, Paleontologist of the British Museum)

 

"I reject evolution because I deem it obsolete; because the knowledge, hard won since 1830, of anatomy, histology, cytology, and embryology, cannot be made to accord with its basic idea. The foundationless, fantastic edifice of the evolution doctrine would long ago have met with its long- deserved fate were it not that the love of fairy tales is so deep-rooted in the hearts of man." (Dr. Albert Fleischmann, University of Erlangen)

 

"By the late 1970s, debates on university campuses throughout the free world were being held on the subject of origins with increasing frequency. Hundreds of scientists, who once accepted the theory of evolution as fact, were abandoning ship and claiming that the scientific evidence was in total support of the theory of creation. Well-known evolutionists, such as Isaac Asimov and Stephen Jay Gould, were stating that, since the creationist scientists had won all of the more than one hundred debates, the evolutionists should not debate them." (Luther Sunderland, "Darwin's Enigma", p.10)

 

"The more one studies paleontology, the more certain one becomes that evolution is based on faith alone; exactly the same sort of faith which is necessary to have when one encounters the great mysteries of religion... The only alternative is the doctrine of special creation, which may be true, but is irrational." (Dr. L.T. More)

 

"I have come to the conclusion that Darwinism is not a testable scientific theory, but a metaphysical research programme... (Dr. Karl Popper, German-born philosopher of science, called by Nobel Prize-winner Peter Medawar, "incomparably the greatest philosopher of science who has ever lived.")

 

"What is so frustrating for our present purpose is that it seems almost impossible to give any numerical value to the probability of what seems a rather unlikely sequence of events... An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle... (Dr. Francis Crick, Nobel Prize-winner, codiscoverer of DNA)

 

"Once we see, however, that the probability of life originating at random is so utterly minuscule as to make it absurd, it becomes sensible to think that the favorable properties of physics, on which life depends, are in every respect DELIBERATE... It is therefore, almost inevitable that our own measure of intelligence must reflect higher intelligences.. even to the limit of God." (Sir Fred Hoyle, British mathematician and astronomer, and Chandra Wickramasinghe, co-authors of "Evolution from Space," after acknowledging that they had been atheists all their lives)

 

"The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way is comparable with the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein... I am at a loss to understand biologists' widespread compulsion to deny what seems to me to be obvious." (Sir Fred Hoyle)

 

:sl:

 

salam

 

best Wishes ...

 

vishah

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Yes, I believe it evolved although I don't think your description of its evolution is correct.

What ever the description it will be, it should still has to deal with the cells, and even 1 single cell is not able to evolve it self. Not to speak of cells, but not even a single DNA could evolve.

 

I believe it evolved.

See its simply your belief

I believe it evolved.

See its simply your belief

I believe it evolved.

See its simply your belief

No idea, I've never stiudied it. But I do know that the vast majority of scientists do not consider that a god did it.

You cannot answer to this question... and the evolutionist even cannot.

 

Do you know anything about evolution? Mutations are the "chance" element, natural selection of advantageous mutations is the "choosing element".

I would like to ask you back the same question. I know about mutations, and evolutionists has been testing to see if their theory is correct.

 

Can you give me 1 example of a gentic mutation. Even a great evolutionist who talkes about mutation was unable to answer this question, so if you could answer then I think you need to take over his place..

 

So you talk about mutations right... See the results of it... Its so harmful to life..

######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_hyahya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/images_books/images_incompatible/Cernobil2.jpg[/img]

######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_hyahya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/images_books/images_incompatible/cernobil1.jpg[/img]

######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_hyahya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/images_books/images_incompatible/cernobil.jpg[/img]

 

Chance mutations are always harmful to humans and all other living things. The horrifying results of the 1986 nuclear accident at Chernobyl show the effect of mutations.

 

Evolution explains most things (including the fact that most things aren't actually perfect) and there is plenty of evidence for it. There is simply no evidence at all that a god exists. That's what this thread is supposed to be about - you're supposed to be providing EVIDENCE.

 

Thats what evolutionist say simply. Their hope is left on artists who can draw well and story tellers and writers who can influence the people... The reason why I chose evolution vs creationism is to show you the proof that God has created it... But since you are simply ignoring on what I say, ( what evolutionists do when it goes to a certain extent) then I am sure this wont help in this matter .....

 

I would like to end, disusing about the evolution since it it wont be fruitful, with these quotes from scientists, and as a response to those who said "scientist and evolution"... Beware to whom you call as a scientists. As soon as one get an MBBS doesnt make one .... Please do not reply to this post as this is the end of talking about evolution in this topic as you dont have interest in this..

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

"Nine-tenths of the talk of evolutionists is sheer nonsense, not founded on observation and wholly unsupported by facts. This museum is full of proofs of the utter falsity of their views. In all this great museum, there is not a particle of evidence of the transmutation of species." (Dr. Etheridge, Paleontologist of the British Museum)

 

"I reject evolution because I deem it obsolete; because the knowledge, hard won since 1830, of anatomy, histology, cytology, and embryology, cannot be made to accord with its basic idea. The foundationless, fantastic edifice of the evolution doctrine would long ago have met with its long- deserved fate were it not that the love of fairy tales is so deep-rooted in the hearts of man." (Dr. Albert Fleischmann, University of Erlangen)

 

"By the late 1970s, debates on university campuses throughout the free world were being held on the subject of origins with increasing frequency. Hundreds of scientists, who once accepted the theory of evolution as fact, were abandoning ship and claiming that the scientific evidence was in total support of the theory of creation. Well-known evolutionists, such as Isaac Asimov and Stephen Jay Gould, were stating that, since the creationist scientists had won all of the more than one hundred debates, the evolutionists should not debate them." (Luther Sunderland, "Darwin's Enigma", p.10)

 

"The more one studies paleontology, the more certain one becomes that evolution is based on faith alone; exactly the same sort of faith which is necessary to have when one encounters the great mysteries of religion... The only alternative is the doctrine of special creation, which may be true, but is irrational." (Dr. L.T. More)

 

"I have come to the conclusion that Darwinism is not a testable scientific theory, but a metaphysical research programme... (Dr. Karl Popper, German-born philosopher of science, called by Nobel Prize-winner Peter Medawar, "incomparably the greatest philosopher of science who has ever lived.")

 

"What is so frustrating for our present purpose is that it seems almost impossible to give any numerical value to the probability of what seems a rather unlikely sequence of events... An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle... (Dr. Francis Crick, Nobel Prize-winner, codiscoverer of DNA)

 

"Once we see, however, that the probability of life originating at random is so utterly minuscule as to make it absurd, it becomes sensible to think that the favorable properties of physics, on which life depends, are in every respect DELIBERATE... It is therefore, almost inevitable that our own measure of intelligence must reflect higher intelligences.. even to the limit of God." (Sir Fred Hoyle, British mathematician and astronomer, and Chandra Wickramasinghe, co-authors of "Evolution from Space," after acknowledging that they had been atheists all their lives)

 

"The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way is comparable with the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein... I am at a loss to understand biologists' widespread compulsion to deny what seems to me to be obvious." (Sir Fred Hoyle)

 

:sl:

 

salam

 

best Wishes ...

 

vishah

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What every the description it will be, it should still has to deal with the cells, and even 1 single cell is not able to evolve it self. Not to speak of cells, but not even a single DNA could evolve.

 

I don't know enough about the subject to argue this (and neither do you, I assume) - I am willing to trust that scientists have considered this and still accept evolution as the best explanation. I am certain that if you look it up on Wiki you will find an explanation.

 

 

You cannot answer to this question... and the evolutionist even cannot.

I would like to ask you back the same question. I know about mutations, and evolutionists has been testing to see if their theory is correct.

 

Can you give me 1 example of a gentic mutation. Even a great evolutionist who talkes about mutation was unable to answer this question, so if you could answer then I think you need to take over his place..

 

I don't understand your question. Are you saying that genetic mutations never happen? If so, what is the point of the pics you have posted?

 

So you talk about mutations right... See the results of it... Its so harmful to life..

 

Yes, some mutations decrease the chances of an organism breeding successfully, some don't, and some enhance it. It's random.

 

Thats what evolutionist say simply. Their hope is left on artists who can draw well and story tellers and writers who can influence the people... The reason why I chose evolution vs creationism is to show you the proof that God has created it... But since you are simply ignoring on what I say, ( what evolutionists do when it goes to a certain extent) then I am sure this wont help in this matter .....

 

No, I said at the very beginning that I do not want to debate evolution with you. Neither of us knows enough about biology to debate the actual current issues in evolution, and I have no reason whatsoever to doubt the scientific method (surely you don't, either) nor its honest application by the overwhelming number of scientists who accept that evolution answers questions about life better than any other hypothesis.

 

You have already been shown that a quote you got from a creationist site was dishonestly misleading - have you actually checked these other quotes? If not, I'd be silly to take them seriously, wouldn't I?

 

Also, even if the quotes are genuine, you have about 10. How many scientists are there in the world who accept evolution? It must be in the millions.

 

edit - OK, I've done your work for you. Again! It took me under 5 seconds on google. PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU CHECK THINGS BEFORE STATING THEM AS FACTS! I'm simply not going to believe any further quotes you post unless you confirm that you have checked them.

 

The widely touted “Dr. Etheridge, of the British Museum,” who always appeared in creationist literature without a given name, was quoted by Townsend as saying, “In all this great museum there is not a particle of evidence transmutation of species. Nine-tenths of the talk of evolution is sheer nonsense, not founded on observation and wholly unsupported by fact. This museum is full of proofs of the utter falsity of their views.” The content of Etheridge’s statement varied from work to work, and its source remained unidentified, except for Alexander Patterson’s comment that Etheridge was answering a question put to him by a Dr. George E. Post. When curious parties in the 1920s inquired about the identity of Etheridge, the director of the British Museum surmised that the man in question was “Robert Etheridge, Junr., who was Assistant Keeper of Geology in this Museum from 1881 to 1891,” at which time he left for Australia, where he died in 1920. The director hastened to add that “Mr. Etheridge’s opinion on this subject should not be considered as in any way representing scientific opinion in this Museum.”

 

The Creationists - the Evolution of Scientific Creationism by Ronald L. Numbers, available from Amazon(contact admin if its a beneficial link)

Edited by fallow

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If you love mutations then you can watch this video.....

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetdailymotion(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/video/x2uovk_imaginary-mechanisms-of-evolution-2_news"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetdailymotion(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/video/x2uovk_im...volution-2_news[/url]

 

Even I dont have gurentee in what you have quoted, and the same way I cant believe in ur quotes unless you check them .......

Evolutionists create dramas infront of eyes....

 

Well, though I posted 10 quotes in the reply doesnt mean i dont have more than that.....

and the number of scientists who support creation are increasing....

 

Why dont you read my posts first of all.....What did I say about the discussion of evolution in this topic? I know it wont be fruitful any more ..... When I have stopped, now you are trying to pull it again.... You simply love arguments ....

 

 

Kindly read what people write before posting....

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( I am not touching evolution here... :sl: )

 

Dear fellow

Ok ..... What do you say about the expansion of universe?

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If you love mutations then you can watch this video.....

 

Sorry, my connection is to slow for YouTube. I don't "love" mutations - I know that mutation can sometimes be beneficial to an organism. Sometimes it isn't and sometimes it's neutral.

 

Even I dont have gurentee in what you have quoted, and the same way I cant believe in ur quotes unless you check them .......

 

No, you don't, but I have given you a reference that you could check. You have now posted two dishonestly misleading quotes - they were the only two I checked. The others could be equally dishonest. Doesn't that teach you something about the sites you get them from?

 

Why dont you read my posts first of all.....What did I say about the discussion of evolution in this topic? I know it wont be fruitful any more ..... When I have stopped, now you are trying to pull it again.... You simply love arguments ....

Kindly read what people write before posting....

 

No idea what you are talking about.

 

Dear fellow

Ok ..... What do you say about the expansion of universe?

 

As far as I know an expanding universe is still the accepted model. I could be wrong - I'm not an astrophysicist.

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Sorry, my connection is to slow for YouTube.

Hey its not youtube....

 

Doesn't that teach you something about the sites you get them from?

Do you know from where I got those quotes? ... I got them from a christian website......

 

No idea what you are talking about.

ok, then leave it....

 

 

As far as I know an expanding universe is still the accepted model. I could be wrong - I'm not an astrophysicist.

okey, thx .... one more Question, before going further ...

 

How did the universe come in to existence .... Whats ur opinion about big bang ...

 

see you tommorow :sl:

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Do you know from where I got those quotes? ... I got them from a christian website......

 

So? Bush is a Christian, Blair is a Christian - do you believe them? And the Christians who reject evolution tend to be fundamentalists (that is, backwards), anyway.

 

How did the universe come in to existence .... Whats ur opinion about big bang ...

 

I don't know how the universe came into existence - it might not have, it might have always existed in one form or another. I don't think anyone claims to know (I mean any scientist), do they? As with the expanding universe (to wich it's related, surely?) all I know aoiut the big bang is that it's currently the best model there is for the very early universe, I think.

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Proof of God,well

 

How does day turn into day?

How does night turn into day?

How does rain come down from the night?

Have you had your head in the blanket whilst modern science has been making discoveries? All of the above is entirely explainable by natural law.

 

Must take someone to control all that.

Well, it doesn't.

 

Thing is the Universe could not have come into existence just by magic.

It did according to your belief. You posit a supernatural explanation in the form of Allah. You assert that Allah arbitrarily designed the universe and everything in it.

 

Everything has a creator.

False. Not everything has a creator.

 

Your prob gonna say who created Allah right?

Well, yes. If you contend that asserting that something like the universe, something so vast, so complex and intricate in detail is too improbable to come from mere chance or 'magic' then equally, the same can be applied to Allah. Allah under Islam is even more complex and if you reject the idea that Allah was created, then you reject your own assertions that 'Everything has a creator' and you reduce existence to arbitrariness.

 

Well He is the beginning and the end.Its hard for us to comprehend this because our mind capacity is very limited.

So essentially, you are asserting he is eternal. If you can believe Allah is eternal, then why not the universe?

 

There are signs out there but the thing is you make excuses,reasons to not believe.

Sorry? What signs precisely?

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No matter what us muslims say to you guys you will always try and argue against it from your own view.

So if you've decided what our own disposition is, then why are you even here discussing this? You've already decided that we are close-minded.

 

Instead of rejecting what we have to say,why not accept it and see how you feel?

This is just emotional special pleading. You seem to ignore the fact that it is evidence and logic we want to be convinced or see a basis in your beliefs. I might just as well be a Christian as say the exact same in return. I doubt in the slightest that you would be convinced.

 

Proof of God is the Quran aswell.The Quran is the word of Allah.Its elegance,beauty,level of depth and understanding no one could match?

 

Why cause its the word of Allah.

This is a circular argument and consequentally a logical fallacy. You say that the Quran is the word of Allah because it is the word of Allah. This makes no logical sense. You have yet to establish that the Quran is the word of Allah, let alone conclude.

 

Ok if its not the word of God then surely you could match the level of writing in the Quran.

 

How comes the best writers couldn't even match it?

Literature is read through subjective interpretation. There is no objective analysis for 'matching' any literature.

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Can you give me 1 example of a gentic mutation. Even a great evolutionist who talkes about mutation was unable to answer this question, so if you could answer then I think you need to take over his place..

 

So you talk about mutations right... See the results of it... Its so harmful to life..

Not all mutations are harmful to life. I think you need to go back to the drawing board.

 

And stop using Adnan Oktar as source for your scientific knowledge, he is a university dropout who plagiarises his work from Christian Creationists.

 

Chance mutations are always harmful to humans and all other living things. The horrifying results of the 1986 nuclear accident at Chernobyl show the effect of mutations.

That's nice. Although that is the fault of radiation poisoning, not natural selection.

 

Thats what evolutionist say simply. Their hope is left on artists who can draw well and story tellers and writers who can influence the people... The reason why I chose evolution vs creationism is to show you the proof that God has created it...

What 'proof'? In scientific circles, there is simply no such thing as proof. In scientific circles, there is no application, understanding nor hypothesis that Creationism or 'Intelligent design' generates or even has. Creationisms entire purpose it appears to criticise Evolution. It does absolutely nothing to provide evidence for its own claims.

 

But since you are simply ignoring on what I say, ( what evolutionists do when it goes to a certain extent) then I am sure this wont help in this matter .....

Oh do drop the demeaning attitude. You do not know what evolutionists think and do so stop presuming you do.

 

"Nine-tenths of the talk of evolutionists is sheer nonsense, not founded on observation and wholly unsupported by facts. This museum is full of proofs of the utter falsity of their views. In all this great museum, there is not a particle of evidence of the transmutation of species." (Dr. Etheridge, Paleontologist of the British Museum)

So? I can't find any record of this actual quote funnily enough, outside Creationist circles.

 

"I reject evolution because I deem it obsolete; because the knowledge, hard won since 1830, of anatomy, histology, cytology, and embryology, cannot be made to accord with its basic idea. The foundationless, fantastic edifice of the evolution doctrine would long ago have met with its long- deserved fate were it not that the love of fairy tales is so deep-rooted in the hearts of man." (Dr. Albert Fleischmann, University of Erlangen)

Same above.

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How did the universe come in to existence .... Whats ur opinion about big bang ...

The universe is eternal.

 

1. The Universe observably exists.

2. Ex nihilo, nihil fit (Something cannot come from nothing. Nothing by definition simply does not

exist and has no property of establishing something that does. A Non-Existence Y cannot achieve a coherent way of ending up to an existent Z)

3. Everything therefore must have its own cause. This includes the Earth, the Solar System and ultimately the Universe.

4. This logically leads to an infinite regression as to assert an uncaused cause negates principle (2) and principle (3).

5. Therefore, existence is eternal.

6. The only 'existence' we know is the Universe around us as demonstrated in (1). It is entirely observable and we constantly interact with it.

7. The evidence for a God regarding existence is simply non-existent. There is no empirical evidence to suggest that a God, of whatever understanding exists.

8. Considering (2) and (5), something must be eternal.

9. The assertion that the Universe is the eternal existence has infinitely more evidence in its favour than assuming that a God is the source of eternal existence because as (1) and (6) demonstrate, the universe is directly observable. There is no evidence for any God.

10. Therefore it is logically defunct to assume the existence of a God.

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The universe is eternal.

 

1. The Universe observably exists.

2. Ex nihilo, nihil fit (Something cannot come from nothing. Nothing by definition simply does not

exist and has no property of establishing something that does. A Non-Existence Y cannot achieve a coherent way of ending up to an existent Z)

3. Everything therefore must have its own cause. This includes the Earth, the Solar System and ultimately the Universe.

4. This logically leads to an infinite regression as to assert an uncaused cause negates principle (2) and principle (3).

5. Therefore, existence is eternal.

6. The only 'existence' we know is the Universe around us as demonstrated in (1). It is entirely observable and we constantly interact with it.

7. The evidence for a God regarding existence is simply non-existent. There is no empirical evidence to suggest that a God, of whatever understanding exists.

8. Considering (2) and (5), something must be eternal.

9. The assertion that the Universe is the eternal existence has infinitely more evidence in its favour than assuming that a God is the source of eternal existence because as (1) and (6) demonstrate, the universe is directly observable. There is no evidence for any God.

10. Therefore it is logically defunct to assume the existence of a God.

 

how do you arrive at the saying that the universe is eternal???

 

science tells us everything has a begining even the earth. The sun which they say will have an end someday and the earth will have an end why even our own solar system will have an end someday. so if this is taking place in our universe its telling us that one day the universe will have an end this is science. SO the universe is not eternal it has a end which means it had a beginning. Let your sights go out into space tell me do you see an end where is the end in space??

 

The word universe means UNI (ONE) VERSE is their a dual verse?? you cant even explain to me what a fith dimentional shape looks like how can you tell me that the universe is eternal when we havent even traveled to see if that statement is true. We can only see a few light years away but we have yet to go where no man has gone before(star trek music) your your theisis is utter rubbish!!

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He has just logically proven that the universe is eternal. Read it again. You might dispute it, but you have to dispute it in terms of his argument.

 

And saying 'the solar system will end' is completely irrelevant to the argument of whether or not the universe is eternal.

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The universe is eternal.

 

1. The Universe observably exists.

2. Ex nihilo, nihil fit (Something cannot come from nothing. Nothing by definition simply does not

exist and has no property of establishing something that does. A Non-Existence Y cannot achieve a coherent way of ending up to an existent Z)

3. Everything therefore must have its own cause. This includes the Earth, the Solar System and ultimately the Universe.

4. This logically leads to an infinite regression as to assert an uncaused cause negates principle (2) and principle (3).

5. Therefore, existence is eternal.

6. The only 'existence' we know is the Universe around us as demonstrated in (1). It is entirely observable and we constantly interact with it.

7. The evidence for a God regarding existence is simply non-existent. There is no empirical evidence to suggest that a God, of whatever understanding exists.

8. Considering (2) and (5), something must be eternal.

9. The assertion that the Universe is the eternal existence has infinitely more evidence in its favour than assuming that a God is the source of eternal existence because as (1) and (6) demonstrate, the universe is directly observable. There is no evidence for any God.

10. Therefore it is logically defunct to assume the existence of a God.

the only sound part is 2 and 8 as for the rest,

-3 and 4 do not follow logically from 1 and 2 furthermore they contradict 2.

-6 does not follow from 1

-7 is refuted by the problem of induction

-8 contradicts 4

-9 is refuted by the problem of induction

-10 does not follow

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science tells us everything has a begining even the earth. The sun which they say will have an end someday and the earth will have an end why even our own solar system will have an end someday. so if this is taking place in our universe its telling us that one day the universe will have an end this is science. SO the universe is not eternal it has a end which means it had a beginning. Let your sights go out into space tell me do you see an end where is the end in space??

Things in our universe are eternal, but this does not necessitate that the universe itself is eternal. The universe is just 'everything that exists' and by saying it is eternal, I am saying existence is eternal. And that logically follows.

 

And no science does not predict the end of the causal chain.

 

-3 and 4 do not follow logically from 1 and 2 furthermore they contradict 2.

Explain how? 3 reinforces point 2 by concluding that if nothing is arbitrary and in the causal chain (as per 2), then everything must by consequence have a cause. If everything has a cause then there can be no beginning nor end to the causal chain. To assert any break in the causal chain for anything would be to defy the logic presented in 2.

 

-6 does not follow from 1

Of course, the argument assumes the universe is agreed to exist. Do you dispute this?

 

-7 is refuted by the problem of induction

 

-9 is refuted by the problem of induction

Explain.

 

-8 contradicts 4

How, precisely? They affirm each other. They may be assertions at worse.

 

-10 does not follow

How come?

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Things in our universe are eternal, but this does not necessitate that the universe itself is eternal. The universe is just 'everything that exists' and by saying it is eternal, I am saying existence is eternal. And that logically follows.

 

 

what existence? what things and how do you arrive at that conclusion? where is the end of space? space had to come from somewhere the universe had to come from somewhere it all had a begining. everything in our life shows that everything has a begining if we can see it it has a begining.

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Why can't the universe have existed forever? The analogy isn't that humans appear and disappear, it's that matter and energy, humans) are constantly being shaped and reshaped, apparently endlessly.

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