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Atheists: What Does It Take For You To Believe?

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Allah reveals Himself through his creation.

Yet you have (and so have other theists) failed to demonstrate that anything is Allah's creation. You just presume that everything on earth is indicative of Allah's craftsmanship, when in fact it is not in the slightest. You have to presume Allah for that argument to make any sense.

 

Where did your knowlede come from?

Through my experience with natural phenomena and education.

 

Everybody has been taught their knowledge from somewhere.

Yes.

 

By studing the earth we arrive at our knowledge. We say that the beginning of knowledge starts with Allah who made the earth and evolved it.

No, that's what you say. It is not what most of the world says.

 

What im saying to you is that your own knowledge of being an athiest is out of the womb of a thiest.

False. It has nothing to do with it. If there was no such importance placed on Theism, then I would still be an Atheist in the exact same way that I am an Atheist to Thor, Odin, The Celestial Teapot and all sorts of things that can be claimed to exist. A concept simply existing does not mean that everyone's disbelief in it is based on belief in it.

 

Im not saying that you where a thiest no,but in order for you to reject Allah you had to have some knowledge of Allah.

I never rejected Allah. I disbelieve in a God/s. I do not specifically refer to Allah when citing my Atheism.

 

Sorry for interrupting. But I am wondering if the atheists believe that aliens exist?

Some do. Some don't.

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Atheists, if a firm believer is going to pray, what do you prefer, he prays that you roast in hell, or he prays that you'll have a reason to believe in God?

 

Wassalam,

Y

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Atheists, if a firm believer is going to pray, what do you prefer, he prays that you roast in hell, or he prays that you'll have a reason to believe in God?

 

Wassalam,

Y

I would rather a theist pray that I have a reason to believe in God.

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Ok, I'll pray for you. If you are sincere enough, it may work someday. For the time being, I'll give you this URL. Perhaps it may give you some inspiration ... (And don't forget me to pray for me the first day you take the sahadah : )

 

[iframe]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetwelcome-back(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/profile/jeffrey_lang.shtml[i'm not allowed to use this tag yet]

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Yet you have (and so have other theists) failed to demonstrate that anything is Allah's creation. You just presume that everything on earth is indicative of Allah's craftsmanship, when in fact it is not in the slightest. You have to presume Allah for that argument to make any sense.

BUT isnot science based on theroy? and isnot science studing the earth. We believe that Allah made the earth. Well you are right we never saw Allah make the earth and i can see how you can reject the idea of Allah. However the questian still exist where did the earth come from? The earth is an intellegent design, if we study the earth we get many many things just from studing it. We as humans get all of our knowledge from the earth and the heavens(space) nowhere else. By studing the earth we as humans become super intellegent, devloping skills and knowledge on all levels. The earth is like reading an instruction manual or a good intellectual book those who study it get great benifit from it those who dont rely on those who do. Then comes the question of who wrote this book or manual, who designed this, then we look at end of that book and see the authours name. Its the same with the earth something intellegent had to have designed it for others to study from it. Muhammad and other great prophets saw this and with their good nature was blessed to recieve revelation on a high to find out who or what made all of this.

 

False. It has nothing to do with it. If there was no such importance placed on Theism, then I would still be an Atheist in the exact same way that I am an Atheist to Thor, Odin, The Celestial Teapot and all sorts of things that can be claimed to exist. A concept simply existing does not mean that everyone's disbelief in it is based on belief in it.

 

atheism is the disbelef in God or gods yes now what is confusing is that you now say that you are athiest all sorts of things that can be claimed to exist. I claim that i exist your parents claim that they exist you claim that you yourself exist on this site you exist as Skavau. Do you deny your own exisistence???

Well on your last comment with out good their is no bad without darkness their always be light so without GOD there is no athiest, and without GOD ther is no thiest, But with Allah there are belivers and non belivers

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BUT isnot science based on theroy? and isnot science studing the earth.

Science is indeed about studying the earth. It is more broadly about trying to understand our surroundings and experience with natural phenomena through observation and experimentation.

 

We believe that Allah made the earth. Well you are right we never saw Allah make the earth and i can see how you can reject the idea of Allah.

Okay.

 

However the questian still exist where did the earth come from?

The earth formed as part of the birth of the Solar System. (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/History_of_Earth#Origin"]Here.[/url]

 

The earth is an intellegent design, if we study the earth we get many many things just from studing it. We as humans get all of our knowledge from the earth and the heavens(space) nowhere else.

How do you know earth is that of an intelligent designer?

 

By studing the earth we as humans become super intellegent, devloping skills and knowledge on all levels. The earth is like reading an instruction manual or a good intellectual book those who study it get great benifit from it those who dont rely on those who do.

Yes. So?

 

Then comes the question of who wrote this book or manual, who designed this, then we look at end of that book and see the authours name. Its the same with the earth something intellegent had to have designed it for others to study from it.

A book is not a planet. Your analogy is invalid.

 

atheism is the disbelef in God or gods yes now what is confusing is that you now say that you are athiest all sorts of things that can be claimed to exist.

I am an Atheist to things that are claimed to exist but actually have no evidence in their favour. God, Thor, Odin, Zeus and the Celestial Teapot all have one thing in common - they have exactly the same amount of empirical evidence, which is none.

 

I claim that i exist your parents claim that they exist you claim that you yourself exist on this site you exist as Skavau. Do you deny your own exisistence???

I have reason and evidence to believe you, my parents and I exist. This is not the same with God.

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:sl:

 

Hopefully this should open your eyes a bit!

 

The Great Challenge to Produce

One Chapter Like the Chapters

of the Holy Quran

 

God has said in the Quran:

 

 

And if you are in doubt about what We have revealed (the Quran) to Our worshiper (Muhammad ), then produce a chapter like it, and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides God if you are truthful. And if you do not do it, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones. It has been prepared for disbelievers. And give good news (O Muhammad) to those who believe and do good deeds, that for them are gardens (Paradise) in which rivers flow.... (Quran, 2:23-25)

 

Ever since the Quran was revealed, fourteen centuries ago, no one has been able to produce a single chapter like the chapters of the Quran in their beauty, eloquence, splendor, wise legislation, true information, true prophecy, and other perfect attributes. Also, note that the smallest chapter in the Quran (Chapter 108) is only ten words, yet no one has ever been able to meet this challenge, then or today.1 Some of the disbelieving Arabs who were enemies of the Prophet Muhammad tried to meet this challenge to prove that Muhammad was not a true prophet, but they failed to do so.2 This failure was despite the fact that the Quran was revealed in their own language and dialect and that the Arabs at the time of Muhammad were a very eloquent people who used to compose beautiful and excellent poetry, still read and appreciated today.

 

 

 

The smallest chapter in the Holy Quran (Chapter 108) is only ten words, yet no one has ever been able to meet the challenge to produce one chapter like the chapters of the Holy Quran.[using large font size is not allowed]

 

10 words?

 

If the best writers back then could not even match TEN WORDS of the Quran,doesn't that show you something?

 

They could not match the elegance,comprehension and depth of just TEN WORDS.

 

The Quran is the word of Allah.

 

Whats your reasoning for that then?

 

I'm sure thats good enough proof to conclude the Quran is the word of Allah.

 

:sl:

Edited by Aaqib Ahmed

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Literature judgment is subjective, Aaqib Ahmed. Some people have read the Quran and concluded it is vague rhetoric. Some people have read it and been amazed by the contents. It is impossible to try and 'outdo' something in literature because there is no objective measurement in literature for what outdoing something actually entails.

 

Moreover, even if the Quran is a literary masterpiece - it does not entail that it is in fact from God.

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Peace be upon you,

 

Alright guys, my question for you is that have you taken anything, even a small amount into careful thought and contemplation from what the Muslim members have posted? Is it the case that nothing from what has been posted made even the slightest difference? I'd like you to carefully read the article posted by Yasnov. I'll quote a part of it:

 

He was not looking for a religion. Nevertheless, he started reading the Qur’an, but with a strong prejudice. “You cannot simply read the Qur’an, not if you take it seriously. You either have surrendered to it already or you fight it. It attacks tenaciously, directly, personally; it debates, criticizes, shames, and challenges. From the outset it draws the line of battle, and I was on the other side.†Thus he found himself in an interesting battle. “I was at a severe disadvantage, for it became clear that the Author knew me better than I knew myself.†It was as if the Author was reading his mind. Every night he would make up certain questions and objections, but would find the answer in his next readings as he continued his readings in the accepted order. “The Qur’an was always way ahead of my thinking; it was erasing barriers I had built years ago and was addressing my queries.†He fought vigorously with objections and questions, but it was apparent that he was loosing the battle. “I was being led, working my way into a corner that contained only one choice.â€

 

Have you read the Qur'an? If not, why not spare some time everyday or even once a week to read it from start to finish? It is your choice at the end of the day :sl: Words don't hurt, so I'd recommend you try and read it.

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:sl:/Peace

 

As said above try reading the Quran from a neutral view and then see what you think? :j:

 

Heres an easy to follow Quran translation in english you can read.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=29615"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=29615[/url]

 

Feel free to ask any questions you have on it in another thread.

 

A Non-Muslim friend of mine found it a really good read so I'm sure you will too. :no:

 

:sl:/Peace

Edited by Aaqib Ahmed

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:sl:

 

Hopefully this should open your eyes a bit!

 

The Great Challenge to Produce

One Chapter Like the Chapters

of the Holy Quran

 

God has said in the Quran:

And if you are in doubt about what We have revealed (the Quran) to Our worshiper (Muhammad ), then produce a chapter like it, and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides God if you are truthful. And if you do not do it, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones. It has been prepared for disbelievers. And give good news (O Muhammad) to those who believe and do good deeds, that for them are gardens (Paradise) in which rivers flow.... (Quran, 2:23-25)

 

Ever since the Quran was revealed, fourteen centuries ago, no one has been able to produce a single chapter like the chapters of the Quran in their beauty, eloquence, splendor, wise legislation, true information, true prophecy, and other perfect attributes. Also, note that the smallest chapter in the Quran (Chapter 108) is only ten words, yet no one has ever been able to meet this challenge, then or today.1 Some of the disbelieving Arabs who were enemies of the Prophet Muhammad tried to meet this challenge to prove that Muhammad was not a true prophet, but they failed to do so.2 This failure was despite the fact that the Quran was revealed in their own language and dialect and that the Arabs at the time of Muhammad were a very eloquent people who used to compose beautiful and excellent poetry, still read and appreciated today.

The smallest chapter in the Holy Quran (Chapter 108) is only ten words, yet no one has ever been able to meet the challenge to produce one chapter like the chapters of the Holy Quran.[using large font size is not allowed]

 

10 words?

 

If the best writers back then could not even match TEN WORDS of the Quran,doesn't that show you something?

 

They could not match the elegance,comprehension and depth of just TEN WORDS.

 

The Quran is the word of Allah.

 

Whats your reasoning for that then?

 

I'm sure thats good enough proof to conclude the Quran is the word of Allah.

 

:sl:

 

 

If it came to a vote for the most amazing litarature most non muslims would quite easily vote for Shakespeare over the author of the Koran. Most people wouldn't even put the Koran on the list as great literature. The Koran does not impress most of humanity, your claims are overblown and without basis and more to the point they are subjective. Quite simply the only people who think the Koran is perfect are Muslim that speaks volumes about your claims.

 

I have avoided contributing to this thread because at the beginning I said the kind of evidence that would convince me and most other atheists to become Muslim. No extraordinary evidence of this sort has been produced. There has been lots of declarations, subjective arguments, conjecture, circular logic, strawmen and the mantra of "it's true because it says it's true" rears it's ugly head over and over again.

 

But there is no evidence with teeth.

Edited by jamestaylor

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I have avoided contributing to this thread because at the beginning I said the kind of evidence that would convince me and most other atheists to become Muslim.

You said you would become a Muslim if there was information about computer, bombing of Japanese cities in Qur'an. Do you really mean it?

 

Wassalam,

Y

Edited by Yasnov

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Yes or no, jamestaylor?

 

Wassalam,

Y

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If you can show me something in the Koran that couldn't have been written by a 7th century Arab I will be suprised to say the least.

Hi James!

 

OK. Would you mind please reading the following booklet: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetirf(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/book3.zip"]The Qur'an and modern science[/url]

 

It shows many scientific facts discovered only a few years ago, that were mentioned in Glorious Qur'an in the 7th century.

 

 

Islam4ever

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Yes or no, jamestaylor?

 

Wassalam,

Y

 

You have extrodinary and unambiguous predictions of this sort in the Koran? Wow I'm amazed. Please produce them.

Edited by jamestaylor

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Hi James!

 

OK. Would you mind please reading the following booklet: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetirf(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/book3.zip"]The Qur'an and modern science[/url]

 

It shows many scientific facts discovered only a few years ago, that were mentioned in Glorious Qur'an in the 7th century.

Islam4ever

 

I know all of these claims, most are just later versions of Greek and Persian science some are verses that are so nebulous that you could twist them to mean anything and you are conveniantly forgeting that the Koran states that the sun sets in a muddy pool and that mountains are like tent pegs. So the Koran is right when it takes Greek science and improves on it but when modern geology says that mountains form when tectonic plates colide are they wrong and is the Koran right did Allah place mountains there to peg the surface of earth in place?

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You have extrodinary and unambiguous predictions of this sort in the Koran? Wow I'm amazed. Please produce them.

So, if there was information about computer, bombing of Japanese cities in Qur'an, then you'll believe that God exists?

 

Wassalam,

Y

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So basically, all I read from a majority of the non-Muslims is, "Islam is wrong because my opinions are different from it and although I've never studied the Qur'an, I've the authority to make judgements about it". Did I get everything right?

 

Salam.

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So, if there was information about computer, bombing of Japanese cities in Qur'an, then you'll believe that God exists?

 

Wassalam,

Y

 

I would start to take the Koran more seriously as more than just a book and I would look at the rest of the data. No I would not fall to my knees and blindly believe in all of the claims of Islam that would be silly but I would study Islam with a renewed respect and I would give credence to the idea that Islam could be true.

 

Why haven't you revealed this extraordinary, unambiguous evidence?

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So basically, all I read from a majority of the non-Muslims is, "Islam is wrong because my opinions are different from it and although I've never studied the Qur'an, I've the authority to make judgements about it". Did I get everything right?

 

Salam.

 

No you are wrong not one non muslim has said that.

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James,

 

 

I know all of these claims, most are just later versions of Greek and Persian science

Did you carefully read the booklet I mentioned? Most of its scientific facts were discovered in the 20th century and have nothing to do with the Greek or Persian science!!!

 

 

 

forgeting that the Koran states that the sun sets in a muddy pool and that mountains are like tent pegs

Would you mind showing me the exact reference (Chapter and Verse) where it is mentioned in the Glorious Qur'an?

 

 

 

but when modern geology says that mountains form when tectonic plates colide are they wrong and is the Koran right did Allah place mountains there to peg the surface of earth in place?

Have a look at this video: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetyoutube(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/watch?v=zQu7FznVOvI"]The Qur'an and modern Geology[/url]

 

 

Islam4ever

Edited by Islam Forever

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I would start to take the Koran more seriously as more than just a book and I would look at the rest of the data. No I would not fall to my knees and blindly believe in all of the claims of Islam that would be silly but I would study Islam with a renewed respect and I would give credence to the idea that Islam could be true.
Well, we can talk about Islam and Qur'an later. Now, can you please list three best evidence that you would like to see so that youll certainly believe that God really exists?

 

Why haven't you revealed this extraordinary, unambiguous evidence?

Did I promise you that?

 

Wassalam,

Y

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So, if there was information about computer, bombing of Japanese cities in Qur'an, then you'll believe that God exists?

 

Wassalam,

Y

I hope the information about computers and Japanese cities being bombed in the Qur'an isn't so vague it could be one of Nostradamus's predictions!

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I hope the information about computers and Japanese cities being bombed in the Qur'an isn't so vague it could be one of Nostradamus's predictions!

So, if Qur'an did clearly mention about computers and the bombing of Japanese cities, then you will believe that God does exists, Mr. Danger?

 

Wassalam,

Y

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So basically, all I read from a majority of the non-Muslims is, "Islam is wrong because my opinions are different from it and although I've never studied the Qur'an, I've the authority to make judgements about it". Did I get everything right?

Opinion defines belief. My belief that there is no God invalidates Islam to me. What exactly are you expecting?

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